US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances(theguardian.com)
theguardian.com
US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/21/new-home-builder-contractor-fossil-fuel-utilities-natural-gas
109 comments
> A consumer gas range simply doesnt put enough effective power into the cookware.
I like both gas and induction but are you really comparing the equivalent equipment in your anecdote?
The cheapest induction range on us-appliance.com (FCFI3083AS) is $1000, and has a 3600w "boost" burner, or ~12K BTUs
A $1000 gas range from the same company (Frigidaire, FCRG3062AB) has an 18K BTU burner. That's significantly more power.
I like both gas and induction but are you really comparing the equivalent equipment in your anecdote?
The cheapest induction range on us-appliance.com (FCFI3083AS) is $1000, and has a 3600w "boost" burner, or ~12K BTUs
A $1000 gas range from the same company (Frigidaire, FCRG3062AB) has an 18K BTU burner. That's significantly more power.
The gas burners are wildly inefficient at transferring heat to the pot/pan. E.g. Wirecutter says gas is only 32% efficient, so the nominal 18 BTUs is only 5.8 BTUs in the pan. Whereas electric is at least 75% efficient (higher for induction) so a nominally 12 BTU electric stove provides at least 9 BTUs in the pan. In this case the electric stove is still effectively more than 50% more powerful.
Yes and the efficiency rating of an induction device compared to gas is about 3x because its heating the container directly vs indirectly.
https://www.energystar.gov/partner_resources/brand_owner_res...
https://www.energystar.gov/partner_resources/brand_owner_res...
Most of the gas stove's heat is lost and doesn't make it into the food though. Hard to know how much, but I read maybe only 30-40% of a gas stove's BTU output actually makes it into the food... so I would actually think a 12k BTU induction stove could put more heat into the food you're cooking than an 18k BTU gas burner. If this is the summer time, the gas burner is extra sucky and heating up your home. You also need to blast your exhaust fan when using a gas burner and may therefore need to condition more air than with an induction.
Randomly googled efficiency:
> when cooking with gas, about 60 percent of the energy is wasted, compared to just 16 percent with induction
Which translates to induction winning 10.08 vs 7.2 useful BTUs
> when cooking with gas, about 60 percent of the energy is wasted, compared to just 16 percent with induction
Which translates to induction winning 10.08 vs 7.2 useful BTUs
I am coming from this model:
https://www.jennairappliances.com/appliances/cooktops/induct...
To this model:
https://www.frigidaire.com/en/p/kitchen/ranges/gas-ranges/FC...
Definitely not comparable on cost basis.
All of that said, I can use the same techniques stepping down from a 5kW to a 1.8kW unit. Once you get above ~2500 watts on induction it doesn't feel like it's moving the needle that much. I rarely used the 5kw boost mode. It was actually too powerful in most cases, even stir fry if you weren't moving like a mad man.
Moving from gas or resistive to electromagnetic seems like the actual magic trick.
https://www.jennairappliances.com/appliances/cooktops/induct...
To this model:
https://www.frigidaire.com/en/p/kitchen/ranges/gas-ranges/FC...
Definitely not comparable on cost basis.
All of that said, I can use the same techniques stepping down from a 5kW to a 1.8kW unit. Once you get above ~2500 watts on induction it doesn't feel like it's moving the needle that much. I rarely used the 5kw boost mode. It was actually too powerful in most cases, even stir fry if you weren't moving like a mad man.
Moving from gas or resistive to electromagnetic seems like the actual magic trick.
That's still not a complete picture.
That 18K BTU of gas is heat under and around the pan. Most of it licks around the sides and up into the room. It's 30-40% efficient.
Induction coils are 85% efficient. 85% of your 12K BTU is heat energy in the fabric of the pan.
You certainly can get very very hot burner rings. They're commercial units usually. But they're wasting so much energy.
That 18K BTU of gas is heat under and around the pan. Most of it licks around the sides and up into the room. It's 30-40% efficient.
Induction coils are 85% efficient. 85% of your 12K BTU is heat energy in the fabric of the pan.
You certainly can get very very hot burner rings. They're commercial units usually. But they're wasting so much energy.
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Your place may have an extremely underpowered gas stove?
Tons of places do stir fry on gas.
Probably the norm I would say.
If you go to a hibachi grill, they're doing it right out in the open.
Tons of places do stir fry on gas.
Probably the norm I would say.
If you go to a hibachi grill, they're doing it right out in the open.
A home gas stove in the US will probably make around 10k BTUs. Some have burners designed for high heat cooking that might go over 20k BTUs. Your average wok burner used for stir frying in a restaurant is going to be over 100k BTUs, possibly 200k. To be clear, you can do a tasty stir fry over lower heat; but realize that the commercial wok burners are specialized equipment, and any home gas stove will be underpowered by comparison.
I don't wok cook.
It sounds like the person I was originally responding to doesn't have a complaint with gas stoves but more with the fact that they are no longer cooking on a specialized piece of equipment.
It sounds like the person I was originally responding to doesn't have a complaint with gas stoves but more with the fact that they are no longer cooking on a specialized piece of equipment.
I have a good gas (propane) stove top and the big burner definitely is good for stir-fry. I'm sure many cheaper gas stoves are not as good.
I suspect this problem is really dependent by city or even neighborhood. I think the real practical limit is the municipal supply design rather than the available units.
A friend had a 5 burner unit in their house that visibly dropped output if you ran 4 or 5 at the same time, just not enough gas coming into the house. By comparison the commercial kitchen on the same block was happily running a flat top an 2 other stations at full blast; so it can't have fundamentally been supply just the way it was distributed.
A friend had a 5 burner unit in their house that visibly dropped output if you ran 4 or 5 at the same time, just not enough gas coming into the house. By comparison the commercial kitchen on the same block was happily running a flat top an 2 other stations at full blast; so it can't have fundamentally been supply just the way it was distributed.
For water heating specifically, get an electric kettle. They are optimized for boiling water, much faster than gas OR induction on a stove.
If a country with 220/240v electric kettles, I can believe it... but in the US the electric kettle is probably 110/120V at 12-15 amps, then I would think an induction stove kettle could be faster, no?
For the volumes often boiled in kettles, often 0.5l to 1.0l, only if you use a massively oversized pot. But then you need to account of the extra evaporation and greater cookware mass which hurts the induction stove.
Induction power is still limited by pot diameter and common cookware is very heavy for water boiling because other types of cooking need more even heat and higher temperatures.
I actually raced a 120v kettle versus and high-end induction stove to boil 1l and it was very close.
Electric kettles are very well optimized for speed and efficiency.
Induction power is still limited by pot diameter and common cookware is very heavy for water boiling because other types of cooking need more even heat and higher temperatures.
I actually raced a 120v kettle versus and high-end induction stove to boil 1l and it was very close.
Electric kettles are very well optimized for speed and efficiency.
Your induction cooktop isn’t going to dump all of its power into a single ‘burner’, and the pot you use on an induction stove will have significantly more thermal mass than your average kettle. The heating element in an electric kettle will be directly heating the water. A induction cooktop will heat the pot first, then the pot heats the water. Lots more thermal mass to heat up.
Microwave works pretty good too.
Have to be careful about super heated water and flash boiling.
No, they really don't. Microwave ovens are horribly inefficient. I've consistently found a kettle is much faster.
This has certain downsides depending on the container you are using.
my has stove gets WAAAY hotter then my mother's electric range. both faster to temp and overall heat. mothers stove is 4 years old, mine is 6.
I've never heard of electric being faster at boiling water than gas.
You either have a very poor gas stove or you moved to a much higher elevation where boiling water is just flat-out takes longer.
You either have a very poor gas stove or you moved to a much higher elevation where boiling water is just flat-out takes longer.
I think you may not have used induction.
Yeah, when I replaced my crap electric hob with induction I literally sent a video to my mum boiling a pan of water to show how crazy fast it was.
I'm in the UK though, maybe it's something to do with having 230v supply?
I'm in the UK though, maybe it's something to do with having 230v supply?
No, in North America all electric hobs are 240v often 30 amp (sometime higher).
With cooking it's all about efficiency of heat transfer, latency of power change, and flexibility of pan lifting between the three types of hobs (electric resistive, induction, gas).
The efficiency of electric resistive and gas is poor, induction is great.
The latency of power change of electric resistive is poor, induction and gas are great.
Flexibility of pan lifting of electric resistive and induction are poor (lift more than a couple of centimetres and you have no heat), gas is good.
With cooking it's all about efficiency of heat transfer, latency of power change, and flexibility of pan lifting between the three types of hobs (electric resistive, induction, gas).
The efficiency of electric resistive and gas is poor, induction is great.
The latency of power change of electric resistive is poor, induction and gas are great.
Flexibility of pan lifting of electric resistive and induction are poor (lift more than a couple of centimetres and you have no heat), gas is good.
The standard electric hob in North America is powered by a NEMA 14-50 outlet which can provide 240V 50A, actually. Really high end ranges use 60A outlets. 30A outlets are typically used for electric dryers.
In North America residential electric is 240V across both hot lines or 120V hot to neutral. Most normal power outlets in homes are 120V but any large electric appliance like a stove or clothes dryer will use 240V.
So built-in stoves or cooktops will take 240V but a portable single burner induction cooktop would likely only use 120V.
So built-in stoves or cooktops will take 240V but a portable single burner induction cooktop would likely only use 120V.
This is surprising because gas cooking is considered a "premium" feature here in NC, and people look for it during their house search. Personally, it is a better cooking experience than electric. Induction might be the best, but it's still expensive.
That might be a bit of propaganda from the gas industry over the last 50 years. I heard similar but when i dug into it appeared to be bunk… i cook on electric now and love it.
I grew up on electric, and Im looking to switch from my current gas to induction. Mostly for safety reasons - I don't like open flames. So Im about as biased against gas as possible.
Electric heating elements suck. They take an appreciable time to warm up, they stay warm long after forcing the cook to adjust accordingly. Also, only gas can really work with woks, but I don't use woks so that's a non issue.
If the power is out (which happens a lit in my corner of the USA) electric is MIA. Every electric heating element (except induction) is annoying to clean.
Finally, people like gas. Who made us better that we are to tell them that they've been brainwashed by evil corporations? I imagine people have at one point used electric, Americans do move a lot, and they just done like it!
(Induction rocks though)
Electric heating elements suck. They take an appreciable time to warm up, they stay warm long after forcing the cook to adjust accordingly. Also, only gas can really work with woks, but I don't use woks so that's a non issue.
If the power is out (which happens a lit in my corner of the USA) electric is MIA. Every electric heating element (except induction) is annoying to clean.
Finally, people like gas. Who made us better that we are to tell them that they've been brainwashed by evil corporations? I imagine people have at one point used electric, Americans do move a lot, and they just done like it!
(Induction rocks though)
Glass topped electric (induction or not) beats gas in cleaning every time imo. You take a razor blade and some scrubbing solution and you can actually clean it fully. Gas stovetops have nooks and crannies that get gross and are much more difficult to fully clean. I dread cleaning my gas stovetop.
I find the scrapping sound jarring. Also, I'm not convinced of the (material) toughness of glass top. A heavy laden iron skillet is shatter poison for glass top.
That being said, I'll accept glass top to get induction. Arrest i won't have to scrape.
That being said, I'll accept glass top to get induction. Arrest i won't have to scrape.
We replaced our electric with induction instead of gas, which my wife much prefers to cook on. One of my best arguments against gas was that every gas stovetop available has a heavy iron framework over the flame to hold pots, and it's a pain to clean under them.
I really like the heavy grates though. Some of my recipes require me to really go to town on heavy cast iron pots and pans. Busting a glass top is a real bummer. In such cases it's almost better to have the old-school electric burners (there's a reason apartments almost never have a "nice" glass range).
Are you… dropping cast iron cookware on the stove? I don’t know any recipe that would require some movement that would damage a glass cooktop. Cast iron cookware seems to scratch glass tops over time, but that doesn’t seem to crack or damage them (unless you drop something on it, of course).
I've got a large 15lb enamel dutch oven. If I am doing any sort of speedy operation where I have to scrape off crusted ingredients, I might do some real clattering about. I have some real good chicken curry recipes where I do this.
It's also worth noting that certain things like home canning might actually void the warranty of your glass cooktop. The extreme weight put on them during the process can actually put more pressure on the layers than they can handle. Older canning equipment might not even be compatible with the flat surface.
It's also worth noting that certain things like home canning might actually void the warranty of your glass cooktop. The extreme weight put on them during the process can actually put more pressure on the layers than they can handle. Older canning equipment might not even be compatible with the flat surface.
I can't speak to home canning, but again unless you're dropping cookware I don't see how rocking cookware violently back and forth is going to damage a glass top. Scratch it, sure, but not destroy it.
Every apartment I ever lived in that had electric had a glass range. If you’re even a little careful it’s perfectly fine. It sounds like you enjoy performative clattering, and if that’s your preference then more power to you, but that’s highly abnormal.
I don't know about your specific circumstances but for Indian cooking, gas is just miles ahead. We have electric at home, It just takes forever to cook anything and it's hard to control the heat. Our friends with gas cooktops get done in half the time.
This might be a problem with your range. I bought a house recently with a new flipper-grade electric range and the first time I used the large burner on it, the amount of heat it put out completely eclipsed what the range in my previous apartment did. The only difference is that the new one has a glass top. On the high setting I can't even bring my hand within 6 inches of the burner once its up to temperature.
Heat isn't an issue. It's the lag. Feels like forever when you want to cook in high heat and ramp down.
The glasstops come with their own issues if you are doing a lot of cooking with heavy cast iron pans. I have some recipes that you really have to go to work on the pots and bang them around.
A gas range is really just the ideal setup for the most varieties of cooking, and there's a reason they are almost a requirement for most professional kitchens.
A gas range is really just the ideal setup for the most varieties of cooking, and there's a reason they are almost a requirement for most professional kitchens.
Something is off there, I grew up cooking on gas, and previous place I had a nice Bosch 6 burner. The electric one we have is better and I prefer it. It is fast and never had issues like that.
>We have electric at home, It just takes forever to cook anything and it's hard to control the heat.
You like have an under-powered resistance range. A proper 240v 60A circuit powered induction range will out-heat any residential gas range and do it with laser-like precision.
You like have an under-powered resistance range. A proper 240v 60A circuit powered induction range will out-heat any residential gas range and do it with laser-like precision.
Are you using an induction stovetop?
No. Just plain electric.
OK. That is indeed a sucky experience.
The only thing induction doesn't do well is cooking with things like woks, where you have a curved surface that you want to heat evenly.
The only thing induction doesn't do well is cooking with things like woks, where you have a curved surface that you want to heat evenly.
Or any large pot or pan. Gas heat distributes heat nicely across the bottom and sides of any size pot you put on it. Even rectangular pans and dishes.
Even an old school electric is better in this regard than an induction top. If you lay a big cast iron pan across your induction top (which you wouldn't want to to begin with) it will literally only heat up the molecules directly above your biggest burner.
So while an induction is superior in 80% of cases, you still ultimately get more versatility out of gas.
Even an old school electric is better in this regard than an induction top. If you lay a big cast iron pan across your induction top (which you wouldn't want to to begin with) it will literally only heat up the molecules directly above your biggest burner.
So while an induction is superior in 80% of cases, you still ultimately get more versatility out of gas.
There are induction cooktops which will heat a griddle the size of a half sheet tray, and will automatically sense when it’s there and turn on the bridge. They also have fewer hotspots than gas, which definitely doesn’t heat evenly on thin nonstick cookware.
I have cooked on induction for close to a decade with heavy cast iron and no scratches much less cracking. Just be even slightly careful and you’ll be fine. Induction is amazing.
I have cooked on induction for close to a decade with heavy cast iron and no scratches much less cracking. Just be even slightly careful and you’ll be fine. Induction is amazing.
>Gas heat distributes heat nicely across the bottom and sides of any size pot you put on it.
And leaded gasoline made poorly-dimensioned combustion chambers run better/not knock. We still banned it for good reasons.
And leaded gasoline made poorly-dimensioned combustion chambers run better/not knock. We still banned it for good reasons.
> That might be a bit of propaganda
Not really, there are a number of techniques that are harder (some not possible) on electric which has less control and high latency.
But ... it only matters if you are going to use such techniques.
Not really, there are a number of techniques that are harder (some not possible) on electric which has less control and high latency.
But ... it only matters if you are going to use such techniques.
I can’t even cook scrambled eggs well on resistive electric. I mean, I can, but they won’t come out as good and there’s a much higher likelihood I’ll ruin them.
Delicate sauces? Getting a custard to come together just right? Maybe some people can, but me, forget about it. This is basic stuff, too, I don’t even know how to do anything fancy. I know that when I finally tried gas it was like “oh, I can cook now!”
Toasting flatbread and tortillas directly on the burners is handy.
IDK if I can do any of that on induction. I’ve only seen those in-person at the store and at one airbnb. We have a working gas stove and induction’s expensive, so I doubt I’ll own one for another decade or so, at least.
Delicate sauces? Getting a custard to come together just right? Maybe some people can, but me, forget about it. This is basic stuff, too, I don’t even know how to do anything fancy. I know that when I finally tried gas it was like “oh, I can cook now!”
Toasting flatbread and tortillas directly on the burners is handy.
IDK if I can do any of that on induction. I’ve only seen those in-person at the store and at one airbnb. We have a working gas stove and induction’s expensive, so I doubt I’ll own one for another decade or so, at least.
Induction is faster, more precise, more efficient/green, safer, and most importantly not spewing toxic crap into your kitchen/living room where you presumably spend time with your family/children.
Even with an externally-vented vent hood (most dump back into the room) + make up air system (that most do not have) gas ranges still contaminate your kitchen.
Even with an externally-vented vent hood (most dump back into the room) + make up air system (that most do not have) gas ranges still contaminate your kitchen.
On old school electric.
Induction is way better for control and latency than gas.
The only issue is if you need to genuinely ignite something (like in wok cooking--but, then, get a blowtorch--if it's good enough for J. Kenji Lopez-Alt it's good enough for you).
One real problem is that the standalone induction burners are only 110V in the US and that hamstrings them dramatically. Induction cooktops, however, do not suffer from that issue as they will be wired into 208/220V.
Induction is way better for control and latency than gas.
The only issue is if you need to genuinely ignite something (like in wok cooking--but, then, get a blowtorch--if it's good enough for J. Kenji Lopez-Alt it's good enough for you).
One real problem is that the standalone induction burners are only 110V in the US and that hamstrings them dramatically. Induction cooktops, however, do not suffer from that issue as they will be wired into 208/220V.
Agree induction is pretty great, although it limits cookware and still doesn't work for all techniques (blowtorch doesn't replace everything). And you are right that the 110V are underpowered.
The ones I've used are less granular than gas (which is essentially continuous) and latency is similar. From what I've seen europe is still way ahead on induction offerings, but it seems to be getting better.
I'd probably lean towards induction these days because the particulates from gas are obviously a problem and not easily dealt with - but I won't pretend induction is a 100% drop in replacement/improvement.
The ones I've used are less granular than gas (which is essentially continuous) and latency is similar. From what I've seen europe is still way ahead on induction offerings, but it seems to be getting better.
I'd probably lean towards induction these days because the particulates from gas are obviously a problem and not easily dealt with - but I won't pretend induction is a 100% drop in replacement/improvement.
> The ones I've used are less granular than gas (which is essentially continuous) and latency is similar.
However, I find that gas has no granularity at the lowest settings. Induction has like 4 or 5 settings below the minimum setting of gas. This is really great for melting or softening things.
Maybe this is different on a professional gas stove, but I've never used one of those.
However, I find that gas has no granularity at the lowest settings. Induction has like 4 or 5 settings below the minimum setting of gas. This is really great for melting or softening things.
Maybe this is different on a professional gas stove, but I've never used one of those.
Induction’s still pricey, too. The low end of gas ranges is low-priced, indeed. And ranges (can) last a long time, so old-school electric is gonna be the “normal” electric range for many years yet, I expect.
Just checked Lowes. Cheapest induction range, $999. Four gas options are $499 or lower, four resistive electrics $499 or lower.
Just checked Lowes. Cheapest induction range, $999. Four gas options are $499 or lower, four resistive electrics $499 or lower.
True. Even Ikea's cheapest seems to be about 800.
Wok is impossible on electric.
One technique to recover lost heating control though is to place the pot partially on the element. You need a flat top electric and high quality cookware for that, but it works in a pinch
One technique to recover lost heating control though is to place the pot partially on the element. You need a flat top electric and high quality cookware for that, but it works in a pinch
As someone who cooks quite a lot, it's not propaganda. Induction has 2 minor/moderate annoyances vs gas: It gets low temp by varying the time the burner is on full and heating diminishes rapidly if the pan isn't in close contact with the element. The former can be super annoying in some situations (i.e. making a sauce) as the sauce boils for a second, then gets too cold non stop. The latter can be a big problem if your pans warp even a bit (i.e. most non cast iron pans) or if you are basting.
That being said, I currently cook on induction at home because the annoyances above have work arounds/mitigations and the cleanup/ lack of heating the room of induction vs gas is worth more to me than not being annoyed sometimes. I don't like the pressure to get rid of this stuff, it should be individual choice depending on your own personal situation.
That being said, I currently cook on induction at home because the annoyances above have work arounds/mitigations and the cleanup/ lack of heating the room of induction vs gas is worth more to me than not being annoyed sometimes. I don't like the pressure to get rid of this stuff, it should be individual choice depending on your own personal situation.
>it should be individual choice depending on your own personal situation.
Your average individual is completely unequipped to make an informed decision on this topic. They have no idea their crappy gas stove is spewing high volumes of carcinogens and other nasty things into their kitchen.
We do the same thing for toys, my wife should be able to buy my child a toy at the store without having to bring an XRF gun to look for lead paint. Everything in the store should be safe by default. If you want to make a difference _at scale_ that's how you do it.
Your average individual is completely unequipped to make an informed decision on this topic. They have no idea their crappy gas stove is spewing high volumes of carcinogens and other nasty things into their kitchen.
We do the same thing for toys, my wife should be able to buy my child a toy at the store without having to bring an XRF gun to look for lead paint. Everything in the store should be safe by default. If you want to make a difference _at scale_ that's how you do it.
So, either your comparison is false equivalence or lead is way safer than it has been made out to be and probably deserves less restriction, because gas ranges are not default unsafe.
>because gas ranges are not default unsafe.
They are in fact unsafe by default in basically every metric. In a brand new one spews toxic byproducts into your home, which for most people lacks the ventilation to remove it.
It also comes with the fun side effect of blowing up dozens of houses per year, being environmentally wasteful, and being inferior to induction for cooking.
They are in fact unsafe by default in basically every metric. In a brand new one spews toxic byproducts into your home, which for most people lacks the ventilation to remove it.
It also comes with the fun side effect of blowing up dozens of houses per year, being environmentally wasteful, and being inferior to induction for cooking.
It's code here to have ventilation and usually make up air for gas ranges, so maybe your area just sucks when it comes to building codes?
It's kind of amusing citing dozens of homes blowing up from gas when NFPA has just a bit under 50,000 electrical fires in homes in the USA due to electrical failure/malfunction each year with ~400 deaths and ~1400 injuries with ~1.5 billion in damages each year. If you add in electrical failure of lighting and distribution equipment in the home you slightly more than double the deaths, and 1.8X the other numbers each year....
Again, it's not inferior to induction cooking, it's better in many ways, but it's really personal preference and people should be allowed to make those choices themselves (as I said, I personally choose induction but I get why people like gas and recognize the ways in which it is superior, as well as the drawbacks).
It's kind of amusing citing dozens of homes blowing up from gas when NFPA has just a bit under 50,000 electrical fires in homes in the USA due to electrical failure/malfunction each year with ~400 deaths and ~1400 injuries with ~1.5 billion in damages each year. If you add in electrical failure of lighting and distribution equipment in the home you slightly more than double the deaths, and 1.8X the other numbers each year....
Again, it's not inferior to induction cooking, it's better in many ways, but it's really personal preference and people should be allowed to make those choices themselves (as I said, I personally choose induction but I get why people like gas and recognize the ways in which it is superior, as well as the drawbacks).
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I found the induction ranges are far more trouble than they're worth to me. The low temperature thing is a serious problem, and I really dislike that you have to use certain types of pans. I've used gas stoves enough to know that they're fine -- but for me they offer no important advantages over electric.
> I don't like the pressure to get rid of this stuff, it should be individual choice depending on your own personal situation.
So much this! Different strokes for different folks.
> I don't like the pressure to get rid of this stuff, it should be individual choice depending on your own personal situation.
So much this! Different strokes for different folks.
Cooking food over an open flame has been the standard since prehistoric times.
Possibly the idea that a hot electric coil is just as good is the propaganda?
Possibly the idea that a hot electric coil is just as good is the propaganda?
A hot electric coil IS true garbage, it's inefficient and slow (I have one of these at home). When we say electric here, we mean induction.
Personally I'm a fan of cooking with gas. The inability to lift and move the pan on induction I don't like, and the glass tops they come with I find far too delicate for my liking.
Personally I'm a fan of cooking with gas. The inability to lift and move the pan on induction I don't like, and the glass tops they come with I find far too delicate for my liking.
> That might be a bit of propaganda from the gas industry over the last 50 years
What a crazy conspiracy theory. It assumes electric companies and appliance makers do no marketing of their own.
Gas cooking is obviously a more luxurious experience and anyone who says otherwise has not tried to make a hollandaise sauce on each.
What a crazy conspiracy theory. It assumes electric companies and appliance makers do no marketing of their own.
Gas cooking is obviously a more luxurious experience and anyone who says otherwise has not tried to make a hollandaise sauce on each.
I've never had any trouble making hollandaise on an electric range.
> Gas cooking is obviously a more luxurious experience and anyone who says otherwise has not tried to make a hollandaise sauce on each.
I've made hollandaise and other delicate sauces on both. In my book, they're both perfectly fine. Excluding induction (which I have struggles with), I wouldn't call either better than the other.
I've made hollandaise and other delicate sauces on both. In my book, they're both perfectly fine. Excluding induction (which I have struggles with), I wouldn't call either better than the other.
Don't you make a hollandaise sauce with a double boiler type approach? So shouldn't that really make the heat source even less relevant? As you lift the inner bowl to adjust cooking temp?
>Gas cooking is obviously a more luxurious experience
Maybe for the 60+ boomer crowd, for everyone else Induction is way cooler than gas.
Maybe for the 60+ boomer crowd, for everyone else Induction is way cooler than gas.
It's the opposite where I am. People tend to avoid gas. I've even seen people go to the extent of having gas service physically removed from houses they've bought.
Where is that generally? I am super conscious of air quality, would flip my stove but not sure I would rip out gas heat unless it already needed replacement.
I would prefer not to say very specifically, but I'm in a part of the US where electricity is less expensive than gas, which is probably the largest reason why people avoid gas around here.
Also, the majority of houses never had gas piped to them in the first place. Most people are used to electric and it's a nonissue for them, so there is little desire to use gas.
Also, the majority of houses never had gas piped to them in the first place. Most people are used to electric and it's a nonissue for them, so there is little desire to use gas.
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I would literally buy propane camping stove and a big bottle of propane rather than use an electrical stove.
Resistive electric? I’m with you, I truly would just go for my own propane supply before going back to that crap. But you can get propane conversion kits for natural gas ranges, no need to get the camping stove.
I haven’t had a chance to try electric induction yet. I don’t know anyone who has one.
I haven’t had a chance to try electric induction yet. I don’t know anyone who has one.
Why is that?
Latency on adjustments primarily.
If you're cooking a roux for example or sauteing garlic, 30 second latency is enough to ruin them.
Also, I have a feeling that the heat is distributed more evenly but no concrete evidence on that.
If you're cooking a roux for example or sauteing garlic, 30 second latency is enough to ruin them.
Also, I have a feeling that the heat is distributed more evenly but no concrete evidence on that.
As the article says, gas cooking is poor for our health & the environment. Utility firms have to fight against buyers who are getting more educated about this, along with stricter codes also informed by this knowledge. At some level, you have to decide where you want to be on the axis between your cooking experience & your child's health (if that's a concern in your situation). If you feel induction is too expensive, you may qualify for assistance, under a state program or under the inflation reduction act.
Other than that, it's become a bit of an ID Pol issue [0], [1], [2], so I can see why considering it "premium" would be a thing in a sorta purple, sorta red state.
0 - https://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-guest-alleges-electric-stove...
1 - https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/5-ways-biden-still-coming-yo...
2 - https://www.axios.com/2023/01/12/gas-stoves-conservative-bac...
Other than that, it's become a bit of an ID Pol issue [0], [1], [2], so I can see why considering it "premium" would be a thing in a sorta purple, sorta red state.
0 - https://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-guest-alleges-electric-stove...
1 - https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/5-ways-biden-still-coming-yo...
2 - https://www.axios.com/2023/01/12/gas-stoves-conservative-bac...
The correlation between gas and children's asthma is pretty weak. And there are already existing correlations between gas usage and cold climates, and cold climates and children's asthma.
There are also strong correlations between electricity in the home and harm to children, but anyone in their reasonable mind would understand that you can improve consumer protections. So it's a bit of whataboutism to imply that only gas users are making safety tradeoffs.
There are also strong correlations between electricity in the home and harm to children, but anyone in their reasonable mind would understand that you can improve consumer protections. So it's a bit of whataboutism to imply that only gas users are making safety tradeoffs.
Here in British Columbia, we replaced our gas furnace with a heat pump and received $11,000 in rebates from the provincial and federal governments for doing so. We also replaced our electric stove (that we hated) with induction, not gas (which we loved) due to the health concerns of gas cooking in homes.
I'm not surprised the gas industry is resorting to "inducements" to keep gas in vogue. Our last gas appliance is our water heater, and we're considering getting rid of it as well so we're gas free.
I'm not surprised the gas industry is resorting to "inducements" to keep gas in vogue. Our last gas appliance is our water heater, and we're considering getting rid of it as well so we're gas free.
Natural gas supply companies incentivize their sales channel to install the connection which is needed in order to consume the gas product. This seems like business 101.
In many places, heating your home and your domestic hot water is still financially less expensive using natural gas. Sure, there's negatives to using natural gas, but being more expensive is not one of them.
In many places, heating your home and your domestic hot water is still financially less expensive using natural gas. Sure, there's negatives to using natural gas, but being more expensive is not one of them.
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I won't speak to cooking. But, gas central air heaters are much cheaper to operate than heat pumps in Phoenix, AZ. I wish it wasn't so environmentally speaking. But from a cost point of view, its better to use natural gas than electricity.
I can see heat pumps costing more than natural gas furnaces in cold regions, but I would not have expected it in Phoenix. Are electricity prices super high or gas prices super low?
> gas prices super low
EXTREMELY low. I was shocked in the PNW when we switched to a house with natural gas appliances how much we saved.
In some cases they are not even superior appliances but you save so much money.
EXTREMELY low. I was shocked in the PNW when we switched to a house with natural gas appliances how much we saved.
In some cases they are not even superior appliances but you save so much money.
That's just a policy choice. There's no law of physics that makes an electric heat pump cost more.
Actually it is physics and the market https://www.statista.com/statistics/220174/total-us-electric... a huge percentage of us electrical power is from natural gas. Natural gas to electricity to heat is a lot less efficient.
A modern gas turbine is around 50% efficient, give or take 10%. A modern heat pump has a COP of around 4, so burning gas to make electricity to run a heat pump is more efficient than burning gas to make heat.
There's not even a physics reason why a heat pump needs to be electric. There are gas-fired heat pumps. There are even gas-fired refrigerators. These weird anti heat-pump memes are just being regurgitated by people who do not understand what they are talking about.
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An electric heat pump by nature has a lot more parts.
A gas furnace is just a few sensors, a burner, a fan, and a box to do it in.
A gas furnace is just a few sensors, a burner, a fan, and a box to do it in.
> a fan
I think you might be underestimating the # of components in a modern furnace.
I think you might be underestimating the # of components in a modern furnace.
I'm intentionally being reductive, but I have worked on several furnaces and gas furnaces are an order of magnitude simpler than their respective heat pump.
... gas furnace + A/C compressor is another story.
... gas furnace + A/C compressor is another story.
How is that policy choice?
Are be subsidizing the natural gas suppliers or adding fees to natty generation plants?
Are be subsidizing the natural gas suppliers or adding fees to natty generation plants?
How?
You wouldn't have to bribe me to opt for gas.
In the past 20 years I've lived through two natural disasters that disrupted residential electrical service for more than a week. While electric utilities struggled to restore service, our gas fireplace gave emergency heat, our gas stove top cooked our food, and our gas water heater made our home the destination for our neighbors to get a hot shower. (The neighbors had gas water heaters too, but the high-efficiency kind that won't light the pilot if 120v isn't present.)
Besides the practical benefits, gas energy is significantly cheaper than electric, a distinct advantage as prices inflate.
In the past 20 years I've lived through two natural disasters that disrupted residential electrical service for more than a week. While electric utilities struggled to restore service, our gas fireplace gave emergency heat, our gas stove top cooked our food, and our gas water heater made our home the destination for our neighbors to get a hot shower. (The neighbors had gas water heaters too, but the high-efficiency kind that won't light the pilot if 120v isn't present.)
Besides the practical benefits, gas energy is significantly cheaper than electric, a distinct advantage as prices inflate.
I don't have gas to my place--they just installed a line on the street, so I could get it relatively cheap now...
... but probably going to get a heat pump instead. Electric heat sucks money, so I'm keen to replace it with something. And now that we've gone from 1 too-hot day per year to 7-8 with smoke, it's a double win.
... but probably going to get a heat pump instead. Electric heat sucks money, so I'm keen to replace it with something. And now that we've gone from 1 too-hot day per year to 7-8 with smoke, it's a double win.
The paid appearance came as part of a celebrity-focused program the American Gas Association launched in the 1970s, after the association had reportedly conducted its own research into the health dangers of gas appliances. After finding a link between gas stoves and indoor air pollution, the trade group sponsored shows hosted by Pépin’s frequent collaborator Julia Child, as well as actors Mary Tyler Moore and Doris Day, Rebecca Leber recently reported. (The industry still includes celebrity restaurateurs in its pro-gas campaigns.)
This reads like satire, like it could have been a throw away line in Thank You for Smoking, but no, this cartoonish level of villainy is real, and all too common.
This reads like satire, like it could have been a throw away line in Thank You for Smoking, but no, this cartoonish level of villainy is real, and all too common.
You could rewrite this entire article about the drywall industry, or the plumbing industry, or the lumber industry and it would mostly be the same.
You already have to have decided that gas appliances are the bogeyman for this article to elicit any sort of outrage.
You already have to have decided that gas appliances are the bogeyman for this article to elicit any sort of outrage.
A consumer gas range simply doesnt put enough effective power into the cookware. This isnt only about boiling water quickly. This is about getting a pan hot enough fast enough to maintain a certain cooking style, even if its kind of half-assed. It might not be perfect, but I can make what I think is really good stir fry on a quality induction range (i.e. one that will actually tolerate movement of the pan without cutting power).
I had enough time to order an 1800w portable induction unit while I waited for my kettle to boil via fire this morning.
Even the cleanup is 10x better on induction.