I was happy, sad, lost and lonely without a smartphone at the same time(ruky.me)
ruky.me
I was happy, sad, lost and lonely without a smartphone at the same time
https://ruky.me/2023/09/26/i-was-happy-sad-lost-and-lonely-without-a-smartphone-at-the-same-time/
76 comments
This is one of the various reasons why I dislike the encroaching mandatory 2FA.
Mind you, I have no plans of spending days without a smartphone, and maybe I'll never want to do that, but I don't like the way in which 2FA is making it outright impossible. It should be my own business whether I want a phone or not, and now it's becoming outright mandatory to interact with society (I can't even log into my workplace without 2FA). Another freedom that vanishes.
Mind you, I have no plans of spending days without a smartphone, and maybe I'll never want to do that, but I don't like the way in which 2FA is making it outright impossible. It should be my own business whether I want a phone or not, and now it's becoming outright mandatory to interact with society (I can't even log into my workplace without 2FA). Another freedom that vanishes.
2FA doesn’t require a smart phone. It just requires a second form of authentication.
TOTP (the one time codes that are common methods of 2FA) don’t even need a smart phone. You can store them in most password managers, if you wanted to.
With regards to other forms of MFA, you can use email, SMS, hardware keys and I’ve seen some banks use a second password (which is dumb but probably no worse than email or SMS). Some sites just ask your for “memorable information”, which is also terrible in my opinion.
It just so happens that TOTP is the best second form of authentication because it is both secure but also cheap.
If you don’t want to store those TOTP codes on your smart phone then you can store them in your password manager or buy another physical device just for 2FA. I wouldn’t normally advocate storing your 2FA codes with your passwords, but that’s still better than not having any second factor of authentication at all.
TOTP (the one time codes that are common methods of 2FA) don’t even need a smart phone. You can store them in most password managers, if you wanted to.
With regards to other forms of MFA, you can use email, SMS, hardware keys and I’ve seen some banks use a second password (which is dumb but probably no worse than email or SMS). Some sites just ask your for “memorable information”, which is also terrible in my opinion.
It just so happens that TOTP is the best second form of authentication because it is both secure but also cheap.
If you don’t want to store those TOTP codes on your smart phone then you can store them in your password manager or buy another physical device just for 2FA. I wouldn’t normally advocate storing your 2FA codes with your passwords, but that’s still better than not having any second factor of authentication at all.
You can, if you really care about this, get a dedicated hardware to store your TOTP tokens (for example [1]). There's also various open hardware projects (like [2]). Or you can just use an old smartphone without a SIM card, which probably doesn't "interact with society" any more than the website you're trying to log on to in the first place.
[1]: https://www.token2.com/shop/product/molto-2-v2-multi-profile...
[2]: https://hackaday.io/project/176959-open-authenticator
[1]: https://www.token2.com/shop/product/molto-2-v2-multi-profile...
[2]: https://hackaday.io/project/176959-open-authenticator
An offtopic - since you mentioned hardware. It is better to invest in phishing-resistant FIDO2 devices and try to avoid OTP wherever possible.
You could only have that if your bank account being emptied by someone knowing your password is your problem, not the bank's problem or employees forgoing 2FA carried the liability for their passwords leaking.
If the bank has to be partially responsible for your access credentials and your workplace is going to get in trouble from you reusing a password, of course they are not going to let you have much freedom here.
If the bank has to be partially responsible for your access credentials and your workplace is going to get in trouble from you reusing a password, of course they are not going to let you have much freedom here.
I don't buy that argument, to be honest.
Firstly, before online banking existed fraud was quite common, and this dind't make banks unsustainable. And indeed, one of the key points that made people trust credit cards was that the bank had your back if someone emptied your account somehow. I once had fraudulent charges from a country thousands of kilometers away, on a card that I hadn't even used (so there was no chance it could be my fault). I just flagged them as fraudulent and the bank returned the money a few days later, no questions asked.
Secondly, even if you are a security expert with great password practices, do you really want your banking security be considered just your problem? What if one day your account is hacked through no fault of your own, because of some breach/hack of the bank's systems, and the bank denies it, giving you full responsibility? I think it's extremely dangerous to give banks the option to do that. Fraud should always be the bank's problem by default, unless they can prove that the user was negligent.
Thirdly, even if we accept the assumption that 2FA is needed for security, there are more ways to do 2FA that don't involve a smartphone - for example with a physical device, or with a coordinate card. The fact that most 2FA (at least where I live) is mobile-only, and even banks that used to offer other choices are now moving to mobile-only, is evidence that there is a motivation beyond security, they want to make smartphones mandatory.
Firstly, before online banking existed fraud was quite common, and this dind't make banks unsustainable. And indeed, one of the key points that made people trust credit cards was that the bank had your back if someone emptied your account somehow. I once had fraudulent charges from a country thousands of kilometers away, on a card that I hadn't even used (so there was no chance it could be my fault). I just flagged them as fraudulent and the bank returned the money a few days later, no questions asked.
Secondly, even if you are a security expert with great password practices, do you really want your banking security be considered just your problem? What if one day your account is hacked through no fault of your own, because of some breach/hack of the bank's systems, and the bank denies it, giving you full responsibility? I think it's extremely dangerous to give banks the option to do that. Fraud should always be the bank's problem by default, unless they can prove that the user was negligent.
Thirdly, even if we accept the assumption that 2FA is needed for security, there are more ways to do 2FA that don't involve a smartphone - for example with a physical device, or with a coordinate card. The fact that most 2FA (at least where I live) is mobile-only, and even banks that used to offer other choices are now moving to mobile-only, is evidence that there is a motivation beyond security, they want to make smartphones mandatory.
I have an old iPhone SE (2016) in the drawer at home, with a backup Google Authenticator and passwords backup by iCloud. It doesn't need a separate phone plan, or even any other network connection to function as a backup 2FA/password manager. Network (wifi) access is useful to keep the password data synced (which I scheduled for myself to check manually once a month).
Yeah he is definitely overdramatising.
1. paying the bills is something you do once every month for people not having setup direct payment. Sure most banks wants 2FA nowadays but you could live without a phone daily and only use one (or a tablet, a VM or an emulator) once a month (without SIM and plan). Or go to the actual bank once a month. People used to go to the post office once a month to pay the bills in Switzerland. I am pretty sure a lot of people still do it that way.
2. access to maps. Do what any tourist has done for decades. Go to the tourism office and grab a free map. If you wants more details, buy or print an actual detailed map + the public transport system map. done.
3. I have been a foreigner and have learnt languages just by living in a place. This is by interacting with the people that you start learning better and feel part of the community and culture. Asking for directions is part of it. Sure swiss people may not be on average the warmest people but you will always find people willing to help.
1. paying the bills is something you do once every month for people not having setup direct payment. Sure most banks wants 2FA nowadays but you could live without a phone daily and only use one (or a tablet, a VM or an emulator) once a month (without SIM and plan). Or go to the actual bank once a month. People used to go to the post office once a month to pay the bills in Switzerland. I am pretty sure a lot of people still do it that way.
2. access to maps. Do what any tourist has done for decades. Go to the tourism office and grab a free map. If you wants more details, buy or print an actual detailed map + the public transport system map. done.
3. I have been a foreigner and have learnt languages just by living in a place. This is by interacting with the people that you start learning better and feel part of the community and culture. Asking for directions is part of it. Sure swiss people may not be on average the warmest people but you will always find people willing to help.
Obviously
Your phone broke down, sorry, but you deal with it. You can even get a cheap android anywhere and a cheap prepaid plan if you can't afford a new iPhone
Yes I can understand, having to confirm transactions on a phone lacks a proper fallback plan most of the time
As with people that think their phone is a substitute for their car keys, especially when going countryside with 12% battery, you don't get a lot of sympathy from me
Your phone broke down, sorry, but you deal with it. You can even get a cheap android anywhere and a cheap prepaid plan if you can't afford a new iPhone
Yes I can understand, having to confirm transactions on a phone lacks a proper fallback plan most of the time
As with people that think their phone is a substitute for their car keys, especially when going countryside with 12% battery, you don't get a lot of sympathy from me
I gave up my smartphone and swtiched to a burner. Mostly an accident -- I bought the burner for travel, but then dropped my Pixel.
Biggest struggle was texting -- hard to do when you're pressing number keys -- and no Maps.
Everything else I could get around by bringing my laptop with me, or by moving / planning / scheduling better. Before I could just kinda go and figure it out on the way, get planted and read reddit on my phone, maybe see what was open near my in terms of coffee or food and roll with it. Couldn't do that with a burner.
2FA for personal stuff wasn't too bad, I had a tablet at home and that worked. Most 2FA stuff I didn't do anywhere except at home (disclaimer: also work remotely).
I could make it work, but after a while decided I didn't want to. Easier to scale down smartphone use or try to touch it less, than try to make the burner phone hacks work.
Biggest struggle was texting -- hard to do when you're pressing number keys -- and no Maps.
Everything else I could get around by bringing my laptop with me, or by moving / planning / scheduling better. Before I could just kinda go and figure it out on the way, get planted and read reddit on my phone, maybe see what was open near my in terms of coffee or food and roll with it. Couldn't do that with a burner.
2FA for personal stuff wasn't too bad, I had a tablet at home and that worked. Most 2FA stuff I didn't do anywhere except at home (disclaimer: also work remotely).
I could make it work, but after a while decided I didn't want to. Easier to scale down smartphone use or try to touch it less, than try to make the burner phone hacks work.
> So I had to live last weekend, without a smartphone
Gods, a WHOLE WEEKEND? Un-be-lie-va-ble.
> and made me realize that even though as much as I would love to live without a smartphone, unfortunately, we will never be able to escape from using a smartphone
That was kinda clear from the get go.
Gods, a WHOLE WEEKEND? Un-be-lie-va-ble.
> and made me realize that even though as much as I would love to live without a smartphone, unfortunately, we will never be able to escape from using a smartphone
That was kinda clear from the get go.
Can't they just remove the company Zoom app from their phone and be happy all the time? Or are there places where you are expected to monitor that stuff 24/7?
This was really interesting. Smart phone is almost a friend.. The article reminded me of a great, classic American song.
Your best friend is you. I'm my best friend too. We share the same views and hardly ever argue. Eat spam from the can, Watch late night C-SPAN, and Rock out to old school Duran Duran.
Your best friend is you. I'm my best friend too. We share the same views and hardly ever argue. Eat spam from the can, Watch late night C-SPAN, and Rock out to old school Duran Duran.
This kind of article makes me want to reply in Reddit style, but I'll try really hard to refrain from doing so.
I guess this article is a good example of the mismatch between the intended audience and the actual audience, me.
I am totally unimpressed by someone who hasn't used a smartphone for some hours, but perhaps this is some new kind of sarcasm that I can't yet appreciate.
Somehow I expect public blogs and Twitter messages to be written for the most general audience, but this is obviously almost never the case.
I guess this article is a good example of the mismatch between the intended audience and the actual audience, me.
I am totally unimpressed by someone who hasn't used a smartphone for some hours, but perhaps this is some new kind of sarcasm that I can't yet appreciate.
Somehow I expect public blogs and Twitter messages to be written for the most general audience, but this is obviously almost never the case.
In recent months I’ve noticed a few blogs talk about living with out a phone or, in some cases, internet for a weekend as if it’s some amazing accomplishment.
I love gadgets as much as the next guy and even I find it weird and depressing that some individuals are this dependant on their electronics that they need to write about their digital fasting in the same kind of way that one might talk about a solo expedition to the South Pole.
Even in 2023, I still don’t use my phone for navigating as a tourist. I just walk and explore. It’s far more enjoyable stumbling upon cool places than it is starring at a screen while you rush somewhere.
I love gadgets as much as the next guy and even I find it weird and depressing that some individuals are this dependant on their electronics that they need to write about their digital fasting in the same kind of way that one might talk about a solo expedition to the South Pole.
Even in 2023, I still don’t use my phone for navigating as a tourist. I just walk and explore. It’s far more enjoyable stumbling upon cool places than it is starring at a screen while you rush somewhere.
> I am totally unimpressed by someone who hasn't used a smartphone for some hours, but perhaps this is some new kind of sarcasm that I can't yet appreciate.
I don't think this is sarcasm (sadly) as there really are some people living constantly glued to their phone. Screen time off the roof, like hours and hours a day.
I don't think this is sarcasm (sadly) as there really are some people living constantly glued to their phone. Screen time off the roof, like hours and hours a day.
the zoomers have known no world without smartphones; it's their reality since they were kids.
hell, I had a flip phone in HS and while it wasn't good for much except making my parents feel like they had a line to me, it's been something I carry everywhere all the time for decades.
hell, I had a flip phone in HS and while it wasn't good for much except making my parents feel like they had a line to me, it's been something I carry everywhere all the time for decades.
I think even the author should acknowledge that this is a little ridiculous.
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I quite often just forget my smartphone when I leave home. Last weekend I became the first time nervous about it because I thought i brought it and became nervous but only about that I might have lost it after I found is was not in my pocket.
I never bring my smartphone outside. It stops location tracking. It prevents me from losing or getting it stolen.
Just another case of industrial disease...
Oh for god's sake it's not really that bad. A couple years ago I accidentally, absolutely shattered my smartphone one day and after a couple days without one while shopping around, I decided "why the hell not? let's see how long you can go without". Then spent an entire year with nothing but an old tiny Nokia dumb-as-bricks phone until some new work made a smartphone unavoidable again. You miss a few things sure, but enough of the silly modern drama.
Edit. For financial transactions, for all the talk among many here about not letting BigTech take over your personal life, it would be nice to see more effort to you know, actually apply that to the basics, such as by not utterly depending on a phone and a couple of mega payment processing tech monsters like Apple and Google to pay for basic shit that could be handled through fairly simple alternatives. a little inconvenience for the sake of a more fundamental point rarely kills.
Edit. For financial transactions, for all the talk among many here about not letting BigTech take over your personal life, it would be nice to see more effort to you know, actually apply that to the basics, such as by not utterly depending on a phone and a couple of mega payment processing tech monsters like Apple and Google to pay for basic shit that could be handled through fairly simple alternatives. a little inconvenience for the sake of a more fundamental point rarely kills.
Finance and 2FA are effectively corporate backdoors to finally and completely lock down end-user devices and rent them out - same thing media companies tried to for the sake of DRM, but "preventing piracy" doesn't elicit the same kind of cooperation than "2FA makes you more secure" and "use our banking app to confirm operations, so your money is more secure", slowly being followed by remote attestation being employed to make you even more "secure".
But except for some dinosaurs insisting on SMS (which you can receive on a dumb-as-bricks phone), you can absolutely have 2FA without a smartphone. Most password managers handle it, with the bonus points of checking the domain when entering the TOTP. If you want separate baskets for your eggs, you can use dedicated TOTP apps (Authy works fine for my needs). You can even roll your own. You can use an external token like a YubiKey.
I may be missing something, but I have a really hard time understanding the "corporate backdoor / overwatch / control" argument when it comes to MFA.
I may be missing something, but I have a really hard time understanding the "corporate backdoor / overwatch / control" argument when it comes to MFA.
Where I live the banks all require that you install their own smartphone app in order to confirm transactions. Literally not possible to confirm online transactions with a dumb phone (or a laptop for that matter, unless you can run the mobile app in an emulator).
> Where I live the banks all require that you install their own smartphone app in order to confirm transactions.
Same here in the Baltics, something like SmartID is prevalent and all major banks ask you to use it: https://www.smart-id.com/
Sometimes it's even integrated with document e-signing, to the point where it's hard to say where convenience ends and dependence begins (since something like TOTP or PGP aren't offered as alternatives).
Same here in the Baltics, something like SmartID is prevalent and all major banks ask you to use it: https://www.smart-id.com/
Sometimes it's even integrated with document e-signing, to the point where it's hard to say where convenience ends and dependence begins (since something like TOTP or PGP aren't offered as alternatives).
After a quick glance over the site, it seems the system is fairly open, and they explain how they use the keys. The part on which I'm not clear is the app: is it not possible to build your own app that complies with their various interfaces, which would run on, say, a PC? Those seem to be documented.
I doubt the bank will let me run an alternative app to their "tap 'yes' and type in your mobile PIN within the next 3 minutes to confirm the operation" functionality. Hell, after I broke my phone, I had to call the bank's support for them to manually authorize the new instance of their app as an "authorization tool". If there are procedures to do this with third-party software, I haven't heard or seen them mentioned anywhere, much less documented.
I was talking about the smart-id scheme, which seems to be a "generic" thing, to be used by random different things.
For banks, I don't think that they'll allow use of 3rd party apps, either.
For banks, I don't think that they'll allow use of 3rd party apps, either.
In my case, I think something must have happened because that used to be the case. You might be able to jump through some hoops to avoid that (never tried), but the funny thing is that I didn't do anything with my "professional" account for it to automatically switch back to SMS. The first time it happened, I was actually surprised and thought something fishy was going on.
Maybe some law forcing that has passed in your country? I would find it odd that banks would voluntarily decide to stop forcing their app on users.
I'm not aware of any such law. What I suspect, is it has something to do that the app can only connect to one account, but in my case I have two (personal and pro), so it must have some issue handling both. I freelance in IT, so there's nothing too interesting going on in my professional account, so I expect them not to care too much, since I have the app for my personal account anyway.
It is "secure". It secures the corporation against the end user. That's what makes it attractive as a developer platform.
i have a symantec token thingy sent to me by my brokerage, it generates 6 digit key that I need to login. the author could easily get a similar thing from the bank, i used to have one from WellsFargo too
I used to have one from BNP Paribas in France. But they've phased that out to improve my security by using their app. Which was fine, since I didn't need to cart that fob around. But then they went and improved it even further for my company account by switching from the app to SMS.
Agreed, mandatory 2-factor authentication through ios/android is really what screws you. You can totally do without for the rest.
KeePassXC has Google Authenticator-compatible 2fa on Windows. I expect other programs do too, and for Mac and Linux. No need to keep a smartphone only for 2fa, unless you need something that Google Authenticator can't do
KeePassXC even has Steam-compatible 2FA. But Steam currently still requires some sort of stupid unbypassable mobile prompt in certain circumstances, so you can't ever truly rid yourself of the app.
Yep xc works on Linux too and comes with the 2fa feature too. On mobile you can look at keepassdx which uses the same field as xc for its 2fa.
This.
Problem still persists with mandatory phone number verifications every couple months. It's likely most services have a cronjob running for that.
Problem still persists with mandatory phone number verifications every couple months. It's likely most services have a cronjob running for that.
I setup an old phone just for that (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37655746). It acts more as a backup key than as a backup smartphone. Just like with house/car/bike keys, having a spare in case of loss/theft can save you a lot of hassle.
Depends on where you live I guess. There are two especially important apps where I live, Swish for instant cash transfer, and BankID for authorization to many websites, such as banks, tax office etx. Without them you are definitely handicapped.
Depends how all your friends communicate. If they're all in a WhatsApp or Facebook group chat, for example, having a dumbphone will put you on the outer socially.
Didn't there use to be a version of whatsapp for "feature phones"? Sure, it's not completely "dumb", but I'd expect those to have minimal to no tracking.
It really is that bad now.
I recently got a new phone to replace my Pixel 3 that's no longer receiving updates, and it took days to sort out all the "you must verify this device from your old device" bullshit. These apps are essential to banking, and also to my workplace (I had to call the IT department from one of my devices that thankfully didn't yet have an expired session).
And this is when I HAVE my old device. Imagine the chaos if my old device were lost or broken? Or if google suddenly decided to lock my account?
What do I use my phone for? Communication (Signal, Threema), 2fa, and work, and nothing else. And it's a disaster waiting to happen.
I recently got a new phone to replace my Pixel 3 that's no longer receiving updates, and it took days to sort out all the "you must verify this device from your old device" bullshit. These apps are essential to banking, and also to my workplace (I had to call the IT department from one of my devices that thankfully didn't yet have an expired session).
And this is when I HAVE my old device. Imagine the chaos if my old device were lost or broken? Or if google suddenly decided to lock my account?
What do I use my phone for? Communication (Signal, Threema), 2fa, and work, and nothing else. And it's a disaster waiting to happen.
> What do I use my phone for? Communication (Signal, Threema), 2fa, and work, and nothing else
Sounds like a combination of reasons to switch (or bridge) to Matrix, use a 2FA program you can back up (such as Gnome Authenticator) and a problem for the IT guys at your workplace for your work-provided mobile :)
Sounds like a combination of reasons to switch (or bridge) to Matrix, use a 2FA program you can back up (such as Gnome Authenticator) and a problem for the IT guys at your workplace for your work-provided mobile :)
Sorry, no, that's just not how the real world works.
Matrix is an interesting idea that might even get there someday, but it's not there now, and won't be there next year. And even then, it's only one breaking change away from not working with some communications app I need.
And my workplace isn't going to provide a mobile just for the 2fa apps (multiple) I need, nor would I want to have to carry an extra device just for that.
It's a fragmented world out there, and going with an even more obscure and less supported solution isn't going to cut it.
Matrix is an interesting idea that might even get there someday, but it's not there now, and won't be there next year. And even then, it's only one breaking change away from not working with some communications app I need.
And my workplace isn't going to provide a mobile just for the 2fa apps (multiple) I need, nor would I want to have to carry an extra device just for that.
It's a fragmented world out there, and going with an even more obscure and less supported solution isn't going to cut it.
(I'd argue that it /is/ there now, as of last week: https://element.io/blog/element-x-ignition. And should certainly be there next year. But i'm biased :)
Then of course, there's this: https://telegra.ph/why-not-matrix-08-07
I just calls my bank and dictate them where to send the money to. Then they say thank you and wish me a good day which is why I tries to sends money at least twice a week. I hopes they will never become AI. AI is so dumb and slow and devoid of obvious and subliminal suffering one can hears in the voice and be proud of what humans can cope with.
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A weekend?! I don’t think being without a smartphone for _one weekend_ constitutes any empirical foundation for how life without a smartphone would be.
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If you can't survive a weekend, or even a week, or a month - without your phone - you badly need to take a look at how you're living your life. IMO.
It's a damn beautiful world out here. Silence and space are wonderful. Lack of notifications and lack of stimulation is to be embraced. Cash points and debit cards exist. People are kind and will give you directions. Interactions with humans - real ones, not mediated via a screen - will teach you a million times more useful things about emotion and love and fear than a thousand years of InstaTikTokFaceplant bullshit.
Get back in your life.
It's a damn beautiful world out here. Silence and space are wonderful. Lack of notifications and lack of stimulation is to be embraced. Cash points and debit cards exist. People are kind and will give you directions. Interactions with humans - real ones, not mediated via a screen - will teach you a million times more useful things about emotion and love and fear than a thousand years of InstaTikTokFaceplant bullshit.
Get back in your life.
> Interactions with humans - real ones, not mediated via a screen - will teach you a million times more useful things about emotion and love and fear than a thousand years of InstaTikTokFaceplant bullshit.
My experience completely laughs in the face of this, probably because I've never used Instagram or TikTok, and deleted my Facebook account a decade ago. But the friendships I've had online have been far closer and more engaging than anything that I could have ever had with a "Real Human".
My experience completely laughs in the face of this, probably because I've never used Instagram or TikTok, and deleted my Facebook account a decade ago. But the friendships I've had online have been far closer and more engaging than anything that I could have ever had with a "Real Human".
> My experience completely laughs in the face of this, probably because I've never used Instagram or TikTok, and deleted my Facebook account a decade ago. But the friendships I've had online have been far closer and more engaging than anything that I could have ever had with a "Real Human".
Sometimes you live in an area where people hold different values than you, or have hobbies that are pretty far detached from what you'd prefer to do. Maybe they have political leanings that don't make you comfortable, or kind of expect you to participate in those activities that you don't care for, to fulfill your "role" in society.
In those cases, finding interest groups and communities online that aren't limited to incidentally being in your proximity feels like a good thing! Same for various support groups, or even being able to find information online easily nowadays by content creators!
Nothing wrong with any of that at all. In addition, it's also easier to handle people that you don't want to engage with (blocking) vs IRL. Just watch out for parasocial aspects and takes by terminally online people or influencers.
Sometimes you live in an area where people hold different values than you, or have hobbies that are pretty far detached from what you'd prefer to do. Maybe they have political leanings that don't make you comfortable, or kind of expect you to participate in those activities that you don't care for, to fulfill your "role" in society.
In those cases, finding interest groups and communities online that aren't limited to incidentally being in your proximity feels like a good thing! Same for various support groups, or even being able to find information online easily nowadays by content creators!
Nothing wrong with any of that at all. In addition, it's also easier to handle people that you don't want to engage with (blocking) vs IRL. Just watch out for parasocial aspects and takes by terminally online people or influencers.
Wow. I mean. Wow.
Ah, such a succinct way of conveying "you have violated a social contract in such a blatant way that I will not even give you the common courtesy of explaining what, exactly, you've done wrong".
No. It was literally a complete inability to understand. I'm of the age that I'm not "permanently online" and my real f2f friendships are everything to me. I was just expressing my astonishment that this could be another way.
I'm neurodivergent, so it's not something that works for everyone. But I think it's still possible to love people online, without having to worry about physical bodies.
I don't mean a relationship kind of love, or even the opposite end of the spectrum being totally-platonic love. I just love my friends for the people that they are, perhaps even more than I am capable of loving a physical body.
And because the internet keeps me always connected to everyone... I don't have to arrange meetups, or worry about travel times or expenses, or about people moving away.
I've had tons of traumatic experiences too, because this necessarily comes with a certain degree of vulnerability. I still haven't been able to escape the negative effects of those experiences yet. But I'd say it's worth it just for the wonderful people that I know today.
I don't mean a relationship kind of love, or even the opposite end of the spectrum being totally-platonic love. I just love my friends for the people that they are, perhaps even more than I am capable of loving a physical body.
And because the internet keeps me always connected to everyone... I don't have to arrange meetups, or worry about travel times or expenses, or about people moving away.
I've had tons of traumatic experiences too, because this necessarily comes with a certain degree of vulnerability. I still haven't been able to escape the negative effects of those experiences yet. But I'd say it's worth it just for the wonderful people that I know today.
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I'd be at the Apple Store the following day buying a new iPhone. I don't understand all the romanticizing over having a break - F that. I got stuff to do and people to call.
Same here. Even taking aside the things a smartphone are necessary for like 2FA, it's not like my life was massively different before it.
Instead of browsing the web on the phone screen I instead read a book or a newspaper on the train.
Instead of texting a friend that I'll be 20 minutes late because I missed my connection I instead had to hope that they'd still wait for me at the place we were supposed to meet.
Instead of checking google maps for directions I'd look at the maps hung around the cities or ask someone.
Now all of that might be because I'm an introvert, but I've been listening to music and reading books instead of interacting with strangers since forever. The smartphone just made it so I wouldn't have to lug around several books and a discman.
That said: I absolutely make the exception for work related stuff. There's a reason why I have a separate work and private phone, getting Teams notifications and other work related stuff during my time off can absolutely ruin my evening.
Instead of browsing the web on the phone screen I instead read a book or a newspaper on the train.
Instead of texting a friend that I'll be 20 minutes late because I missed my connection I instead had to hope that they'd still wait for me at the place we were supposed to meet.
Instead of checking google maps for directions I'd look at the maps hung around the cities or ask someone.
Now all of that might be because I'm an introvert, but I've been listening to music and reading books instead of interacting with strangers since forever. The smartphone just made it so I wouldn't have to lug around several books and a discman.
That said: I absolutely make the exception for work related stuff. There's a reason why I have a separate work and private phone, getting Teams notifications and other work related stuff during my time off can absolutely ruin my evening.
You realize not every person is a clone of you right?
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someone physically took my device, knew my pin-code, drained my funds, locked me out of my own icloud and on top of that left me without a smartphone while i dealt with my various bank accounts and a telecom and could not buy lunch or pay my bills - for a week. you don’t have my sympathy
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I mean, I feel for the guy moving to a new country - been there, done that - but, with respect he's hyperventilating just a little bit.