Apple and OpenAI have signed a deal to partner on AI(arstechnica.com)
arstechnica.com
Apple and OpenAI have signed a deal to partner on AI
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/05/report-apple-and-openai-have-signed-a-deal-to-partner-on-ai/
52 comments
You have to wonder if Giannandrea is what's been holding Siri back all these years. What can you point to that he's significantly improved at Apple since coming from Google in 2018? And now he's luke-warm on LLMs? Seems like someone we should be seeing present Apple's AI strategy at this year's WWDC keynote, no?
> You have to wonder if Giannandrea is what's been holding Siri back all these years.
I think it's more that Siri wasn't central to Apple (though consider homepod and watch, both of which pretty much need to be talked to).
But he's the reason Google had a corporate push on AI at all; he bought Deep Mind etc. I really don't think he's been sitting on his hands.
I think it's more that Siri wasn't central to Apple (though consider homepod and watch, both of which pretty much need to be talked to).
But he's the reason Google had a corporate push on AI at all; he bought Deep Mind etc. I really don't think he's been sitting on his hands.
True. Seems like now would be his moment to take center stage (literally at WWDC in about a week). His title is "Senior Vice President Machine Learning and AI Strategy". We've seen Ternus present. Srouji too. Sure would instill some confidence to hear directly from the AI Strategy SVP on what they've been working on and what they have planned. Turning Siri over to OpenAI sounds like a defeat for him.
He’s lukewarm on chatbots, not necessarily on LLMs.
Apple, in 2024, is still unable to implement a functioning autocorrect, which is a primitive version of LLM's, in the iOS keyboard. Why anyone has any faith in Apple in the new age of LLM's is beyond me.
Ben Thompson of Stratechery raised a good question - why isn't Apple partnering with Microsoft instead of OpenAI? Microsoft has the weights, can provide the requisite infra, is in the process of derisking the OpenAI collaboration via defacto aquihires...
OpenAI is losing people, has a CEO with a mixed reputation, irritates a famous actress who beat Disney in court...
OpenAI is losing people, has a CEO with a mixed reputation, irritates a famous actress who beat Disney in court...
You're looking at it the wrong way: Altman really wants this deal. For a long time, accelerated by the OA coup, he has been searching for ways out of the MS trap, where OA becomes an appendix to MS, dependent on MS infrastructure completely. ('Above you, below you, around you...') Apple is one of the few viable alternatives to play off against MS. (This is the same as why Anthropic gets investment from Google & Amazon, as their anti-OA.) The mere fact of any Apple deal at all is a lot of leverage against Nadella. Think of it as like North Korea playing off China and Russia against each other; it is bad to have only 1 patron, but it is good to have 2.
EDIT: ah, there we go: https://www.businessinsider.com/satya-nadella-sam-altman-ope... Mission. Accomplished.
EDIT: ah, there we go: https://www.businessinsider.com/satya-nadella-sam-altman-ope... Mission. Accomplished.
I understand the motivation from the OAI side. what does apple gain though?
The purported google deal made a lot more sense to me. OAI is terrified of google, and Apple could mitigate Pixel differentiating against iPhone. Google would get a bunch of training data as well.
The purported google deal made a lot more sense to me. OAI is terrified of google, and Apple could mitigate Pixel differentiating against iPhone. Google would get a bunch of training data as well.
Apple's AI strategy is edge computing, which is very smart given their processor advantage.
But edge LLMs for general purpose aren't there yet and won't be for some time, so a partnership with a leading centralized LLM provider makes a lot of sense.
Do simple low hanging fruit LLM work like actual autocomplete at the edge on the device, and kick more difficult workloads to the AI partnership.
If the tech plateaus your edge computing will eventually catch up and you won't need the partnership but won't have lost market share in the meantime, and if it doesn't you'll continue to split the workloads.
But edge LLMs for general purpose aren't there yet and won't be for some time, so a partnership with a leading centralized LLM provider makes a lot of sense.
Do simple low hanging fruit LLM work like actual autocomplete at the edge on the device, and kick more difficult workloads to the AI partnership.
If the tech plateaus your edge computing will eventually catch up and you won't need the partnership but won't have lost market share in the meantime, and if it doesn't you'll continue to split the workloads.
But this is equally true for partnering with Microsoft or Google. Why go for OAI over the other bigger, actually owning infra players?
One possibility is regulatory oversight.
Apple and Microsoft striking a deal is going to get more attention and review than Apple and a much smaller company in market cap and share.
Apple and Microsoft striking a deal is going to get more attention and review than Apple and a much smaller company in market cap and share.
Apple likely plans to use their own infrastructure [0], and why should they add a major competitor as a middleman?
[0] https://www.reuters.com/technology/apple-power-ai-servers-wi...
[0] https://www.reuters.com/technology/apple-power-ai-servers-wi...
> Apple will deliver some of its upcoming artificial intelligence features this year through data centers powered by its own in-house chips
Emphasis mine. I don't think there's any chance that means ChatGPT will run on Apple Silicon. It seems more likely that they will use it to power their internal CoreML/MLX-based research, anything more would kinda be a waste of money and electricity.
Emphasis mine. I don't think there's any chance that means ChatGPT will run on Apple Silicon. It seems more likely that they will use it to power their internal CoreML/MLX-based research, anything more would kinda be a waste of money and electricity.
I can’t imagine apple has chip production scaled to the point it could support all the inference queries coming from all the iPhones
They don’t need to if they can process a significant chunk of the queries on-device. Llama3-level inference works fine on M2-level chips today and the M4 is already in a mobile device.
Maybe branding/brand recognition? Outside of tech circles, it's likely that very few people know anything bad about Altman, compared to the hundreds of millions who know about "ChatGPT."
The brand recognition is surely flowing from the iPhone to ChatGPT.
They’ll have to rebrand siri though
They’ll have to rebrand siri though
I think this is more strategic than about whether or not apple could make an AI if they wanted to. OpenAI plays MS off Apple, Apple plays Google off OpenAI. Apple probably gets very favorable terms from OpenAI due to the market they're opening up to them.
sorry to interrupt your comment thread, this is completely unrelated. are you the tracerbulletx that used to go by davey on an old forum called ultio? i know it's a long shot. i've been trying to get back in touch with him over the years, but all the forms of the internet that we used to communicate over are now dead. anyway, hope you're having a good day either way. if you're not davey, disregard this. if you are, let your pal cass know you're alive? cheers.
Does this mean Siri will catch up to Google Assistant? Or at least be somewhat useful?
From https://www.macrumors.com/2024/05/30/ai-siri-features-ios-18...:
“Apple has been working on a deal with OpenAI to integrate OpenAI's ChatGPT technology into iOS 18, […] but Siri functionality likely relies on Apple's own LLM work.”
“Apple has been working on a deal with OpenAI to integrate OpenAI's ChatGPT technology into iOS 18, […] but Siri functionality likely relies on Apple's own LLM work.”
Stock didn't really move on this, but IMO this is a bearish signal for Apple--they're sitting on a ton of cash and can't catch up to OpenAI? Not even via acquisition? How far behind are their internal efforts?
To be fair, launching their own ChatGPT wouldn't be that much more interesting than leveraging OpenAI. What would be amazing is if they get a high-quality GPT model running locally on the device and integrate that with their services.
> high-quality GPT model running locally on the device and integrate that with their services.
Unfortunately very few Macs would be able to run anything like that since 8GB is still the base config for consumer models and I wouldn't be too surprised if 80-90% of all Macs sold in the last couple of years only have 16 GB or less.
Unfortunately very few Macs would be able to run anything like that since 8GB is still the base config for consumer models and I wouldn't be too surprised if 80-90% of all Macs sold in the last couple of years only have 16 GB or less.
The good thing is if they choose a model that runs on a 8GB macbook it can run just as well on an iphone
I think the difference between 6GB and 8GB might be more significant than it seems when you subtract the OS and any other apps that are running.
> 8GB is still the base config for consumer models
Now.
Now.
So they are going to rises prices by $200 across the board? Or take a non-insignificant cut to their margins (RAM and storage upgrades are basically free money for them)?
No, they just raise the entry level to 16 gigs (or whatever) and charge the $200 to upgrade it to 32.
As you correctly point out, their margins on RAM are quite high.
As you correctly point out, their margins on RAM are quite high.
Apple has never been about moving fast in response to hype. Think about 3G, VR, foldable screens (apparently coming to iPads in a few years). They do things in their own time and somehow it works.
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They aren't interested in joining the same rat race.
Apple's strategy is edge based AI using their superior proprietary chips, particularly in mobile.
So it makes sense to partner with a centralized provider too.
Apple's strategy is edge based AI using their superior proprietary chips, particularly in mobile.
So it makes sense to partner with a centralized provider too.
But why when you can rent something good enough, and swap it for something in house later when you feel like it.
Look at Apple Maps.
Look at Apple Maps.
Why exactly does Apple need to make their own AI? I would prefer if they focused their efforts on what they're already good at - making hardware and operating systems to run on top of it.
It's priced in.
I agree, but there will be a massive sell-off at WWDC. The announcements are going to be incredibly underwhelming to laypeople and market analysts.
Just wanted to update this to say: I was completely wrong. The announcements were more ambitious than expected, and the stock had a bump!
> but IMO this is a bearish signal for Apple--they're sitting on a ton of cash and can't catch up to OpenAI?
Nobody has caught up to OpenAI, it's absurd to expect Apple to have done it simply because they have the cash.
Nobody has caught up to OpenAI, it's absurd to expect Apple to have done it simply because they have the cash.
Especially when they can’t use that cash to buy Nvidia cards, due to an epic grudge
Google seems caught up, or very close: https://chat.lmsys.org/?leaderboard
Siri was released in 2011. What AI advances have they made since then despite showing early interest and having endless resources? They blew it.
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> Another is a change to OpenAI's structure as a corporation. OpenAI has an unusual structure, with a for-profit corporation beholden to a nonprofit organization. The Information claims that Altman and his allies are seeking to convert it into either a traditional for-profit corporation or a benefit corporation known as a B-Corp. B-Corps allow corporations to have additional goals beyond shareholder interest, protecting them from certain kinds of shareholder lawsuits if they act for reasons beyond profits.
And the penny drops!
And the penny drops!
this... sounds like a good thing?
Obviously, openAI is a cheaper and better option for Apple to use AI in their devices for the time being. Once they have their own AI, or the AI hype subsides, they'll kick openAI.
Bad news for google. Sundar is dying inside
I’ll be looking for Apple’s guarantee that my data never touches an OpenAI server. If not, I won’t touch the new features with a ten-foot pole.