Show HN: We relaunched the Official MTA App for NYC public transit(apps.apple.com)
apps.apple.com
Show HN: We relaunched the Official MTA App for NYC public transit
https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/the-official-mta-app/id1297605670
76 comments
Nice to see there are humans here!
- Going from the beta to the prod app erases all of my favorites
- many stations (like Atlantic Ave-Barclays) have to be added two or three times under favorites
- under nearby, each bus location is listed twice (one per direction, cluttering up the list)
- would love to see a view that showed me all trains from the nearest N (three? let me pick) stations, so I could decide which one to walk to — currently have to swipe/tap back and forth between multiple screens (which typically lose state/position)
- in settings, two menu items refer to AAR. I am sure 90% of the users don't know that's "Access-a-Ride"; there's also no way to turn that off for the people who don't use it
- contact us isn't integrated into SalesForce, so you have to re-enter your contact info each time, and there's no way to follow up on tickets from the app
- would be nice to have live chat to customer service (like you can via WhatsApp)
- if you enter text into the search field, then shrink the window height by dragging it to the bottom, you lose your search field contents
Product-wise, you are still structuring this around the physical infrastructure (what's at station XYZ) vs the user need (how do I get to place ABC).
Hopefully you'll bundle TrainTime in soon, as well as add OMNY card management.
It is amazing (but not surprising) that MyMTA (which is ≈6 years old) was "unmaintainble" and had to be thrown out. Can't decide if it was because the city only paid $40K/year and couldn't hire anyone good or because they paid some consultant who is friends with DOITT staff $5MM/year.
- Going from the beta to the prod app erases all of my favorites
- many stations (like Atlantic Ave-Barclays) have to be added two or three times under favorites
- under nearby, each bus location is listed twice (one per direction, cluttering up the list)
- would love to see a view that showed me all trains from the nearest N (three? let me pick) stations, so I could decide which one to walk to — currently have to swipe/tap back and forth between multiple screens (which typically lose state/position)
- in settings, two menu items refer to AAR. I am sure 90% of the users don't know that's "Access-a-Ride"; there's also no way to turn that off for the people who don't use it
- contact us isn't integrated into SalesForce, so you have to re-enter your contact info each time, and there's no way to follow up on tickets from the app
- would be nice to have live chat to customer service (like you can via WhatsApp)
- if you enter text into the search field, then shrink the window height by dragging it to the bottom, you lose your search field contents
Product-wise, you are still structuring this around the physical infrastructure (what's at station XYZ) vs the user need (how do I get to place ABC).
Hopefully you'll bundle TrainTime in soon, as well as add OMNY card management.
It is amazing (but not surprising) that MyMTA (which is ≈6 years old) was "unmaintainble" and had to be thrown out. Can't decide if it was because the city only paid $40K/year and couldn't hire anyone good or because they paid some consultant who is friends with DOITT staff $5MM/year.
Shameless plug, but I just recently built my own little simple MTA app because I wanted to play around with Live Activities in Swift [0] to be able to display the next upcoming train on the lock screen of my phone: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/mta-tracker/id6477849271?platf...
(There are some annoying technical kinks with this that I'm still trying to iron out, but maybe someone will find it useful in the meantime!)
[0] https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guideline...
(There are some annoying technical kinks with this that I'm still trying to iron out, but maybe someone will find it useful in the meantime!)
[0] https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guideline...
This is great! Suggestion: it shows 10 trains per station, which means fewer stations per screen. Perhaps show the first 3 and show the rest under a disclosure? Or add a settings for this?
Check out the “Data Linked to You”. Why does a subway app need my health and fitness data or any of my data at all?
The full privacy policy is here.
https://new.mta.info/privacy-policy
As a transit provider, they seem to be offering the option to report detailed location data for a “smart alerts” feature provided by subcontract to a third party. My walking speed is relevant to predictive alerting for transit, given the non-uniform distribution of US transit, so it makes sense that personalized fitness data is a thing. (I don’t approve of doing so server-side — that particular function should be device-local.) I also assume, unverified as I’m not in their city, that their transit improvement option may also use it. (See below.)
They explicitly do not use your data for marketing. It’s a clearly written policy with full declarations in most respects. However —
App authors, please update your privacy policy to explicitly describe how and which fitness data is collected and used? I’m having to make inferences and that’s understandable but will need to be corrected.
https://new.mta.info/privacy-policy
As a transit provider, they seem to be offering the option to report detailed location data for a “smart alerts” feature provided by subcontract to a third party. My walking speed is relevant to predictive alerting for transit, given the non-uniform distribution of US transit, so it makes sense that personalized fitness data is a thing. (I don’t approve of doing so server-side — that particular function should be device-local.) I also assume, unverified as I’m not in their city, that their transit improvement option may also use it. (See below.)
They explicitly do not use your data for marketing. It’s a clearly written policy with full declarations in most respects. However —
App authors, please update your privacy policy to explicitly describe how and which fitness data is collected and used? I’m having to make inferences and that’s understandable but will need to be corrected.
How can you improve software, without tracking the ever-living s*** out of your users? (How did programmers do it for the first 30-ish years? As we all know, it's impossible ...)
> How can you improve software, without tracking the ever-living s** out of your users
And selling it to the highest, second highest, third highest and lowest bidders, only then can you truly devlop a great user experience.
And selling it to the highest, second highest, third highest and lowest bidders, only then can you truly devlop a great user experience.
They need to know if you had a medical condition while on the train that it was a preexisting condition to avoid any liability.
What absolute bs.
I'm sure it wasn't the intent, but when someone sues for $10 million over a death on the train, you can bet that data's coming out in court.
sorry you didn't read the implied /s that I felt was absolutely unnecessary to actually type out giving readers here the benefit of the doubt that it was understood without stating the obvious. but thanks for reminding me that not everyone reads the intent
You fell afoul of Poe's law [1]. People do read intent, but I think you're overestimating how clearly you communicated your intent. You say the /s was implied, but implied by what? It's a crazy statement for sure, but people come make matter of fact crazy statements on here all the time.
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law
I laughed.
Shameless (in-progress) plug: https://yamtam.nyc
I find the NYC public transit system to be one of the most interesting in the world. Beyond the subways and LIRR and Metro North (which are covered by the MTA's app), there are literally dozens of other transit providers: Nassau bus, red bus, Suffolk bus, NJT, PATH, HBLR, Roosevelt Island Tram, and a shocking number of smaller targeted transit providers, as well as specialized transit modes like Citibike. No app, except maybe Citymapper, comes close to representing it all.
But Citymapper was acquired, by Via. A company who makes money when you don't choose public/mass transit. So that doesn't make me feel too good. Also, Citymapper doesn't work well offline.
Another important thing is that accessibility and alerts are regarded as very 2nd rate citizens on other apps, and for various reasons, I think these should be easier to see.
Enter my little tool. It has a long way to go, it doesn't do navigation very well (it's my own implementation of a weak algorithm), and doesn't work across modalities. But it does tell you the upcoming trains at stations (using the real time data), along with all the accessibility info, and alerts for the station and line. And links to complex maps, neighborhood maps, and more. And it can map schedules for the entire network 30 minutes into the future (2 hours for LIRR and Metro North), meaning you can go into airplane mode and it will keep working. Additionally, I have found it updates faster than other apps, as it is continually polling the MTA APIs.
I find the NYC public transit system to be one of the most interesting in the world. Beyond the subways and LIRR and Metro North (which are covered by the MTA's app), there are literally dozens of other transit providers: Nassau bus, red bus, Suffolk bus, NJT, PATH, HBLR, Roosevelt Island Tram, and a shocking number of smaller targeted transit providers, as well as specialized transit modes like Citibike. No app, except maybe Citymapper, comes close to representing it all.
But Citymapper was acquired, by Via. A company who makes money when you don't choose public/mass transit. So that doesn't make me feel too good. Also, Citymapper doesn't work well offline.
Another important thing is that accessibility and alerts are regarded as very 2nd rate citizens on other apps, and for various reasons, I think these should be easier to see.
Enter my little tool. It has a long way to go, it doesn't do navigation very well (it's my own implementation of a weak algorithm), and doesn't work across modalities. But it does tell you the upcoming trains at stations (using the real time data), along with all the accessibility info, and alerts for the station and line. And links to complex maps, neighborhood maps, and more. And it can map schedules for the entire network 30 minutes into the future (2 hours for LIRR and Metro North), meaning you can go into airplane mode and it will keep working. Additionally, I have found it updates faster than other apps, as it is continually polling the MTA APIs.
A map with arrival times is all that is needed, this is great. Routing also doesn't need to be fancy, departures can be locked to actual stations and the transfer station is the only bit of info needed if it's not already a one-train trip. People who use buses generally know their own feeder lines and that's it, and they don't need to see them again.
This is great.
This is great.
What are your thoughts on Transit app? Seems to cover the different systems pretty well IMO.
I feel like Transit does a pretty good job. I don't love the UI, but it's a personal preference. CityMapper was my go-to for years, and still is if I need something specific that I don't yet handle. But one day, I hope mine is sufficient to never require another app.
What's so interesting about it?
The sheer scale combined with the density combined with the mismanagement and history, as a few examples. I imagine if I lived in London or Paris or Tokyo I'd probably feel just as partial to their unique intricacies. I was recently in Milan and found their public transit system similar and equally interesting. The fact that entire lines were created and then summarily removed, only to be rebuilt decades later in some cases, or turned into green space in others, continues to surprise me.
This looks _very_ similar to TFL Go [0], the equivalent app for London. That's probably a good thing, as I really like TFL Go due to its focus on showing transit information as opposed to Google/Apple Maps where that is just a layer on top of shops, restaurants, hotels, etc.
[0] https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/tfl-go-live-tube-bus-rail/id14...
[0] https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/tfl-go-live-tube-bus-rail/id14...
In particular, TfL Go also has a focus on upcoming nearby departures rather than directions which Google Maps and Apple Maps prioritise. For anyone with some public transport familiarity, it’s quite nice being about to see your approximate position on a schematic tube/rail map or easily view nearby bus stops.
However, a friend who was briefly visiting London found this quite confusing as it wasn’t focused on navigation. Separately, I find the UI far too information-sparse for my taste compared to some other official apps (Zurich, Prague, etc.) which makes it somewhat inefficient to use, but perhaps this works for some.
However, a friend who was briefly visiting London found this quite confusing as it wasn’t focused on navigation. Separately, I find the UI far too information-sparse for my taste compared to some other official apps (Zurich, Prague, etc.) which makes it somewhat inefficient to use, but perhaps this works for some.
And even more similar to TfNSW’s Opal Travel [0], the equivalent app for Sydney. Again, not a bad thing, just very striking resemblance.
[0] https://apps.apple.com/au/app/opal-travel/id941006607
[0] https://apps.apple.com/au/app/opal-travel/id941006607
I'm a huge fan of TFL Go, we should probably add a thank you and inspiration page to the More tab
I live and swear by Citymapper[0] for all cities that it supports. No other app I've used has been as good for public transport as Citymapper has been.
I really hope one day one of these city transport organisations either buy it out, push for it, or license their tech.
[0] https://citymapper.com/
I really hope one day one of these city transport organisations either buy it out, push for it, or license their tech.
[0] https://citymapper.com/
For NYC specifically I've been burned many times by Citymapper. It is trying to be clever and parse the messages about service changes, but does it all wrong and in the end gives you wrong directions, leaving you stranded. Sometimes it doesn't show the alerts by MTA at all.
Now that the MTA app is so good and has achieved feature parity with Citymapper, I prefer that for 90% of the time. It doesn't have multi-modal (eg subway + citibike) and doesn't show estimates of uber/lyft prices, but those have not been very useful in my experience.
Citymapper is still ok to quickly check upcoming train or bus departures.
Now that the MTA app is so good and has achieved feature parity with Citymapper, I prefer that for 90% of the time. It doesn't have multi-modal (eg subway + citibike) and doesn't show estimates of uber/lyft prices, but those have not been very useful in my experience.
Citymapper is still ok to quickly check upcoming train or bus departures.
Citymapper was recently acquired by Via
https://citymapper.com/news/2582/citymapper-joins-via
https://citymapper.com/news/2582/citymapper-joins-via
And Via is like if Uber wanted to dismantle public transport.
Knowing how they are using the data from citymapper, I've since uninstalled it.
Knowing how they are using the data from citymapper, I've since uninstalled it.
...no?
Via is primarily SaaS where their customers are cities themselves to help digitize and optimize their public transit networks. You might be thinking of: at one point in time and in some places, Via operated ride shares, but that's not their main business and they discontinued much of that during the pandemic.
The citymapper acquisition notes really fit Via's strategy of being able to help cities unify and optimize transit infrastructure.
Via is primarily SaaS where their customers are cities themselves to help digitize and optimize their public transit networks. You might be thinking of: at one point in time and in some places, Via operated ride shares, but that's not their main business and they discontinued much of that during the pandemic.
The citymapper acquisition notes really fit Via's strategy of being able to help cities unify and optimize transit infrastructure.
Me too - no experience of it in NYC but I swear by it in London and it’s also been fantastic in other European cities. Far more reliable and accurate than Google Maps.
Lacks ferries and availability of e-bikes. Google maps has both.
Doesn’t support my city, sadly.
the ‘search box’ is not good at finding stations so i can check when the next train is coming. i typed in ‘34th st’ and it returned a bunch of addresses, none of which are in manhattan. this is probably because you require me to type ‘34 st’ exactly (no ‘th’) instead. if you can’t fuzzy match this, this search box is just unusable.
i also tried looking at ‘nearby stations’ and while standing on the 34th st A platform it didn’t list the 34th st subway station at all, just a bunch of bus stops.
please let me just look at a station list instead.
i also tried looking at ‘nearby stations’ and while standing on the 34th st A platform it didn’t list the 34th st subway station at all, just a bunch of bus stops.
please let me just look at a station list instead.
Back before there was a mobile app, I just made a tiny web page that polled the API: https://jrock.us/mta.html It served me very well for many years (just added it to my phone's home screen as a bookmark).
It doesn't work anymore (CORS), so I guess I might as well install the app.
It doesn't work anymore (CORS), so I guess I might as well install the app.
I shamelessly leach off https://codetabs.com/cors-proxy/cors-proxy.html to get around CORS. Simply update your URL and it works
You might like Here: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/here-nyc-subway-arrivals/id644...
I use it because it opens instantly and just shows me nearby train arrival times. The other apps have always taken too long to bother checking.
I use it because it opens instantly and just shows me nearby train arrival times. The other apps have always taken too long to bother checking.
I built something similar last year if you're interested! https://www.bktransit.com/
It shows me all the bus stops... but not the subway unless I click on a station? I can't even figure out how to have it show me subway times automatically? I rarely take the bus but I'm on the train every day. Can I just have it show me that?
It shows me 17 bus stops, but not the 3 subway stations/lines I am equidistant from. I already went through and favorited all my stations to make it useful again, but the main screen prioritizing every bus stop over any subway stations is not helpful. It takes several clicks to get to what I need now (times of trains at nearest stations). I used the previous app everyday day.
Just want to send my thanks. I’ve been a regular user since the early testflights and it’s been great seeing the iterations and improvements, particularly for me the scheduled-but-no-show ghost buses.
Congrats to the team!
Congrats to the team!
I've been trying really hard to reserve judgment on this upgrade, but since you're asking here, this is a huge step backwards in usability.
The good: you've added offline maps. Unbelievable oversight from the original app.
The bad: the new app completely fails for essentially all of my practical uses as a local.
My most common use case for the MTA app is to look up the train schedules from whatever station I happen to be near. Most often, this means I am standing in front of a station with lines I don't know well, and I want to know when the next trains will arrive, and where they stop. This redesign makes that 10 times harder than before to find either answer. Specifically:
If I had to build this app, I'd do the following:
The good: you've added offline maps. Unbelievable oversight from the original app.
The bad: the new app completely fails for essentially all of my practical uses as a local.
My most common use case for the MTA app is to look up the train schedules from whatever station I happen to be near. Most often, this means I am standing in front of a station with lines I don't know well, and I want to know when the next trains will arrive, and where they stop. This redesign makes that 10 times harder than before to find either answer. Specifically:
* If I don't have the line I'm using starred, it's almost impossible to bring it up quickly.
* Even if I do happen to have the line starred, getting to the interface I actually care about (the arrival/departure times for whatever station I am near), requires multiple clicks, which I usually screw up.
* Getting to the (ever-present) set of service exceptions is difficult, and even when I know that service is disrupted, it can be nearly impossible to see the relevant alert(s).
* I rarely need trip planning. If I do, I have a maps that will tell me a plausible route, and do a better job of it.
If I had to build this app, I'd do the following:
* Rip out the trip planning.
* Keep the system maps. Make the common one available from a single click. Make it available offline.
* The primary screen should be a list of lines.
* Clicking on a line should take me to the list of stations on that line. Clicking on stations should take me to station pages.
* The line page should have all the alerts in one place.
* Stations on the line page should have iconography to indicate if they are currently being skipped due to closures / maintenance.
* Stations on the line page should show me the list of lines I can transfer to from that station.
* Ideally, you'd show me the projected arrival times for the current line *to each station on the line page*.
* BONUS POINTS: automatically use my location to figure out the set of lines/stations near me, and sort these to the top.
Have you tried Transit App ?
https://transitapp.com/
https://transitapp.com/
I'll never delete the Exit Strategy app, which is no longer in the App Store, for two features: 1. the "neighborhood map" for each station, showing the actual extent of the station underground, and 2. the app's main feature: diagrams showing which car to be in – and which door to use! – to exit right in front of the turnstiles at each station on each line.
If you mean the one linked below, it seems very much on the iOS App Store (US).
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/exit-strategy-nyc-subway-map/i...
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/exit-strategy-nyc-subway-map/i...
Oh! Thanks. It was gone last time I looked...
I recommend it, it's excellent!
I recommend it, it's excellent!
I like the update! I’d opened the app a few weeks ago and noticed a huge change.
I’ve been using it for trip planning and in some ways like it better than Google since it incorporates service alerts. On the flip side, sometimes the routes are a little bit non intuitive (like, you could do x, but I probably wouldn’t make 3 transfers.) I’ll try to see if I can find examples.
I’ve been using it for trip planning and in some ways like it better than Google since it incorporates service alerts. On the flip side, sometimes the routes are a little bit non intuitive (like, you could do x, but I probably wouldn’t make 3 transfers.) I’ll try to see if I can find examples.
A quick check seems to show that it doesn't know about the Roosevelt Island Cable Car.
Apple maps helpfully recommended it to me just recently.
Apple maps helpfully recommended it to me just recently.
Not operated by MTA so maybe out of scope.
Dear MTA,
1) Add to map
2) Add "Not MTA" disclaimer
3) Mission Accomplished!
The built-in offline maps are a great feature, thanks for that!
This looks great! But also, the UI looks a LOT like my favorite Transit app, Transit.
Yeah, it seems like they “borrowed” the UI, especially the first tab, from the best transit app out there, Transit App.
i mean there's nothing new but we were heavily inspired by MYmta, MTA TrainTime, TFL Go, Transit, Citymapper, Google Maps, Apple Maps, and many more
I would say the design process was almost overly user centered because I'm terrified of transit fans sometimes tbh because they are smarter than me :D
I would say the design process was almost overly user centered because I'm terrified of transit fans sometimes tbh because they are smarter than me :D
Good work but I can't stop missing Citymapper, especially how good it was before the pandemic and acquisition.
I love public transit and use MTA every day. A few personal projects mentioned here looks really promising. However, when I look at the fact that Citymapper is acquired for $100M and MTA is paying back $3B debt every year, I just wonder what was broken?
I love public transit and use MTA every day. A few personal projects mentioned here looks really promising. However, when I look at the fact that Citymapper is acquired for $100M and MTA is paying back $3B debt every year, I just wonder what was broken?
Just to note - this already addressed my basic use case that it failed - figure out how to get from Newark Airport to 2 WTC. For whatever reason, I could never get a single system to show me the Airtran (to Penn Station Newark) to Path to Oculus to the building.
Now if I can just get to a single ticket for this trip.
Now if I can just get to a single ticket for this trip.
>Data Linked to You
>The following data may be collected and linked to your identity:
>Health & Fitness Location Contact Info Identifiers Usage Data Diagnostics
Location, linked to my identity? No thanks.
>The following data may be collected and linked to your identity:
>Health & Fitness Location Contact Info Identifiers Usage Data Diagnostics
Location, linked to my identity? No thanks.
[deleted]
It certainly looks and feels much more modern, but I’m most curious what was behind the decision not to emulate the LIRR’s app - that one’s awesome
Assuming you mean TrainTime (which does both LIRR and Metro-North). That app is one of the best transit apps I’ve used (public or private).
TrainTime has different requirements though - it’s focused on schedules and ticket-buying (and does both of those things really well). The relaunched MTA app seems more about way-finding, trip planning, service status. For those functions, I’m not sure it does much of a better job than Transit app or Citymapper app (although certainly an improvement over Apple or Google Maps).
TrainTime has different requirements though - it’s focused on schedules and ticket-buying (and does both of those things really well). The relaunched MTA app seems more about way-finding, trip planning, service status. For those functions, I’m not sure it does much of a better job than Transit app or Citymapper app (although certainly an improvement over Apple or Google Maps).
Hmm, I've been using Google Maps for this purpose for years, just helping me decide how to get to a particular spot in NYC, walking, subway, bus, citibike, or uber if its worth it.
It also takes into account the official schedules, so I generally trust its routing.
What am I missing out on that the MTA app does better with?
It also takes into account the official schedules, so I generally trust its routing.
What am I missing out on that the MTA app does better with?
[deleted]
Great! I have been using KickMap because the MTA app used to suck. I will give this a try.
The worst thing in mapping software is Google Maps public transport.
Ten minute walk to the subway/tube then a fourteen minute ride?
Every other app, like citymapper or apple maps, tell you this takes 24 minutes.
Google Maps simply omits the walk time and incorrectly tells you the journey takes 14 minutes - making you late.
Ten minute walk to the subway/tube then a fourteen minute ride?
Every other app, like citymapper or apple maps, tell you this takes 24 minutes.
Google Maps simply omits the walk time and incorrectly tells you the journey takes 14 minutes - making you late.
> Google Maps simply omits the walk time and incorrectly tells you the journey takes 14 minutes - making you late.
No it doesn't, it calculates the walk time. How about we take 10 seconds to Google this?
https://maps.app.goo.gl/1JcSMN3qrNuFpNSL8
Has walking times
No it doesn't, it calculates the walk time. How about we take 10 seconds to Google this?
https://maps.app.goo.gl/1JcSMN3qrNuFpNSL8
Has walking times
OK they’ve fixed this. They hadn’t about a year ago and a decade before that.
> How about we take 10 seconds to Google this?
How about you learn the HN guidelines?
> How about we take 10 seconds to Google this?
How about you learn the HN guidelines?
Apple Maps does this with some of the larger subway stations in NYC. Get off the bus at Port Authority and get on the 1 train for example. The “entrance” is at the Port Authority bus terminal but it’s a long underground tunnel to walk to get to the 1 train and it doesn’t seem to account for that walking underground since your already in the “station”.
This isn’t true. I just looked for directions to somewhere in my city that involves an estimated 3 minute walk to the tram stop and a 34 minute ride and it correctly reported 37 minute journey. I already knew this though because it’s walking speed estimates are a little slow for me, so I often arrive earlier than I need to.
Is there also web app?
[deleted]
Let us know what you think!