Apple subreddit reopens after moderation team threatened with removal(appleinsider.com)
appleinsider.com
Apple subreddit reopens after moderation team threatened with removal
https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/06/16/apple-subreddit-reopens-after-entire-moderation-team-was-threatened-with-removal
68 comments
It would make sense if the mods of /r/apple are Apple employees who do their job on company time. Being replaced as mods would be damaging to their career and there is a possibility that people will be put in charge that Apple can't control. I expect similar behavior from any brand subreddits.
> As always, Reddit moderators always end up being blatantly and obviously motivated by anything but their own community. Users not having access to their community is fine, as long as the mods don't lose their petty fiefdom I guess.
Context for others: There are powermods who "moderate" hundreds of subreddits. This is not an exaggeration. Hundreds.
When questioned, they invariably say that they "just watch the incoming queue" or something, and the other mods "do all the work". While likely true in the literal sense (again, hundreds), such answers of course completely evade of the question.
Remember, "Most of What You Read on the Internet is Written by Insane People" <https://np.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/9rvroo/most_...>. This also applies to powermods, assuming they're not being paid on the side to push some ideology.
Basically, losers who crave ruling a (as you said) petty fiefdom.
Bonus: The classic post in which a mod thinks what he does is worth $175K a year <https://np.reddit.com/r/35orquit/comments/qw1v3e/what_do_peo...>. Be sure to read to the end, where he explains how he "saves lives".
Context for others: There are powermods who "moderate" hundreds of subreddits. This is not an exaggeration. Hundreds.
When questioned, they invariably say that they "just watch the incoming queue" or something, and the other mods "do all the work". While likely true in the literal sense (again, hundreds), such answers of course completely evade of the question.
Remember, "Most of What You Read on the Internet is Written by Insane People" <https://np.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/9rvroo/most_...>. This also applies to powermods, assuming they're not being paid on the side to push some ideology.
Basically, losers who crave ruling a (as you said) petty fiefdom.
Bonus: The classic post in which a mod thinks what he does is worth $175K a year <https://np.reddit.com/r/35orquit/comments/qw1v3e/what_do_peo...>. Be sure to read to the end, where he explains how he "saves lives".
Booo scabs and traitors
What’s the digital equivalent of a giant inflatable rat?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflatable_rat
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflatable_rat
Yeah, so shameful and sad, people without integrity and solidarity in standing for some basic rights
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Did you read the comments from the actual Apple subreddit community? It's pretty clear that they think the blackout is some bullshit power hungry mod thing that they are happy to see end.
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> "If a moderator team unanimously decides to stop moderating, we will invite new, active moderators to keep these spaces open and accessible to users,"
This is where things have escalated to.
This is where things have escalated to.
Yeah, it's kind of crazy how these mods just think they own the subreddits. Like, fuck the communities, I'm upset and I'm going to take my toys home.
To be honest, I'd love for reddit to enhance a community's ability to control it's subreddit without needing to cede full control to some power hungry basement dweller.
To be honest, I'd love for reddit to enhance a community's ability to control it's subreddit without needing to cede full control to some power hungry basement dweller.
Quote from article: Reddit CEO Steve Huffman… is apparently unaware that Reddit's success is because of the posts by the users that use the service in all of its forms
If Reddit starts losing popularity due to this incident (and that is not guaranteed by far) this is going to be the money quote which sums up the entire situation. An unaware CEO unable to understand his own product nor users.
With that said I think there is a strong chance that this will end up being a tempest in a teapot - there doesn’t seem to be any immediately obvious damage to the Reddit brand because of the blackout.
If Reddit starts losing popularity due to this incident (and that is not guaranteed by far) this is going to be the money quote which sums up the entire situation. An unaware CEO unable to understand his own product nor users.
With that said I think there is a strong chance that this will end up being a tempest in a teapot - there doesn’t seem to be any immediately obvious damage to the Reddit brand because of the blackout.
This is the third wave of gentrification on reddit. This has all happened before including reddit kicking off/out mods that closed their subreddits in protest. I know because it happened to me in wave 2.
For all the people that leave there are plenty of Facebook refugees trickling in at the same rate. Reddit doesn't want it's power users, it wants Facebook/etc's users and cares nothing for it's original userbase (or culture, as shown by the post-VC capital emphasis on posting to /u/ user profiles instead of subreddits).
For all the people that leave there are plenty of Facebook refugees trickling in at the same rate. Reddit doesn't want it's power users, it wants Facebook/etc's users and cares nothing for it's original userbase (or culture, as shown by the post-VC capital emphasis on posting to /u/ user profiles instead of subreddits).
> "Reddit doesn't want it's power users"
I keep hearing people say this, but why would that be?
By "power users" it seems like people are broadly referring to people who submit lots of original content-heavy posts and comments. Why would Reddit not want that?
I keep hearing people say this, but why would that be?
By "power users" it seems like people are broadly referring to people who submit lots of original content-heavy posts and comments. Why would Reddit not want that?
I have a pet conspiracy theory that the leadership there thinks this may rid them of "troublemakers". Huffman's seemingly ludicrous hardcore stance against third party Apps and mods who disagree with him would seem to reinforce this.
Basically, they're chasing away the folks who are most likely to cause a ruckus when Reddit inevitably tries to go IPO or otherwise make a profit. Everyone is saying this is in prep for their IPO, but I agree with Huffman's analysis that now is a really shitty time to be pondering an IPO. My guess is he has a checklist of items he needs to accomplish on the site handed to him by leadership to make everything look good for an IPO. He may have realized a lot of these would not go well with the community - this isn't his first rodeo with this stuff - so he applied draconian measures, hardened his heart against the mods and app devs who made the site what it is, and is hoping and praying there will be something left when the smoke clears. And there will be, especially as they force subreddits back into the light and encouraging mods to turn on each other. Basically, this is a loyalty test, and all of the disloyal people are being forced out. The loyal people who will pretty much go with anything Reddit leadership wants will be all that's left, and they're banking that will be enough. Add the influx of Facebook and Twitter refugees who likely see all of this as just nerd posturing, and, yeah, Reddit will likely survive and go IPO.
But it will not be Reddit. It will be a sad, corporate shadow of the vibrant community it once was. And it will not last. I honestly believe distributed social media - ActivityPub, BlueSky (ew), or something yet to come - will be the future. It will look like your favorite social media feeds now, but it will act like email, just hopefully with better moderation and spam handling. Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Reddit, and even YouTube will eventually relent and tie themselves to this ecosystem as a last ditch effort to stay alive, then probably picked apart by private equity vultures in an ignominious final act.
EDIT: WOW - within five minutes of posting this, this other news story crossed my transom, more or less confirming my theory. Neat! https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/reddit-blackout-prote...
Basically, they're chasing away the folks who are most likely to cause a ruckus when Reddit inevitably tries to go IPO or otherwise make a profit. Everyone is saying this is in prep for their IPO, but I agree with Huffman's analysis that now is a really shitty time to be pondering an IPO. My guess is he has a checklist of items he needs to accomplish on the site handed to him by leadership to make everything look good for an IPO. He may have realized a lot of these would not go well with the community - this isn't his first rodeo with this stuff - so he applied draconian measures, hardened his heart against the mods and app devs who made the site what it is, and is hoping and praying there will be something left when the smoke clears. And there will be, especially as they force subreddits back into the light and encouraging mods to turn on each other. Basically, this is a loyalty test, and all of the disloyal people are being forced out. The loyal people who will pretty much go with anything Reddit leadership wants will be all that's left, and they're banking that will be enough. Add the influx of Facebook and Twitter refugees who likely see all of this as just nerd posturing, and, yeah, Reddit will likely survive and go IPO.
But it will not be Reddit. It will be a sad, corporate shadow of the vibrant community it once was. And it will not last. I honestly believe distributed social media - ActivityPub, BlueSky (ew), or something yet to come - will be the future. It will look like your favorite social media feeds now, but it will act like email, just hopefully with better moderation and spam handling. Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Reddit, and even YouTube will eventually relent and tie themselves to this ecosystem as a last ditch effort to stay alive, then probably picked apart by private equity vultures in an ignominious final act.
EDIT: WOW - within five minutes of posting this, this other news story crossed my transom, more or less confirming my theory. Neat! https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/reddit-blackout-prote...
Because they also tend to find ways to make that easier for themselves (like no ads, etc) which what Reddit doesn’t want. I believe they are drastically underestimating the overlap of short two groups.
It's probably less than 1% of users that care about these changes at all. An even smaller number will actually dial down their reddit usage as a result of this.
The only consequence Reddit will suffer from this is an increase in ad revenue and maybe the added side effect of reigning in the power of moderators. Let me be clear: Reddit messed up in their communication and execution of effectively cutting out third-party apps but the underlying strategy remains sound.
The only consequence Reddit will suffer from this is an increase in ad revenue and maybe the added side effect of reigning in the power of moderators. Let me be clear: Reddit messed up in their communication and execution of effectively cutting out third-party apps but the underlying strategy remains sound.
> Reddit's Data API was updated in April, introducing a premium access tier for developers that offered additional features, increased usage limits, and expanded usage rights. These modifications were met with considerable resistance.
What a pleasant way of putting it.
What a pleasant way of putting it.
That should be in textbooks as an example of how to lie while telling the truth.
I guess I'm thinking, okay, so make them do that? If there really is a type of person out there that enjoys providing the free labor of modding so much that they crumple at even a hint of being replaced, then yeah Steve is going to roll over them.
The mods are reopening because they don't want to lose their powers.
They know that if Reddit found new mods, the users probably wouldn't notice or care.
They know that if Reddit found new mods, the users probably wouldn't notice or care.
What percentage of these new scab mods are going to be trolls, spammers or propagandists though?
I'll happily take the mod slot for any subreddit involving Donald Trump, as long as they keep allowing NSFW content.
I'll happily take the mod slot for any subreddit involving Donald Trump, as long as they keep allowing NSFW content.
The mods are ""scabbing"" their own subreddit in this case. The protest was supposed to be about API access making the site better for all redditors, but as soon as the mods had something to lose they quickly forgot that part.
Reddit is threatening to ban the existing mods, and replace them with whoever shows up. I’m referring to “whoever shows up” as scabs.
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To any mods facing similar pressure: you can implement ridiculous rules. Like how Reddit is fine with r/Superbowl deleting any post that isn't a picture of an owl.
Might I recommend requiring all posts to your sub to tag u/spez, or having an even number of characters, etc. All of which can easily be done with Automod.
This lets you to moderate your subreddit and enforce the rules while allowing it to wither on the vine.
Might I recommend requiring all posts to your sub to tag u/spez, or having an even number of characters, etc. All of which can easily be done with Automod.
This lets you to moderate your subreddit and enforce the rules while allowing it to wither on the vine.
> Like how Reddit is fine with r/Superbowl deleting any post that isn't a picture of an owl.
Minor nitpick: I agree with the idea, but the deletion of any post that doesn't contain an owl on r/Superbowl isn't a ridiculous rule. The subreddit is dedicated to "superb owls" and not to anything else.
Minor nitpick: I agree with the idea, but the deletion of any post that doesn't contain an owl on r/Superbowl isn't a ridiculous rule. The subreddit is dedicated to "superb owls" and not to anything else.
Agreed. When I go to the superbowl subreddit, I am expecting many superb owls and nothing else. I don't see how anyone can have a problem with that. Sometimes, the users are the problem and we need a heavy hand to make sure they are obedient -- all for their benefit, not ours.
Reminds me of Saturday Night Live’s Celebrity Jeopardy where one contestant famously mispronounced “ThePenIsMightier” category. (Just lowercase the first “I”)
/r/apple should pivot to be about Apple Records and the Beetles
I was hoping to go there for an in depth discussion about the merits of Granny Smith vs Red Delicious
Red Delicious is now a grotesque betrayal of its original version and you know it.
Red Mediocre didn't test well with the focus groups
This really should be it. Open up but slowly deteriorate the experience.
Here's a concrete proposal: Set automod to delete any post/comment longer than 20 characters.
This makes discussion virtually impossible, and starts to impact the quality of Reddit posts. With enough subs cooperating (e.g. the subs that went private over the blackout), it'd already be making a serious impact on the usage experience of Reddit. Furthermore, this policy can be enacted indefinitely without stopping the "regular operation" of Reddit (i.e. mods can sit on this policy for as long as they need to, as opposed to the blackout which even from the start was planned with a time limit.)
Here's a concrete proposal: Set automod to delete any post/comment longer than 20 characters.
This makes discussion virtually impossible, and starts to impact the quality of Reddit posts. With enough subs cooperating (e.g. the subs that went private over the blackout), it'd already be making a serious impact on the usage experience of Reddit. Furthermore, this policy can be enacted indefinitely without stopping the "regular operation" of Reddit (i.e. mods can sit on this policy for as long as they need to, as opposed to the blackout which even from the start was planned with a time limit.)
Don't be restrictive, be overly permissive.
Let through offensive porn, copyright infringement, spyware, trojans.
There are hyper active pervert/malware communities out there who will eagerly assist.
This path opens Reddit the Corp up to lawsuits and regulatory oversight and does far more lasting damage.
Let through offensive porn, copyright infringement, spyware, trojans.
There are hyper active pervert/malware communities out there who will eagerly assist.
This path opens Reddit the Corp up to lawsuits and regulatory oversight and does far more lasting damage.
Mod team will be gone by tomorrow morning if they try that.
Sounds like Reddit has ran out of patience.
Sounds like Reddit has ran out of patience.
Yeah it was very patient of them to allow all those people to create, curate and moderate content on their platform at no cost to reddit.
This is actually a great example that justifies reddit's push to allow communities to remove their moderators if they are doing things so egregiously abusive to the community.
This is a cleaning house / loyalty test: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/reddit-blackout-prote...
Reddit mods who do not want to be exploited further are best walking away now and trying to reform - if they decide, this must be exhausting - on the Fediverse.
Reddit mods who do not want to be exploited further are best walking away now and trying to reform - if they decide, this must be exhausting - on the Fediverse.
I'm not sure it started out as a loyalty test, but it is definitely going to function as one. Spez sees this as progress, flushing out problematic (to him) moderators.
I’m sure you can, but at this point, I don’t see why Reddit won’t just strip you from moderation and install someone else.
malicious compliance is the best kind of compliance
Yeah, just ask r/maliciouscompliance
... or just resign as a moderator, start up a Discord/Lemmy instance, and let one of the thousands of people begging to be mods take over the subreddit? Nobody's forcing you to stay on as a mod if you're pissed about Reddit removing third-party app access.
Why don't you start up a new subreddit, and let in the thousands of people begging for it to reopen? Nobody's forcing you to stare at the "this sub is private" page all day if you're pissed about people actually using what little power they have to fight back against a corporation trying to monetize the way you and your community socializes.
Discord is a walled garden without any search indexing.
All knowledge is rotting in there unfortunately.
All knowledge is rotting in there unfortunately.
I don't think this "burn it all down" mentality is helpful.
Presumably the mods are protesting because they want a good Reddit/subreddit experience, and the new policies are hurting that. How is handing power over to someone who is supportive of Reddit's new policies helping that?
Presumably the mods are protesting because they want a good Reddit/subreddit experience, and the new policies are hurting that. How is handing power over to someone who is supportive of Reddit's new policies helping that?
Out of its ashes, something new will take its place.
I was a former lead mod a year ago of a large subreddit. I saw the writing on the wall THEN, and took the sub private, and booted the other mods I brought in. I then started purging content.
Not a few hours later, the other 2 mods I invited in messaged the admins, and removed my moderatorship and then banned my account.
Those subreddits, no matter how many "mod kudos" you have, were never yours, are never yours, and will always be digital sharecropping.
Burn it to the ground. Power is the ONLY message the admins and C levels understand.
I was a former lead mod a year ago of a large subreddit. I saw the writing on the wall THEN, and took the sub private, and booted the other mods I brought in. I then started purging content.
Not a few hours later, the other 2 mods I invited in messaged the admins, and removed my moderatorship and then banned my account.
Those subreddits, no matter how many "mod kudos" you have, were never yours, are never yours, and will always be digital sharecropping.
Burn it to the ground. Power is the ONLY message the admins and C levels understand.
Export the data, then put it on a federated / standalone alternative first.
Otherwise, you're just burning digital books.
I'm curious to see what happens when people start following this advice (it's really the only reasonable path forward), and then what happens with the inevitable lawsuits about how reddit "owns" the content that the authors are "pirating".
Otherwise, you're just burning digital books.
I'm curious to see what happens when people start following this advice (it's really the only reasonable path forward), and then what happens with the inevitable lawsuits about how reddit "owns" the content that the authors are "pirating".
Interesting, a comment with no up or down vote. Is it just me or did this comment just get pinned?
I don't think this is going to win for Reddit mods on a technicality. Reddit can basically make up the rules as they go along since they own the platform, the only real option would be to find an alternative.
Average user: "I just wanted to talk about Apple products."
Average users benefit from the free labor of admins that keep the subreddits on topic, free of spam, mediate conflicts, and remove disruptive posters who degrade the overall experience of browsing and participating in the subreddit.
I think spez has special protection against being tagged.
Nearly everyone has most of those protections.
You can whitelist a set of accounts that can message you.
You can also turn off notifications for username mentions.
https://new.reddit.com/settings/notifications
You can whitelist a set of accounts that can message you.
You can also turn off notifications for username mentions.
https://new.reddit.com/settings/notifications
Opposite actually. An example is r/drama, who was forbidden from tagging anyone with a literal hard-coded exception to the system. But spez iirc specifically said that they were still allowed to ping him .
Good. It's an open secret that mods for the big subs are on the take with moneyed third party interests. Reddit wants in on the action. They should just ban mods in big subs outright. It would improve the discourse significantly across the board.
I hope more and more people will hear about decentralisation and how important it is.
As always, Reddit moderators always end up being blatantly and obviously motivated by anything but their own community. Users not having access to their community is fine, as long as the mods don't lose their petty fiefdom I guess.