A small community of unofficial Apple technicians in Cuba(restofworld.org)
restofworld.org
A small community of unofficial Apple technicians in Cuba
https://restofworld.org/2023/underground-apple-techs-cuba/
56 comments
Our old exchange student from Turkmenistan insisted that there was an Apple store in a couple of malls in Ashgabat, but I showed her that Apple doesn't officially sell anything in TM. She sent me some pictures and it was a complete clone of the official Apple store. Down to outfits, displays, the whole thing. Selling brand new, smuggled in, iPhones/iPads/etc. It was wild.
This was the case in China too until Apple heavily expanded there. There were many knockoff Apple Stores with slightly lower quality outfitting. Here's an "Apple Store" in Iran: https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-tehran-iran-16th-oct-2014-...
There are still tons of fake apple stores in China. They're also in prominent places that you'd expect Apple to open, not in small side streets etc.
Apple has lots of authorized resellers. Apple’s official site has a locator: https://locate.apple.com/sales or https://locate.apple.com/cn/zh/sales.
Not being an official Apple Store doesn’t mean it’s fake, especially if it’s in a prominent mall or something.
Not being an official Apple Store doesn’t mean it’s fake, especially if it’s in a prominent mall or something.
I'm very well aware what they are. Authorized resellers are not supposed to look like real Apple stores.
If you see an "Apple Store" that looks real but isn't an official Apple Store then it's fake, or its an authorized reseller that if Apple finds out about them will lose their status as a reseller.
If you see an "Apple Store" that looks real but isn't an official Apple Store then it's fake, or its an authorized reseller that if Apple finds out about them will lose their status as a reseller.
What a terrible site. It assumes I am only interested in sites near where it thinks I am. I type in “Cairo” and get no results at all. Amman comes out with a village in Wales.
Lol, I blocked the location request and it still limited my results to the region geolocated by my IP.
You'd almost think they don't want people to scrape where the authorized retailers are outside of their immediate location
There are no official Apple stores in Malaysia. But there are Apple "premium resellers" [1] who have shops that strongly resemble Apple stores.
The ones in Malaysia are sanctioned by Apple, since they appear on Apple's own store locator website [2].
[1] Google "machines malaysia" for example
[2] https://locate.apple.com/my/en/sales?pt=4&lat=3.160000085830...
The ones in Malaysia are sanctioned by Apple, since they appear on Apple's own store locator website [2].
[1] Google "machines malaysia" for example
[2] https://locate.apple.com/my/en/sales?pt=4&lat=3.160000085830...
This seems to be the case in many parts of the world. Here is a picture of an "iShop" store in Guatemala City: https://maps.app.goo.gl/GRuxFf5iupVfJApz8
Well, yeah, maybe the furniture and interior design looks the same as in "real" Apple stores, but if you look at the sign outside of the store (can't link to the specific photo on Google Maps unfortunately) there's little danger of confusion...
And we don't necessarily need to step out of the western world to see it. I still remember Authorized Retailers in France before the expansion of Apple stores beyond the US. In Denmark, there is still exclusively these "Premium Authorized Resellers".
There's lots of them in Poland even though Apple now has official presence in the country(although online only, I don't think they have any official Apple Stores yet).
strongly resemble is fine (maybe encouraged?). These stores do not claim Apple copyright and also advertise themselves as resellers. Also, being a premium reseller, they do handle warranty (regardless of whether you bought the product there, in another store, or from another country).
Do you know of any pictures of these Turkmen 'apple stores' online?
I don’t. I’ll ask her if her sister who is still in country can send her a couple. I’ll update the thread if I get any. It’s a very interesting place, it’s a shame it’s so closed off.
For the longest time there was a store in Akihabara Tokyo that wasn't a fake Apple Store, but really looked like it wanted to be one.
Sofmap Mac Collection, I think.
https://web.archive.org/web/20110426040855/http://www.mac-co...
https://web.archive.org/web/20110426040855/http://www.mac-co...
I knew of a fake Ikea mini-store in Kiev in 2014.
Apple service network is not so great, good reason not to travel with Macbooks. DigitalNomad subreddit is full of horror stories and international flights to get machine fixed.
PC has removable SSD and many cheap options to buy new machine.
PC has removable SSD and many cheap options to buy new machine.
This isn't even really a hateful comment about just making fun of Apple, why is this hidden?
> To accomplish this, they use free websites like TextNow
+1 to TextNow here, if you need a free phone number in the US and you don't actually live there, they're the way to go (or were a few years ago at least.)
+1 to TextNow here, if you need a free phone number in the US and you don't actually live there, they're the way to go (or were a few years ago at least.)
Since this kind of trade embargo is so lax, it can only be assumed to be formally a part of the foreign policy strategic goal: create sufficient internal backpressure to liberalise the market, that it makes sense for the Cuban government to give in. I wonder if it works?
There is no specific "only apple" in this. So, all the anti-cuban government info is available via VPN from other places, via the local copy wikipedia &c. It would work on Android. There might be "I trust apple more, I trust icloud more to protect my secrecy" or "Less spyware risk" maybe.
At this point, I would think that being part of a combine which collects old apple gear (actually, almost any ICT gear), puts it in a container, and ships to Havana would work fine. I doubt every US government body wants that so you'd be placed in the position of evading ITAR regulations or some equivalent.
You would think that much the same happens in Syria, Libya, Iran, you-name-it: equipment beyond end-of-life in the developed west winds up either in the waste stream or part of a container delivered via various paths into these economies for the value it has, mending other things or being mended itself.
There is no specific "only apple" in this. So, all the anti-cuban government info is available via VPN from other places, via the local copy wikipedia &c. It would work on Android. There might be "I trust apple more, I trust icloud more to protect my secrecy" or "Less spyware risk" maybe.
At this point, I would think that being part of a combine which collects old apple gear (actually, almost any ICT gear), puts it in a container, and ships to Havana would work fine. I doubt every US government body wants that so you'd be placed in the position of evading ITAR regulations or some equivalent.
You would think that much the same happens in Syria, Libya, Iran, you-name-it: equipment beyond end-of-life in the developed west winds up either in the waste stream or part of a container delivered via various paths into these economies for the value it has, mending other things or being mended itself.
There is nothing lax about the trade embargo. Tell that to the people who can’t get food and medicine. This stuff gets in because there’s still lots of travel and people are clever.
> create sufficient internal backpressure to liberalise the market, that it makes sense for the Cuban government to give in. I wonder if it works?
After more than 50 years, I think the answer is that it doesn’t work. And the US sanctions are illegal under international law, aside from being cruel and counterproductive.
> create sufficient internal backpressure to liberalise the market, that it makes sense for the Cuban government to give in. I wonder if it works?
After more than 50 years, I think the answer is that it doesn’t work. And the US sanctions are illegal under international law, aside from being cruel and counterproductive.
Food and medicine get in because they're exempt from the embargo and because the embargo doesn't stop Cuba from engaging in commerce with other countries. Cuba imports 80% of its food and the US is one of its largest suppliers.
To say that the embargo doesn't affect food or medicine supplies severely and have a huge impact on Cuba's commerce with other countries is simply incorrect.
https://www.wola.org/sites/default/files/downloadable/Cuba/p...
Dated, but still relevant: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8942780/
https://www.wola.org/sites/default/files/downloadable/Cuba/p...
Dated, but still relevant: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8942780/
>There is nothing lax about the trade embargo. Tell that to the people who can’t get food and medicine.
Cubans have all the food and medicine they need because China, Europe, Canada, Mexico, and the rest of the world still trades with them.
The US and Israel are the only countries that have imposed a (very lax) trade ban on Cuba.
Cubans have all the food and medicine they need because China, Europe, Canada, Mexico, and the rest of the world still trades with them.
The US and Israel are the only countries that have imposed a (very lax) trade ban on Cuba.
It's a very extreme embargo, affecting all US companies or all companies that are connected to the US which is an enormous amount of them. It's difficult for a European or foreign company to do business with Cuba because they could end up being sanctioned by the US.
Does that really happen? Has there been any incident of European companies being sanctioned by the US because they traded with Cuba?
Here is a Danish article about more Danish and European companies operating in Cuba because they expect a Vietnam/China-like economic boom:
https://politiken.dk/oekonomi/gloekonomi/art5577587/Virksomh...
Denmark is a NATO country and the US is our main export partner. We wouldn't be trading with Cuba if it put our relationship with the US at risk.
Here is a Danish article about more Danish and European companies operating in Cuba because they expect a Vietnam/China-like economic boom:
https://politiken.dk/oekonomi/gloekonomi/art5577587/Virksomh...
Denmark is a NATO country and the US is our main export partner. We wouldn't be trading with Cuba if it put our relationship with the US at risk.
Yes, it does happen. Not long ago a Spanish company got in trouble because they operated an hotel in a building that belonged to an USA citizen before the Cuban revolution [1]. A Norwegian company was also charged for using a dock in Cuba, which again, was once American property [2]. I think this kind of thing is becoming more rare since apparently only people who was alive when the Helms-Burton nonsense was passed can litigate, but it is definitely a real danger for anybody doing business in Cuba.
[1] https://www.vozpopuli.com/economia_y_finanzas/retiran-demand...
[2] https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-jud...
[1] https://www.vozpopuli.com/economia_y_finanzas/retiran-demand...
[2] https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-jud...
It absolutely happens. My friend's father worked for a Canadian nickel mining company that did business in Cuba, and because of this couldn't set foot in the US. Ships that dock in Cuban ports can't then go to US ports. currency exchange, bank accounts, everything is complicated.
It's true the rest of the western world has basically said "f you" to the US about the trade embargo there, but it doesn't mean that it's ineffective. So much of western capitalism is built around the US financial and legal system that it has a huge impact, not to mention the consequences it can have for people traveling, etc.
Perhaps the worst part about the embargo is that it gives the Cuban gov't an excuse for its mediocrity and authoritarian behaviour. Basically all internal problems get blamed on it.
And it has kept the Cuban regime in a hostile place re: the US. Obama made some moves to rectify this, but Trump reversed them and then doubled back down.
It's true the rest of the western world has basically said "f you" to the US about the trade embargo there, but it doesn't mean that it's ineffective. So much of western capitalism is built around the US financial and legal system that it has a huge impact, not to mention the consequences it can have for people traveling, etc.
Perhaps the worst part about the embargo is that it gives the Cuban gov't an excuse for its mediocrity and authoritarian behaviour. Basically all internal problems get blamed on it.
And it has kept the Cuban regime in a hostile place re: the US. Obama made some moves to rectify this, but Trump reversed them and then doubled back down.
>And it has kept the Cuban regime in a hostile place re: the US.
Exactly-- these embargoes and sanctions only hurt the general population and keep the government in a siege mentality.
Exactly-- these embargoes and sanctions only hurt the general population and keep the government in a siege mentality.
In fact this may be exactly what parts of the US government want. A hostile dysfunctional authoritarian broken state claiming the mantle of "socialism" (dubious, but whatever) is a great example (along with Venezuela) to point to to say "Why Socialism Bad, See?"
With the sanctions lifted one of two things would likely happen: the "communist" regime would disintegrate under competition, leaving something likely still hostile to the US but not particularly "negative exemplar"is -- like what happened in the eastern bloc -- or it would economically "reform" well enough to function/compete in the world market (like Vietnam or China) while still pretending to be "socialist." Neither of those outcomes are likely outcomes that US capital really wants.
Plus at this point the Cuban economy is heavily dominated by trade competitors to the US. Spanish, Italian, French, and (to a lesser extent) Canadian companies dominate there. Its telecoms systems, electrical grid, energy, etc. are not based on US standards or tech. Non-US companies operate in places and on "property" that US capital still considers to be "theirs" from pre-revolutionary days. Imagine the legal clusterfuck when the blockade/sanctions regime falls apart, and normal trade is attempted again...
In any case, the Cuban people and most normal Cuban exiles aren't doing well out of the status quo. But the Communist Party actually kinda prospers out of this arrangement, and it gives a good drum for right wing politicians in Florida to beat on.
I'm sure Kissinger has some blueprint on this topic somewhere written down, and it's propagated through successive administrations with little to no modification.
With the sanctions lifted one of two things would likely happen: the "communist" regime would disintegrate under competition, leaving something likely still hostile to the US but not particularly "negative exemplar"is -- like what happened in the eastern bloc -- or it would economically "reform" well enough to function/compete in the world market (like Vietnam or China) while still pretending to be "socialist." Neither of those outcomes are likely outcomes that US capital really wants.
Plus at this point the Cuban economy is heavily dominated by trade competitors to the US. Spanish, Italian, French, and (to a lesser extent) Canadian companies dominate there. Its telecoms systems, electrical grid, energy, etc. are not based on US standards or tech. Non-US companies operate in places and on "property" that US capital still considers to be "theirs" from pre-revolutionary days. Imagine the legal clusterfuck when the blockade/sanctions regime falls apart, and normal trade is attempted again...
In any case, the Cuban people and most normal Cuban exiles aren't doing well out of the status quo. But the Communist Party actually kinda prospers out of this arrangement, and it gives a good drum for right wing politicians in Florida to beat on.
I'm sure Kissinger has some blueprint on this topic somewhere written down, and it's propagated through successive administrations with little to no modification.
I was born and grew up in Cuba. I immigrated to the US, but I still visit family and friends when I can. I communicate with them regularly.
As someone who has first-hand experience let me tell you that Cubans do NOT have all the food and medicine they need. The situation is pretty bad. I know this because I’ve been there, in real-life, interacting with real people. I’ve gone to a Cuban grocery store with my family and seen the shelves empty. You may go as a tourist and have a very different experience, because the government has setup “tourist-only” stores and hotels with very high prices that a Cuban person would never be able to afford and in some cases not even be allowed to enter. I know this because I’ve witnessed my family and friends being denied entry into a store because they did not have a foreign passport.
The Cuban government has been incredibly successful in painting this picture of Cuba as an anti-capitalist success story. I’m always surprised by the amount of people (especially Europeans) that I speak to and think Cuba is this great pristine place that capitalism never tainted. People who often flat out refuse to believe me when I tell them how bad things are, despite them not ever having set a foot on the island. I wonder where the heck they are getting all these fantasy stories from.
As someone who has first-hand experience let me tell you that Cubans do NOT have all the food and medicine they need. The situation is pretty bad. I know this because I’ve been there, in real-life, interacting with real people. I’ve gone to a Cuban grocery store with my family and seen the shelves empty. You may go as a tourist and have a very different experience, because the government has setup “tourist-only” stores and hotels with very high prices that a Cuban person would never be able to afford and in some cases not even be allowed to enter. I know this because I’ve witnessed my family and friends being denied entry into a store because they did not have a foreign passport.
The Cuban government has been incredibly successful in painting this picture of Cuba as an anti-capitalist success story. I’m always surprised by the amount of people (especially Europeans) that I speak to and think Cuba is this great pristine place that capitalism never tainted. People who often flat out refuse to believe me when I tell them how bad things are, despite them not ever having set a foot on the island. I wonder where the heck they are getting all these fantasy stories from.
Lots of people, especially Europeans, do visit Cuba. I'm sure they share their experiences with friends and family. And no, they're not just staying at resorts. Plenty stay at casas particulares with regular families. Is the situation bad? Yes, especially since Trump's maximum pressure nonsense. Is it worse than the Dominican Republic, darling of US empire in the Caribbean? Definitely not. You go to any rural area of the DR and you still find rampant illiteracy, malnutrition and even dirt floors. Those are not things you find in Cuba. There is definitely hardship, but much of that can be attributed directly to the embargo and its cumulative effects over several decades.
Why does the US even stil have sanctions against Cuba? The whole "commies bad" days are kinda over. And they have normal trade with China anyway.
Because Cuban voters in south Florida
Really? Why would they want to strangle their own families' food and medical resources?
Yes, really. The more prominent and politically active are zealots (even terrorists). And it's because they think that it will eventually topple the government. You know, "tough love." If you don't subscribe to their ideology you will be marginalized-- a major setback in a tight-knit community.
This is exactly correct. And it's particularly pathetic that Democrats try to pander to these voters as they will always prefer right-wing Republicans. Biden could have undone a lot more of Trump's maximum pressure nonsense, but he's afraid of Florida and that pervert Bob Menendez (https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/nation-world/sd-me...).
Another classic example of used products given new life in an organized matter: a lot of used cars end up in Africa.
I slowly hitchhiked from Europe to West Africa in 2007 and from Western Sahara on, my drivers were all French people driving some old car down to sell for a little quick cash. But already by that time Senegal had said enough already, and so drivers had to head for Mali or Burkina Faso instead. I wonder if the violence in those countries in recent years has put a damper on the used car trade, or if they too banned such informal imports.
ABC news here in Australia has a story about Tonga drowning in 30,000 broken used cars, which has motivated an intervention to get a local crushing plant working so the metals can be sent back to Japan for recycling, and to get productive land back into use. Small pacific island economies are the end of the road in every sense.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2023-09-19/how-tonga-pla...
Africa has different problems. Friends had to leave a Morris Minor van in the desert, there were no UK conforming spare parts, if they'd driven a french car or truck almost anything would have worked because metric. That was a few decades ago but they said the landscape was littered with broken cromwell, challenger and other tanks, from the desert campaigns. The rate of rain is low enough these metal hulks last many decades.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2023-09-19/how-tonga-pla...
Africa has different problems. Friends had to leave a Morris Minor van in the desert, there were no UK conforming spare parts, if they'd driven a french car or truck almost anything would have worked because metric. That was a few decades ago but they said the landscape was littered with broken cromwell, challenger and other tanks, from the desert campaigns. The rate of rain is low enough these metal hulks last many decades.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37565385
One of the solutions proposed there is to set the import duty high enough to fund disposal of (at least) one car.
One of the solutions proposed there is to set the import duty high enough to fund disposal of (at least) one car.
I'm surprised removing scrap metal is that complicated/expensive. Tonga has a container port, and I'm guessing they tend to receive full containers and send back out empties.
Some places find ways to take advantage of this, e.g. Canada exports most of it's bean/pulse crop in bags to Asia in containers instead of bulk carriers. Wasn't that long ago we did the same with scrap metal (maybe still do).
Certainly a crusher/cuber helps maximize density, but a torch or other cutting tools can go a long way to save space. And you're mainly paying for weight anyway as the empty is a sunk cost.
Some places find ways to take advantage of this, e.g. Canada exports most of it's bean/pulse crop in bags to Asia in containers instead of bulk carriers. Wasn't that long ago we did the same with scrap metal (maybe still do).
Certainly a crusher/cuber helps maximize density, but a torch or other cutting tools can go a long way to save space. And you're mainly paying for weight anyway as the empty is a sunk cost.
> drivers were all French people driving some old car down
The peugeotard way is basically a tradition stretching back to the '60s; for many, it's just an excuse to have an epic road trip. I remember reading about it in the '90s in an excellent Italian book, Vado verso il Capo - 13.000 km attraverso l'Africa (Feltrinelli, 1996) by Sergio Ramazzotti.
The peugeotard way is basically a tradition stretching back to the '60s; for many, it's just an excuse to have an epic road trip. I remember reading about it in the '90s in an excellent Italian book, Vado verso il Capo - 13.000 km attraverso l'Africa (Feltrinelli, 1996) by Sergio Ramazzotti.
Everybody’s enjoying Cuba for travel and accomodations except the US, and as usual in the US we only get the extreme perspective of whoever was a loser in their home country. Comfortable people don’t go out of their way to come here.
It really skews our perspective, the Cuban government doesn’t need to give in to anything. The article is about a German resident just chilling in Cuba, and picking up an iPhone in Miami on a weekend bender. Nobody cares about the US’ political machinations so that Florida votes swing in the desired direction, the rest of the world gives Cuba enough commerce and doesnt think anything of it.
It really skews our perspective, the Cuban government doesn’t need to give in to anything. The article is about a German resident just chilling in Cuba, and picking up an iPhone in Miami on a weekend bender. Nobody cares about the US’ political machinations so that Florida votes swing in the desired direction, the rest of the world gives Cuba enough commerce and doesnt think anything of it.
Ironic how Cuba used to be a authoritarian country where Americans went to party.
Now it's an authoritarian country where everyone but Americans go to party.
Now it's an authoritarian country where everyone but Americans go to party.
You got exclusivity on Puerto Rico on the other hand. That didn't get free after the invasion.
FEMA struggling to spend the money to get back on top from Hurricane Ian. If I was Boricuas I'd feel very "are we 2nd class citizens again?" about this.
“again”
aside from it being trendy to say equality and espouse those values, what about PR’s status suggests the residents would be anything other than a 2nd class of citizen under the United States?
aside from it being trendy to say equality and espouse those values, what about PR’s status suggests the residents would be anything other than a 2nd class of citizen under the United States?
Puerto Rico keeps getting asked if they want to be a state and keeps saying no.
The current Supreme Court has suggested being open to revisiting the insular cases
That would create additional outcomes to PR that they are never asked about
The insular cases are pretty unrecognizably appallingly racist for what we expect of the court, really go read them, so I could see them overruling it and wind up dropping Puerto Rico and Congress being unable to reach consensus on any other outcome
That would create additional outcomes to PR that they are never asked about
The insular cases are pretty unrecognizably appallingly racist for what we expect of the court, really go read them, so I could see them overruling it and wind up dropping Puerto Rico and Congress being unable to reach consensus on any other outcome
Absolutely fascinating reading. Bound up in identity politics, but also shenanigans about how votes are counted, whats on the ballot, what combination of local politics vs the financial consequences for individuals (tax, benefits) you look at.
Puerto Rican's would gain some things in medicaid, have to pay different rates of tax, and lose some status in UN and LAC community contexts.
On the mainland, both major parties ostensibly support in principle self determination. That said, I don't see how the current political landscape could produce it, given the fracture lines.
I loved this footnote in the wiki page:
Puerto Rican's would gain some things in medicaid, have to pay different rates of tax, and lose some status in UN and LAC community contexts.
On the mainland, both major parties ostensibly support in principle self determination. That said, I don't see how the current political landscape could produce it, given the fracture lines.
I loved this footnote in the wiki page:
Another misconception is that the import/export taxes collected by the U.S. on products manufactured in Puerto Rico are all returned to the Puerto Rico Treasury. This is not the case. Such import/export taxes are returned only for rum products, and even then the U.S. Treasury keeps a portion of those taxesTBH as a Canadian been to Cuba many times, both for "all inclusive vacation package" trips and for "real" travel (rent a car, stay in casa particulars, tour around the country, meet and talk to real Cubans [in broken English/Spanish]) and, I dunno... I don't think I want to go back.
Beautiful country, amazing people. But it's kind of bleak, and not getting any better. I'm fairly radically left wing, and when I was younger I was more ambiguous about that regime -- critical but also fairly naive about it -- but I've seen enough now to just be totally critical.
Cuba is corrupt and authoritarian and I don't feel good about spending my money there.
They throw people with opinions like mine in jail, they make ordinary people's lives brutally hard, and it's basically run by a mafia with the name "Communist Party" stamped on it.
They've also become explicitly Putin-allied and part of that sphere of ick that pretends to be "anti-colonial" but is really are just vicious thugs.
The US needs to drop the embargo, but that gov't needs to end. Somehow.
Beautiful country, amazing people. But it's kind of bleak, and not getting any better. I'm fairly radically left wing, and when I was younger I was more ambiguous about that regime -- critical but also fairly naive about it -- but I've seen enough now to just be totally critical.
Cuba is corrupt and authoritarian and I don't feel good about spending my money there.
They throw people with opinions like mine in jail, they make ordinary people's lives brutally hard, and it's basically run by a mafia with the name "Communist Party" stamped on it.
They've also become explicitly Putin-allied and part of that sphere of ick that pretends to be "anti-colonial" but is really are just vicious thugs.
The US needs to drop the embargo, but that gov't needs to end. Somehow.
I don’t disagree
But hoping American public and private sector economic pressures have anything to do with anything are the thing I find naive, and oozing with indoctrinated hubris that’s reinforced by people from that country that vehemently agree. Its a skewed perspective is my only point.
The “axis of ick” reinforces how little pressure there is on that government system in reality.
Those ills are not different from any other poor Caribbean island. There’s not that much accountability on any island nation regardless of the governance system.
But hoping American public and private sector economic pressures have anything to do with anything are the thing I find naive, and oozing with indoctrinated hubris that’s reinforced by people from that country that vehemently agree. Its a skewed perspective is my only point.
The “axis of ick” reinforces how little pressure there is on that government system in reality.
Those ills are not different from any other poor Caribbean island. There’s not that much accountability on any island nation regardless of the governance system.