ThinkPad T14 Gen 5 includes SODIMM slots and user-replaceable batteries(theverge.com)
theverge.com
ThinkPad T14 Gen 5 includes SODIMM slots and user-replaceable batteries
https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/25/24081225/lenovo-thinkpad-thinkbook-laptops-mwc-2024
68 comments
Who are the "geniuses" at Lenovo who are trying to destroy the legacy of the awesome Thinkpad keyboard? As a Thinkpad user I expect a certain keyboard layout. If that layout is changed, there one less reason for me to buy a Thinkpad as my next laptop.
You can swap the Ctrl & Fn keys (as you always could) via BIOS, and I'm guessing the copilot key can just be rebound in software. (If not officially I'm sure someone will make a utility)
Theoretically I can map any keyboard layout to anything else, but what's the point of getting a Thinkpad then if it doesn't look and feel like a Thinkpad anymore?
Key travel was also reduced.
Comes with a Copilot Key, so that model is off my list. We have enough dumb M/S Windows Keys already.
I thought MS was basically mandating that key now. Still terrible though, now I need to put two stickers on my keyboard instead of just one. I'd even pay to get two extra key caps to swap that and the Windows logo out. It's silly that my current T14 was bought new from Lenovo with Ubuntu on it, yet still has that damn logo.
Crazy how I only just heard about it right now.
Just rebind it?
Yes I can, but that is not the issue.
I have seen the space bar shrink and shrink. If they added these really useless keys somewhere else, like a tiny button above the F-keys I would not care.
I want a easy to get at space bar, at this rate the space bar will eventually be the size of a regular key. To me it is already too small.
I have seen the space bar shrink and shrink. If they added these really useless keys somewhere else, like a tiny button above the F-keys I would not care.
I want a easy to get at space bar, at this rate the space bar will eventually be the size of a regular key. To me it is already too small.
I see, opposite for me: space bar is already a giant waste of a space in a prime ergonomic real estate of your strongest fingers, can't wait till it becomes a regular key that it is in non-ergonomic keybords. And these buttons aren't useless precisely because you can rebind them to something useful, even space if you need more space for it
Doesn't seem to ship with Linux :(
I may be missing some nuance and/or perspective here, but is this truly an issue? I've used Dell, HP, Lenovo/Thinkpad, and most recently Framework laptops over the last 15 years, and only one of them offered an out-of-the-box Linux experience. _All_ of them ran Linux (ArchLinux and Fedora) fine if I installed it myself.
Is the concern surrounding having to install Linux yourself (valid concern), or around vendor support (subtle BIOS issues, lack of trackpad support, etc)?
Edit: Emphasizing my "fine" experience with Linux.
Is the concern surrounding having to install Linux yourself (valid concern), or around vendor support (subtle BIOS issues, lack of trackpad support, etc)?
Edit: Emphasizing my "fine" experience with Linux.
Vendor support.
Shipping with Linux is a good indicator that it's Linux compatible. Buying computers with Linux is also a way of voting for Linux compatibility - even if you reinstall your preferred distro afterwards.
Shipping with Linux is a good indicator that it's Linux compatible. Buying computers with Linux is also a way of voting for Linux compatibility - even if you reinstall your preferred distro afterwards.
That's good news, we can upgrade the RAM without paying ridiculous premiums.
ThinkPad E14 Gen 5, which I ordered recently (using student discount), have memory slots as well. It also has 2nd SSD slot.
I hope the display is 16:10 or taller. Really need more vertical real estate than 16:9.
I think it started with Dell (besides Mac of course!) and now all vendors are going with 16:10 for last 3-4 years or so.
I understand supply chain might have been optimized for this display ratio now but what caused this change instead of just continuing with 16:9 remains unknown to me.
I understand supply chain might have been optimized for this display ratio now but what caused this change instead of just continuing with 16:9 remains unknown to me.
I had a 15" 16:10 1920x1200 display on a relatively-inexpensive Dell laptop back in (checks notes) 2005.
I have a circa-2008 Dell Precision M4400 with a similar 15.4” 1920x1200 display. Still looks pretty solid by modern standards!
16:10 was pretty common in laptops until the HD marketing craze kicked in, which plagued us with those infernal 1366x768 panels that can still be found in bargain basement laptops to this day. It started in consumer laptops but eventually business/workstation laptops succumbed too, with the only big name holdout being Apple (which only ever made one 16:9 laptop, the somewhat-maligned 11” MacBook Air).
Heck it was common in desktop monitors too. For a long time Apple and Dell’s flagship monitors were 30” 2560x1600. This category unfortunately has yet to escape the 16:9 curse…
16:10 was pretty common in laptops until the HD marketing craze kicked in, which plagued us with those infernal 1366x768 panels that can still be found in bargain basement laptops to this day. It started in consumer laptops but eventually business/workstation laptops succumbed too, with the only big name holdout being Apple (which only ever made one 16:9 laptop, the somewhat-maligned 11” MacBook Air).
Heck it was common in desktop monitors too. For a long time Apple and Dell’s flagship monitors were 30” 2560x1600. This category unfortunately has yet to escape the 16:9 curse…
I still have a Dell Latitude D820 kicking around at home with the same display specs. I threw in a 256gb SSD, 4GB of RAM, and might have upgraded the CPU (can't remember exactly). According to what I can find online, it retailed for $2290 USD ($3500 today adjusting for inflation). I'm assuming you are talking about the non-business line Dell had back then (Inspiron?) if it was inexpensive.
I'm always surprised by how circular technology can seem, even hardware. Obviously display technology has gotten a lot better over the years (IPS/OLED, lower power consumption, higher max brightness) but the fact that I'd be perfectly happy with a laptop with a 16:10 1920x1200 display today (almost 20 years later) is funny to me.
I'm always surprised by how circular technology can seem, even hardware. Obviously display technology has gotten a lot better over the years (IPS/OLED, lower power consumption, higher max brightness) but the fact that I'd be perfectly happy with a laptop with a 16:10 1920x1200 display today (almost 20 years later) is funny to me.
Except for the Surface Laptop 3; has been 3:2 since 2019, before Dell.
Huawei Matebook X pro has been 3:2 since 2018
16:10 for the T14s.
while this would be nice, time to get some columns in your workflow?
My plan: Thinkpad with 96GB DDR5 SO-DIMM, and testing big LLMs
> $1200
Does it have to be that expensive, or is there some novelty premium (like that of Apple products) involved?
Lenovo's own Legion and IdeaPad Gaming series offer models with superior specs, vibrant screens and even (subjectively) better builds in many cases, at a lower price.
Does it have to be that expensive, or is there some novelty premium (like that of Apple products) involved?
Lenovo's own Legion and IdeaPad Gaming series offer models with superior specs, vibrant screens and even (subjectively) better builds in many cases, at a lower price.
It's just how Lenovo does pricing. As soon as they stop being backordered, they're going to be available at much lower prices, and it helps Lenovo have a better negotiating position as far as volume discounts are concerned for companies who will be ordering them.
It's not like, say, Apple where the price is the price.
For example, the T14 Gen 4 base AMD (7540u, 16gb) is 1400$ MSRP, but you've been able to get it for 840$ for a very long time now. It will be the same for this one.
It's not like, say, Apple where the price is the price.
For example, the T14 Gen 4 base AMD (7540u, 16gb) is 1400$ MSRP, but you've been able to get it for 840$ for a very long time now. It will be the same for this one.
It's not like, say, Apple where the price is the price.
You can walk into an Apple Store, flash an employee badge from any number of companies, and get "Employee Purchase Program" price which is 4-8% off varying by SKU. Doesn't work for products at launch, seems to kick in around 12 weeks after. That's got me 8% off a Mac Studio and Pro Display XDR for personal needs. Whoever is assisting you in the Apple Store can lookup on their iPhone whether your employer gets EPP (and they're usually very happy to help!).
Buying in bulk from Apple as a business? You'll get at least 8% and potentially a fair amount more depending on your annual volume.
Apple discounts. Perhaps not as much as Lenovo. But the price is not the price.
You can walk into an Apple Store, flash an employee badge from any number of companies, and get "Employee Purchase Program" price which is 4-8% off varying by SKU. Doesn't work for products at launch, seems to kick in around 12 weeks after. That's got me 8% off a Mac Studio and Pro Display XDR for personal needs. Whoever is assisting you in the Apple Store can lookup on their iPhone whether your employer gets EPP (and they're usually very happy to help!).
Buying in bulk from Apple as a business? You'll get at least 8% and potentially a fair amount more depending on your annual volume.
Apple discounts. Perhaps not as much as Lenovo. But the price is not the price.
Fair enough. What I meant by that is that you don't really expect discounts to come quickly, but yes Apple does do EPPs, and modest bulk programs, they also do student discounts.
What I meant is that they very rarely if ever run general-public sales for up-to-date products.
What I meant is that they very rarely if ever run general-public sales for up-to-date products.
> The iFixit team was on-hand to advise the overall design, so there are plenty of customer replaceable parts, making it easy to swap out the DIMM, SSD, WWAN card and battery, among other components
So not the display nor the keyboard, the parts that most commonly need to be replaced.
DIMMs and SSD slots are already standard aside from Apple machines and WWAN functionality has damn near always been a slotted card. All Lenovo did was make the battery easy to replace, really. That got them a 9.3 out of 10?
I'm going to take a wild guess that iFixit got a contract for parts or something in exchange for stroking Lenovo's, uh, Trackpoint?
So not the display nor the keyboard, the parts that most commonly need to be replaced.
DIMMs and SSD slots are already standard aside from Apple machines and WWAN functionality has damn near always been a slotted card. All Lenovo did was make the battery easy to replace, really. That got them a 9.3 out of 10?
I'm going to take a wild guess that iFixit got a contract for parts or something in exchange for stroking Lenovo's, uh, Trackpoint?
Historically, Thinkpad T-series keyboards were pretty easy to swap. I don't think I've ever used one where the keyboard was really challenging to remove.
See the Gen 3's. Two standard screws, a couple ribbon cables. I'd be amazed if it was more than this.
It seems like you're just entirely ignoring the "among other components" you quoted yourself.
DIMMs, SSDs, and WiFi slots are standardized, but more and more devices are shipping with everything soldered to the board. Its not just Apple.
See the Gen 3's. Two standard screws, a couple ribbon cables. I'd be amazed if it was more than this.
It seems like you're just entirely ignoring the "among other components" you quoted yourself.
DIMMs, SSDs, and WiFi slots are standardized, but more and more devices are shipping with everything soldered to the board. Its not just Apple.
The displays on the T series are relatively easy to replace too, and you can even usually upgrade too if you bought one with one of the lower resolutions - I keep thinking about upgrading the 1400x900 to 1920x1080 on mine, but the cost of the 1080p display is such that it'd almost be worth getting a newer used T series instead.
You're going to make the Framework fans have an epiphany if you keep that up.
> So not the display nor the keyboard, the parts that most commonly need to be replaced.
I'm sorry but the most common part by far is the battery and maybe the SSD followed by RAM. The last 2 are usually upgrades, not repairs. I have done a decent number of WiFi card swaps as well, to get rid of unreliable Realtek and MTK cards. I have never had to do a screen or kb swap for any laptop in my family or friend group. Keep in mind this is all based on like 15-20 laptops I had come across in the last few years.
I'm sorry but the most common part by far is the battery and maybe the SSD followed by RAM. The last 2 are usually upgrades, not repairs. I have done a decent number of WiFi card swaps as well, to get rid of unreliable Realtek and MTK cards. I have never had to do a screen or kb swap for any laptop in my family or friend group. Keep in mind this is all based on like 15-20 laptops I had come across in the last few years.
How do you tell which models have good build quality? I've been pretty unimpressed with half the laptops I've seen from Lenovo, particularly the display hinges.
Swapped fn and Ctrl, and added new copilot key..
Copilot key is merely a is repurposed context-menu.
And I really hate when they do that. The context menu key press event is different from pressing Shift+F10. I've skipped over many keyboard purchases because they omit that button.
And I really hate when they do that. The context menu key press event is different from pressing Shift+F10. I've skipped over many keyboard purchases because they omit that button.
> Swapped fn and Ctrl
Finally! I hope they do the same for the X-series, so I can justify the upgrade from my old X280.
Finally! I hope they do the same for the X-series, so I can justify the upgrade from my old X280.
There's a BIOS option to swap the keys.
Always has been. Sure confuses other folks when they have to type something and the words on the keys are wrong though.
There is, but the key sizes are just different enough that I can't swap the caps.
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Copilot? I believe you meant 'Super_2' =)
Now if only they swapped ctrl with caps lock
You misspelled "esc". :-)
What are you, a vim user? Just remap jj and leave caps lock for people who need to hold down a key with their pinkies :p
I've been meaning to do that jj hack.:w
Seriously though,I have a QMK keyboard that makes caps lock an esc when you press it and ctrl when you hold it. We don't need to compromise.
Same here, but I have my caps lock an esc when I tap it and windows key when I hold it (I use it for my window manager). I have z and / as ctrl when I hold them.
What kind of hardware are you on? I'm on an ErgoDox Ez
What kind of hardware are you on? I'm on an ErgoDox Ez
Also ErgoDox Ez :)
I also have a Plank, but I just always go back to the ergodox. I just love that keyboard.
I also have a Plank, but I just always go back to the ergodox. I just love that keyboard.
i had to check: the copilot key is where the print screen key is on my 8 years old t14. Useless for useless.
I appreciate having a print screen key. I don't take screenshots exceedingly often, but when I do, it's easy to take them. (Full disclosure: I run Linux, where the print screen key launches the screenshot app instead of copying your screen to the clipboard (although I think Microsoft may have changed that for Windows).)
Well, everyone has their usecases. I'm running Linux too, I kinda need to replace my old pc and I'm hoping this year model to be fully supported by Linux quickly. Let's hope
I would like to see a tablet with easy battery access. No Androids/iOS.
It's not exactly a tablet but the Supernote Nomad has a swappable battery (and will eventually have a linux OS option)
...and given Lenovo's history, a guaranteed chance of being full of bloatware and quite possibly spyware/malware as well.
Anyone who buys a Lenovo and doesn't wipe the drive and reinstall from factory MS images is asking for trouble.
Anyone who buys a Lenovo and doesn't wipe the drive and reinstall from factory MS images is asking for trouble.
Any computer should be wiped and installed fresh after purchase. But Lenovo ThinkPad systems (as compared to their consumer systems) are better than most. They seem to know not to mess with ThinkPad.
Now that the bios has the license key, isn't it pretty simple to wipe / reinstall from the MS image?
These days UEFI/ME are backdoored at best anyways
lenovo embeds malware in the bios now and it gets reinjected regardless of how you wipe.
Got a source please? I know Lenovo had the scandal years ago, but they (reportedly) stopped doing this. As the the owner of a T14, if something fishy is still going on, I'd like to know.
Not that it makes installing crapware any better, let alone outright spyware, but that doesn't affect ThinkPads. Lenovo probably has too much to lose in terms of reputation in the business world to do that with ThinkPads.
eh, all the big motherboard makers like Asus MSI Gigabyte love to use that feature to load in their bloat as well on their motherboards
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Garbage computers. Make sure you at least get the premium support option so you can get a full refund when you discover what a piece of shit your laptop is.