Show HN: I built my first Cyberdeck(github.com)
github.com
Show HN: I built my first Cyberdeck
https://github.com/g1sbi/qaz-cyberdeck
69 comments
It's just a thing. As a US qwerty layout user I've had to use JP while living in Japan. Got into mechanical keyboards and have used a 60% HHKB, 40% Vortex Core (chords), and now a fully programmable ZSA Moonlander of which no one but me could actually type a large set of special characters on.
Then mix in the emacs, vim, kakoune obsession and, well, fluidity in key memorization is king.
Have tinkered with the dvorak layout or similar but can't really commit because that is actually the one thing where the effort curve takes too long to pay off for me.
I turn 44 this month FWIW.
Then mix in the emacs, vim, kakoune obsession and, well, fluidity in key memorization is king.
Have tinkered with the dvorak layout or similar but can't really commit because that is actually the one thing where the effort curve takes too long to pay off for me.
I turn 44 this month FWIW.
Impressive evolutionary history for your various keyboard and keyboard-focused tool preferences! Would like to know more.
Curious to know if you have any thoughts about the Eucalyn layout. It's a layout focused on Japanese, Vim, and Dvorak: https://eucalyn.hatenadiary.jp/entry/about-eucalyn-layout
Shameless plug, this is my Dvorak/Vim focused layout Small Board for Dvorak (SB4DV): https://github.com/1MachineElf/qmk_firmware/tree/_sb4dv/keyb...
Curious to know if you have any thoughts about the Eucalyn layout. It's a layout focused on Japanese, Vim, and Dvorak: https://eucalyn.hatenadiary.jp/entry/about-eucalyn-layout
Shameless plug, this is my Dvorak/Vim focused layout Small Board for Dvorak (SB4DV): https://github.com/1MachineElf/qmk_firmware/tree/_sb4dv/keyb...
Remember how fast people got at texting on feature phones? It's like that, but faster. You just have to train at it; like a stenographer's keyboard.
Anyone who types in a language that uses a lot of non-keyboard characters (think accents, etc) is already used to some of it.
Anyone who types in a language that uses a lot of non-keyboard characters (think accents, etc) is already used to some of it.
Sounds dumb, but I miss the days of being able to reply to a text without actually pulling my phone out of my pocket. Usually it was something to the effect of a predictive "one sec" or slightly risky "yup" if I thought I already knew how they'd respond.
Thank you for confirming that we didn't type that slow back then. I felt like I was faster on physical keyboards.
Thank you for confirming that we didn't type that slow back then. I felt like I was faster on physical keyboards.
The ergo community loves their 40% keyboards. The reasoning is that your fingers can not reach large number of keys anyways without moving the whole hand, and by eliminating the hand/wrist movement you can be more ergonomic even if it leads to more keypresses.
Same thinking can be applied to speed too, hand repositioning and finger-stretching are not fast things to do, so concentrating functionality near home positions allows you to do the keypresses very fast which trades off the number of keypresses.
This all said, I personally haven't used such keyboards, this is more of second hand impressions
Same thinking can be applied to speed too, hand repositioning and finger-stretching are not fast things to do, so concentrating functionality near home positions allows you to do the keypresses very fast which trades off the number of keypresses.
This all said, I personally haven't used such keyboards, this is more of second hand impressions
What are you basing this on? Every serious ergo keyboard I've seen is a split keyboard.
I'm just grouping in general 34-48ish key keyboards into "40%" category regardless if they are split or not or something in between. So popular designs such as Corne falls in there.
I thought the ergo community loved their split, ortho, big ass keyboards?
I just bought an used Kinesis (the simple one though), love to see if it improves my wrist pain.
I see lot of love for Corne (and similar) keyboards, and 3.6k GH stars attest to that: https://github.com/foostan/crkbd
Actually this one is really cleaver. The keys you see are actually a full QWERTY in the normal layout so no memorizing chords for typing English. [Shift] is just long-pressing Z so you are not completely confounding your muscle memory.
Numbers and arrows being behind a fn key seems a good trade off for the space saved. So really only `[];',/` are become chords to match `{}:@<>?` on a full keyboard.
> man I just don't get how someone could just unlearn the muscle memory of a normal keyboard layout
Honestly - this is the draw to unusual layouts to me. It's significantly helped RSI for typing too much. I don't need 'ultimate speed' really as much as comfort and physically being able to type.
It's medical! At least that's what i tell my wife (... and myself) when the credit card bill comes in.
Honestly - this is the draw to unusual layouts to me. It's significantly helped RSI for typing too much. I don't need 'ultimate speed' really as much as comfort and physically being able to type.
It's medical! At least that's what i tell my wife (... and myself) when the credit card bill comes in.
I totally see where you’re coming from, and yes, the first few days on it were nightmarish, but I eventually got good on it. I code as fast as I do on my 65%, and not having to ever move your hands away from the main position is actually super comfortable! Chords and tap dancing definitely require a lot of muscle memory, but they are game changers.
Please add attribution to the cyberpunk image you are using on your github. That artist is Deathburger. https://citadel9.com/
I tried to get into more ergonomic layouts several times over my lifespan ... I got somewhat proficient in Dvorak and later in Neo2, still have them on "hot dial".
While plain writing was fine with both layouts, what really made them unappealing to me is that I just could not use Vim anymore. A lot of working with Vim is blasting through chains of single button presses that have become second nature to me over the decades. With alternative layouts my text editing just ground to a crawl.
While plain writing was fine with both layouts, what really made them unappealing to me is that I just could not use Vim anymore. A lot of working with Vim is blasting through chains of single button presses that have become second nature to me over the decades. With alternative layouts my text editing just ground to a crawl.
i guess the secret is learning blind typing and always use the same layout like querty/dvorak/colemak
The world needs more slabtops. They're my favourite form-factor of all time for writing anything creative. Feels like a typewriter.
What are some others?
The classic TRS-80 Model 100, Cambridge Z88, QuickPad Pro, AlphaSmart Dana. There's a bunch more too. I'm somewhat of an enthusiast for this form-factor, this and typewriters are a hobby for the missus and I.
Douglas Adams used a Cambridge Z88 for writing! Prior to laptop batteries becoming decent once swappable batteries became less common, serious journos frequently used to turn to the slabtop even a decade ago.
There's something very human and intimate in the usage of it, despite modern clamshells obviously having better viewing angles and giving you a better posture. They feel very natural and intuitive, in the same way a pen and paper does.
The older ones are also frequently very easy to read in the sunshine, and the batteries can last a long time.
The AlphaSmart Neo 2 gets 700h of battery life, but is more of a word processor with extras like applets.
Also huge nerds for ThinkPads, but that's another, non-slabtop story.
Douglas Adams used a Cambridge Z88 for writing! Prior to laptop batteries becoming decent once swappable batteries became less common, serious journos frequently used to turn to the slabtop even a decade ago.
There's something very human and intimate in the usage of it, despite modern clamshells obviously having better viewing angles and giving you a better posture. They feel very natural and intuitive, in the same way a pen and paper does.
The older ones are also frequently very easy to read in the sunshine, and the batteries can last a long time.
The AlphaSmart Neo 2 gets 700h of battery life, but is more of a word processor with extras like applets.
Also huge nerds for ThinkPads, but that's another, non-slabtop story.
Are there any slabtop’s still being made? All of those that you listed are discontinued.
I do like the idea of having a very small, limited OS. I’ve often thought I’d love an updated Psion 5. With modern batteries and displays, you should be able to get months out of a set of batteries or battery charge.
I do like the idea of having a very small, limited OS. I’ve often thought I’d love an updated Psion 5. With modern batteries and displays, you should be able to get months out of a set of batteries or battery charge.
Clockwork makes several
https://www.clockworkpi.com/shop
https://www.abortretry.fail/p/review-of-the-clockwork-pi-dev...
R-01 is particular interesting for having a RISC-V processor
https://www.clockworkpi.com/shop
https://www.abortretry.fail/p/review-of-the-clockwork-pi-dev...
R-01 is particular interesting for having a RISC-V processor
I ordered the CM4 Lite uConsole kit almost immediately after opening that first link.
That's a great price for a 4GB RAM CM4 given what they currently sell for on Amazon/eBay.
I currently own an A06 DevTerm but have been unsatisfied with it. Clockwork OS feels lacking, I wish there was a stand for it, and the keyboard isn't great. The uConsole CM4 can theoretically run Raspbian, has a built-in stand, and features a more compact keyboard. Better overall IMO.
If I end up liking it then I will go for the RISC-V option. Of the available RISC-V options I know of, it appears to be one of the best.
That's a great price for a 4GB RAM CM4 given what they currently sell for on Amazon/eBay.
I currently own an A06 DevTerm but have been unsatisfied with it. Clockwork OS feels lacking, I wish there was a stand for it, and the keyboard isn't great. The uConsole CM4 can theoretically run Raspbian, has a built-in stand, and features a more compact keyboard. Better overall IMO.
If I end up liking it then I will go for the RISC-V option. Of the available RISC-V options I know of, it appears to be one of the best.
I was so sold on the Clockwork stuff until I realized how small it is. They're more of a handheld thumb board!
If they scaled it up, I'd love one, especially a RISC-V SKU.
If they scaled it up, I'd love one, especially a RISC-V SKU.
Thanks for linking the review.
That machine sounds great except the battery life. 6 hours? Why can’t it be 600 or even 6000 hours? The Model 100 came out 40 years ago and could go 20 hours on smaller batteries!
That machine sounds great except the battery life. 6 hours? Why can’t it be 600 or even 6000 hours? The Model 100 came out 40 years ago and could go 20 hours on smaller batteries!
I suspect that display is one of the biggest bottlenecks if attempting to build a more power-optimized device.
There are still some low-power cyberdecks around, like https://hackaday.io/project/184340-potatop
There are still some low-power cyberdecks around, like https://hackaday.io/project/184340-potatop
There was a demo of a Linux OS that simply boots to vim and that’s the only thing you could do on that machine. It would be perfect for this use case.
Linux is pretty heavy compared to something like EPOC that the Psion used. That machine would run 20 hours on a pair of AA batteries.
We’ve come a long way since then. Surely a month on a pair of AA batteries should be possible?
We’ve come a long way since then. Surely a month on a pair of AA batteries should be possible?
The READY Model 100 is the most recent commercial one to my knowledge, that was crowdfunded initially and then sold via their online store, but is currently unavailable to buy further units of.
There's other things like the Freewrite if you just want a word processor, but I'd recommend the much cheaper (albeit discontinued) AlphaSmart Neo 2 over that, especially for the battery life.
Everything else these days is largely hobbyist DIY projects who occasionally make a PCB or chassis/case available.
I'd love for the segment to grow again. It's admittedly niche, so that's quite unlikely.
Loved and love Psion!
There's other things like the Freewrite if you just want a word processor, but I'd recommend the much cheaper (albeit discontinued) AlphaSmart Neo 2 over that, especially for the battery life.
Everything else these days is largely hobbyist DIY projects who occasionally make a PCB or chassis/case available.
I'd love for the segment to grow again. It's admittedly niche, so that's quite unlikely.
Loved and love Psion!
I’ve raved about the Model 100 before. Even with a 40 column screen it was perfectly usable for messaging on remote systems.
One of the clever things it had was two holes in the back. They were (by design or happenstance) perfectly sized for regular pencils. You cut the pencils to your desired length, shove them in the holes and use the erasers for rubber feet. Perfect to get the angle just right.
M100 had one of the best keyboards I ever used.
And to be fair, the 40 column display is much more reasonable for this form factor. 80 columns gets pretty small, pretty fast. Nice thing about text based web pages and word processing documents is that they wrap just fine to 40 characters.
One of the clever things it had was two holes in the back. They were (by design or happenstance) perfectly sized for regular pencils. You cut the pencils to your desired length, shove them in the holes and use the erasers for rubber feet. Perfect to get the angle just right.
M100 had one of the best keyboards I ever used.
And to be fair, the 40 column display is much more reasonable for this form factor. 80 columns gets pretty small, pretty fast. Nice thing about text based web pages and word processing documents is that they wrap just fine to 40 characters.
> There's something very human and intimate in the usage of it, despite modern clamshells obviously having better viewing angles and giving you a better posture. They feel very natural and intuitive, in the same way a pen and paper does.
There's also something more social about it, if you're using it to take notes while around other people. A screen pointed towards you is a private space; a screen visible to the room is more public (and less prone to distraction as a result because it's obvious to those around you if you're fooling around).
I use a TRS-80 Model 100 as a notetaking device for that reason. (Well, also because it's nearly incapable of doing anything that could distract me on the go!)
There's also something more social about it, if you're using it to take notes while around other people. A screen pointed towards you is a private space; a screen visible to the room is more public (and less prone to distraction as a result because it's obvious to those around you if you're fooling around).
I use a TRS-80 Model 100 as a notetaking device for that reason. (Well, also because it's nearly incapable of doing anything that could distract me on the go!)
Eloquent! Had never thought about that before, but yes, you're absolutely right.
Epson HX-20. Always wanted one as a kid when I saw the ad in Byte magazine. So cool, with the integrated paper-tape printer.
HX-20 is still appealing! Never seen one in the flesh though.
Please run your graphics through a web-friendly compression format before sticking them inline auto-loaded @ the provided url.
Those image file sizes are bonkers for what I'm trying to look at.
Those image file sizes are bonkers for what I'm trying to look at.
https://hackaday.com/2022/10/22/2022-cyberdeck-contest-qaz-p...
I do wish there were more slabtops
I do wish there were more slabtops
This is pretty neat. As someone who frequently uses an iPad mini with a foldable Bluetooth keyboard (and who is typing this on the on-screen one right now), I like the idea of having a little UNIX machine on the go, and I like the idea of QAZ (I have been looking at QMK and other custom keyboard firmwares for a while).
Right now I use a-Shell and iSH to have surprisingly powerful CLI sandboxes in iOS, but having a normal userland would be great.
Curious about weight and (metric) dimensions, though. Thickness (or lack thereof) is one of the advantages of my current setup.
Right now I use a-Shell and iSH to have surprisingly powerful CLI sandboxes in iOS, but having a normal userland would be great.
Curious about weight and (metric) dimensions, though. Thickness (or lack thereof) is one of the advantages of my current setup.
Looks great, for the SBC, a nvidia jetson based might also be a great option, something like jetson nano/NX as they have the same power delivery.
Didn't know they existed, they look great! I'll consider them for the next one, which is probably gonna be beefier.
They are great as they have cuda cores etc., the only downside is you have to use their ubuntu image to utilize all the features as the drivers are proprietary, you can install other distributions but you will lose that functionality.
If you are looking for an -almost- as powerful SBC (with m.2 support as I see you have it in the original design), give a look at Rock5-B (1), I didn’t test it personally unlike nVidia ones, but it seems it has a great specs, as you might also struggle to secure jetson ones sometimes due to stocks being sold out.
(1) https://ameridroid.com/collections/rock5-model-b/products/ro...
If you are looking for an -almost- as powerful SBC (with m.2 support as I see you have it in the original design), give a look at Rock5-B (1), I didn’t test it personally unlike nVidia ones, but it seems it has a great specs, as you might also struggle to secure jetson ones sometimes due to stocks being sold out.
(1) https://ameridroid.com/collections/rock5-model-b/products/ro...
There's a yocto layer for Jetson - which gives you highly customizable OS. Yocto does have steep learning curve, so that's a showstopper.
I remember I tried Yocto, indeed it’s customizable, but when I tested it, its performance wasn’t on par with the stock one, specifically with gstreamer and vp9 encoding/decoding. Maybe it’s changed now though, worth the try OP.
Heh - I can't resist throwing a mention in for my favorite here too (1). Available, cheap, x86 based... I love them :-) I have 3-4 of the H2 models, and they have only gotten better !
1. https://ameridroid.com/products/odroid-h3
1. https://ameridroid.com/products/odroid-h3
I love the look, but can someone explain to me what sort of things you would do with a computer of this form factor? Why do people keep building them? Is is just looks? Or is there something they're good at.
To be clear, I'm not looking for something you can't do already (your phone does everything), but something that a cyberdeck computer would _excel_ at.
To be clear, I'm not looking for something you can't do already (your phone does everything), but something that a cyberdeck computer would _excel_ at.
It's a cheap small device that's extremely portable. When I was doing more random tech support things, I'd probably try to keep one in the backpack because it's relatively tiny. It can handle boot media, pxe, testing random hardware, connecting to networks you need, etc. It would come useful when I don't have a laptop / didn't expect to need to do work, but it turns out I'd really like my laptop right now. At that size, I'd just never take it out / leave behind.
Although with the new, more powerful phones I could also carry a small USB dock instead. I've done random emergency work on N900 before.
Although with the new, more powerful phones I could also carry a small USB dock instead. I've done random emergency work on N900 before.
This comes up in response to this hobby frequently, and the answer is pretty simple- it does whatever you want. There are pretty much an endless variety of cyberdecks, and some are more useful that others. Even the ones that are for different aesthetics go on to inspire specific builds.
I think you're asking the question in good faith, but it's a bit like looking at an Arduino, Raspberry Pi 2040, or Raspberry Pi 4B and asking, "what can these do that an Intel laptop can't do better?"
I think you're asking the question in good faith, but it's a bit like looking at an Arduino, Raspberry Pi 2040, or Raspberry Pi 4B and asking, "what can these do that an Intel laptop can't do better?"
I too would like to know what use these things have?
There's a whole gang of cyberdeck builders over at the cyberdeck.cafe Discord if anyone is interested in the hobby! The original creator of this design is a regular there and we're always willing to help newcomers.
Lol, well there goes 60mb of mobile data for some people...
This was very good-looking, and a good write-up!
I don't know the author's background in (practical) electronics work, but as an embedded developer and long-time hobbyist: obviously there are solutions for de-soldering things that don't involve dremeling them to atomic dust. I'm just saying.
I don't know the author's background in (practical) electronics work, but as an embedded developer and long-time hobbyist: obviously there are solutions for de-soldering things that don't involve dremeling them to atomic dust. I'm just saying.
Awesome build. However my first reaction was "I have RSI just looking at it"
This looks great! Any more details on the software and settings you used? Looks like it would be a perfect fit for my trusty old VAIO P.
i want not this but a device between scientific calculator and smartphone with 720/480 display one framework like expendable port, qwerty keyboard may be some functions of flipper zero
I would encourage you to either take a look at the cyberdeck.cafe website or drop into the Discord server- you may be surprised how many different builds there are, and you probably would find the original designer pretty happy to share design files or suggestions.
Define: cyberdeck
portable computer (commonly: that is not a laptop), home-built or heavily customized. Name is a reference to the "decks" of early cyberpunk literature, which are used to access cyberspace.
I mean I get by reading a bit from the hackaday post that there are combos or 'chords' and so I guess you are meant to memorize these chord claw combinations for things, and yes I see the videos of people claiming it can be fast etc etc but....
man I just don't get how someone could just unlearn the muscle memory of a normal keyboard layout. I had a partner with a Spanish layout keyboard macbook where a just a few keys are mixed around compared to ANSI and even after sitting with it many times it was still nearly un-useable for me... and that was just a few keys swapped around!
I have noticed all the people building and using these reduced-key-count keyboards on youtube are all very young people. So maybe it has something to do with still having a pliable brain and not having decades of muscle memory to get past.