Get a Windows 11 development environment(developer.microsoft.com)
developer.microsoft.com
Get a Windows 11 development environment
https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/downloads/virtual-machines/
72 comments
> If the evaluation period expires, the desktop background will turn black, you will see a persistent desktop notification indicating that the system is not genuine, and the PC will shut down every hour.
Otherwise you have an approx 1 month trial period. Which is pretty short - 2 months would be better.
Otherwise you have an approx 1 month trial period. Which is pretty short - 2 months would be better.
The main issue is that the duration is variable depending on when the VM was released. When I checked earlier (not sure if this is still the case) the license was valid for 90 days after release.
With slmgr /rearm you can extend the license period. IIRC a couple of times but not unlimited, but I definitely got more than 2 months out of it.
How does the 1 month compare to the 0 month trial period offered by of MacOS?
I think one month is decent. But I'm pretty sure if it would be 2 months, you'd say 2 months is pretty short (why?), 3 would better (sure, more is better).
I think one month is decent. But I'm pretty sure if it would be 2 months, you'd say 2 months is pretty short (why?), 3 would better (sure, more is better).
AFAIK, these types of VMs have been offered for many years. They used to be for IE compatibility, but they were full Windows installs. I know they existed as far back as 2013 and maybe even earlier.
Definitely earlier. I used these in 2011 while employed by a major government contractor. We had a stupid in-house system for paperwork submission that only worked on IE6 running on Windows XP. For my team I made an VirtualBox image based on this that could run on our customer-issued MacBook devices. Anytime we needed to submit expenses, just load the WinXP virtual machine.
Yes. You also get Vagrant images for them [1] which are quite convenient to use.
1. https://app.vagrantup.com/gusztavvargadr/boxes/windows-11
1. https://app.vagrantup.com/gusztavvargadr/boxes/windows-11
I remember those. I was more of a noob back then so instead of all the fiddling I often just used Browsershots.
True, I used them for IE debugging.
> Unfortunately, we don't have an ARM version available at the moment. We understand that this may be disappointing news, but we don't have any short term plans to create these. However, we're always open to feedback and suggestions from our users and will take them into consideration when planning future updates.
Feedback - Quit being so cagey about your ARM release. Make them easier to find. Hell, just create an official UTM image while you are at it.
Apple Silicon users will thank you, all at once.
Feedback - Quit being so cagey about your ARM release. Make them easier to find. Hell, just create an official UTM image while you are at it.
Apple Silicon users will thank you, all at once.
There's speculation that Microsoft have had a deal with Qualcomm that has prevented this to date [1], but that deal should hopefully be expiring soon.
[1]: https://www.extremetech.com/computing/329311-report-windows-...
[1]: https://www.extremetech.com/computing/329311-report-windows-...
Prevent what exactly though? Running on physical hardware I would have to imagine?
They have ARM images available, I run them in UTM already. They just make them increasingly difficult to find.
They have ARM images available, I run them in UTM already. They just make them increasingly difficult to find.
They also provide Parallels Image (but no arm), which is an official authorized solution to run Windows ARM on Apple Silicone https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/options-for-usin...
Weird that they would not include ARM version, considering that Visual Studio for ARM is available too.
Weird that they would not include ARM version, considering that Visual Studio for ARM is available too.
Counterpoint: Get a Linux development environment, and it won't have any of these limitations or annoyances.
How exactly would you develop a native Windows application by doing that?
Obviously the main reason to use this is that you need to make a Windows version of some application and don't natively use Windows as your development/testing environment.
And these have existed for at least a decade. I remember using one in the early 2010s to debug weird issues with IE.
Obviously the main reason to use this is that you need to make a Windows version of some application and don't natively use Windows as your development/testing environment.
And these have existed for at least a decade. I remember using one in the early 2010s to debug weird issues with IE.
Why would you want to develop a native Windows app in 2024 rather than a cross-platform or browser-based application?
I develop a cross-platform application, via Electron.
If you think "cross-platform" means "everything will work so consistently that you never even need to test on the most popular desktop platform" then I'm afraid I have some very bad news for you.
I use these VMs all the time - they're a pain if you need a serious development environment, but they're great for quickly testing Windows issues & reproducing customer environments.
If you think "cross-platform" means "everything will work so consistently that you never even need to test on the most popular desktop platform" then I'm afraid I have some very bad news for you.
I use these VMs all the time - they're a pain if you need a serious development environment, but they're great for quickly testing Windows issues & reproducing customer environments.
Because sometimes you need/want to or someone pays you to?
Think any browser, heavy 3d/rendering stuff (Maya, Blender, etc), games/game engines, etc.
Even basic streaming/video/music players (Spotify, VLC or even ffmpeg has a Windows port/build that could have platform specific bugs).
Also even in the case that the application is mostly just an embedded browser window it can still have platform specific bugs.
I would argue the vast majority of native desktop applications are Windows applications just due to its massive marketshare. So in most cases if you are making a native application for desktop you will have to at the very least debug it on Windows sooner or later.
Think any browser, heavy 3d/rendering stuff (Maya, Blender, etc), games/game engines, etc.
Even basic streaming/video/music players (Spotify, VLC or even ffmpeg has a Windows port/build that could have platform specific bugs).
Also even in the case that the application is mostly just an embedded browser window it can still have platform specific bugs.
I would argue the vast majority of native desktop applications are Windows applications just due to its massive marketshare. So in most cases if you are making a native application for desktop you will have to at the very least debug it on Windows sooner or later.
> Think any browser, heavy 3d/rendering stuff (Maya, Blender, etc), games/game engines, etc.
Yeah dude platform-layer stuff would need to be native. But literally all those things are platforms on top of another platform. They're not applications and we're talking about applications.
> Even basic streaming/video/music players (Spotify, VLC or even ffmpeg has a Windows port/build that could have platform specific bugs). Also even in the case that the application is mostly just a an embedded browser window it can still have platform specific bugs.
This is not my experience with non-proprietary streaming services. The only reason those need access to the native environment is for DRM reasons.
> I would argue the vast majority of native desktop applications are Windows applications just due to its massive marketshare. So in most cases if you are making a native application for desktop you will have to at the very least debug it on Windows sooner or later.
This is only due to momentum. I highly doubt this is the future of computing..
Yeah dude platform-layer stuff would need to be native. But literally all those things are platforms on top of another platform. They're not applications and we're talking about applications.
> Even basic streaming/video/music players (Spotify, VLC or even ffmpeg has a Windows port/build that could have platform specific bugs). Also even in the case that the application is mostly just a an embedded browser window it can still have platform specific bugs.
This is not my experience with non-proprietary streaming services. The only reason those need access to the native environment is for DRM reasons.
> I would argue the vast majority of native desktop applications are Windows applications just due to its massive marketshare. So in most cases if you are making a native application for desktop you will have to at the very least debug it on Windows sooner or later.
This is only due to momentum. I highly doubt this is the future of computing..
> Yeah dude platform-layer stuff would need to be native. But literally all those things are platforms on top of another platform. They're not applications and we're talking about applications.
Wait what? Since when is stuff like Blender, VLC, Photoshop, Final Cut Pro, Adobe Premier, DaVinci Resolve, etc not applications?
Yes I did list browsers too but they are applications too. Someone has to develop them and fix all the platform specific issues.
> This is not my experience with non-proprietary streaming services. The only reason those need access to the native environment is for DRM reasons.
So basically now you added a modifier "if you develop open source software then just use linux desktop".
> This is only due to momentum. I highly doubt this is the future of computing.
Yeah but for the next 10 to 15 years at least we for sure will have Windows around as the dominant native desktop platform. Or are you saying 2024 is finally the "year of Linux desktop"?
Wait what? Since when is stuff like Blender, VLC, Photoshop, Final Cut Pro, Adobe Premier, DaVinci Resolve, etc not applications?
Yes I did list browsers too but they are applications too. Someone has to develop them and fix all the platform specific issues.
> This is not my experience with non-proprietary streaming services. The only reason those need access to the native environment is for DRM reasons.
So basically now you added a modifier "if you develop open source software then just use linux desktop".
> This is only due to momentum. I highly doubt this is the future of computing.
Yeah but for the next 10 to 15 years at least we for sure will have Windows around as the dominant native desktop platform. Or are you saying 2024 is finally the "year of Linux desktop"?
Microsoft does enough evil and annoying shit these days I'd put a day or two towards seeing if I could get away with using wine, 2nd option using a VM, 3rd booting up windows partition.
Just dont develop OS specific apps. Problem solved.
Agreed, you will do well with either QT or Swing. Or just a web application. However let's say you want to develop a vfs using Dokany, then a windows image is very useful.
Nothing is stopping QT or Swing from having a bug that only happens on Windows (or any other operating system).
With web apps if you want a more native look/feel/need more native integarations and decide to use something like Electron you can still have platform specific issues/bugs.
With web apps if you want a more native look/feel/need more native integarations and decide to use something like Electron you can still have platform specific issues/bugs.
This is what I do and it works great!!
I used these from Linux since they offer Virtual Box images. ;)
I think they should just offer an unlocked version of these for like $5 - 10 a month, as long as its in a VM it stays active.
I mean they are literally giving it away for free.
I think they should just offer an unlocked version of these for like $5 - 10 a month, as long as its in a VM it stays active.
I mean they are literally giving it away for free.
Buy a $140/$200 retail Windows 11 Home/Pro license with a credit card and make $7/$10 monthly payments. At around 20% APR, you'll end up with a perpetual license paid off in about two years that'll likely be useful for far longer than that.
For example, I'm currently using a retail Windows 7 Home Premium ($200) license upgraded to Windows 8 Pro ($100) in 2012 to run Windows 10 (free upgrade) on a fairly recent PC that's fully supported by Windows 11 (another free upgrade whenever I choose to do so).
On the linked page, Microsoft is only giving away an evaluation copy that, per the license terms[1], can't be used "in a live operating environment", which presumably includes ongoing use as a development system.
With that said, a $10/month consumer Windows Pro subscription for VMs and PCs that don't ship with OEM Windows, while niche, would probably net Microsoft at least as much as retail sales to the same market, so you're not wrong.
[1] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/UseTerms/Retail/Windows/11/U...
For example, I'm currently using a retail Windows 7 Home Premium ($200) license upgraded to Windows 8 Pro ($100) in 2012 to run Windows 10 (free upgrade) on a fairly recent PC that's fully supported by Windows 11 (another free upgrade whenever I choose to do so).
On the linked page, Microsoft is only giving away an evaluation copy that, per the license terms[1], can't be used "in a live operating environment", which presumably includes ongoing use as a development system.
With that said, a $10/month consumer Windows Pro subscription for VMs and PCs that don't ship with OEM Windows, while niche, would probably net Microsoft at least as much as retail sales to the same market, so you're not wrong.
[1] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/UseTerms/Retail/Windows/11/U...
Sort of tired of every windows-related article turning into a punchline. Why bother posting/upvoting these if we already know there won’t be any insightful comments?
Sort of tired of smart, intelligent, wealthy people convincing the general population to use proprietary platforms when it's obviously not in their best interest.
Ok? But this article isn’t about that, and you’re unlikely to reach the general population on Hacker News. This is a place for curious, insightful conversation, not for flaming organizations we just don’t like.
Why does it shut down every hour? If it ships with VS and all that, presumably they want me to develop on it? And if they want me to develop on it why would I want to be interrupted every hour?
Or is this so that I can spin up boxes for free (no Windows licenses) in my CI pipeline, so long as the build takes less than an hour?
Or is this so that I can spin up boxes for free (no Windows licenses) in my CI pipeline, so long as the build takes less than an hour?
I develop using these on Linux for Windows. The current version (2311) is not usable on Virtualbox (see known issues towards the end) so we are still sticking to version 2210 (it's expired but slmgr /rearm works)
Reinstalling it every couple of months is not much of a problem if you have a provisioning script. I actually like to do it that way because keeps bloat to a minimum.
Reinstalling it every couple of months is not much of a problem if you have a provisioning script. I actually like to do it that way because keeps bloat to a minimum.
What do you mean not usable on Virtualbox? I just spun it up last week and have had only a few minor rendering glitches (that aren't really common for me to hit, either).
Edit: now I see that that is the known issue. However, I only hit it in a few places:
- Start menu search - Visual Studio installer - Visual Studio launch screen
It's not really unusable, though; the Start menu issue is just a flicker and the VS issues are simply the wrong text being rendered until you mouse over it. It's a bit annoying, but I am fine with it.
Edit: now I see that that is the known issue. However, I only hit it in a few places:
- Start menu search - Visual Studio installer - Visual Studio launch screen
It's not really unusable, though; the Start menu issue is just a flicker and the VS issues are simply the wrong text being rendered until you mouse over it. It's a bit annoying, but I am fine with it.
If it's the issue I've been trying to workaround (to no practical success), it's something to do with how VirtualBox does 3D acceleration. I've found turning that off renders Windows 11 fine, though obviously with a significant performance penalty.
Doesn't work with vbox 7, try 6.
I use this as a general mess about VM, for installing stuff, trying stuff out etc that I don't want to on my main machine. They expire after a while but that's OK, they still work after expiry.
Windows already has the Windows Sandbox which is for exactly this purpose. You can spin it up in seconds, mess with it and when you close it, everything is gone.
Neat to learn about that. Still, it’s a new feature with Windows 10 and requires that the host OS be a Pro or Enterprise edition of Windows 10 or 11 (and for Enterprise it also cares about the licensing). Hardware requirements also exist.
The downloadable VMs don’t even require that your host OS be Windows or that you already have a Windows license, and they’ve been offered since long before Windows Sandbox existed.
The downloadable VMs don’t even require that your host OS be Windows or that you already have a Windows license, and they’ve been offered since long before Windows Sandbox existed.
I tried to like windows Sandbox, but I think it would be a killer if it would be like docker/podman with a proper GUI and desktop: you could snapshot it (no need for branching, and stuff, just persist it), and continue your work in it later. Keeping VMs around and tending them is a nuisance, but I have some software i'd prefer to only use in an isolated persistent sandbox (crapware for industrial control stuff, for example). Having lots of VMs around for this is really cumbersome.
It (Sandbox) worked okay for shady car repair handbook .ISO salvaged from the net for a long EOL'd unsupported model. Hope I'm not in a botnet... but I could find the repair instructions :D
It (Sandbox) worked okay for shady car repair handbook .ISO salvaged from the net for a long EOL'd unsupported model. Hope I'm not in a botnet... but I could find the repair instructions :D
Is it reliable? A VM is fully isolated, apart from maybe network and IO.
It's Hyper-V under the hood.
Curious to know which tradeoffs Microsoft chose to have sandbox boot this quickly
It's actually restoring state from a snapshot so it doesn't need to fully boot. There's some great technical details at https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/windows-os-platform-b...
Get a win 11 development environment, install WSL and carry on with your development? :)
“The evaluation virtual machine includes:
…
Windows Subsystem for Linux 2 enabled with Ubuntu installed”
:|
It's abstractions all the way down.
If you manage to install this Windows release in a VM in Ubuntu is certainly is:
Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V] (Armageddon/Ragnarök/heat death of universe)If you have an older machine that doesn't support win11, could you get this and run it in Hyper-V on win10 as your main machine?
Alternatively, you can also just bypass the compatibility checks
They offer VirtualBox packages.
This is the only reason why I can still support a windows app, thanks for this MS.
No thanks, I'm good.
What's the windows development environment like? Have they excised the nightmare that is the windows registry yet?
The Windows Registry is far better than the the INI Hell(tm) that preceded it or the chaos that is assorted text files on Linux.
Yes, as long as you consider everything being in the same database and thus being able to be corrupted all at once and not being human editable as features.
>not being human editable
Please tell me you know nothing about the Windows Registry without telling me you know nothing about the Windows Registry.
In case the snark by itself isn't useful: Windows provides the Registry Editor which, as its name implies, lets you modify the Registry using a GUI.
If you prefer a text-based method, you can modify the Registry by loading in human readable (and editable) .reg plain text files.
Powershell also provides a CLI environment, if that is preferred.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Registry#Editing
Please tell me you know nothing about the Windows Registry without telling me you know nothing about the Windows Registry.
In case the snark by itself isn't useful: Windows provides the Registry Editor which, as its name implies, lets you modify the Registry using a GUI.
If you prefer a text-based method, you can modify the Registry by loading in human readable (and editable) .reg plain text files.
Powershell also provides a CLI environment, if that is preferred.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Registry#Editing
What is preventing Microsoft from fixing this?
Please tell me you redefined human editable to suit you :)
That database is only accessible through one tool. Ok, two since powershell, but they probably call the same API so one single point of failure.
And its correctness cannot be verified - or fixed - if that tool fails.
That database is only accessible through one tool. Ok, two since powershell, but they probably call the same API so one single point of failure.
And its correctness cannot be verified - or fixed - if that tool fails.
DWORD ?
> The Windows Registry is far better than the the INI Hell(tm) that preceded it or the chaos that is assorted text files on Linux.
What excuse is there for the registry? Why are we stuck with 1980s solutions for 2024 problems? Why is there not simply some directory devoted per-app for configuration? How is this any better than "chaos that is assorted text files on Linux"? Of note—you can edit the linux configuration files with any editor you give a shit about, not just a one-off proprietary tool that obviously sucks ass.
What excuse is there for the registry? Why are we stuck with 1980s solutions for 2024 problems? Why is there not simply some directory devoted per-app for configuration? How is this any better than "chaos that is assorted text files on Linux"? Of note—you can edit the linux configuration files with any editor you give a shit about, not just a one-off proprietary tool that obviously sucks ass.
>Why is there not simply some directory devoted per-app for configuration?
Because one of the key objectives of the Windows Registry is to centralize the chaos induced by programmers being programmers.
Of course, if you bothered to learn how it all works you will know each program gets its own "directory" inside the Registry. Or they should, anyway; programmers gonna be programmers.
>Of note—you can edit the linux configuration files with any editor you give a shit about, not just a one-off proprietary tool that obviously sucks ass.
You can access and modify the Registry using any of: Registry Editor, Powershell, and plain text files imported into or exported from Registry Editor.
>Why are we stuck with 1980s solutions for 2024 problems?
The only people stuck in the 80s are the FOSS neckbeards such as yourself insisting on doing things the One Holy Way(tm), which is plain text files of arbitrary formatting located and accessed in arbitrary fashion.
The Windows Registry mandates a single format and central location and access scheme, which reins in at least some of the programmer chaos.
Because one of the key objectives of the Windows Registry is to centralize the chaos induced by programmers being programmers.
Of course, if you bothered to learn how it all works you will know each program gets its own "directory" inside the Registry. Or they should, anyway; programmers gonna be programmers.
>Of note—you can edit the linux configuration files with any editor you give a shit about, not just a one-off proprietary tool that obviously sucks ass.
You can access and modify the Registry using any of: Registry Editor, Powershell, and plain text files imported into or exported from Registry Editor.
>Why are we stuck with 1980s solutions for 2024 problems?
The only people stuck in the 80s are the FOSS neckbeards such as yourself insisting on doing things the One Holy Way(tm), which is plain text files of arbitrary formatting located and accessed in arbitrary fashion.
The Windows Registry mandates a single format and central location and access scheme, which reins in at least some of the programmer chaos.
> Because one of the key objectives of the Windows Registry is to centralize the chaos induced by programmers being programmers.
The issue is the registry. Macs manage configuration without it just fine!
> You can access and modify the Registry using any of: Registry Editor, Powershell, and plain text files imported into or exported from Registry Editor.
Oof. Instant failure.
The issue is the registry. Macs manage configuration without it just fine!
> You can access and modify the Registry using any of: Registry Editor, Powershell, and plain text files imported into or exported from Registry Editor.
Oof. Instant failure.
WSL is quite nice ;)
22GB
Actually running it requires at minimum 70G of diskspace (see bottom of page). Not even clear if that includes the 22GB download.
Likely to be as close to a production Windows environment as possible.