Tech layoffs: Google, Amazon, Snap and Zillow announce new job cuts(sfchronicle.com)
sfchronicle.com
Tech layoffs: Google, Amazon, Snap and Zillow announce new job cuts
https://www.sfchronicle.com/tech/article/tech-layoffs-google-amazon-zillow-18481421.php
69 comments
23 people at Zillow? I don't understand why that made news. But man that sucks for those 23 people.
Fear of layoffs has increased productivity over the last 6+ months. CEOs are coupling this with their forced return-to-office policies to paint a convenient story to further both of their goals - trimming the fat and getting back to a status quo they prefer.
You have a source for "fear of layoffs increases productivity"?
That hasn't really been my experience at companies I've worked at which experience layoffs. There's a huge morale hit from the layoff and survivors soldier on, but certainly not with renewed pep.
That hasn't really been my experience at companies I've worked at which experience layoffs. There's a huge morale hit from the layoff and survivors soldier on, but certainly not with renewed pep.
Yep - https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/us-productivity-surges-se...
From my experience it's quite obvious that people with families amidst layoffs and a difficult job market will work harder (or look like they are) to ensure they keep their jobs.
This is no longer a worker's market, meaning your labor has been devalued and competition has increased. Increased globalization and rising unemployment rates (latest report has a .5% increase) will spell disaster for those of us who keep the same attitudes we enjoyed the last couple decades. I'm just a worker like most people on here, but I'm really steeling myself for what's to come. I don't think now is the time to sit on your laurels and hope that your tenure is enough to keep your job around.
From my experience it's quite obvious that people with families amidst layoffs and a difficult job market will work harder (or look like they are) to ensure they keep their jobs.
This is no longer a worker's market, meaning your labor has been devalued and competition has increased. Increased globalization and rising unemployment rates (latest report has a .5% increase) will spell disaster for those of us who keep the same attitudes we enjoyed the last couple decades. I'm just a worker like most people on here, but I'm really steeling myself for what's to come. I don't think now is the time to sit on your laurels and hope that your tenure is enough to keep your job around.
> There's a huge morale hit from the layoff and survivors soldier on, but certainly not with renewed pep
can confirm here too, myself included.
can confirm here too, myself included.
> Fear of layoffs has increased productivity over the last 6+ months
That is never the case. You get the desperate types sucking up to management more perhaps. And people complain less about the snacks in kitchen. But people who already deliver start biding their time, looking around, and do the minimal needed to look acceptable.
That is never the case. You get the desperate types sucking up to management more perhaps. And people complain less about the snacks in kitchen. But people who already deliver start biding their time, looking around, and do the minimal needed to look acceptable.
Yeah, my experience is you don’t really want the people whose “productivity” goes up after a layoff. There are the people who don’t actually produce much, but are able to look like they do. Then there’s the people who used to provide the most value but are now dead inside. They are the one whose measurable productivity may go up, but the output is “wooden”, or maybe hollow, now. It lacks the creativity and big picture thinking that really moves the needle. So you may think you’re getting more output but it’s not impactful anymore.
The people who provide most of the value generally have options and will leave. At least this has beeny experience.
Great description, seeing this happen at BigCo…
Unprofitable companies will die regardless of theater. Commercial real estate will take the hit eventually. Structural demographics means labor supply shortages for at least a decade. Someone has to get paid to declare the King’s (collectively speaking) intent I suppose.
(disclosing bias, contributing to tech organizing efforts and scholar of the macro)
(disclosing bias, contributing to tech organizing efforts and scholar of the macro)
> Someone has to get paid to declare the King’s (collectively speaking) intent I suppose.
Can you elaborate on this?
Can you elaborate on this?
https://fortune.com/2023/09/05/amazon-andy-jassy-return-to-o... ("Amazon’s Andy Jassy shouldn’t make return-to-office decisions in an echo chamber of CEOs driven by feelings")
CEOs collectively saying "you must return to office because we say so" driven by feelings, status, etc with media doing the PR lifting.
CEOs collectively saying "you must return to office because we say so" driven by feelings, status, etc with media doing the PR lifting.
It'll be more than that. They just report on FTE's... not all the contractors and other part time people who they don't have to talk about. Design shops not getting contracts renewed... etc...
Snap also laid off 20 product managers. It sucks for those affected, but it’s not really a newsworthy layoff.
It's a pretty darn famous website/company.
Yes, but 23 is ~0.3% of their labor force, which is negligible. Their weekly natural employee churn is likely more than 23.
Clearly they're taking the piss out of the analysts and must be in good financial shape.
Like how Bill Gates amd Steve Balmer used to tell Wall St how bad things are.
Like how Bill Gates amd Steve Balmer used to tell Wall St how bad things are.
Then doesn't it make you wonder why even bother laying them off, if it's apparently so neglible?
They might not have.
“noting the layoffs were not necessarily cuts in total head count.”
The devil is in the details and I know I’m way too lazy to go through all that paperwork and find out. Looks like everyone else is too. :)
“noting the layoffs were not necessarily cuts in total head count.”
The devil is in the details and I know I’m way too lazy to go through all that paperwork and find out. Looks like everyone else is too. :)
The positions presumably got closed/not refilled. Zillow itself claims it’s part of normal audit process. Happens all the time and doesn’t make news.
23 people prob quit on a weekly basis.
> Google announced cuts within its Users & Products team, which is responsible for addressing user complaints regarding its consumer services
TIL that Google actually had a team addressing user complaints
TIL that Google actually had a team addressing user complaints
Seems like a reasonable place to cut staff since they don't address any of them.
They were replaced by useless bots long time ago. These guys must have been coasting for years before someone discovered them
On a Friday afternoon after a very long week, this gave me a really nice chuckle to end the week on. Thanks!
> I looked into it more deeply and I found that apparently what happened is that he was laid off five years ago and no one ever told him, but through some kind of glitch in the payroll department, he still gets a paycheck. So we just went ahead and fixed the glitch.
There was a saying at Twitter:
Beatings will continue until morale improves.
Beatings will continue until morale improves.
I think that saying way pre-dates even the existence of Twitter, but the point stands.
Similar phrases have been in circulation since at least the 1700s including a similar passage in Voltaire's Candide: "But in this country it is good to kill an Admiral from time to time to encourage the others."
In 1863 the words of Voltaire were alluded to in a memoir by Lord William Pitt Lennox who described the hazing experienced by pupils at the Westminster School in England: "...of having a flogging, to encourage the others, as a Frenchman said of the execution of Admiral Byng."
The first known reference to the specific wording "...until morale improves" dates to a 1961 US Navy comic:
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.c2582589&seq=737
After that cartoon was published we see many different variations on the phase pop up such as, "The layoffs will continue until morale improves" from 1964.
The first reference to the specific phrase, "The beatings will continue until morale improves" is from a 1989 Usenet post on soc.culture.nordic:
https://www.usenetarchives.com/view.php?id=soc.culture.nordi...
It's almost certainly older than that though because it's said as if it were a common phrase by that point.
In 1863 the words of Voltaire were alluded to in a memoir by Lord William Pitt Lennox who described the hazing experienced by pupils at the Westminster School in England: "...of having a flogging, to encourage the others, as a Frenchman said of the execution of Admiral Byng."
The first known reference to the specific wording "...until morale improves" dates to a 1961 US Navy comic:
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.c2582589&seq=737
After that cartoon was published we see many different variations on the phase pop up such as, "The layoffs will continue until morale improves" from 1964.
The first reference to the specific phrase, "The beatings will continue until morale improves" is from a 1989 Usenet post on soc.culture.nordic:
https://www.usenetarchives.com/view.php?id=soc.culture.nordi...
It's almost certainly older than that though because it's said as if it were a common phrase by that point.
It comes from the Navy insofar as I can tell:
"... and all liberty is cancelled until morale improves."
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.c2582589&seq=737
"... and all liberty is cancelled until morale improves."
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.c2582589&seq=737
Ohh yeah, definitely. I mentioned it in the context of perpetual layoffs. Almost every Friday, you’d have more people laid off because the company didn’t magically double its revenue since the previous Friday.
Maybe for Twitter, its re-tweets continue until morale improves.
I'm curious to know if you think the saying originated at Twitter?
Yes, elon founded EVERYTHING even twitter, and that saying
Zoomer moment. That line predates you.
Incredibly small numbers. This feels like the end of a cycle of tech layoffs.
Wait two years, there will be more.
I can't find any stats but just from the layoff news it seems like a lot of companies are doing more strategic cuts before the holiday season.
A lot of public companies do layoffs often. People seem surprised because huge tech companies are doing it now.
Yeah, automotive and insurance both are regular layoff industries. This is also a relatively small layoff, not like the huge "interest rates so the sky is falling" stuff we saw previously.
Merry Christmas!
>Google announced cuts within its Users & Products team, which is responsible for addressing user complaints regarding its consumer services.
Of course they did.
Of course they did.
As someone who got laid off a few months ago, that's sucks and good luck!
I wish we had some insight on offshoring numbers
These are all barely layoffs.
They increase uncertainty at the companies and indirectly at other companies so people wonder if their jobs are safe.
Got to love seeing the stick so clearly.
Got to love seeing the stick so clearly.
No but really, this is like 20 product managers at Snap (> 5,000 employees), Zillow with 2 dozen (> 5,000 employees), and some undisclosed small number from the others.
Employees can feel how they want to feel but most of my peers seem to have much a much greater fear layoffs than they should have. Many of those folks just haven't been laid off before. I've personally been laid off at least 3 times that I can recall. Once it's happened to you a few times that whole fear goes away, at least in my opinion.
"Wondering if your job is safe" is really not productive. There's no such thing as "safe" in at-will employment.
Employees can feel how they want to feel but most of my peers seem to have much a much greater fear layoffs than they should have. Many of those folks just haven't been laid off before. I've personally been laid off at least 3 times that I can recall. Once it's happened to you a few times that whole fear goes away, at least in my opinion.
"Wondering if your job is safe" is really not productive. There's no such thing as "safe" in at-will employment.
Companies announcing layoffs causes their stock price to increase. Merely having this in the headline was worth it for the companies involved and the newspaper that got clicks.
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This almost sounds like you're saying "they're barely people". I'm sure that's how the companies view them.
I think the poster is saying this sounds like theater. Why are they doing this. Otherwise the paper would be littered with such notices every day.
As someone who was recently laid off in the most non-empathetic way, I feel pretty strongly that these companies should have a lot of attention on them. If their strategy is to start doing more frequent so-called "micro"-layoffs to fly under the radar more, then it should get attention.
In my experience, layoffs are the most lazy but antagonistic way to treat those being laid off and the employees that remain. They are almost 100% due to either shareholder/investors wanting a quick cost savings and/or poor executive management and decisions. They don't have anything to do with the employees themselves, although the employees are the ones taking all the risk and receiving the consequences of others' actions.
In my experience, layoffs are the most lazy but antagonistic way to treat those being laid off and the employees that remain. They are almost 100% due to either shareholder/investors wanting a quick cost savings and/or poor executive management and decisions. They don't have anything to do with the employees themselves, although the employees are the ones taking all the risk and receiving the consequences of others' actions.
I like to code but what a terrible career. Guess who didn’t get laid off?
Those who don’t know how to code
Those who don’t know how to code
I dislike Google and Amazon as much as the next guy (which is a lot), but - why do you believe software developers get cut so much less often than other kinds of employees?
Also, the condescending tone is unbecoming.
Also, the condescending tone is unbecoming.
[deleted]
I’m a little bummed so my tone isn’t the best. I apologize for that
Software developers get cut more often because we don’t think about work politics. It’s one of those classic mistakes
Software developers get cut more often because we don’t think about work politics. It’s one of those classic mistakes
Do software developers get cut more often? My impression was that it was the opposite.
You two appear to be taking past each other?
I haven't been keeping my finger on the pulse of the issue recently, but in prior rounds of layoffs, engineering had been much less impacted than sales, marketing, HR etc.
I haven't been keeping my finger on the pulse of the issue recently, but in prior rounds of layoffs, engineering had been much less impacted than sales, marketing, HR etc.
It’s all pretty much the same right now. But I’m also posting in a bad mood so it’s likely
my fault. Economic turmoils. One day thing will turn around but for now, it’s a minefield no matter where you are
The article literally says Snap dropped 20 product managers...
I was always under the impression the significant majority of PMs of companies like that were either also software engineers themselves or at least knew enough about it to capably pretend to be one on a good day. Is that not the case?
Not necessarily. A PM should understand the sorts of things that SEs could do, but there are several PMs who can't code themselves, but could say what are important features that the product should have.
People who can’t code don’t get promoted to PMs or any sort of engineering manager because it’s too easy to lie
Eventually they all forget how to to (I did too) so that’s why it’s important to stay hands-on
Eventually they all forget how to to (I did too) so that’s why it’s important to stay hands-on
With luck they were devs before but it's all but a given.
Plenty of people who code get laid off. SDETS/automation QA engineers are software engineers, but aren't treated as such.