Sitting all day increase dementia risk – even if you exercise(washingtonpost.com)
washingtonpost.com
Sitting all day increase dementia risk – even if you exercise
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2023/09/27/sitting-sedentary-exercise-dementia/
34 comments
One of those days, I need to make a "Tell HN" thread that requests adding a new submission rule to allow only direct links to published research, and never any of this journalistic regurgitation nonsense. The most infuriating thing is that often those garbage articles don't even link to the research, so it takes time to find it!
Agreed. The HN Guidelines[1] already say "Please submit the original source" but I guess it doesn't get enforced very well.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Some of this doesn’t pass the smell test:
> People who worked out but then plopped into chairs for 10 hours or more were as prone to dementia as people who hadn’t exercised much at all.
This just isn’t plausible as a real effect. It suggests the causation is reversed.
> If the men and women sat for at least 10 hours a day, which many of them did, their risk of developing dementia within the next seven years was 8 percent higher than if they sat for fewer than 10 hours. The risks ballooned from there, reaching a 63-percent greater risk of dementia for people who spent at least 12 hours chair-bound.
Weird non-linear effects at arbitrary cutoffs are usually statistical artifacts. It seems unlikely that 9.5 hours is “fine” but at 10 hours you are doomed.
> People who worked out but then plopped into chairs for 10 hours or more were as prone to dementia as people who hadn’t exercised much at all.
This just isn’t plausible as a real effect. It suggests the causation is reversed.
> If the men and women sat for at least 10 hours a day, which many of them did, their risk of developing dementia within the next seven years was 8 percent higher than if they sat for fewer than 10 hours. The risks ballooned from there, reaching a 63-percent greater risk of dementia for people who spent at least 12 hours chair-bound.
Weird non-linear effects at arbitrary cutoffs are usually statistical artifacts. It seems unlikely that 9.5 hours is “fine” but at 10 hours you are doomed.
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Quite possibly people that are healthy and don’t get dementia can stand for longer.
In addition to sitting vs non-sitting periods, I want the study to address the types of activities that people are doing during the sedentary periods. For instance, would sitting and watching TV be as detrimental as sitting and working at a desk?
I guess we gotta wait a few more decades for those results, and maybe they can incorporate a combination of accelerometer data along with screen time.
I guess we gotta wait a few more decades for those results, and maybe they can incorporate a combination of accelerometer data along with screen time.
https://archive.is/kFly5
and the study cited in the article is at https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/28094...
and the study cited in the article is at https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/28094...
> Future research is needed to determine whether the association between sedentary behavior and risk of dementia is causal.
That's unfortunate. Now it's impossible to tell if people who end up with dementia are naturally more sedentary, or if a sedentary lifestyle increases your chances of getting dementia.
That's unfortunate. Now it's impossible to tell if people who end up with dementia are naturally more sedentary, or if a sedentary lifestyle increases your chances of getting dementia.
I wonder if CO2 levels and air quality might be a confounding factor here.
As a chronic fidgeter (practically drumming with my legs at times), I wonder how much of a difference that makes.
Also glad to be working in VR which makes me get up out of my chair a lot for testing.
Also glad to be working in VR which makes me get up out of my chair a lot for testing.
Ok, we know sitting is bad for you, but entire swaths of the economy depend on people sitting for long times to do their jobs, so we as a collective society will not do anything about this as profits will go down as a result of adopting measures to prevent people from sitting for long periods of time.
:-)
:-)
Do we really need to be sitting to do the jobs? One of my favorite conference rooms in my office has a desk that’s perfect height for standing but also comes with high chairs for those who don’t want to stand. Unless the meeting is > 1hr I usually prefer to stand the entire time.
I also find standing is better for collaborative meetings - I find im much more open to ideation while standing/moving.
If those kinds of meeting room were standard perhaps it would bring the numbers down.
I also find standing is better for collaborative meetings - I find im much more open to ideation while standing/moving.
If those kinds of meeting room were standard perhaps it would bring the numbers down.
I requested and received a sit-stand desk at my office. Not sure if standing at a desk is that much better but hopefully so.
We should help those people. Maybe AI can do what they're doing so that they can get up and move around some.
perhaps vigorous exercise in the form of running from police, throwing molotov cocktails, and hand to hand fighting their shiny AI overlords robot assassins would keep them in better shape?
This is why I've long advocated for bed desks.
Eh. Ergonomically speaking, using a bed desk puts you in a poor posture for extended computer work. Your back is unsupported, your neck is craned downward, and your wrists and arms are likely unsupported as well. There might be some weird disruption of the brain's conditioning that the bed is for rest as well if you do this too much. Lotta people have a tough time falling asleep because of an inability to mentally "switch off" at night. Keeping work restricted to a desk area is a sort of magical mental separation that I like.
I work lying down with a pillow acting as a desk for my keyboard (I don't have to look at the screen as I use screen reader software) so I guess I don't have to worry about it. It hurts my back sitting for long hours so I found lying down to be more comfortable working from home :)
I had a bed desk with the monitor above me for about 9 months. It was a total gamechanger and I would definitely recommend it if you have the space. I don't have the space anymore, but one day I want to go back to that method of working.. no back or neck pain, more concentration
Likely the issue is related to circulation (or lack thereof), lack of exercise in key core muscle groups (including the heart), and nerve inflammation in spots where there is consistent pressure.
Notably, the bed is much worse for this than sitting (see bed sores, compartment syndrome, etc).
Notably, the bed is much worse for this than sitting (see bed sores, compartment syndrome, etc).
Way late on this and maybe this was a joke. But for what it's worth - the study categorizes sitting and lying down in the same category (sedentary).
Thank you for pointing that out in the study; my comment was indeed not totally serious, but I was wondering if sitting vs standing or laying made any difference.
if augmented reality glasses continue like they are, this could be very possible in the near future. an infinite array of displays as you lay down. a virtual keyboard might take some time to get used to though
My setup was modeled after the precogs’ workstations in Minority Report.
What you need is peripatetic programming.
You may be jesting, but I’d be seriously interested in solutions that let me input code fast while walking, preferably not looking like an idiot and not causing accidents.
Oh, having a minion who would type in dictated code doesn’t count.
Oh, having a minion who would type in dictated code doesn’t count.
I'm here for your DDR->keyboard mod.
Another reason against office work where essentially you sit all day.
On the other hand, I move a lot more doing the equivalent work in an office (kitchen and bathroom are farther, need to go to far flung conference rooms for meetings). Even more from the commute since I go by bicycle.
Instead of chatting about trivialities or sitting in endless meetings about upcoming meetings i go for a walk. That gives me the opportunity to plan my day ahead, stretches my legs, clears my eyes, lets me breath fresh air, greet a neighbour, and smell flowers. All in all that’s more time spent standing than if i were given the opportunity to do so only when going to the loo or walking towards … meeting rooms. Apparently it will also help me avoid dementia.
Guess I should buy a treadmill
Moderators, can you change this to the actual source study[1] and update the title?
[1] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/28094...