Ask HN: Is 36 too old to (re)start a career in tech?
44 comments
Are you serious? Age has nothing to do with it. If you put obstacles in your own way and read nonsense by people who feel backwards into success at a young age you will fail, regardless of age.
The average age of a business founder in America: 45.
https://hbr.org/2018/07/research-the-average-age-of-a-succes...
Who cares what you think Paul Graham or San Altman might think? Do you imagine they solely have the power to decide who succeeds or fails, or what age you can decide what to do? One thing successful people don’t do is worry about what other people might think.
The average age of a business founder in America: 45.
https://hbr.org/2018/07/research-the-average-age-of-a-succes...
Who cares what you think Paul Graham or San Altman might think? Do you imagine they solely have the power to decide who succeeds or fails, or what age you can decide what to do? One thing successful people don’t do is worry about what other people might think.
I recently met someone who completely reinvented his career in his 40s, going from one very skilled artistic field (professional classical musician in NYC) to a specialized technical/construction trade in which he had absolutely no background when he started.
He said he didn't like the uncertainty of being a musician, which required constant auditions, as well as the ephemeral nature of the performances.
He started taking masonry classes, worked up to a certain grade in the specialized subfield, and pretty quickly started getting jobs. He now has more offers of work than he can take on, and is a qualified instructor.
He's 70, and he loves what he does.
He said he didn't like the uncertainty of being a musician, which required constant auditions, as well as the ephemeral nature of the performances.
He started taking masonry classes, worked up to a certain grade in the specialized subfield, and pretty quickly started getting jobs. He now has more offers of work than he can take on, and is a qualified instructor.
He's 70, and he loves what he does.
It is never too late to start something you want to do. Never. Ray Croc was a an average mediocre salesperson until 52 when he got into the McDonald's franchising stuff. Colonel Sanders was 60+ when he started KFC. Eric Yuan was 40+ when he launched Zoom. For every example of a 20+ whizkid, there are plenty of examples of people in their 40s or later who have started something and became successful.
36, you have just graduated out of being a kid (Source: Age 42). You got plenty of time to do things. Age is not your issue. In fact, use the experience you now have to your advantage.
36, you have just graduated out of being a kid (Source: Age 42). You got plenty of time to do things. Age is not your issue. In fact, use the experience you now have to your advantage.
It is my opinion that very few interesting successes made it before the age of 30 - https://mrsteinberg.com/creatives-who-made-it-when-they-were...
No. But you're sabotaging yourself if you're thinking you're too old.
FWIW, I am much older than you and retiring soon and am contemplating a career change. My grandfather went from sales to programming in his early 70s and made a literal fortune[1] contracting.
1. Many millions USD, doing programming on IBM platforms around Y2K. Coincidentally, 2036 [2] and 2038 [3] are coming up.
2. http://www.lieberbiber.de/2017/03/14/a-look-at-the-year-2036...
3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem
FWIW, I am much older than you and retiring soon and am contemplating a career change. My grandfather went from sales to programming in his early 70s and made a literal fortune[1] contracting.
1. Many millions USD, doing programming on IBM platforms around Y2K. Coincidentally, 2036 [2] and 2038 [3] are coming up.
2. http://www.lieberbiber.de/2017/03/14/a-look-at-the-year-2036...
3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem
First step would be to stop looking to YC or the general VC tech sphere for any kind of validation or role modeling.
If you want to do something, have realistic expectations/goals and do it for you. Anything else is setting yourself up for failure.
If you want to do something, have realistic expectations/goals and do it for you. Anything else is setting yourself up for failure.
At 36 you're still in your thirties, only just done being a kid. Many new engineers bring skills from previous careers over (such as communication, which I would argue is the most important skill, at least in software). So in many regards, compared to someone just starting out in their early 20s, you've actually skipped a few steps.
That said, if you're not willing to put in time _practicing_ and _learning_ in your off-hours, it will be very difficult to break through and be successful on the job at work. And to be hired, you'll need more than a generic code boot camp portfolio.
That said, if you're not willing to put in time _practicing_ and _learning_ in your off-hours, it will be very difficult to break through and be successful on the job at work. And to be hired, you'll need more than a generic code boot camp portfolio.
>> Maybe I’m deluded. Perhaps 36 really is too old and that’s the harsh truth that no one has the heart to express?
Although ageism is a real thing in tech, cross-disciplined developers bring a lot of soft skills and creative solutions to teams, at any age. Many companies recognize this.
My larger concern is why you would think this at your age. I hope you don't hold hidden biases against people that are over 40 and attempting to restart their careers.
Although ageism is a real thing in tech, cross-disciplined developers bring a lot of soft skills and creative solutions to teams, at any age. Many companies recognize this.
My larger concern is why you would think this at your age. I hope you don't hold hidden biases against people that are over 40 and attempting to restart their careers.
Realistically, at 36, you're too old to start in pro sports and no military is going to take you unless it's extremely desperate times or you're an MD. That's about it as far as being strictly limited. I didn't start in software until I was 34 and it didn't present any barriers I could see. Chances are you have a much more demanding life and possibly other people depending on you compared to when you were 20, but on the other hand, I also wanted to party, travel, experiment with drugs, date and have sex as much as possible, when I was 20, and had gotten that all out of my system by my mid-30s and I was ready to just hunker down and work.
Why do you even care what Sam Altman and Paul Graham think? What's your goal here? There's a world of difference in how much you need to impress someone to have a stable, rewarding career earning four times the median salary of any other industry that isn't finance or pro entertainment performer compared to trying to convince a VC firm they should give you 9 figures so you can hire a few hundred other people and expand your own business globally.
Why do you even care what Sam Altman and Paul Graham think? What's your goal here? There's a world of difference in how much you need to impress someone to have a stable, rewarding career earning four times the median salary of any other industry that isn't finance or pro entertainment performer compared to trying to convince a VC firm they should give you 9 figures so you can hire a few hundred other people and expand your own business globally.
Man, 36 is young. I'm a self-taught programmer who started as an engineer, and although that obviously gave me a huge leg up, I started at the bottom as a Junior dev. I was about your age when I took my first coding interview.
The harsh truth is actually that you could do a computer science undergrad, complete a master's degree, and start a PhD, and still be younger than I am now!
The harsh truth is actually that you could do a computer science undergrad, complete a master's degree, and start a PhD, and still be younger than I am now!
isn't the average startup founder 48 and has at least a masters degree? do whatever you want. life is short, if you want to work in tech then learn some technology stack and go work in tech. i agree with /u/halfmatthalfcat, don't care about what other people are doing, just figure out what you want to do and go do that.
Those trajectory tropes are just fairy tale narratives crafted by publicists to instill a sense of awe and reverence, just like you fell for. Zuckerberg is the closest we have to a failed example of this, only because he's been under the spotlight since he was a teen. Do you think if you'd grown up with Altman, had to listen to him chew or watched him struggle to fit in with his classmates, he would still glow with such heavenly light in your eyes?
Many of my clients didn't pick up steam for their biggest projects until they were in their 50s, 60s, or even 70s, because that just happened to be the age that they started feeling like they had to start working towards them.
Put differently, you're going to turn 37 whether or or not you try, so wouldn't you rather be older and at least have tried doing tech?
Potential is worthless, otherwise we'd be ruled by burned out child geniuses.
Many of my clients didn't pick up steam for their biggest projects until they were in their 50s, 60s, or even 70s, because that just happened to be the age that they started feeling like they had to start working towards them.
Put differently, you're going to turn 37 whether or or not you try, so wouldn't you rather be older and at least have tried doing tech?
Potential is worthless, otherwise we'd be ruled by burned out child geniuses.
Lots of people feel that way, but that feeling is an inaccurate representation of reality.
Someone at 36 has at least 2x more work ahead of them than behind them.
They do need to pick their work and projects carefully. Thirties is when it is fair to expect that someone knows their own self to a degree, has some basis for understanding the perspectives of others, is responsible about commitments, knows to a degree what they know/can do and don't know/shouldn't do, when working with others. In short, an adult.
An adult tackling a problem in a responsible way is how things in the world actually get done. Welcome! You are now in that club.
There are many lucky savant children in the world, who are good at one thing and idiots at many, and for whom drama is a way of life. One of the joys of working with adults is just not having the drama, staying focused on the issue at hand.
Someone at 36 has at least 2x more work ahead of them than behind them.
They do need to pick their work and projects carefully. Thirties is when it is fair to expect that someone knows their own self to a degree, has some basis for understanding the perspectives of others, is responsible about commitments, knows to a degree what they know/can do and don't know/shouldn't do, when working with others. In short, an adult.
An adult tackling a problem in a responsible way is how things in the world actually get done. Welcome! You are now in that club.
There are many lucky savant children in the world, who are good at one thing and idiots at many, and for whom drama is a way of life. One of the joys of working with adults is just not having the drama, staying focused on the issue at hand.
I sure hope not. I did my degree in CS in 05 then burnt out, got a masters degree in counselling psychology, and have been doing outpatient since then. Recently I’ve been getting a bit bored there so I brushed up on python and picked up some freelance work on the side
It was pretty tough to get my foot in the door. I had nothing on my resume since 2007. But the abbreviated version is that I put together a portfolio and kept trying and eventually got something. Then that went well, and I got another. Hoping to keep the momentum. Will see how it goes I suppose. Keeping my practice going in a smaller capacity just in case and will maintain my license probably forever. I may go back to school as well but I’d prefer to avoid that at this age as I’m a little older than you
It was pretty tough to get my foot in the door. I had nothing on my resume since 2007. But the abbreviated version is that I put together a portfolio and kept trying and eventually got something. Then that went well, and I got another. Hoping to keep the momentum. Will see how it goes I suppose. Keeping my practice going in a smaller capacity just in case and will maintain my license probably forever. I may go back to school as well but I’d prefer to avoid that at this age as I’m a little older than you
Out of curiosity, what kinds of businesses were you submitting your portfolio to, and what kind of work were you finding freelance from that? Asking as someone looking at this route but not sure where to start.
The slightly less abbreviated version is that I did a bit on upwork and eventually freelancer.com. I found postings there were far more forgiving than trying on indeed or similar sites which basically just shut me out 100% of the time. It took a bit of time and taking some menial tasks but I was able to build up a profile and and some solid references especially from 2 bigger contracts that were quite involved
Initial jobs were fairly simple automation tasks and from there moved towards my niche which is data analytics/data science. I was given the advice to try to pick a niche and stick to it rather than just do whatever and jump all over the place so I tried to stick to that. It was helpful I think; in the initial stages when I didn’t stick to that I ended up researching and learning a bunch of stuff that wasn’t really relevant to my end goals. Hth
Initial jobs were fairly simple automation tasks and from there moved towards my niche which is data analytics/data science. I was given the advice to try to pick a niche and stick to it rather than just do whatever and jump all over the place so I tried to stick to that. It was helpful I think; in the initial stages when I didn’t stick to that I ended up researching and learning a bunch of stuff that wasn’t really relevant to my end goals. Hth
I know two guys who were in non-tech field their whole life and successfully switched to software engineering in their fifties (so about 15 years older than you). They started as QA engineers and then switched to software development after a few years.
So I don't think it's impossible.
So I don't think it's impossible.
As somebody who's much older than 36, who also recently landed a job. My advice is don't worry about your age. The most important thing is to get out there and try. I think you'll be surprised at how much opportunity there is, regardless of your age.
What have you been doing until age 36? Did you work in sales? Did you work in some other field that gave you some unique experience and skills?
Even if you feel that you have some weakness in technology, you might have some strengths that other people in technology won't have.
Even if you feel that you have some weakness in technology, you might have some strengths that other people in technology won't have.
I naively dropped out of grad school to cofound a startup where I was pushed out at the 11th hour before it was acquired. Took some personal time off to process the fallout and have been doing some consulting the past couple years.
No network. No achievements. No notable educational or professional institutions on the CV. Just what feels like an ever-narrowing path to any sort of career success.
No network. No achievements. No notable educational or professional institutions on the CV. Just what feels like an ever-narrowing path to any sort of career success.
In what industry were you operating? What was your role? What hats did you wear as a consultant?
You sound a little negative and self-defeatist about everything, whereas a lot of people would be able to spin even a startup failure as an amazing learning and growing experience.
You sound a little negative and self-defeatist about everything, whereas a lot of people would be able to spin even a startup failure as an amazing learning and growing experience.
Fintech, “led” product. And by led, I mean shoot from the hip with no strategy, no experience, and no structure, with a CEO cofounder who from day 1 tried to push me out.
I was sadly incapable of acquiring the mentorship, knowledge, and resources I needed on my own. I was naive and wholly ignorant. I ran around like a headless chicken for 5 years constantly putting out fires and looking over my shoulder.
And now have very little for it.
I was sadly incapable of acquiring the mentorship, knowledge, and resources I needed on my own. I was naive and wholly ignorant. I ran around like a headless chicken for 5 years constantly putting out fires and looking over my shoulder.
And now have very little for it.
Lasting for 5 years in any company means you were doing some things right.
Right now you sound very defeatist and negative and it would be tough for somebody to hire you if this is the mindset you convey to the world.
Treat this as a creative writing exercise. Sit down and list the things you did, and spin them as positively as possible. Even if you didn't do something perfect, so what? You think every company out there is doing everything perfect?
Right now you sound very defeatist and negative and it would be tough for somebody to hire you if this is the mindset you convey to the world.
Treat this as a creative writing exercise. Sit down and list the things you did, and spin them as positively as possible. Even if you didn't do something perfect, so what? You think every company out there is doing everything perfect?
You have learning experiences that lots of people will never have. Cofounding and running a startup is no small feat. And you will never make some of the mistakes again, either, particularly when it comes to the demands of cofounders or investors.
First. Don't read too many of other people's opinions. Or I better say, follow your own path!
I knew a guy in late 90' who worked in a factory floor. He started tinkering with computers trying to fix them, install software. He had no idea what he's doing at the beginning. He was 40 years old. In the coming years he became a tech wiz. Moved from factory floor to QA camera assembly and programming and on the side had a computer repair business. He started programming on the side as well and became pretty good at it. Real problem-solver guy. The kind of person you want if you're building something no matter hardware or software or both.
To answer your question: No, it's not to late!
I knew a guy in late 90' who worked in a factory floor. He started tinkering with computers trying to fix them, install software. He had no idea what he's doing at the beginning. He was 40 years old. In the coming years he became a tech wiz. Moved from factory floor to QA camera assembly and programming and on the side had a computer repair business. He started programming on the side as well and became pretty good at it. Real problem-solver guy. The kind of person you want if you're building something no matter hardware or software or both.
To answer your question: No, it's not to late!
People don't want to hear this but: it depends how smart you are. A smart 36 yo with a reasonably quantitative background (training or career) can become a competent software engineer quite quickly. Most people cannot.
Yeah, though I've seen a lot of raw talent in people who just can't stick it out. I think this is more correlated fields and perhaps a mix of tolerance for fields with similar frustrations mixed with coping strategies for dealing with failure based on technicality.
At any rate I think a lot of people fail out of programming and into another tech career, so it's not really a bad idea for a 30 something from any field.
At any rate I think a lot of people fail out of programming and into another tech career, so it's not really a bad idea for a 30 something from any field.
I’m 41. Rebooted into a tangential career in tech startup land after spending my entire career in insurance.
I feel great about my decision. I’m learning lots of new things. I’m exploring new skills, tactics, strategies. I’ll be 2 years in (next June) and be able to tell a great story about why I did this and all the great outcomes. And that’s despite all the headaches and stress that come taking the risk. Also, all that knowledge and work experience is definitely worth a ton.
Go for it. I remind myself daily of my little blurb and it’s a really quite a powerful motivator. Happy to help separate from HN too if you need it!
I feel great about my decision. I’m learning lots of new things. I’m exploring new skills, tactics, strategies. I’ll be 2 years in (next June) and be able to tell a great story about why I did this and all the great outcomes. And that’s despite all the headaches and stress that come taking the risk. Also, all that knowledge and work experience is definitely worth a ton.
Go for it. I remind myself daily of my little blurb and it’s a really quite a powerful motivator. Happy to help separate from HN too if you need it!
IMO it is a little too late. You won’t be able to land an internship and your career path is tougher than the others. I would suggest doing freelance and see if this is something you want to do before fully committed.
The irony of that advice from a user with that username is comedic gold! Thank you for that. It made my day.
I don't know about Sam Altman or whatever, but IMO the world is in desperate need of Software Engineers with perspective outside of software.
If your concern is more about whether you can actually get hired, you can.
If your concern is more about whether you can actually get hired, you can.
I'd generally recommend not paying too much attention to what Paul Graham or Sam Altman say, just on general principles.
However, as you mention him:
> In 1996, Graham and Robert Morris founded Viaweb and recruited Trevor Blackwell shortly after
At this point, he was 32.
Don't worry about it. The main reason that most startup founders are young is that older people are more likely to have responsibilities which make trying something new difficult for practical purposes.
However, as you mention him:
> In 1996, Graham and Robert Morris founded Viaweb and recruited Trevor Blackwell shortly after
At this point, he was 32.
Don't worry about it. The main reason that most startup founders are young is that older people are more likely to have responsibilities which make trying something new difficult for practical purposes.
This isn't magic.
Identify the skills you need. Acquire them. Identify people who need them. Show them.
Repeat until hired.
This works in every industry, to a certain extent, but in tech, it works very well.
Identify the skills you need. Acquire them. Identify people who need them. Show them.
Repeat until hired.
This works in every industry, to a certain extent, but in tech, it works very well.
I started a career in tech several years ago when I was 35, so I think it's definitely possible for someone just a year older than that.
Unfortunately, now, I want to get out of tech, or transfer from ecommerce to a utility company or something. Having a classic mid-life crisis where I look back and think "boy, tech hasn't been terribly fulfilling."
Unfortunately, now, I want to get out of tech, or transfer from ecommerce to a utility company or something. Having a classic mid-life crisis where I look back and think "boy, tech hasn't been terribly fulfilling."
Not sure where this prevailing myth comes from. I’ve went through y combinator twice, one of the batches I was in had an average age above 36. Many have never started a startup before. Paul Graham and his cofounders were 30 and up when starting their first company and much older for y combinator.
People will doubt you if you doubt yourself.
People will doubt you if you doubt yourself.
36 is not too old for anything. Even if someone says it is, it doesn't mean you should listen to them.
What if I want to be a MD or pilot?
I think still not too late for an MD or pilot if that is your passion. Just that ROI may be effected because of total working years remaining.
Then you would need to go to medical school or pilot training at age 36, which loads of people do.
That may depend on your juridiction.
Tech is entirely a mental game. It's not a sport, where athletes hit their prime in their late 20s, nor is it like mathematics, where peak research seems to happen in their 20s and 30s. You can literally sit in a chair all day and type, and produce a billion-dollar company.
Find the actual source of your inferiority complex and root it out.
the part i struggle with at 39 is where i am now - and where i "perceive" i need to be to be effective, and useful. If i can work out how to reframe that - boy that would be great :P
No.
Throughout the startup world, there is very little in the way of advice for middle-aged / mid-career folks who are looking for a fresh start, or even successful examples of people doing so. If you’re not young or haven’t proven yourself in any notable way by a certain age, the message seems to be that you’re damaged goods.
Maybe I’m deluded. Perhaps 36 really is too old and that’s the harsh truth that no one has the heart to express?
Does anyone else feel this way?