Why 3M stopped making floppy disks in the '90s(tedium.co)
tedium.co
Why 3M stopped making floppy disks in the '90s
https://tedium.co/2023/11/17/3m-floppy-disks-history/
78 comments
I like how they started off making sandpaper and that’s still the thing I buy from them to this day. Their Cubitron sandpaper is my go to for woodworking.
Their new stuff makes wood sanding almost an order of magnitude cheaper. https://youtu.be/NZDCRFi8dKY?si=ABQUh__nl9vSjor9
I wonder if they meant to price it so much lower than the competition...
I wonder if they meant to price it so much lower than the competition...
It's more expensive than most sandpaper. It's only cheaper when you take into account that it lasts longer, something that many consumers aren't great at doing. so I'm sure they had to split the difference.
Their SandBlaster flexible rubber is great for curved surfaces on 3d prints, aside from the fact that PLA is rather tiring to sand in general.
Totally, it's the good stuff. Same with their brand of scotch bright, it's good
All the comments are suggesting, roughly, that 3M is somehow "evil" for getting out of the floppy disk business.
But nobody uses floppy disks anymore! (This is a good thing.)
Why shouldn't they have gotten out before the complete collapse of the floppy-drive market?
But nobody uses floppy disks anymore! (This is a good thing.)
Why shouldn't they have gotten out before the complete collapse of the floppy-drive market?
I think people see 3M as evil because they have secret directives to not allow women to work certain jobs because 3M knows they'll be exposed to dangerous chemicals that can ruin their ability to have kids. And 3M knew the chemicals were dangerous generations ago, but didn't stop.
https://minnesotareformer.com/2022/12/15/toxic-3m-knew-its-c...
https://minnesotareformer.com/2022/12/15/toxic-3m-knew-its-c...
Then the comments here should come out and say that.
I don't get it either, and the storage business they spun off wasn't a big money maker and subsequently tanked with the rest of the industry.
Seems smart not to ride it down
Seems smart not to ride it down
TL;DR: 3M’s magnetic storage business was spun off into “Imation”, which then in turn died a slow death.
Imation…now that’s a brand I haven’t seen in a long time. Brings back memories!
Imation…now that’s a brand I haven’t seen in a long time. Brings back memories!
I misread that name as "Imitation" the first time I saw it. I was like "Who wants to buy imitation floppy disks?"
Reminds me of zipdiscs, I think they made those too.
Imation made the superdisk, competed with zipdisc and the drive could also read 3.5" "floppy" disks with the same formfactor.
Iomega was involved with 3M in Floptical development which is a tech ancestor to the Zip and LS120 formats.
I never understood why, as much as they both eventually succumbed to cheap CD-Rs and later flash drives, the Zip drive was more successful than the SuperDisk.
Did Iomega get some important OEM wins? I seem to recall more retail PCs advertised with Zip drives built in than SuperDisk, although you'd think "you don't need to add another $10 to the BOM for a regular floppy drive" would be an appealing message to large OEMs.
Or maybe Imation, spun off from 3M's massive financial muscle, couldn't compete as aggressively.
I've turned into a bit of a SuperDisk drive hoarder; I've got one in my main desktop-- and a stack of spares I've shucked from external enclosures.
Did Iomega get some important OEM wins? I seem to recall more retail PCs advertised with Zip drives built in than SuperDisk, although you'd think "you don't need to add another $10 to the BOM for a regular floppy drive" would be an appealing message to large OEMs.
Or maybe Imation, spun off from 3M's massive financial muscle, couldn't compete as aggressively.
I've turned into a bit of a SuperDisk drive hoarder; I've got one in my main desktop-- and a stack of spares I've shucked from external enclosures.
Wikipedia says zip drives were introduced in late 1994, and ls-120 were introduced in 1997.
Zip disks opened up a world of not terribly expensive storage much larger than floppies, but with similar characteristics. There wasn't any real competition, so lots of OEM deals happened, especially in school / library shared use situations.
The LS-120 is a nicer product, and it includes a high precision regular floppy drive, and it means you only need one 3.5" device... except that it had to compete with the entrenched zip disk that was almost as good. Plus around that time, cd-r drives were becoming affordable; media characteristics are different, but capacity was much larger.
Zip disks opened up a world of not terribly expensive storage much larger than floppies, but with similar characteristics. There wasn't any real competition, so lots of OEM deals happened, especially in school / library shared use situations.
The LS-120 is a nicer product, and it includes a high precision regular floppy drive, and it means you only need one 3.5" device... except that it had to compete with the entrenched zip disk that was almost as good. Plus around that time, cd-r drives were becoming affordable; media characteristics are different, but capacity was much larger.
Compatibility didn't matter as much because you couldn't count on people having either a Zip drive or an LS-120.
Iomega had the solution: a portable version of the Zip drive that connected to the parallel (printer) port. That thing was very popular for 'exchanging' software in those days ;)
> Did Iomega get some important OEM wins?
Yeah. Apple. Pretty significant.
Yeah. Apple. Pretty significant.
Zip disks were Iomega.
I have an Imation USB stick on my desk and use it weekly. There are dozens of us!
> Brings back memories!
Same and TIL it was actually spun off of MMM!
Same and TIL it was actually spun off of MMM!
3M always has the goal of 25% of revenue being from things they invented/started making in the last 5 years. They probably saw no future in making legacy items and sold it off...
Lowering revenue of things created more than 5 years ago helps with this goal.
Like other legacy companies with technology business at that time, the main motivation was probably making some quick cash by selling those business in order to finance stock buybacks and propel C-suite bonuses.
The Imation spinoff was good timing and worthwhile. The writing was on the wall. I wouldn't compare it to the rest of the 90s divestitures which abound with examples of management knee-capping their core business for the sake of following the latest fad.
Though based on Imation's (not) success, it was apparently a good idea.
And that's perfectly fine to do.
> 3M made the best ones
A very common quote. 3M seems to be the best at everything they do, including pollution.
A very common quote. 3M seems to be the best at everything they do, including pollution.
That's what probably made them the best. Everybody knows the horrible chemicals of yesteryear often led to a better quality product or UX, an uncomfortable truth.
For example, dishwasher soap used to be a lot more effective before they removed phosphates.
Mercury switch thermostats were infinitely more reliable than their successors and many are still working today 50 years later in older homes.
LED bulbs have been associated with migraine symptoms, and are all around terrible for reading.
Let's not forget the clusterfuck that is lead-free solder and just ask yourself why it's banned from aircraft and space applications where reliability is of utmost importance.
For example, dishwasher soap used to be a lot more effective before they removed phosphates.
Mercury switch thermostats were infinitely more reliable than their successors and many are still working today 50 years later in older homes.
LED bulbs have been associated with migraine symptoms, and are all around terrible for reading.
Let's not forget the clusterfuck that is lead-free solder and just ask yourself why it's banned from aircraft and space applications where reliability is of utmost importance.
> LED bulbs have been associated with migraine symptoms, and are all around terrible for reading.
Yeah, but fluorescents are worse, sometimes much worse, and have mercury; compact fluorescent was never good, but was highly pushed. Incadescents have very poor efficiency, but nice light, and not much in the way of hazardous materials. High quality LED bulbs can be made with good light outputs, I'm not sure that's true of fluorescent.
Yeah, but fluorescents are worse, sometimes much worse, and have mercury; compact fluorescent was never good, but was highly pushed. Incadescents have very poor efficiency, but nice light, and not much in the way of hazardous materials. High quality LED bulbs can be made with good light outputs, I'm not sure that's true of fluorescent.
You're kind of leaving out the whole "literally poisons the user or gives them cancer" part. I certainly wouldn't trade slightly better thermostats for a higher risk of heavy metals poisoning.
Also LED bulbs are great – they're much more efficient, and much cheaper. They can be great for reading, you just need to get one of the correct brightness. You can even do things like https://meaningness.com/sad-light-lumens which would bankrupt you (figuratively) if you used tungsten filament bulbs. Obviously you want to get LEDs of the right hue, and LEDs tend to be a bit colder than tungsten by default. Of course the upper range of tungesten is higher but this is irrelevant for all practical purposes (unless you're staging a West End or Broadway production).
Also LED bulbs are great – they're much more efficient, and much cheaper. They can be great for reading, you just need to get one of the correct brightness. You can even do things like https://meaningness.com/sad-light-lumens which would bankrupt you (figuratively) if you used tungsten filament bulbs. Obviously you want to get LEDs of the right hue, and LEDs tend to be a bit colder than tungsten by default. Of course the upper range of tungesten is higher but this is irrelevant for all practical purposes (unless you're staging a West End or Broadway production).
> You're kind of leaving out the whole "literally poisons the user or gives them cancer" part.
It was left out because it literally does not happen as you describe it. The state of California compels me to remind you that everything will give you cancer.
The risk is that these devices weren't being recycled properly, tossed in a landfill, and the effects were cumulative. Short of you smashing open the thermostat and drinking the mercury out of the bulb the risk posed to you, the user, was basically zero.
Yet we introduced mercury-containing CFLs as an environmentally-friendly alternative to incandescents.
What do you think is a more likely scenario? Being exposed to a blob of mercury sealed in a glass bulb inside a thermostat that is changed maybe once every 20 years or dropping a mercury containing CFL bulb on the floor?
I'm curious, when you set foot in an automobile are you worried about being poisoned by its lead-acid battery? You shouldn't, it's irrational.
It was left out because it literally does not happen as you describe it. The state of California compels me to remind you that everything will give you cancer.
The risk is that these devices weren't being recycled properly, tossed in a landfill, and the effects were cumulative. Short of you smashing open the thermostat and drinking the mercury out of the bulb the risk posed to you, the user, was basically zero.
Yet we introduced mercury-containing CFLs as an environmentally-friendly alternative to incandescents.
What do you think is a more likely scenario? Being exposed to a blob of mercury sealed in a glass bulb inside a thermostat that is changed maybe once every 20 years or dropping a mercury containing CFL bulb on the floor?
I'm curious, when you set foot in an automobile are you worried about being poisoned by its lead-acid battery? You shouldn't, it's irrational.
> You're kind of leaving out the whole "literally poisons the user or gives them cancer" part.
I thought 'horrible' was a suitable word choice for this part.
I thought 'horrible' was a suitable word choice for this part.
You might be if the difference in an accurate thermal signal is the difference in a jet engine blade expanding too much to self destruct while in flight :)
> lead-free solder and just ask yourself why it's banned from aircraft and space applications where reliability is of utmost importance.
Wow, is that really a thing? I would have assumed they'd use leaded solder if it made for more flexible/stable connections, and that technicians would just bear increased safety requirements (masks, ventilation, etc.). Once the craft launched into space the risk of the lead hurting anybody approaches zero. Even burning up due to a failed launch doesn't seem like it would cause any appreciable damage (at least not due to lead).
I figured spacecraft design demanded the best performance and reliability, regardless of possible human impacts (e.g. RTGs and their potential to rain down on people upon failed launch).
Wow, is that really a thing? I would have assumed they'd use leaded solder if it made for more flexible/stable connections, and that technicians would just bear increased safety requirements (masks, ventilation, etc.). Once the craft launched into space the risk of the lead hurting anybody approaches zero. Even burning up due to a failed launch doesn't seem like it would cause any appreciable damage (at least not due to lead).
I figured spacecraft design demanded the best performance and reliability, regardless of possible human impacts (e.g. RTGs and their potential to rain down on people upon failed launch).
The way I understand it, leaded solder is not really more harmful to those working with it. Temperatures used in soldering are below the point where vaporization is of concern, and you need good ventilation anyways, no matter the kind of solder, because of flux fumes. Wearing gloves, hand washing, room cleaning and avoid eating where soldering happens may be a good idea, to avoid ingesting lead dust, but I guess these are general rules of cleanliness that would be appropriate for safety-critical equipment regardless of the presence of lead. Plus, elemental lead is one of the least harmful forms of lead.
What I think the problem is and why they have banned lead in consumer electronics is about where all that lead solder ends up. Maybe some is recycled, but I guess most of it ends up in landfills, and a good fraction is just dumped in nature, possibly near drinking water supplies. A few boards won't do much harm, but millions of tons of e-waste will.
That's why I believe lead solder is still used in the aerospace industry, because it is only a small fraction of all the electronics. It is very critical, you really don't want tin whiskers to cause short circuits, a problem with lead-free solder. And if needed it is easier to impose rules regarding waste management in such a highly regulated field than in mass produced consumer goods.
What I think the problem is and why they have banned lead in consumer electronics is about where all that lead solder ends up. Maybe some is recycled, but I guess most of it ends up in landfills, and a good fraction is just dumped in nature, possibly near drinking water supplies. A few boards won't do much harm, but millions of tons of e-waste will.
That's why I believe lead solder is still used in the aerospace industry, because it is only a small fraction of all the electronics. It is very critical, you really don't want tin whiskers to cause short circuits, a problem with lead-free solder. And if needed it is easier to impose rules regarding waste management in such a highly regulated field than in mass produced consumer goods.
Note the group who publishes that.
"The Consortium represents a membership of more than 90 legal entities involved in the mining, smelting, refining and recycling of lead, as well as manufacturers of lead compounds and producers of lead-based automotive and industrial batteries."
Aerospace was exempt from the lead solder ban for 12 years, ending in 2018.
"The Consortium represents a membership of more than 90 legal entities involved in the mining, smelting, refining and recycling of lead, as well as manufacturers of lead compounds and producers of lead-based automotive and industrial batteries."
Aerospace was exempt from the lead solder ban for 12 years, ending in 2018.
The problem isn’t the lead itself, it’s the phenomenon of tin whiskering that can happen with some Pb-free solder alloys where metallic hair-like structures grow from the solder and cause arcs or short circuits.
This is one such example of a failure in space due to tin whiskers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_IV
This is one such example of a failure in space due to tin whiskers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_IV
It also requires a little bit of specialised knowledge to manufacture things correctly.
(It's much better now - people know more and the solder is better, but 20 years ago this was a huge issue that sent many devices to landfill)
(It's much better now - people know more and the solder is better, but 20 years ago this was a huge issue that sent many devices to landfill)
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The plutonium from the RTG power cells is much more concerning. How many atoms of plutonium do you have to inhale to get cancer?
I built a few identical fidget-spinner toy kits using either leaded and lead-free solder to decide which type I should keep buying from then on, the leaded stuff was admittedly a tiny bit easier to work with and usually left a slightly shinier (better looking) surface, but not to an adequate degree to justify any real risk (or even continual worry) of brain damage et cetera from voluntarily raising the lead level of my home. Your comment seems unbalanced, to me.
Just because it works for you doesn't mean it's fine for everyone, and assuming this without research is...brave?
Leaded solder reduces the risk of tin whisker growth which can over time cause shorts - catastrophic in any safety critical equipment.
https://nepp.nasa.gov/WHISKER/background/index.htm
Leaded solder reduces the risk of tin whisker growth which can over time cause shorts - catastrophic in any safety critical equipment.
https://nepp.nasa.gov/WHISKER/background/index.htm
am well aware that leaded solder still has some niche applications, but the comment i replied to called lead-free a "clusterfuck" without any regard for the huge public health benefits.
i hope you agree it's good that e-waste isn't toxic.
i hope you agree it's good that e-waste isn't toxic.
E-waste is still toxic, now you have to ask yourself if increasing e-waste due to poorly-performing circuits and electromigration (look it up) is worth making some parts of it less toxic. I don't have the answer, but you don't either.
Lead free solder was responsible for the Xbox 360 red ring of death.
Millions of units of e-waste.
Hardly a niche problem.
More recent studies have shown that all lead free solders will eventually develop tin whispers and fail.
For devices with a 2 or 3 year lifespan (e.g. cellphones), sure, fine, whatever.
For electronics that should last a long time, e.g. washing machines, dishwashers, thermostats, ovens, microwaves, lead free ensures e-waste.
Millions of units of e-waste.
Hardly a niche problem.
More recent studies have shown that all lead free solders will eventually develop tin whispers and fail.
For devices with a 2 or 3 year lifespan (e.g. cellphones), sure, fine, whatever.
For electronics that should last a long time, e.g. washing machines, dishwashers, thermostats, ovens, microwaves, lead free ensures e-waste.
I don't think a tiny bit of easier working with it is why lead based would be used in aerospace ;)
Shininess? Who cares.
Now I know nothing about which is better in these regards but:
What would you look for in aerospace applications?
I would imagine things like:
Proneness to cold joints. Ease of detecting cold solder joints. Longevity (in general). Longevity under the stresses of aerospace realities. Etc.
Do you have data on that?
Shininess? Who cares.
Now I know nothing about which is better in these regards but:
What would you look for in aerospace applications?
I would imagine things like:
Proneness to cold joints. Ease of detecting cold solder joints. Longevity (in general). Longevity under the stresses of aerospace realities. Etc.
Do you have data on that?
> Shininess? Who cares.
Those who care about the quality of the solder joint. You need to get a shiny surface, because anything else is a strong indicator that the solder has been contaminated/oxidized, and if it is such at the surface level, it may well be on the contact points aswell. Im not saying its a 100% garantuee, but if you look at failed solder joints, ESPECIALLY handmade ones, nearly all of them are the ones that were not coming out shiny. If its not shiny, its a fail
Those who care about the quality of the solder joint. You need to get a shiny surface, because anything else is a strong indicator that the solder has been contaminated/oxidized, and if it is such at the surface level, it may well be on the contact points aswell. Im not saying its a 100% garantuee, but if you look at failed solder joints, ESPECIALLY handmade ones, nearly all of them are the ones that were not coming out shiny. If its not shiny, its a fail
You are correct for lead based solder, you want shiny to be sure. As far as I am aware however, shininess is "not a thing" with lead free solder.
You've mis-interpreted why I commented.
aerospace is a small part of what soldering is used for, globally. the majority is consumer electronics.
keeping lead out of people's homes is a valuable public-health move, not a needless "clusterfuck", as the comment I replied to said.
aerospace is a small part of what soldering is used for, globally. the majority is consumer electronics.
keeping lead out of people's homes is a valuable public-health move, not a needless "clusterfuck", as the comment I replied to said.
Fair enough though I wonder how a user would come in contact with lead from solder in say my laptop? Genuinely curious.
As a hobbyist I use lead free and I bet the rosin flux burning off if I make a boo boo is bad either way, lead or not. It's in both types.
About worker health in consumer electronics sure we can talk. But let's include the flux question in that too.
As a hobbyist I use lead free and I bet the rosin flux burning off if I make a boo boo is bad either way, lead or not. It's in both types.
About worker health in consumer electronics sure we can talk. But let's include the flux question in that too.
Are you planning to eat your laptop? If no, your risk is basically zero.
As for your hobbyist work, the flux used in lead-free solder is actually worse if you breathe it in:
It was widely believed that the move to lead-free soldering would create more environmentally-friendly conditions; however because of the higher temperatures required and extra flux used lead-free soldering smoke emissions actually contain more fine dust particles which are easier to breathe in. As Fig.1 shows, these penetrate further into the lungs than pollen or asbestos, reaching and blocking the alveoli.
https://uk.farnell.com/essential-considerations-for-managing...
As for your hobbyist work, the flux used in lead-free solder is actually worse if you breathe it in:
It was widely believed that the move to lead-free soldering would create more environmentally-friendly conditions; however because of the higher temperatures required and extra flux used lead-free soldering smoke emissions actually contain more fine dust particles which are easier to breathe in. As Fig.1 shows, these penetrate further into the lungs than pollen or asbestos, reaching and blocking the alveoli.
https://uk.farnell.com/essential-considerations-for-managing...
i wonder if you really got leadfree when you can say that. a leaded tin like 60/40 is infinitely nicer to work with than leadfree ones, and I have tried MANY, cheap and expensive leadfree solders, none come even remotely close.
Sure, dont inhale the smoke, dont eat it, wash your hands after handling the solder, you'll be fine. Want to do more for your health? chances are that getting a little more exercise is a hugely more impactful thing to do (and no, I do not know how much you exercise, but many people today are way too sedentary, myself included)
Sure, dont inhale the smoke, dont eat it, wash your hands after handling the solder, you'll be fine. Want to do more for your health? chances are that getting a little more exercise is a hugely more impactful thing to do (and no, I do not know how much you exercise, but many people today are way too sedentary, myself included)
Source: I made a fidget spinner. You can't make this stuff up
it was a cheap kit, i made ten, for a decent sample size, and for practice. thanks for your kind attitude.
Be kind to those who want to discuss things, not indulge you in your hobby talk.
He wasn't indulging in 'hobby talk'. He did a comparative assessment of solders using a (presumably cheap and simple) kit. The example just so happened to include a 'hobby'
You're taking the piss, and then bizarrely suggesting they should be kind to you.
You're taking the piss, and then bizarrely suggesting they should be kind to you.
"Your comment seems unbalanced, to me."
> Mercury switch thermostats were infinitely more reliable than their successors and many are still working today 50 years later in older homes.
Oh come on dude. Those things are crap and if you somehow break it, you end up with mercury on the floor. I watched a mover do just this when I was a kid. They were too careless with the sofa and knocked the thermostat off the wall, breaking the mercury vial inside it. It was a stupid piece of crap that had an electromechanical timer that made a ton of noise anyway.
The electronic ones are incredibly simple. The one in my house is probably 30 years old and still works fine.
Oh come on dude. Those things are crap and if you somehow break it, you end up with mercury on the floor. I watched a mover do just this when I was a kid. They were too careless with the sofa and knocked the thermostat off the wall, breaking the mercury vial inside it. It was a stupid piece of crap that had an electromechanical timer that made a ton of noise anyway.
The electronic ones are incredibly simple. The one in my house is probably 30 years old and still works fine.
The electronic ones are, generally, fine.
The in-between generation of wound metal that changes how it bends based on temperature, those were too fiddly and prone to losing calibration.
The in-between generation of wound metal that changes how it bends based on temperature, those were too fiddly and prone to losing calibration.
>LED bulbs have been associated with migraine symptoms, and are all around terrible for reading
Are they? on the other hand they use less energy, last longer. They aren't exactly worse.
Cling film on the other hand. That's rubbish now.
Are they? on the other hand they use less energy, last longer. They aren't exactly worse.
Cling film on the other hand. That's rubbish now.
This is false. Phosphates were used to combat the effects of hard water, not to clean better.
Hard water can be dealt with easily with salt, 3-in-1 tablets, etc.
Hard water can be dealt with easily with salt, 3-in-1 tablets, etc.
Mercury switches were reliable, but were they accurate? What's the tolerance of a bimetallic spring? How about repeatability?
They are surprisingly accurate, actually. It's an effect of the physical properties of the metal, which we can measure quite precisely. I couldn't immediately find an exact figure.
Repeatability is not so great, but mostly because the mechanisms are designed as cheaply as possible. But typically it's within a couple of degrees. It turns out to not be that big of an issue because you want a few degrees of hysteresis in a thermostat.
Repeatability is not so great, but mostly because the mechanisms are designed as cheaply as possible. But typically it's within a couple of degrees. It turns out to not be that big of an issue because you want a few degrees of hysteresis in a thermostat.
LED lighting has been associated with migraines? Mind linking some studies? I'm very interested in this.
> dishwasher soap used to be a lot more effective before they removed phosphates
was it? https://www.consumerreports.org/media-room/press-releases/20... says that several phosphate-free formulations were "Very Good".
> LED bulbs have been associated with migraine symptoms, and are all around terrible for reading.
some cheap LED bulbs have issues, but they're generally better than fluorescent bulbs which contain the horrible chemicals.
> Let's not forget the clusterfuck that is lead-free solder and just ask yourself why it's banned from aircraft and space applications where reliability is of utmost importance.
is it? a Google search for "avionics lead solder" finds Boeing saying in 2005 that "consumer electronic industry trends will force aerospace to adapt to an evolving lead-free transition", a "US Tech" saying "The global aircraft and aerospace market is moving toward 100 percent lead-free solder", an "AIM Solder" which "offers many tin-lead & lead-free RMA products suitable for the military & aerospace sector", and one source saying "Tin-lead alloy solder [...] has been used to assemble the avionics of every aircraft currently flying", by... "Lead Matters".
while environmentally-friendly replacements sometimes have downsides, categorically painting them as a lot/infinitely/terribly/clusterfuck worse is just "gubmint takin away our freedoms". yes, lead-free gasoline did require some engine design improvements, but it would be insane and downright inhumane to keep using it for a small increase in octane rating.
was it? https://www.consumerreports.org/media-room/press-releases/20... says that several phosphate-free formulations were "Very Good".
> LED bulbs have been associated with migraine symptoms, and are all around terrible for reading.
some cheap LED bulbs have issues, but they're generally better than fluorescent bulbs which contain the horrible chemicals.
> Let's not forget the clusterfuck that is lead-free solder and just ask yourself why it's banned from aircraft and space applications where reliability is of utmost importance.
is it? a Google search for "avionics lead solder" finds Boeing saying in 2005 that "consumer electronic industry trends will force aerospace to adapt to an evolving lead-free transition", a "US Tech" saying "The global aircraft and aerospace market is moving toward 100 percent lead-free solder", an "AIM Solder" which "offers many tin-lead & lead-free RMA products suitable for the military & aerospace sector", and one source saying "Tin-lead alloy solder [...] has been used to assemble the avionics of every aircraft currently flying", by... "Lead Matters".
while environmentally-friendly replacements sometimes have downsides, categorically painting them as a lot/infinitely/terribly/clusterfuck worse is just "gubmint takin away our freedoms". yes, lead-free gasoline did require some engine design improvements, but it would be insane and downright inhumane to keep using it for a small increase in octane rating.
I often think that old, high quality goods (like cars, audio gear, plastics, furniture, colours that don’t fade) were made with materials or processors that aren’t acceptable today. Which kind of makes me sad for the future and sad for the past.
> I often think that old, high quality goods
Survivor bias plays a huge role as well. No one remembers the dishwasher that broke after 6 months 30 years ago when they were 5. Everyone remembers the one that kept on chugging for 40 years at grandma’s.
> like cars,
OTOH modern cars are much more robust and their engines last much longer with lower maintenance. It’s infuriating when there is an electronic issue and we need to change the computer, but overall integration has its benefits.
> audio gear,
CAD improved a lot. We can now have better speakers much smaller than what we used to have. Much cheaper as well, because through computer design we can make much more complex parts with better properties. It’s the same thing with photography. Modern lenses are insane if you ask someone who’s done it since the 1970s. They have more than 10 optical elements, have insane reach (hand holding a 300mm was very impractical except in the brightest weather).
What we have in our phones is mind boggling if you think about it a little (both optics and speakers).
> plastics, furniture,
A lot of furniture was crap back then as well. It’s interesting because to me the epitome of rubbish furniture that disintegrates over time with horrible discoloured plastic is the 1979s and 1980s. Any random book case you can get now from Ikea is miles better.
> colours that don’t fade
We have loads of synthetic pigments that are much better than what we used to have, without arsenic, uranium, lead, or cadmium.
> Which kind of makes me sad for the future and sad for the past.
That’s normal, and there are a lot of things that are rubbish now. But let’s try to keep a clear view and some critical thinking: a lot of things are also much better.
Survivor bias plays a huge role as well. No one remembers the dishwasher that broke after 6 months 30 years ago when they were 5. Everyone remembers the one that kept on chugging for 40 years at grandma’s.
> like cars,
OTOH modern cars are much more robust and their engines last much longer with lower maintenance. It’s infuriating when there is an electronic issue and we need to change the computer, but overall integration has its benefits.
> audio gear,
CAD improved a lot. We can now have better speakers much smaller than what we used to have. Much cheaper as well, because through computer design we can make much more complex parts with better properties. It’s the same thing with photography. Modern lenses are insane if you ask someone who’s done it since the 1970s. They have more than 10 optical elements, have insane reach (hand holding a 300mm was very impractical except in the brightest weather).
What we have in our phones is mind boggling if you think about it a little (both optics and speakers).
> plastics, furniture,
A lot of furniture was crap back then as well. It’s interesting because to me the epitome of rubbish furniture that disintegrates over time with horrible discoloured plastic is the 1979s and 1980s. Any random book case you can get now from Ikea is miles better.
> colours that don’t fade
We have loads of synthetic pigments that are much better than what we used to have, without arsenic, uranium, lead, or cadmium.
> Which kind of makes me sad for the future and sad for the past.
That’s normal, and there are a lot of things that are rubbish now. But let’s try to keep a clear view and some critical thinking: a lot of things are also much better.
Asbestos, lead, arsenic, lots of people died very horrible deaths due to these "unacceptable" materials.
That's presumably what the last 4 or 5 words of the post were alluding to.
That would be the military...
Someone was like: “Bro is this even tape?” And 3M was like “oh shit”