UNRWA-Hamas Relations(scribd.com)
scribd.com
UNRWA-Hamas Relations
https://www.scribd.com/document/702738861/Swords-of-Iron-UNRWA-Hamas-Relations
52 comments
Israel did have whatever intelligence that it could gather and made a lot effort there – https://www.newsweek.com/israel-implemented-more-measures-pr..., and Hamas is to blame for the civilian deaths. Hamas also openly says that – “And we are proud to sacrifice martyrs.” https://www.algemeiner.com/2023/12/08/hamas-says-it-is-proud...
Your first link is some random opinion piece with zero evidence provided. Why are you posting that?
your answers are useless thoughtless blabbering without touching on any of the points, why are you posting this?
There is nothing to comment on. It’s an opinion piece making claims with no evidence. Try and post real things and you’ll get real comments.
what are you implying? that Israel purposefully killed Palestinians?
I’m curious there – if you are caring about innocent Arab lives – what other human suffering in Arab countries are you following closely and making cynical remarks about?
I’m curious there – if you are caring about innocent Arab lives – what other human suffering in Arab countries are you following closely and making cynical remarks about?
Simple answer there: the countries where that suffering is being carried out by institutions armed and funded by my tax dollars.
As soon as the American military assets are pulled from the region, Israel is welcome to try their luck with their neighbors (I'm actually eager to see it at this point, considering they lost to Hezbollah alone in 2006). Until then, they should get used to us caring about what atrocities our tax dollars are funding.
As soon as the American military assets are pulled from the region, Israel is welcome to try their luck with their neighbors (I'm actually eager to see it at this point, considering they lost to Hezbollah alone in 2006). Until then, they should get used to us caring about what atrocities our tax dollars are funding.
They have and are killing Palestinians on purpose. You don’t kill 30k+ and displace millions by not doing that. You don’t murder civilians carrying white flags if you’re not trying to kill them.
You are a demonising antisemite, that’s all. I wish for your family to never have to run to the bomb shelters or bury a relative who was killed by a terrorist.
Your parent was only ever talking about the state of Israel, they never mentioned the Jewish religion nor the Jewish ethnicity. They only mentioned a plausible intent which is as been ruled by the world’s highest court as plausible.
If you want to deem your parent an anti-semite, then you’ll have to deem pretty much everybody outside of Israel and even many people inside Israel (including the ad-hoc Israeli judge that ruled against Israel at the ICJ).
As a survivor of a volcanic eruption in Grindavík, with the future live of my home town uncertain, and my family turned refugees, I can sympathize with people that have to live in fear of a terrorist bomb hitting their home and have to occasionally flee to bomb shelter. But that is not what your parent was talking about, was it.
Me and my family don’t know half of what the people in Gaza are going through. Heck, me and my family don’t know 2^-10 of what is going on in Gaza. And if you have had to run to bomb shelters a couple of dozens of times, it still does not come even close to 2^-10 of the horrors the people of Gaza have to go through, as they are very plausibly living though being victims of a genocide.
If you want to deem your parent an anti-semite, then you’ll have to deem pretty much everybody outside of Israel and even many people inside Israel (including the ad-hoc Israeli judge that ruled against Israel at the ICJ).
As a survivor of a volcanic eruption in Grindavík, with the future live of my home town uncertain, and my family turned refugees, I can sympathize with people that have to live in fear of a terrorist bomb hitting their home and have to occasionally flee to bomb shelter. But that is not what your parent was talking about, was it.
Me and my family don’t know half of what the people in Gaza are going through. Heck, me and my family don’t know 2^-10 of what is going on in Gaza. And if you have had to run to bomb shelters a couple of dozens of times, it still does not come even close to 2^-10 of the horrors the people of Gaza have to go through, as they are very plausibly living though being victims of a genocide.
> Your parent was only ever talking about the state of Israel, they never mentioned the Jewish religion nor the Jewish ethnicity.
In that comment. Look at their other comments and you can see a clearer picture of trollish hate.
In that comment. Look at their other comments and you can see a clearer picture of trollish hate.
Which one in particular? I’ve read through them all, there are some directed at zionism (which is an ideology) some at the state of Israel or the Israel military, none at Jewish people in general or the Jewish ethnicity. There were two which can be considered trollish (one of which was flagged; and to be frank, not much more trollish as posts by my parent) but nothing even remotely hateful other then towards an ideology or a particular government. Nothing that warrants being called “a demonising antisemite” by my parent.
and you don’t blame Hamas for "what is going on in Gaza", why?
Hasbara is being very heavy handed these days. Hard to not see the connection between this campaign and the ICJ's decision on temporary measures in the genocide case, as the campaign was launched immediately after the decision was announced.
One has to assume this kind of propaganda isn't supposed to convince any objective observer but rather to provide cover to allow ongoing operations to continue for as long as possible before they get checked by the US.
So, the intelligence shared by the official elected government of one western country to the governments of other western countries and the UN is "kind of propaganda". What is "objective observer" is supposed to believe, what kind of source would be persuasive for the objective observer? Honest question.
Yeah Western govs use Intel agencies for propaganda. This is very well documented
dear propaganda-meter person, please answer which sources are good for the propaganda-sensing objective observer?
what a surprise, no answer on your sources. I assume boasting you are reading Twitter and watching TikTok is not going to make your points be respected better by "objective observers".
I want you to answer me, which bits are untrue in the following report: https://www.rootsmetals.com/blogs/news/unrwa-an-update
Is it quotes of UN managers who say “being part of hamas is not a crime” in 2004? or is it the videos of UN equipment being used by terrorists during October 7? or the videos of hostages from the personal phones of UN workers?
Please enlighten us!
Is it quotes of UN managers who say “being part of hamas is not a crime” in 2004? or is it the videos of UN equipment being used by terrorists during October 7? or the videos of hostages from the personal phones of UN workers?
Please enlighten us!
Hamas has political orgs as well as militant, so that page isn’t the own you think it is. Not to mention why are you bringing up things from 20 years ago to try and prove a point about something now?
Edit: actually read it all and there is zero evidence provided. She says citations in her insta or patreon but there is nothing there. This is straight up hasbara propaganda.
Edit: actually read it all and there is zero evidence provided. She says citations in her insta or patreon but there is nothing there. This is straight up hasbara propaganda.
you are also a Russian appeaser, really no sense in talking to hamas-russia supporter. you might be on Iran’s pay check – spreading your axis-of-evil bullshit.
I love zionists like you. Your claims are so deranged to any normal person, but you lack the self awareness to see just how unhinged you sound.
yeah it’s cool that UN hires active terrorists and that the West sponsors that, is that you are saying? or are you saying this not true? What are you actually saying?
It's not true. Out of 13000 employees a dozen were found to have committed acts of terrorism and were fired immediately once this was found out. That is definitely not "hiring active terrorists". It's what any org of that size would do.
A dozen were accused, and summarily terminated.
There has not been an investigation at this point. At least two of them are already dead.
Meanwhile, back at the too big to fail bank land, HSBC was found doing business with actual terrorist organizations, cartels, and engaging in government corruption, and they paid a fine that they themselves were able to set, and then go about their day. But a humanitarian organization that millions rely on for day to day life due to an occupying force that can't be bothered to comply with international law must be held to a higher standard. Or something.
There has not been an investigation at this point. At least two of them are already dead.
Meanwhile, back at the too big to fail bank land, HSBC was found doing business with actual terrorist organizations, cartels, and engaging in government corruption, and they paid a fine that they themselves were able to set, and then go about their day. But a humanitarian organization that millions rely on for day to day life due to an occupying force that can't be bothered to comply with international law must be held to a higher standard. Or something.
point 1 in the linked document: "Out of approx. 12,000 UNRWA employees in GS, about 10% arc Hamas/PI operatives and about 50% are first degree relatives with a Hamas operative."
and you know it’s not true, how?
Most western governments, United States, Germany, Japan, Italy, the United Kingdom and France suspended funding based on intelligence that is worse than yours, so the world requires the source of information you have, so that less bad decisions are made. Please share!
and you know it’s not true, how?
Most western governments, United States, Germany, Japan, Italy, the United Kingdom and France suspended funding based on intelligence that is worse than yours, so the world requires the source of information you have, so that less bad decisions are made. Please share!
This is some nonsense.
So if I work at Google which has 156k employees, everyone would be ok when 156 of my coworkers murdered my children one day? Just the cost of working in an organization this size!
50k people work at my university. So 50 of them are about to sneak into our house and murder us?
Think about how stupid that line of thought is. If this was true for any organization we would have terrorist attacks all the time. We couldn't have a society with these numbers.
No this isn't what an org of this size should do.
These numbers are astronomical. UNRWA was infiltrated and its special access and privileges were to commit mass murder. Unless it radically changes it shouldn't exist anymore.
So if I work at Google which has 156k employees, everyone would be ok when 156 of my coworkers murdered my children one day? Just the cost of working in an organization this size!
50k people work at my university. So 50 of them are about to sneak into our house and murder us?
Think about how stupid that line of thought is. If this was true for any organization we would have terrorist attacks all the time. We couldn't have a society with these numbers.
No this isn't what an org of this size should do.
These numbers are astronomical. UNRWA was infiltrated and its special access and privileges were to commit mass murder. Unless it radically changes it shouldn't exist anymore.
Gaza is a ghetto controlled by a genocidal group at war with another genocidal group. It's an active war zone. It's not comparable to Silicon Valley. How does the 0.001% of employees being accused of involvement in the October 7 attack compare with the adult population of Gaza? How does it compare with the adult population of Israel and involvement in attacks on Gazan civilians?
I think you are holding UNRWA to an impossible standard, and I think it's up to those who think it should be able to meet that standard to propose an alternative before proposing its abolition.
I think you are holding UNRWA to an impossible standard, and I think it's up to those who think it should be able to meet that standard to propose an alternative before proposing its abolition.
A relief agency that employs terrorists is being held to an impossible standard you think? It’s an impossible standard to not hire people who kill, kidnap and rape?
And btw, 12 out 12000 is 0,1%. Also, it’s more like 10% btw, and 50% having personal family ties to Hamas.
And btw, 12 out 12000 is 0,1%. Also, it’s more like 10% btw, and 50% having personal family ties to Hamas.
Sorry, that should have been 0.1%.
The claim about 10% doesn't seem to say much. What does it mean exactly for someone to be a "Hamas/PIJ operative"? Has UNRWA been told who these people are and what they have done? I suspect we will eventually find out if there was any truth behind the allegations against the 12 (or 13) specific people accused of involvement in the attack, but I doubt we will ever learn anything about the 10%. The 50% is completely meaningless. People are responsible for their own individual actions, not those of their family members.
My question remains, are UNRWA employees more likely to have been involved in or associated with atrocities than the average person in the region? Involvement and association doesn't necessarily mean that they personally committed those atrocities. How does this compare with the average Palestinian or Israeli? Should I boycott an Israeli company if 0.1% of their employees were involved in the commission of war crimes or other atrocities in the IDF, even if they were fired/suspended when the accusation came to light, and no one seems to be able to suggest what they should have done differently to avoid hiring them?
The claim about 10% doesn't seem to say much. What does it mean exactly for someone to be a "Hamas/PIJ operative"? Has UNRWA been told who these people are and what they have done? I suspect we will eventually find out if there was any truth behind the allegations against the 12 (or 13) specific people accused of involvement in the attack, but I doubt we will ever learn anything about the 10%. The 50% is completely meaningless. People are responsible for their own individual actions, not those of their family members.
My question remains, are UNRWA employees more likely to have been involved in or associated with atrocities than the average person in the region? Involvement and association doesn't necessarily mean that they personally committed those atrocities. How does this compare with the average Palestinian or Israeli? Should I boycott an Israeli company if 0.1% of their employees were involved in the commission of war crimes or other atrocities in the IDF, even if they were fired/suspended when the accusation came to light, and no one seems to be able to suggest what they should have done differently to avoid hiring them?
so do you think that in a family where father is launching rockets indiscriminately at people, the mom will be teaching children about coexistance and building a peace loving community?
When you're facing an illegal occupation, firing rockets back is called resistance, and there's a reason it is widely recognized as legitimate.
As for how indiscriminate it is, hard to take seriously from someone who's defending a regime that has actively carpet bombed cities for the past 4 months.
As for how indiscriminate it is, hard to take seriously from someone who's defending a regime that has actively carpet bombed cities for the past 4 months.
widely recognized as legitimate? indiscriminate rocket launches at villages, towns and cities is a war crime and is not recognized ny anyone apart from purple haired 19 yo tiktok watchers, there is not a single official entity apart from Iran-proxies who see that as legitimate resistance, you are absolutely insane suggesting that
if israel “carpet bombed cities” how many victims would there be? you are a hate inciting antisemite
I don’t care what individuals boycott. I care about hundreds of millions of euros going for support of terrorism.
You know what’s relief? Medicine, food, re-settling.
You know what’s not relief? Teaching children to martyr for the profit of some disgusting Putin/Ayatollah friends.
You know what’s relief? Medicine, food, re-settling.
You know what’s not relief? Teaching children to martyr for the profit of some disgusting Putin/Ayatollah friends.
If we're not funding and arming organizations known for killing, kidnapping, and raping, I'm glad to hear the IDF will not longer be receiving arms manufactured in the US and UK.
Meanwhile, it's amusing the rape claims keep coming, even though not one woman has actually claimed that she was raped. But sure, it was widespread. Most certainly near the pile of 40 beheaded babies. Except, whoops, Haaretz reported the list of those killed on 10/7, and only one person was under the age of 3. Given the number of those killed by the IDF themselves due to the Hannibal protocol, there's a pretty high chance even that one wasn't killed by Hamas, who was more interested in military targets.
There's a reason all the songs go "lie lie lie lie lie lie..."
Meanwhile, it's amusing the rape claims keep coming, even though not one woman has actually claimed that she was raped. But sure, it was widespread. Most certainly near the pile of 40 beheaded babies. Except, whoops, Haaretz reported the list of those killed on 10/7, and only one person was under the age of 3. Given the number of those killed by the IDF themselves due to the Hannibal protocol, there's a pretty high chance even that one wasn't killed by Hamas, who was more interested in military targets.
There's a reason all the songs go "lie lie lie lie lie lie..."
The original person said that this is standard for any organization. So that's false then?
Now you're saying that it's normal for any organization in a war zone to include 0.1% terrorists in it?
That means that the UNCHR, which operates in the same environments, has had 20 ISIS members among their ranks that participated in terrorist attacks? Nope.
That UN peacekeeping missions like the one in Kosovo just went around murdering a few people here and there? Nope.
It's not true that to operate in these environments you need to include terrorists among your ranks. No one else does.
The UNRWA decided a long time ago that it was easier to work with Hamas. That's just unacceptable for an international organization.
Also, accusing Israel, who literally left Gaza to the locals and forcefully displaced its own people to do so, of genocide is absurd. Israel gave Gazans what they wanted: autonomy. They then elected a genocidal organization.
Now you're saying that it's normal for any organization in a war zone to include 0.1% terrorists in it?
That means that the UNCHR, which operates in the same environments, has had 20 ISIS members among their ranks that participated in terrorist attacks? Nope.
That UN peacekeeping missions like the one in Kosovo just went around murdering a few people here and there? Nope.
It's not true that to operate in these environments you need to include terrorists among your ranks. No one else does.
The UNRWA decided a long time ago that it was easier to work with Hamas. That's just unacceptable for an international organization.
Also, accusing Israel, who literally left Gaza to the locals and forcefully displaced its own people to do so, of genocide is absurd. Israel gave Gazans what they wanted: autonomy. They then elected a genocidal organization.
12 or 13 employees in an organization being accused of terrorism or war crimes doesn't necessarily mean the organization is complicit in those acts, or could have foreseen the situation. This is especially the case in a region where such acts are common.
Did UNHCR operate in ISIS territory? I could be wrong, but I don't believe they ever did. The UN peacekeepers in Kosovo were not from the region, so that comparison doesn't make sense. Do you think it would be possible for UNRWA to recruit a sufficient number of people who do not already live in Gaza to move there and work for them, considering the rate at which UNRWA employees have been killed so far? You still have not said what UNRWA should have done differently.
My understanding is that the Israeli government never ended the occupation of Gaza in a way that could have allowed it to function as anything more than a ghetto or open-air prison. They forcefully removed their citizens from the territory, but did they ever end the blockade? Was there even a day when people in Gaza could import and export goods, generate electricity, or travel in and out of the territory without Israeli permission?
It makes no sense to solely blame the Palestinians for Hamas controlling Gaza when the Israeli government created the conditions that allowed them to seize power and the current prime minister of Israel has said: "Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas [...] This is part of our strategy — to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank."
Did UNHCR operate in ISIS territory? I could be wrong, but I don't believe they ever did. The UN peacekeepers in Kosovo were not from the region, so that comparison doesn't make sense. Do you think it would be possible for UNRWA to recruit a sufficient number of people who do not already live in Gaza to move there and work for them, considering the rate at which UNRWA employees have been killed so far? You still have not said what UNRWA should have done differently.
My understanding is that the Israeli government never ended the occupation of Gaza in a way that could have allowed it to function as anything more than a ghetto or open-air prison. They forcefully removed their citizens from the territory, but did they ever end the blockade? Was there even a day when people in Gaza could import and export goods, generate electricity, or travel in and out of the territory without Israeli permission?
It makes no sense to solely blame the Palestinians for Hamas controlling Gaza when the Israeli government created the conditions that allowed them to seize power and the current prime minister of Israel has said: "Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas [...] This is part of our strategy — to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank."
I'm amused that "they were fired immediately" seems a relevant mitigation to participating in murder, rape, and kidnapping.
If one believes the "occupied Palestine should be free" narrative, why should they be fired instead of promoted?
If one believes the "occupied Palestine should be free" narrative, why should they be fired instead of promoted?
This they have intel on. Other things... ah... they just didn't.