Apple planning default navigation app setting in iOS 18 for EU users(9to5mac.com)
9to5mac.com
Apple planning default navigation app setting in iOS 18 for EU users
https://9to5mac.com/2024/03/07/apple-planning-default-navigation-app-setting-in-ios-18-for-eu-users/
54 comments
>>> How about the rest of us?
you can ask for an European citizenship.
Or you can ask your government to protect its citizen from monopolies
you can ask for an European citizenship.
Or you can ask your government to protect its citizen from monopolies
Citizenship is not enough, you have to live in the EU.
The exact wording is "end users established or located in the Union". I haven't looked up exactly what "established" is defined as in this case, but it may have broader implications than merely "living in the EU".
So then even a resident permit would be enough, because you don't need citizenship to be able to live in EU.
Maybe. I’m actually curious how they are going to gate it. Because I’m originally from the US, I have access to US things still (like Apple Cash). I’ve migrated my account years ago, and my phone’s region is set to my EU one.
App Store Account (ie. billing address) country isn't enough this time around, Apple enforces via "on-device processing" of physical location
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/118110#:~:text=Availability%...
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/118110#:~:text=Availability%...
There's some investigation as to how Apple uses countryd to determine what jurisdiction you're in.
>[countryd] combines multiple data such as current GPS location, country code from the Wi-Fi router, and information obtained from the SIM card to determine the country the user is in.
https://9to5mac.com/2023/04/25/ios-16-restrict-features-base...
Since I imagine you have a European Wi-Fi router, SIM card and GPS location, there's a good chance you'll get the EU features.
>[countryd] combines multiple data such as current GPS location, country code from the Wi-Fi router, and information obtained from the SIM card to determine the country the user is in.
https://9to5mac.com/2023/04/25/ios-16-restrict-features-base...
Since I imagine you have a European Wi-Fi router, SIM card and GPS location, there's a good chance you'll get the EU features.
Dual sim, actually. One is a US sim, the other an EU sim.
Wifi router isn't set to an EU jurisdiction to get higher power and get through some walls.
There's so many edge cases, there's no way they'll get it perfectly the first time. It's like asking for getting sued.
Wifi router isn't set to an EU jurisdiction to get higher power and get through some walls.
There's so many edge cases, there's no way they'll get it perfectly the first time. It's like asking for getting sued.
I read somewhere that Apple ID region will be part of it. Given they don't let you transfer your purchases from one Apple ID region to another, it'll be a nightmare for people living in the EU but using a US Apple ID account.
I feel like that’s a bit disingenuous to what actually happens when you change regions. As they explained to me before I switched:
1. All my content would stay in the old region. If I ever go back, I will still have all that content.
2. In my new region, content will be matched. If there is matching content, I will have a license for it. Otherwise, I will lose access to the content until I change my region back.
I accepted and that’s what happened. Some of my old playlists are full of content I can’t play here (for the better playlists, I just got the EU version of the song and deleted the US version). I still see most of my apps and movies/shows in library. Some apps that are US only stopped updating until they eventually stopped working.
1. All my content would stay in the old region. If I ever go back, I will still have all that content.
2. In my new region, content will be matched. If there is matching content, I will have a license for it. Otherwise, I will lose access to the content until I change my region back.
I accepted and that’s what happened. Some of my old playlists are full of content I can’t play here (for the better playlists, I just got the EU version of the song and deleted the US version). I still see most of my apps and movies/shows in library. Some apps that are US only stopped updating until they eventually stopped working.
Interesting. It's been a decade since I looked into this but unless I was just unlucky and no content matched, your second point is a big improvement since then.
I did this in 2018, and I had to do it over the phone because my account was bugged (stuck in an infinite loop, and even on the phone I was eventually handed off to someone relatively high-up in the corporate ladder, after six hours of being passed around to various departments) and I remember her mentioning that it was relatively new.
I don’t even believe that would be required. Providing proof of residence or citizenship would likely be considered excessive under the GDPR.
I anal but I understand that in the US, it is unlawful to falsely claim to be a US citizen. I don't know if the EU has something similar?
I am also not a lawyer, but asking if someone is an EU citizen is probably not acceptable in and of itself.
The DMA Chapter 1 Article 1 section 2 makes it clear that the requirement applies to services offered to users “established or located” in the EU.
You can be located in the EU without a residence permit or citizenship perfectly legally (and it’s not even clear whether being LEGALLY located or established in the EU is a requirement).
The DMA Chapter 1 Article 1 section 2 makes it clear that the requirement applies to services offered to users “established or located” in the EU.
You can be located in the EU without a residence permit or citizenship perfectly legally (and it’s not even clear whether being LEGALLY located or established in the EU is a requirement).
I don’t think either option is actionable. I live in Australia, with a population so negligible and ignorant of privacy that even if someone in government somehow did give a shit, even major entities like Apple might find it more economical to just pull out entirely.
And ‘just asking’ for citizenship is a little bit of a stretch, as is relocating to Europe.
And ‘just asking’ for citizenship is a little bit of a stretch, as is relocating to Europe.
And to add, this isn’t about where I live or my government, this is about apple choosing to be monopolistic assholes.
They have some excellent engineering, as does Microsoft, but the unscrupulous business side leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
They have some excellent engineering, as does Microsoft, but the unscrupulous business side leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
> Or you can ask your government to protect its citizen from monopolies
that’s one take. i got a different one:
the ship has already sailed almost two decades ago. that’s when these kinds of solutions should have been implemented.
today euro politicians decided to micromanage US tech companies because they don’t have any themselves. they’ll use the fine money to promote truly innovative companies such as France Telecom.
meanwhile in the real world i just got an email from one of my european clients to not use anything other than safari and to not install any 3rd party app stores or apps due to security concerns.
that’s one take. i got a different one:
the ship has already sailed almost two decades ago. that’s when these kinds of solutions should have been implemented.
today euro politicians decided to micromanage US tech companies because they don’t have any themselves. they’ll use the fine money to promote truly innovative companies such as France Telecom.
meanwhile in the real world i just got an email from one of my european clients to not use anything other than safari and to not install any 3rd party app stores or apps due to security concerns.
An HN comment explains the difference [0]:
> The key nuance that triggered the government lawsuit was anti-competitive actions such as using obscure/undocumented Windows API functions to cripple Netscape and forcing computer manufacturers to avoid other software when licensing DOS/Windows. All of that is in the long document: https://www.justice.gov/atr/us-v-microsoft-courts-findings-f...
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28256669
> The key nuance that triggered the government lawsuit was anti-competitive actions such as using obscure/undocumented Windows API functions to cripple Netscape and forcing computer manufacturers to avoid other software when licensing DOS/Windows. All of that is in the long document: https://www.justice.gov/atr/us-v-microsoft-courts-findings-f...
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28256669
I can make the exact same argument for iOS, anything non-Apple which is still permitted is crippled and their Apple equivalent are using undocumented private APIs.
No 3rd party manufacturer has a license to install iOS the way they did for DOS/Windows.
Apple's private APIs may or may not be the same issue as demonstrated by Microsoft, but you can't tell either way from the kind of description that would fit in a comment field.
Apple's private APIs may or may not be the same issue as demonstrated by Microsoft, but you can't tell either way from the kind of description that would fit in a comment field.
Sure the licensing part is very different but the software issue is identical.
Browsers are using public APIs which do not support some of the features Safari does. You can't build something as seamless as iCloud because of the private APIs being used there. You can't build an exact copy of the Airpods because the public APIs aren't as good as what they gave to themselves. Watches aren't treated the same if it's an Apple one or one from another vendor. I could continue this list for a long time.
The same logic extends to everything in iOS, their software is fundamentally treated differently than the software coming from other vendors and has extra private capabilities.
Browsers are using public APIs which do not support some of the features Safari does. You can't build something as seamless as iCloud because of the private APIs being used there. You can't build an exact copy of the Airpods because the public APIs aren't as good as what they gave to themselves. Watches aren't treated the same if it's an Apple one or one from another vendor. I could continue this list for a long time.
The same logic extends to everything in iOS, their software is fundamentally treated differently than the software coming from other vendors and has extra private capabilities.
Is this suggesting that when I open a link, google maps could open it, but doesn’t due to developers being unaware of a documented API?
> Apple also plans to introduce a new default control for users in Settings for navigation apps. Apple aims to make this solution available by March 2025.
> Apple will also add the ability to delete Safari from the iPhone in an update to iOS before the end of the year.
Man, sincerely wish Apple would make these changes available elsewhere. My whole family complains about how they cannot make Google Maps the default on iOS.
> Apple will also add the ability to delete Safari from the iPhone in an update to iOS before the end of the year.
Man, sincerely wish Apple would make these changes available elsewhere. My whole family complains about how they cannot make Google Maps the default on iOS.
What I don't get is why they don't just roll it out everywhere? Surely it's more hassle for them to maintain multiple versions of iOS with different features for different markets?
More hassle, but that hassle is covered by extra $$$ from forcing people in their ecosystem.
I think that illustrates how important they think being default is and how much they have to lose.
So they can whine about how regulation interferes with their ability to innovate
Probably more about Safari than Maps
If they limit the market they disincentivize google and mozilla from investing in native iOS versions of their browsers
If they limit the market they disincentivize google and mozilla from investing in native iOS versions of their browsers
If you care about choice, iOS isn't the OS for you.
Wishing for Apple to do something is misplaced. Wish for and vote for a government where you live that's as concerned with your software choices as the EU and EC and European courts are for their citizens.
Why not skip this case-by-case approach and just introduce something similar to Android's intent system? As in, any app could say it can handle "geo:" URIs, and the user would get to choose which app opens them. Same for all other URI schemes and common actions. It has somehow worked on Android for 15 years and hell didn't break loose.
I think the issue is less a technical one and more that Apple doesn't want to cede control. I'm guessing the fact they're saying this will take a year to launch is more about how little they want to do it than the actual amount of effort.
> Apple doesn't want to cede control
But they will have to, sooner or later. It's not like the EU is going to give up with its initiatives that aim precisely to reduce this kind of post-device-sale control by device manufacturers. Why not just bite the bullet? This kind of arrogant behavior can't be good for Apple's own reputation either. You want people to use your services? Provide better services than your competition then!
But they will have to, sooner or later. It's not like the EU is going to give up with its initiatives that aim precisely to reduce this kind of post-device-sale control by device manufacturers. Why not just bite the bullet? This kind of arrogant behavior can't be good for Apple's own reputation either. You want people to use your services? Provide better services than your competition then!
Because then you couldn't funnel every basic functionality of a modern smartphone into your own apps by force, making it so annoying to actually use alternatives that in most scenarios, you won't bother to.
Remember when "Apple Maps Bad" was catastrophic? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVq1wgIN62E
Then Uber happened, in particular greyballing.
Then FTX happened.
Then ...
It's not just about pressing a bad product on people, it's about the greed leading the campaign in the first place.
Then Uber happened, in particular greyballing.
Then FTX happened.
Then ...
It's not just about pressing a bad product on people, it's about the greed leading the campaign in the first place.
Off topic, recently on holiday I needed to lookup an address. Google Maps and Apple Maps had very different results. One had the location about half a mile away across the city and the other was right where I was standing.
Apple Maps was the correct one.
This is not an experience I’d have expected in 2024 for a large city in a Western country. With Googles apparent embrace of enshitification as a goal instead of a warning, perhaps I shouldn’t be surprised anymore.
Apple Maps was the correct one.
This is not an experience I’d have expected in 2024 for a large city in a Western country. With Googles apparent embrace of enshitification as a goal instead of a warning, perhaps I shouldn’t be surprised anymore.
Apple Maps would be my preference too. UI is much better, map design much better, turn by turn is better etc. The only area it stumbles is business listings. For Google I can see lots of reviews, opening hours that are accurate even on holidays, how busy the location is, photos etc. Apple Maps doesn't even come close in this regard and sadly it's the main reason I use a mapping app. Apple should have started building this out from the start - integrating with Yelp which was a mistake (it was DOA even back then for countries outside the US).
That's one of the main values of Google Maps: it's not just a navigation app, it's a business directory. I don't need to know how to get to a set of GPS coordinates; I need to find an Italian restaurant, or a veterinarian, or whatever. Only then do I care about how I go there.
Google Maps has been weird lately.
Not too long ago, I was looking for a shop which, it turned out, was at the next junction of a very short street. Like, I could've seen it but for a signpost and restaurant outdoor furniture blocking my view.
Google Maps recommended I walked to that junction, turned left, walked halfway to the next junction, got on the underground, took the underground to the next stop, got off the underground, and then walked back.
Not too long ago, I was looking for a shop which, it turned out, was at the next junction of a very short street. Like, I could've seen it but for a signpost and restaurant outdoor furniture blocking my view.
Google Maps recommended I walked to that junction, turned left, walked halfway to the next junction, got on the underground, took the underground to the next stop, got off the underground, and then walked back.
Well, not long ago I was searching for National Car Rental / Enterprise near the London Heathrow airport. As I was in a hurry, I chose the first one that looks right and start driving. And somehow I arrived in one of the terminal drop off/pick up zone and hence I need to pay £5 for that mistake. And then when I eventually got the right one, that’s another 15 min drive…
If you look up “paper cities” google also has “paper public transportation” and it will give me a route from my house starting at a bus stop that doesn’t exist on a bus that doesn’t exist. It’s super annoying when inviting people over because I have to explain that they shouldn’t use Google maps because it will give impossible directions.
It depends on where you are; Google Maps is indispensable in some cities, and apparently somewhat useless in other locales. Here in Tokyo, it's a must-have app, and basically everyone uses it because it's so useful. Good luck trying to navigate the public transit system with some other navigation app, or find some very particular restaurant you want to eat at. Of course, one of Google's big locations for Maps development is here in Tokyo, so that might have something to do with why it works so well.
I'll give you another example: if you drive to the Dallas Fort Worth DFW airport with toll off, Google maps won't tell you there is no way to get to a terminal to pick up passengers without paying the toll.
Apple maps still doesn't have biking directions in the Netherlands, where most of the country gets around by bike. I find that one particularly funny.
Yeah, from what I read in posts like these, it seems like Apple Maps is probably fine if you live in the USA and drive everywhere, but if you live in another country and don't typically use a car for transportation it's probably useless. Here in Tokyo, I've never even heard of anyone using Apple Maps. Everyone I've ever met either uses Google Maps or a local app like JapanTransitPlanner.
My wife actually uses Google Maps a lot for restaurants and places to go when we are traveling outside our country, but not for navigation. I find that funny, since this is a Maps app after all.
As for navigations it's either Apple Maps or Waze, depending on the country.
As for navigations it's either Apple Maps or Waze, depending on the country.
In a lot of cities (think Asia, Europe) GMaps is still significantly better.
Especially for walking and in less common places.
In Ghent, Belgium, Apple Maps wanted to let me walk a ~20min detour and follow car streets whereas GMaps correctly allowed me to walk on pedestrian-only roads.
Especially for walking and in less common places.
In Ghent, Belgium, Apple Maps wanted to let me walk a ~20min detour and follow car streets whereas GMaps correctly allowed me to walk on pedestrian-only roads.
GMaps is usually better for the social aspect: reviews at restaurants, places, etc.
But for walking outside cities, both are really terrible. Mapy.cz (previously maps.me) is an order of magnitude better
And for driving, Waze is usually the best. Police controls will be shown, and in some countries, especially outside EU + US, Waze is better at finding a car road, while GMaps may sugges a shortcut through a river.
But for walking outside cities, both are really terrible. Mapy.cz (previously maps.me) is an order of magnitude better
And for driving, Waze is usually the best. Police controls will be shown, and in some countries, especially outside EU + US, Waze is better at finding a car road, while GMaps may sugges a shortcut through a river.
It bugs me Apple still hasn't got cycling directions in the Netherlands.
I found the opposite to be true in many European cities including Brussels, London, Cologne, and especially Antwerp where the metro tram network was fatally error-laden on Google Maps.
Not usually a supporter of Google, but personally I'd cut them some slack for this. I do hold them responsible for not being able to go a few clicks without some google tech shoving a shitty ad in my face.
Wish they would also allow 3rd party phone apps. Recording a call isn’t possible on an iPhone unless your willing to use paid, very hacky solutions.
I have no idea how this is somehow different from the Microsoft IE antitrust case of the 90’s, but I truly hate decisions made by apple (and Microsoft, for that matter) in the name of ‘doing business’.