Would-be Tesla buyers snub company as Musk's reputation dips(reuters.com)
reuters.com
Would-be Tesla buyers snub company as Musk's reputation dips
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/would-be-tesla-buyers-snub-company-musks-reputation-dips-2024-04-01/
45 comments
The other aspect that I find disturbing is that in all cases where a Tesla fails, Tesla stans will blame the driver/owner. It's a toxic community where Musk does no wrong and nothing is his or Tesla's fault.
I am also still wondering why they can continue to sell FSD and not be charged with fraud.
I am also still wondering why they can continue to sell FSD and not be charged with fraud.
It's really very extreme. Even with Apple, which is traditionally viewed as one of the more cult-adjacent tech companies, the user community was generally, say, pretty derisive of "you're holding it wrong". I can't think of another example of a company which has such an extreme assumption of infallibility by its fans; it's usually more something you see from actual bona fide cults.
That's because in many of those cases, the fault _does_ lie with the driver.
Take it from the airline industry: assigning blame is not a good way to improve safety. It's always a confluence of factors that leads to an accident. Change any single factor and the accident probably wouldn't occur. Moreover, humans have been proven time and again to be easily distracted, lazy, tired or simply not following the rules. The first step in achieving the goal of improved safety needs to accept that humans are flawed, yet strive to improve safety in spite of that.
Pretty sure labelling entire community is against HN guidelines
I for one believe that the stunning and brave Tesla community will pull through this disgusting case of discrimination. I’ll also be sure to write to my local representative, imploring them to consider special-purpose legislation to protect them against further attacks.
Drove for 3 hours yesterday with minimal effort and far more attention on what traffic is doing. There’s no going back from Autopilot. Depending where you live Tesla has best value for money by about 20-40%. You either avoiding brand or looking for something luxurious if choosing something else. In NZ vote of protest seems to be Polestar - nice looking, but inferior at every spec while 1.5x more expensive!
Hyundai/Kia Highway Driving Assist (HDA2) is really good. They're price competitive. Their charging speed can exceed Tesla's, and you get physical buttons, 360 camera, and a HUD that you can't get in a Tesla.
In NZ, people are no longer buying EVs anyway, once government subsides stopped:
https://evdb.nz/ev-stats
https://evdb.nz/ev-stats
Also AFAIK first country in the world to tax EVs for road use, effectively 2x more over hybrids or same as 3.5 ton diesel truck.
Comes from a party that Musk himself congratulated for winning.
Comes from a party that Musk himself congratulated for winning.
A little more than two years ago I enthusiastically bought a used model 3. There weren't any other cars that I was remotely interested in. This year, we're looking to sell it and replace it with an Ioniq 6 and (forthcoming) Charger Daytona. Tesla isn't even in the running: our runner up choices are Mach-e, Lucid, and Rivian.
Make sure you drive those vehicles before you commit. I've driven the IONIQ6 and the Mach-E and would consider them inferior to the Model 3 in many ways, but you might not. (I'm looking to give Rivian a try at some point to see what all the hype's about; looks like a great vehicle.)
I definitely won't commit before trying them out!
Lucid starts at twice the price of a Model 3
If I was interested in a Tesla, I would be in the market for a Model S, not another Model 3. The Charger Daytona that I'm looking at is also multiples of what I'd paid for my Model 3.
And?
Isn't the whole premise people are voting with their wallets?
Isn't the whole premise people are voting with their wallets?
I've yet to meet someone that was out looking for an ioniq 6 and if the dealer doesn't have one they drive home the second choice car 2x-3x the price. That sounds like someone just throwing out words. The Mach-e is in the same ballpark though.
We're replacing a single Model 3 shared by myself (works from home) and my partner (commutes). I make due now by taking my motorcycles, but that has some significant inconveniences. My partner wants a mostly-boring, sensible car for commuting (the Ioniq) and I want something spicy (the Charger). The two cars have two very different purposes and intended price points. So to your point, you're making bad assumptions about intentions.
I have a cybertruck reservation that I think I'm going to pass on. I like Tesla the brand and the cars, but I have two now with batteries that only went ~70k miles before CAC imbalance is serious enough to risk getting stranded at a supercharger. Maybe if the $14-16k remanufactured battery they want to sell you (including core for your old battery) actually had any new cells in it I wouldn't be so salty, but as it is, I don't think I want another iPhone with wheels.
There’s some irony with long-range batteries. It’s chemistry degrade quicker and they fail earlier. Haven’t seen an LFP battery fail yet.
Apparently unlike everyone else on HN or reddit, I've been pretty happy with my Model 3 & Y and plan to get a Cybertruck because I think it looks awesome and early reviews seem to be very positive. If they would fix the obnoxious autopilot nagging and (lack of) rain sensors in future cars, I'll probably continue buying Teslas. If not, Rivians are pretty nice and I'm sure there will be other good options in the near future.
"Whether you hate me, like me or are indifferent, do you want the best car, or do you not want the best car?"
Good point. That's why my heart is still set on a Prius.
Good point. That's why my heart is still set on a Prius.
I did cancel a Model 3 order and go with another car, but if it would have been a slam dunk decision I would have still gotten the Tesla.
I've been intrigued by the Model 3 refresh, and began considering it for my next car. However after watching many reviews (usually done by Tesla fans) and seeing the nightmare that is the UI/UX changes, I'd be more likely to buy a used Model 3 now (which I'm not; I'm actually happy about what's coming in the Ioniq 5 refresh)
I've been intrigued by the Model 3 refresh, and began considering it for my next car. However after watching many reviews (usually done by Tesla fans) and seeing the nightmare that is the UI/UX changes, I'd be more likely to buy a used Model 3 now (which I'm not; I'm actually happy about what's coming in the Ioniq 5 refresh)
Nothing new. In 2022, I canceled a Model 3 order and went with a Kia EV6 instead.
I don't care about Musk's reputation. The problem is they make shit cars.
I had a model s and the next car I got was the Porsche Taycan. The Taycan is built to such a high standard that the Tesla Model X (which I was planning to get) felt like a toy in comparison.
I think that's the case for a lot of people. Competition has increased and Tesla makes shit dumpster fire like the truck whose trunk will chop your finger if you keep it near the door by mistake.
I had a model s and the next car I got was the Porsche Taycan. The Taycan is built to such a high standard that the Tesla Model X (which I was planning to get) felt like a toy in comparison.
I think that's the case for a lot of people. Competition has increased and Tesla makes shit dumpster fire like the truck whose trunk will chop your finger if you keep it near the door by mistake.
What never ceases to amaze me is that people expect a company that has no experience building cars to know how to build cars..
It cuts both ways — there are companies that know how to build a car well, but have no clue how to manage batteries, use electric motors efficiently, and are institutionally incapable of writing even half-decent software.
So far it seems that tech and battery companies (Tesla, BYD) may catch up on the car things quicker than Toyota or Stellantis learn how to make an EV drivetrain that doesn't suck.
So far it seems that tech and battery companies (Tesla, BYD) may catch up on the car things quicker than Toyota or Stellantis learn how to make an EV drivetrain that doesn't suck.
You are comparing apples to oranges tho.
The best part of this article are the graphs and data shown. No comments otherwise
There's also a rapidly increasing amount of social disapproval of people who drive Teslas, which I suspect will increasingly limit Tesla purchases to that subset who doesn't care what people think.
When did this become normal? Just another sign of political polarization? I drive a Tesla and a Beetle. I couldn't care less what cars others drive, Teslas or not. (Apart from the novelty of "hey that's an interesting car, what's it like?" sort of stuff)
I find that kind of thing to say more about the people doing the disapproving than of the ones driving certain cars. Doesn't it sound absurd to "disapprove" of people based on a car they drive (an entirely personal choice of product that doesn't affect anyone/anything).
I find that kind of thing to say more about the people doing the disapproving than of the ones driving certain cars. Doesn't it sound absurd to "disapprove" of people based on a car they drive (an entirely personal choice of product that doesn't affect anyone/anything).
In the US, anyway, there's a strong tendency for people to choose the car they drive as a signifier for what sort of subculture (not always political) they identify with.
I'm not expressing agreement with that sort of thing, just saying what I've been noticing over the past couple of years.
I'm not expressing agreement with that sort of thing, just saying what I've been noticing over the past couple of years.
Yeah, when you see a Honda CR-V or Toyota Camry driving down the road you know exactly why those people bought those cars, they are one of THEM.
Most American vehicle sales are no longer sedans. The most popular choices, trucks, have more cultural affiliation:
https://www.bestbrokers.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Price...
https://images-stag.jazelc.com/uploads/theautopian-m2en/epa-...
https://www.bestbrokers.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Price...
https://images-stag.jazelc.com/uploads/theautopian-m2en/epa-...
“Doesn’t care what people think” is a generous descriptor.
I have never been happier to get rid of a car than my model Y lease. For anyone considering a model y wish I had known:
-the turning radius is terrible, very annoying to drive and maneuver in parking lots
-the visibility without the cameras is poor, esp in the rear
-autopilot is frankly dangerous. I’m confident with it but handing it to my mother/wife is frightening
-the steering is very sensitive, esp at high speed. Even on comfort mode, it’s twitchy
-the ride quality is absolutely garbage. Such a hard ride; and yes, it makes it handle like it’s on rails. But how often do you want that vs potholes to not feel like your back is on the road?
-availability of chargers. The charging time is bad enough, but then you have to wait to even get on a charger more than you’d like. Not practical at all.
-if you have a partner of the impatient variety, they are not going to be happy when road trips take an extra hour or 2 for no reason.
-customer service is bad, the app is bad and the entire ownership experience is terrible if you’re used to dealing with any other manufacturer.
-no physical controls is super annoying
-phone key is buggy
-lots of software bugs and build quality issues.
-the turning radius is terrible, very annoying to drive and maneuver in parking lots
-the visibility without the cameras is poor, esp in the rear
-autopilot is frankly dangerous. I’m confident with it but handing it to my mother/wife is frightening
-the steering is very sensitive, esp at high speed. Even on comfort mode, it’s twitchy
-the ride quality is absolutely garbage. Such a hard ride; and yes, it makes it handle like it’s on rails. But how often do you want that vs potholes to not feel like your back is on the road?
-availability of chargers. The charging time is bad enough, but then you have to wait to even get on a charger more than you’d like. Not practical at all.
-if you have a partner of the impatient variety, they are not going to be happy when road trips take an extra hour or 2 for no reason.
-customer service is bad, the app is bad and the entire ownership experience is terrible if you’re used to dealing with any other manufacturer.
-no physical controls is super annoying
-phone key is buggy
-lots of software bugs and build quality issues.
Snub is not the right word.
Never understood why people would spend their hard earned money on a garbage car marketed by a garbage man.
Only a couple of years ago, Tesla was at the top of my list for switching to an EV. It seemed an innovative company with an apparently intelligent leader (I even defended him here several times).
Since then, it's become evident that the quality issues are not fleeting but systemic and endemic. A neighbor has two Teslas and complained they are always in the shop.
And the leader? Once he started openly arguing software, which I know a little bit about, it became obvious that he is clueless amd a bullying, blustering, fraud. Confirmed when I read that SpaceX has a team dedicated to managing Elon, like an internal immune system.
There's now no way I'd consider any of his products.
Since then, it's become evident that the quality issues are not fleeting but systemic and endemic. A neighbor has two Teslas and complained they are always in the shop.
And the leader? Once he started openly arguing software, which I know a little bit about, it became obvious that he is clueless amd a bullying, blustering, fraud. Confirmed when I read that SpaceX has a team dedicated to managing Elon, like an internal immune system.
There's now no way I'd consider any of his products.
Enjoy your space trips on Starliner
Because:
- Tesla's not a garbage car; in fact, I prefer it over every other EV I've driven so far, and I've driven several. Our Model 3s are super fun to drive.
- The Supercharger network truly makes charging an afterthought. This is not the case at all with non-Tesla EVs, unfortunately. Of course, this is irrelevant if you mostly charge at home and don't road trip your car very often.
- There is no-one or nothing close to Tesla's in-car experience. The app is incredible, the UX on Tesla's system is second-to-none (systems on every other EV that haven't yet just given up and went to Google Automotive is kludgey as hell)
- FSD is not fully self-driving but it is, by far, the best autonomous driving experience possible, especially with its most current iteration (FSD 12). I hardly drive when I use it, which is all of the time.
- Tesla's not a garbage car; in fact, I prefer it over every other EV I've driven so far, and I've driven several. Our Model 3s are super fun to drive.
- The Supercharger network truly makes charging an afterthought. This is not the case at all with non-Tesla EVs, unfortunately. Of course, this is irrelevant if you mostly charge at home and don't road trip your car very often.
- There is no-one or nothing close to Tesla's in-car experience. The app is incredible, the UX on Tesla's system is second-to-none (systems on every other EV that haven't yet just given up and went to Google Automotive is kludgey as hell)
- FSD is not fully self-driving but it is, by far, the best autonomous driving experience possible, especially with its most current iteration (FSD 12). I hardly drive when I use it, which is all of the time.
No doubt Musk feels "persecuted". He selectively forgets that "money is speech".
Source: The U.S. Supreme Court
Source: The U.S. Supreme Court
Valid argument. I didn't plan on getting FSD anyway, but it shows they're willing to put the lives of their customers at risk.