Apple workers deserve iDorms as good as the technology(ft.com)
ft.com
Apple workers deserve iDorms as good as the technology
https://www.ft.com/content/6f6e3e62-c06c-42b3-8b1b-a4dabbf2334c
56 comments
I think even the most benevolent companies would find their role as town owner would present a lot of unanticipated and difficult conflicts.
It's just a situation everyone should want to avoid.
It's just a situation everyone should want to avoid.
The UK disproves your point. Vast amount of todays housing stock are ex company towns, a point which is quite clear in the article.
Company towns don’t always remain company towns.
Company towns don’t always remain company towns.
Vast amounts of America are former company towns as well. Former being why everyone is so convinced they're a bad idea.
Company towns are still pretty common in China. My wife’s aunt lives at one in the middle of nowhere hunan, although this is the power sector. Lots of employers provide housing to employees, especially for lower wage jobs. Though this housing is often haphazard (eg waitresses converting the dining area into a sleeping area after closing).
Surely China has along way to go here, although things are much better than they were 20 years ago.
Surely China has along way to go here, although things are much better than they were 20 years ago.
If you define your HOA as being, in almost every way, a company with the intention of maintaining it’s brand… half of America is company towns.
This is not what people mean when they say a "company town". It's about that same company being your employer.
True, but my point is that the unethical company town model, and our modern system of HOAs that are typically outsourced to management companies, is an increasingly fine line.
Is it though? HOAs are close to becoming the same company as your employer?
It's not about companies owning and renting out/selling property, it's about directly tying your housing to a specific employer.
It's not about companies owning and renting out/selling property, it's about directly tying your housing to a specific employer.
If you are a tech worker in America who is in the progress of immigrating from India, is in America on a work visa, and can only afford rent in San Francisco from your tech salary; the only difference is formality.
But if there was a formal recognition that the housing is employer-provided, there might be a greater incentive to uphold standards than letting the employee live under a bridge.
But if there was a formal recognition that the housing is employer-provided, there might be a greater incentive to uphold standards than letting the employee live under a bridge.
Problem really isn't during the employment. It comes after it ends. If you tie your housing to being employed, it can mean that you will get kicked out if you quit. And this could happen in multitude of ways.
People in USA already worry about losing their health care, but what about also losing your home?
People in USA already worry about losing their health care, but what about also losing your home?
Not a greater concern than the possibility of losing your rented apartment from eviction; or losing your home over unpaid HOA assessments.
As long as the mindset is right that this is free rent, it might not be worse than many apartments in the area that can only be afforded through that job anyway.
As long as the mindset is right that this is free rent, it might not be worse than many apartments in the area that can only be afforded through that job anyway.
But it isn't just free rent. You have to move when you get fired. You can't just start paying rent and stay.
If you have a family, it’s terrible. If you’re single and your alternative is a SF “pod” special, I’d accept a company town tomorrow.
HOAs outsource local government. People once frustrated with their local city council now turn their attention to their HOA reps, who are now responsible for maintaining their roads and sidewalks.
What exactly are you decrying as "dangerous" here?
Company towns are a thing that have existed in the past, and the results are very well documented.
It's similar to company scrip (a thing Facebook tried to reintroduce a few years back), and in fact the two concepts support each other.
The net effect of both is to give the company extraordinary control of the lives of its employees beyond the time they're actually at work, and that power lets them functionally reduce compensation, and limit the freedom to work elsewhere (you can't get a new job without also moving, but it's also been made difficult to live outside of the company town while working for the company, etc).
It's similar to company scrip (a thing Facebook tried to reintroduce a few years back), and in fact the two concepts support each other.
The net effect of both is to give the company extraordinary control of the lives of its employees beyond the time they're actually at work, and that power lets them functionally reduce compensation, and limit the freedom to work elsewhere (you can't get a new job without also moving, but it's also been made difficult to live outside of the company town while working for the company, etc).
The existential risks that residents of a company town face. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_town
Historically, companies would build towns for their workers, and pay them in company script that is only valid at company stores. This was effectively a fancy form of slavery with all that entails.
Sorry, this is a pet peeve of mine. The term is "Scrip"[1], not "script"
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrip
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrip
Could be autocarrot - I know in the past for me this was a "correction" they wanted to make, though just now in this thread I didn't have to fight it.
Not to be confused with the crips.
scrip*
I love how some insecure asses downvoted a simple question. Way to elevate the site.
The precarious nature of some workers lives doesn’t seem much different is their landlord is their employer or another corporation or a private capitalist.
I also don’t see how this is more dangerous than the status quo.
I also don’t see how this is more dangerous than the status quo.
It could be lot worse. At least with other capitalist there is some competition.
But with company owned housing you could have setup of them giving discounts to employees. And this discount effectively being part of compensation.
So when you change job, you would need much higher change in compensation or you would have to leave...
Tenant protections of not being immediately kicked out when you are laid-off or resign could be circumvented in many ways...
But with company owned housing you could have setup of them giving discounts to employees. And this discount effectively being part of compensation.
So when you change job, you would need much higher change in compensation or you would have to leave...
Tenant protections of not being immediately kicked out when you are laid-off or resign could be circumvented in many ways...
Worth mentioning that Walt Disney intended EPCOT to be his version of the company town. He only reluctantly agreed to build the Magic Kingdom as a way to fund it. After he died before the latter was finished, the board decided they didn’t want to be in the town-running business. Nevertheless, the company retained the autonomy the state of Florida had granted Walt as a condition of going ahead with the project. Florida gave Disney full municipal control, retaining only the power to tax. Today, as a result of DeSantis’ campaign against Disney, the ultimate fate of the Reedy Creek Improvement District is in the courts’ hands.
Olivetti had a work & live campus, starting in the 50s of the last century: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/28/t-magazine/olivetti-typew...
Steinway & Sons piano company built a company town, which is now part of Astoria, NYC. I lived for a few years in a house that was for factory workers, streets west of me were bigger houses intended for management.
https://americanhistory.si.edu/documentsgallery/exhibitions/...
https://americanhistory.si.edu/documentsgallery/exhibitions/...
Ooh I love my lettera 32!
This isn't an Apple facility, and it will undoubtedly make products for rivals.
I do think Foxconn should do what's proposed here, however.
What Apple should have done recently is stepped up to give actors and writers the protections they need to keep their professions viable. They would have been the only media company back in business for a time, and would have set an example that they could easily have afforded to set.
But no... they sat back and let the people who create their media get screwed again. That's pretty disgraceful.
I do think Foxconn should do what's proposed here, however.
What Apple should have done recently is stepped up to give actors and writers the protections they need to keep their professions viable. They would have been the only media company back in business for a time, and would have set an example that they could easily have afforded to set.
But no... they sat back and let the people who create their media get screwed again. That's pretty disgraceful.
I don't care if it's a company town. Affordable housing is far more important than any risk posed by company towns in our current market. If the government isn't willing to take drastic measures to increase the supply of housing, then we should applaud any attempts by industry to fill the gaps. We need to crash the housing market, with no survivors.
I applaud your sentiment. If I didn’t already fear a general collusion from the big players I too could get behind this idea. Sadly, the logical outcome of company towns in the kind of monopsonistic environment we’re in in the US is that there will be even less incentive to making housing easier to build outside of these company towns, and wages will continue to be depressed, with less mobility for workers.
You're worrying about second or third order problems when we have a massive problem right now. There are no solutions to housing affordability that don't have risks or hurt someone. Not acting and allowing for this insane market to continue would be far worse than dealing with problematic company towns in the future.
Apple cares a lot about its corporate employees but that does not extend to its manufacturing partners like Foxconn and Pegatron (or the hundreds of parts suppliers).
They go a long way to keep photos and documentation of conditions in manufacturing facilities private and only show off staged facilities in Cupertino etc.
They go a long way to keep photos and documentation of conditions in manufacturing facilities private and only show off staged facilities in Cupertino etc.
You do realize that Foxconn is a separate company that also produces stuff for such small companies as Samsung, Sony, Microsoft, Google...?
It looks like Apple already goes above and beyond in comparison to many western companies
It looks like Apple already goes above and beyond in comparison to many western companies
Arguably Foxconn is in the business of being a legal firewall between a company's factories and their management. Presumably the reason why Apple hasn't gone Fully Vertically Integrated (which they certainly have the resources to accomplish) is the savings seen by going vertical wouldn't improve shareholder value/risk enough to offset the cost.
Apple did manufacture the previous generation of Mac Pros in Texas, so it can be done, perhaps at higher labor cost (aligned with your point, I believe). I had one. Kind of wish i kept it.
Isn’t “fully vertically integrated” an euphemism for “trust”?
Apple can demand better conditions, they can certainly afford to pay for them.
They do that. They document infractions and corrective actions in their annual supplier responsibility report.
https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/pdf/Apple_SR_2...
https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/pdf/Apple_SR_2...
Apple does demand better conditions.
For the last decade+ most reports of child/illegal labor conditions in factories that manufacture apple products have sourced apple's own supplier audits, which is super great as a message for other corporations: if you audit companies and discover and report illegal conditions (and terminate contracts due to them, which apple also does) all the reporting will be "this company employed child labor"[1] etc.
You also get failure to understand scale of companies like Foxconn. Recall a few years back when everyone was attacking apple due to a spate of suicides at Foxconn factories, despite the suicide rate being lower than the rest of china, and iirc most US cities. The problem being the reports were "X suicides at this factory" but not including "this single factory has 400 thousand employees". On the plus side the reporting meant apple forced Foxconn to address this "problem", but that involved things like suicide nets, so I don't know if that included steps like providing counseling, real therapists, etc.
So most of the suppliers/manufacturers apple uses (esp. Foxconn) work for _every_ tech company, but apple is the only tech company that does supplier audits, and requires suppliers to compensate victims (and for kids, requires them to them support the kid's future education), and so is the only company providing regular reports that let reporters produce sourced articles saying "Apple employs children". Note of course that if apple and google use the same supplier, but apple is the one doing an audit, and publishing a report, those articles will not reference any other company.
Now all that aside I want to be clear: do not think I am saying (nor think) Apple is a spuriously "good" tech company. Most studies basically say all corporations are psychopaths if you analyze them as if they're person, and Apple is a corporation. 15-20 years ago there were lots of reports of apple suppliers being terrible (abuse, child labor, etc, etc) which apply to every other company but articles about apple get press so that's the reporting. It would be naive to think that absent that reporting apple would have started its audit system. The reality is Apple is more acutely aware of (and maybe impacted by?) its market image than other tech companies, so Apple started audits to ensure it does not get that bad publicity. That reducing child labor, reducing worker abuse, etc is a "good" thing for the victims is just happenstance in this context.
It's depressing that despite the clear overlap in suppliers only a few companies perform any audits (a quick check of the big tech cos seemed to only find apple and google publishing supply change reports, though there's a lot of overlap between the two).
[1] The child labor thing is fun when you look at the republican states in the US that are aggressively pushing for child labor to protect those poor businesses from the invisible hand of the market requiring them to pay market rates for labor.
For the last decade+ most reports of child/illegal labor conditions in factories that manufacture apple products have sourced apple's own supplier audits, which is super great as a message for other corporations: if you audit companies and discover and report illegal conditions (and terminate contracts due to them, which apple also does) all the reporting will be "this company employed child labor"[1] etc.
You also get failure to understand scale of companies like Foxconn. Recall a few years back when everyone was attacking apple due to a spate of suicides at Foxconn factories, despite the suicide rate being lower than the rest of china, and iirc most US cities. The problem being the reports were "X suicides at this factory" but not including "this single factory has 400 thousand employees". On the plus side the reporting meant apple forced Foxconn to address this "problem", but that involved things like suicide nets, so I don't know if that included steps like providing counseling, real therapists, etc.
So most of the suppliers/manufacturers apple uses (esp. Foxconn) work for _every_ tech company, but apple is the only tech company that does supplier audits, and requires suppliers to compensate victims (and for kids, requires them to them support the kid's future education), and so is the only company providing regular reports that let reporters produce sourced articles saying "Apple employs children". Note of course that if apple and google use the same supplier, but apple is the one doing an audit, and publishing a report, those articles will not reference any other company.
Now all that aside I want to be clear: do not think I am saying (nor think) Apple is a spuriously "good" tech company. Most studies basically say all corporations are psychopaths if you analyze them as if they're person, and Apple is a corporation. 15-20 years ago there were lots of reports of apple suppliers being terrible (abuse, child labor, etc, etc) which apply to every other company but articles about apple get press so that's the reporting. It would be naive to think that absent that reporting apple would have started its audit system. The reality is Apple is more acutely aware of (and maybe impacted by?) its market image than other tech companies, so Apple started audits to ensure it does not get that bad publicity. That reducing child labor, reducing worker abuse, etc is a "good" thing for the victims is just happenstance in this context.
It's depressing that despite the clear overlap in suppliers only a few companies perform any audits (a quick check of the big tech cos seemed to only find apple and google publishing supply change reports, though there's a lot of overlap between the two).
[1] The child labor thing is fun when you look at the republican states in the US that are aggressively pushing for child labor to protect those poor businesses from the invisible hand of the market requiring them to pay market rates for labor.
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Can't read the article as I don't have a subscription, so maybe they talk more specifics in the article, but I'd say that the housing shortage in places like the bay area is so acute that I think even a flawed approach that builds more housing is better than alternative proposals that never happen.
St. Peter don't you call me, 'cause I can't go.
I owe my soul to the company store.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRh0QiXy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRh0QiXy
The complete unhinged insanity to pine for a _modern_ scrip town in India owned by a Chinese company that makes disposable consumer goods mostly for The United States.
Which is all bad enough, but then to paint historical company towns as enduring well meaning projects of generous "philanthrocapitalists" without honestly considering their negative consequences or the fact that none of them would legally be allowed to exist in this country is vomit inducing.
Another morally vaporous article by an apologist for the neo-colonialists, Andrew Hill.
Which is all bad enough, but then to paint historical company towns as enduring well meaning projects of generous "philanthrocapitalists" without honestly considering their negative consequences or the fact that none of them would legally be allowed to exist in this country is vomit inducing.
Another morally vaporous article by an apologist for the neo-colonialists, Andrew Hill.
Foxconn is not Chinese. It is Taiwanese.
Your stance is essentially: “how dare they give jobs and homes to those workers!”
Company towns are like baking a fancy baked good. If someone else gets it wrong or you get it wrong, doesn’t mean you can’t try again.
Your stance is essentially: “how dare they give jobs and homes to those workers!”
Company towns are like baking a fancy baked good. If someone else gets it wrong or you get it wrong, doesn’t mean you can’t try again.
> Your stance is essentially: “how dare they give jobs and homes to those workers!”
Precisely. Workers get jobs and earn money. Companies stay out of the rest.
> Company towns are like baking a fancy baked good.
What's that old phrase.. "to make a good omelette you have to break a few eggs?" The import of which could never be greater. These are workers lives you're playing around with, without supervision, and often with an underprivileged and thus less educated class that may not be sophisticated enough to understand the type of exchange they're entering into.
> doesn’t mean you can’t try again.
Well.. it is India. There are billions. Your failed experiments cost you nothing; apparently, and neither are you obligated to take note of history.
Precisely. Workers get jobs and earn money. Companies stay out of the rest.
> Company towns are like baking a fancy baked good.
What's that old phrase.. "to make a good omelette you have to break a few eggs?" The import of which could never be greater. These are workers lives you're playing around with, without supervision, and often with an underprivileged and thus less educated class that may not be sophisticated enough to understand the type of exchange they're entering into.
> doesn’t mean you can’t try again.
Well.. it is India. There are billions. Your failed experiments cost you nothing; apparently, and neither are you obligated to take note of history.
They could make Apple branded living pods for them. Like those cute little dystopian pod hotels.
iPods, if you will. Apple should just give them all iPods.
iPods, if you will. Apple should just give them all iPods.
When was the last time Apple launched a new product with the i prefix?
They’d be called Apple Pods.
(Yes I know it’s meant to be a joke but it’s too outdated to be funny.)
The article should have suggested Apple Dorms rather than iDorms.
They’d be called Apple Pods.
(Yes I know it’s meant to be a joke but it’s too outdated to be funny.)
The article should have suggested Apple Dorms rather than iDorms.
HomePods?
Depending on your dialect, iPad would work as well. Apple is nothing if not a reliable source of dark humour.
HomePad!
pod people? as in "invasion of the body snatchers".
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After the last few years, tech workers should see that great pay, benefits and working conditions last only as long as the market makes companies provide them. Even if a company town is great today, by accepting that world more power is handed over to business which will use it to squeeze workers hard when times eventually change.
I don't want to see any benevolence from companies. I want to see workers and democratic state institutions making companies behave.