The ID.2all concept is an electric VW $25.000(topgear.com)
topgear.com
The ID.2all concept is an electric VW $25.000
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/surprise-id2all-concept-electric-vw-thats-smaller-id3
38 comments
The Y has a gigantic boot, 970l - over double this. Somewhat apples and oranges comparison.
Not throwing shade on the ID.2 though ! it looks great (apart from the weird shaped steering wheel and massive touchscreen). And typical hatchback cargo space for this price and range is great.
Not throwing shade on the ID.2 though ! it looks great (apart from the weird shaped steering wheel and massive touchscreen). And typical hatchback cargo space for this price and range is great.
The price of the Y is also "over double this"
> If this concept turns into reality, it's gonna be almost a better (or actually better, depending on your preferences) car than the model y standard range for half the price!
This is magical thinking. Kudos to Volkswagen PR folks what can I say, mission accomplished.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Nils (2011)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Golf_Mk7#e-Golf (2013)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_ID._Buzz (2017)
Are you new to car concept PR shenanigans?
The limiting factor is batteries and being able to produce these things at scale. What Tesla is doing with its gigafactories and approach to batteries is something all the legacy car companies need to be doing and they need to get on that yesterday.
2024/5 is around the time Tesla will have a new range of cars and price drops and I can say this not because of blind optimism in Elon but because the physics and economics are starting to line up to enable that.
For an in-depth analysis take a look at Munro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fe548XvavY
tl;dr - the right way to build electric cars:
In-house electronics. In-house batteries. In-house motors. 48v wiring. Gigacastings. Gigafactories. Vertical integration.
VW, Toyota, 'etc all have engineers screaming for over a decade about all these things but other than PR fluff they are just not allowed to tackle the problem. Weird, but here we are.
This is magical thinking. Kudos to Volkswagen PR folks what can I say, mission accomplished.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Nils (2011)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Golf_Mk7#e-Golf (2013)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_ID._Buzz (2017)
Are you new to car concept PR shenanigans?
The limiting factor is batteries and being able to produce these things at scale. What Tesla is doing with its gigafactories and approach to batteries is something all the legacy car companies need to be doing and they need to get on that yesterday.
2024/5 is around the time Tesla will have a new range of cars and price drops and I can say this not because of blind optimism in Elon but because the physics and economics are starting to line up to enable that.
For an in-depth analysis take a look at Munro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fe548XvavY
tl;dr - the right way to build electric cars:
In-house electronics. In-house batteries. In-house motors. 48v wiring. Gigacastings. Gigafactories. Vertical integration.
VW, Toyota, 'etc all have engineers screaming for over a decade about all these things but other than PR fluff they are just not allowed to tackle the problem. Weird, but here we are.
VW has announced this week that they're spending $200B on Gigafactories etc.
https://electrek.co/2023/03/14/vw-doubles-down-ev-strategy-w...
https://electrek.co/2023/03/14/vw-doubles-down-ev-strategy-w...
Awesome, best of luck to them, this is the way.
VW has its own battery factory in Spain: https://youtu.be/3TaNKoYLGsQ @11:16 minute mark
> In-house electronics.
Yes and: Software stack.
(Sandy) Munro has mentioned this a few times.
I struggle to imagine other vehicle mfgs successfully making their own software.
My prediction is that one or more mfgs will adopt Apple's stack. Either thru partnership or licensing. Apple has cash to burn, so I think partnership, eg with Stellantis.
Then they'd also get access to Apple's chips.
As you surely know, legacy cars have dozens of electronic control units (ECUs), whereas Tesla has just a few chips/boards. Those ECUs use bespoke chips. And their supply was recently disrupted. Huge bummer.
Two birds, one stone.
Yes and: Software stack.
(Sandy) Munro has mentioned this a few times.
I struggle to imagine other vehicle mfgs successfully making their own software.
My prediction is that one or more mfgs will adopt Apple's stack. Either thru partnership or licensing. Apple has cash to burn, so I think partnership, eg with Stellantis.
Then they'd also get access to Apple's chips.
As you surely know, legacy cars have dozens of electronic control units (ECUs), whereas Tesla has just a few chips/boards. Those ECUs use bespoke chips. And their supply was recently disrupted. Huge bummer.
Two birds, one stone.
Tesla software kind of sucks?
They can't fix their auto wipers. Phantom braking is still a thing. FSD is a scam.
They can't fix their auto wipers. Phantom braking is still a thing. FSD is a scam.
Which OEM has the best software?
(I don't have a dog in this fight.)
(I don't have a dog in this fight.)
> Then they'd also get access to Apple's chips.
Heh, no. Apple has absolutely no interest in becoming a tier 3 OEM supplier in the car industry and don't make those sort of chips to begin with. They are happy to cement their ecosystem by helping car makers integrate it into the infotainment screens but that is a far cry from what Tesla is doing.
Heh, no. Apple has absolutely no interest in becoming a tier 3 OEM supplier in the car industry and don't make those sort of chips to begin with. They are happy to cement their ecosystem by helping car makers integrate it into the infotainment screens but that is a far cry from what Tesla is doing.
PS- What tier is Apple for supplying CarPlay for 100s of makes and models, and expanding.
Nevermind.
Intel & NVIDIA are considered Tier 2. QNX-Blackberry sells to both OEMs and Tier 1.
Rebutting my speculation by suggesting Apple would be a lowly Tier 3. While they're already Tier 1 and seriously considering being an OEM.
You're funny.
Intel & NVIDIA are considered Tier 2. QNX-Blackberry sells to both OEMs and Tier 1.
Rebutting my speculation by suggesting Apple would be a lowly Tier 3. While they're already Tier 1 and seriously considering being an OEM.
You're funny.
But they're fine contracting w/ Stellantis (or equiv) to make their cars.
A distinction without a difference.
A distinction without a difference.
If it’s a 5-seater, it needs to be 1.9 to 2 meters wide, not 1.8.
I know, I know, automakers would much rather sell full-size pickups and three-row crossovers than make a 5-seater that actually seats 5 in reasonable comfort.
I know, I know, automakers would much rather sell full-size pickups and three-row crossovers than make a 5-seater that actually seats 5 in reasonable comfort.
It's just 4+1 (emergency) seater. I wish every car manufacturer keep making < 1.8m cars. Nowadays every cars become wider.
A Porsche 911 has 4 seatbelts, but nobody calls it a 4-seater.
When manufacturers call their cars 5-seaters but they're not really meant to regularly carry 5 people, buyers lose trust in that designation. And then buy bigger vehicles to compensate.
This is great for the automaker, but not for you, your safety, or the planet.
When manufacturers call their cars 5-seaters but they're not really meant to regularly carry 5 people, buyers lose trust in that designation. And then buy bigger vehicles to compensate.
This is great for the automaker, but not for you, your safety, or the planet.
Anyway, can't you just take your family for a test drive to confirm the seating arrangements?
I only want a 4-seater, I don't need a full 5-seater. Manufacturers can add emergency seat to 4-seater at minimal cost. What's the problem for me and the planet? I'm saying that I want a small (efficient) cars.
I only want a 4-seater, I don't need a full 5-seater. Manufacturers can add emergency seat to 4-seater at minimal cost. What's the problem for me and the planet? I'm saying that I want a small (efficient) cars.
Most people in the market looking for >4 seaters are looking for vehicles to carry kids. This is a 5 seater if at least one is a kid.
Nice, makes my VW E-up look a bit outdated, but I bet it won't be as light (1160kg) or as efficient (~12Kwh/100km).
Expected in 2025, interesting they announce the price so far ahead, especially given the current inflation level.
Expected in 2025, interesting they announce the price so far ahead, especially given the current inflation level.
I hope it’s released in the US, not just Europe.
Probably Europe only: https://youtu.be/3TaNKoYLGsQ @11 minutes mark.
Suposadly it's "too small".
Suposadly it's "too small".
This American is sick of how big everything has become. Give me a smaller phone and a smaller car.
I have the ID.4 and besides the software it is a fantastic car. We also have a Golf R and would love to have the same car but all electric. I would be all over the ID.2 if it reaches the US.
I so desperately want an electric golf R or GTI.
I’ll recycle my comment from the DeLorean a few days ago…
They lost me at the weird shaped steering wheel and massive touchscreen.
They lost me at the weird shaped steering wheel and massive touchscreen.
2025. Thanks we will let you know.
thats not a good price. Where is the innovation? Price, range, features, looks?
Uhhh…25K for 280 miles? Even the Bolt nor leaf can beat that. How is that not a good price?
I have doubts their actual car will be released anywhere near that price/range ratio. If you read the article carefully they state 'starting at' 22k EU, and 'aiming for' 280 mi range (not specified if this is EPA or WLTP... which would basically be the difference between a reasonable 280mi, and something closer to ~190).
They, seemingly, didn't read the article.
What electric cars with comparable range have a better price?
The only competitor I can think of is the new electric Mini, with a range of more than 280miles, but it's a two door hatchback and the cost is expected to be north of $30,000
22k pounds for 450km of range, impressive exterior and even better interior with an amazingly looking center console screen and hud.
If this concept turns into reality, it's gonna be almost a better (or actually better, depending on your preferences) car than the model y standard range for half the price!