Heartbroken by the Sonos App Disaster and What's Happened to the Company(old.reddit.com)
old.reddit.com
Heartbroken by the Sonos App Disaster and What's Happened to the Company
https://old.reddit.com/r/sonos/comments/1f79vk6/former_sonos_engineer_here_heartbroken_by_the_app/
48 comments
I wrote a home automation script that would use a camera as a motion detector and when we weren’t home would play a text to voice message on every Sonos speaker in the house if someone entered our apartment. Mostly for announced maintenance visits so they know that I know they’re there.
Being able to listen to the show on the tv while in the bathroom or shower is nice. Means we don’t have to pause shows if we don’t want to for breaks.
Having music playing across the whole home during dinner parties is a nice vibe.
A whole house alarm would probably be nice for families on the same schedule.
The concept of Sonos is really nice and it mostly works, but yeah the new app was rough. Not sure if I’ll buy anymore sonos gear. For a long time they were the only ones that had the tech required to stream to multiple devices in sync. I’m not sure what the other options are now
Being able to listen to the show on the tv while in the bathroom or shower is nice. Means we don’t have to pause shows if we don’t want to for breaks.
Having music playing across the whole home during dinner parties is a nice vibe.
A whole house alarm would probably be nice for families on the same schedule.
The concept of Sonos is really nice and it mostly works, but yeah the new app was rough. Not sure if I’ll buy anymore sonos gear. For a long time they were the only ones that had the tech required to stream to multiple devices in sync. I’m not sure what the other options are now
Any form of hacking products to be more useful is a win in my books! I can see the multi room play being a nice thing on the odd occasion. Perhaps if I had kids and had to move around the house a bunch more or maybe if it operated as a home system that could also do those additional things I may have had a more positive experience with it. But I maintain my original point that hardware tethered to some software service is basically a random financial-enshitification-quarter away from being bricked and that’s a shame for otherwise excellent hardware
Imagine living in a big house and having the music follow you from room to room, from one floor to another, playing from high def wireless speakers that you can place anywhere you want. I think that is a pretty neat idea.
I don't have a house or Sonos speakers, but I can see how some people would want that experience.
I don't have a house or Sonos speakers, but I can see how some people would want that experience.
Its called headphones
Also the killer feature is that you don't annoy everyone else in your household
Or neighbourhood. I have neighbours with horror vacui: they just need noise 24x7 and their garden is no exception.
I really do not understand this feature. If I want to listen to music without headphone, I'm going to sit down in front of my stereo where sound is best.
I really do not understand this feature. If I want to listen to music without headphone, I'm going to sit down in front of my stereo where sound is best.
"horror vacui" on wikipedia doesn't really seem to be turning up anything appropriate to explain what you're meaning?
You might know it as "Nature abhors a vacuum". Originally it was a statement of Cartesian physics: the idea was that "action at a distance" was impossible, and since distant objects did clearly interact (through gravity and light), all of space has to be completely filled with particulate matter (assumed to be in vortex motion). From this and "cogito ergo sum" it was possible to build a model of physics which extended to the ethics of how you should treat your dog.
However here it is used as a simple figure of speech rather than literally: the neighbours don't like to lrave anything unfilled with sound.
However here it is used as a simple figure of speech rather than literally: the neighbours don't like to lrave anything unfilled with sound.
“horror vacui” (Latin) - “dread of the void”
I suppose the neighbours are of the sort, like many seemingly, who cannot tolerate silence.
I suppose the neighbours are of the sort, like many seemingly, who cannot tolerate silence.
Also apologies if my response was too blunt...
It could be a cool feature, it is just a lot if work to get setup and it would only work if you are the only one in the house
It could be a cool feature, it is just a lot if work to get setup and it would only work if you are the only one in the house
To be honest, that sounds great in a hotel. But a home, really.
Or, as you said, perhaps I don’t have a big enough house nor do I need to listen to music 24x7 or have it follow me.
Or, as you said, perhaps I don’t have a big enough house nor do I need to listen to music 24x7 or have it follow me.
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Neat, but useless waste.
I have that experience. Like every other experience the novelty wears off and I find myself keeping the vibe to a room because it’s distracting; lizard brain stays connected to music and I forget why I went across the house.
In the end I use it so sparingly (social gatherings) owners of detached homes without shared walls, could save the money and time and just turn up the volume.
That said, as always, YMMV
In the end I use it so sparingly (social gatherings) owners of detached homes without shared walls, could save the money and time and just turn up the volume.
That said, as always, YMMV
When I bought my house 13 years ago I asked the electrician to run speaker cable from the living room into the adjoining kitchen. I wired up two pairs of extremely competent car speakers in series (because 4ohms) in the kitchen ceiling, one over each corner of the dining table. I have two amps in the living room, one is an ancient 5.1ch Yamaha that runs a very decent set of speakers and sub, and a nice little Denon stereo amp that's hooked into the kitchen speakers. A single 7.1ch usb sound card runs both, and that's connected to a MeLe Quieter (tiny little N100 device attached to my TV). The entire setup is dirty cheap and let's me fill the downstairs of my home with glorious music, and it never fails. I can swap out any of the bits easily (in fact I replaced my main floorstanders with a lovely pair of DALI a year ago). I've never wanted to extend that upstairs. In the bedrooms, some really nice Edifier Bluetooth speakers are more than adequate, and in our offices we mainly use headphones (in my case I still use my old wired Senheisser HD700 because they're the most comfortable things ever)
I love my tech stuff, and I've got home assistant doing the lights, but it never once crossed my mind to mess with the sound system, except for occasional hifi upgrades. Eg next up: run a subwoofer cable from the stereo amp to the kitchen, but I'm in no rush.
I love my tech stuff, and I've got home assistant doing the lights, but it never once crossed my mind to mess with the sound system, except for occasional hifi upgrades. Eg next up: run a subwoofer cable from the stereo amp to the kitchen, but I'm in no rush.
This is a great setup. I’m approaching the age where I just want things that work and for no one to move my cheese
100%.
I have the same experience - my home runs seven Logitech (formerly Slim Devices) “squeezebox” players from a home server with a ripped collection and options for Spotify. The networked players either have their own speaker, or are connected to amp/speakers. In practice almost all of our music plays through these devices. It’s great.
The only time we connect multiple players to sync up is at larger parties, like once a year. It’s just one button press to do it, so not using this capability isn’t that it’s too complex, it just turns out not to be that useful to us.
The main use case for multi zone audio is handled by the A/B/A+B speaker setting on one particular amp.
As you say, YMMV.
I have the same experience - my home runs seven Logitech (formerly Slim Devices) “squeezebox” players from a home server with a ripped collection and options for Spotify. The networked players either have their own speaker, or are connected to amp/speakers. In practice almost all of our music plays through these devices. It’s great.
The only time we connect multiple players to sync up is at larger parties, like once a year. It’s just one button press to do it, so not using this capability isn’t that it’s too complex, it just turns out not to be that useful to us.
The main use case for multi zone audio is handled by the A/B/A+B speaker setting on one particular amp.
As you say, YMMV.
Is there a way to set up Sonos so the music follows you from room to room?
I don't mind devices that have "smarts" added (e.g. wireless audio can be convenience even if I have to have a wire for power) but I despise devices which don't check the "dumb" boxes before trying to be "smart". Sonos speakers are like you say, there are even plenty of Sonos models with line in but you still need to set them up in app. Getting smart devices without that kind of functionality is like getting a TV without an HDMI input - even if you don't think you'd need it day 1 you'll likely one day regret it.
I recently set up shairport-sync[0] on a pair of Raspberry Pi's w/ USB DACs and nice speakers to get multi-room audio from Apple music. It's pretty nice!
It definitely was a bit of a process to set up, but well documented and much less painful than what this sounds like.
I also put headless plexamp on one, which lets me play my music from Plex, although I haven't gotten around to putting it on the other one yet for multi-room audio.
[0] : https://github.com/mikebrady/shairport-sync
It definitely was a bit of a process to set up, but well documented and much less painful than what this sounds like.
I also put headless plexamp on one, which lets me play my music from Plex, although I haven't gotten around to putting it on the other one yet for multi-room audio.
[0] : https://github.com/mikebrady/shairport-sync
I tried shairport some time ago, but settled on https://github.com/badaix/snapcast and have a really great and reliable open-source multi-room setup
The debacle caused me to try out all the third party apps and I finally found Clic (iOS only), which is made by an indie developer and implements lots of modern stuff that the official app will probably never get around to (live activities on the Lock Screen, Dynamic Island, an actually decent watch app). It’s such a great experience and I’m enjoying and using my Sonos system more than I have in years now.
This has been a great example of how a company culture can go off the rails, and management can chase dubious ideas that sound good, like cloud mediated controls or a unified react native codebase, while a single dev can make something many times better by working off more pragmatic assumptions.
This has been a great example of how a company culture can go off the rails, and management can chase dubious ideas that sound good, like cloud mediated controls or a unified react native codebase, while a single dev can make something many times better by working off more pragmatic assumptions.
I’m happily still using S1. Given that upper management agrees the new S2 is a company ending level screwup, I wonder why they don’t just publish an S2 classic app, spin up old backends from their disaster recovery / business continuity plan, and move on with things.
I had heard that Sonos claimed updates made to both their servers and customers' hardware following the app update can't reasonably be rolled back and wouldn't work with the previous S2 app. Basically, they dragged their feet denying the new app issues long enough to make rolling back infeasible.
Sonos owner; I strongly dislike it. I disliked it on the old app, too. Will get Apple homepods next.
I haven’t had good experienced getting HomePods to play well from a Mac. They do alright enough from my phone or AppleTV but they’re much less reliable than 3rd party Airplay2 speakers like the Kef LS 50 Wireless II I have upstairs. I swear the next time I get an audio drop or stutter from them or an infinite beach ball trying to press play in Spotify Mac, I’m retiring them to “set timer” only duty and buying something else, maybe the desktop speakers from KEF or whatever looks good on audiosciencereview.com for desk form factor
Airplay2 to my Apple TV and from the TV through to a “dumb” receiver and speakers works great, I would highly suggest that route for your main system. For me it’s the right balance between “just works” convenience and audiophile sound quality.
Airplay2 to my Apple TV and from the TV through to a “dumb” receiver and speakers works great, I would highly suggest that route for your main system. For me it’s the right balance between “just works” convenience and audiophile sound quality.
I was going to do the same thing.
I posted elsewhere on this thread how the third party app Clic for Sonos has saved me. Might be worth a try before you go through the expense of changing over.
I posted elsewhere on this thread how the third party app Clic for Sonos has saved me. Might be worth a try before you go through the expense of changing over.
Apple forces you to use Apple Music though :/
No they don’t. I use Spotify on mine all the time.
The only problem is that you get a non-optimal experience because Daniel Ek has decided "fairness for me, not for thee" and refuses to implement AirPlay 2 support for years now while crying that Apple is so unfair to them.
A million years ago when Sonos and Slimdevices/Logitech Squeezebox were both newish, I was cheap and chose Logitech on price and an open source server. Today we have their devices in 6 rooms, and open source players in 2 more.
Logitech abandoned the ecosystem almost immediately after I started buying into it and I've worried what would happen but the open source community has made these things better than ever. Don't get me wrong, there have been teething issues with Spotify, breakages in service, and any new hardware is all a bit DIY, but I'm glad I chose the open solution.
The community is currently rebranding everything to Lyrion and you can get started without any official hardware. https://lyrion.org/
Logitech abandoned the ecosystem almost immediately after I started buying into it and I've worried what would happen but the open source community has made these things better than ever. Don't get me wrong, there have been teething issues with Spotify, breakages in service, and any new hardware is all a bit DIY, but I'm glad I chose the open solution.
The community is currently rebranding everything to Lyrion and you can get started without any official hardware. https://lyrion.org/
I know this feeling, having seen an universally loved service made by passionate excellent engineers, my people, driven to shit along with the organization. It took a long time to get to grips with it. But then I realized, that the people who did it, made a whole lot of money. I might think it morally wrong, but I also understand I might not be able to resist the temptation to do the same, if someone promised me the same piles of cash. Gotta accept the failures of the man.
What's the current best whole home audio setup that doesn't locks you into a specific brand/product line? Must work on iOS/Android/PC, sorry AirPlay.
I'm okay with smart dongle-y things that don't fit the criteria so long as they could run on a set of passive speakers. Because if they turn to shit I just pitch them.
I'm okay with smart dongle-y things that don't fit the criteria so long as they could run on a set of passive speakers. Because if they turn to shit I just pitch them.
Roon perhaps
Ask yourself if you really need "whole home" audio. Most people assume they do, but then find that they never use that feature in several rooms. If you're likely to play the same music in two adjoining rooms (that's what I do) then regular old hifi with an extra cable run works. You could link the tape/MD record output of an main amp into one of the inputs of a secondary amp so they play the same thing. Then book a dumb-dumb Logitech Bluetooth audio receiver to the main amp. Voila, extremely simple two room audio on a shoestring. The amp for room 2 can switch inputs or be turned off.
I've got several Chromecast products, including Chromecasts in regular and ultra flavors, a Chromecast audio (discontinued), Chromecast mini speakers, and a regular Chromecast that I use with an HDMI audio splitter to hook it up to dumb speakers.
I'm not going to lie, the UX is kinda terrible compared to Sonos, but it means not paying Sonos, and it's functional. Not that Google hasn't done bad things in general, but in this area Sonos is the bad actor, which is why I chose this ecosystem despite the downsides.
I'm not going to lie, the UX is kinda terrible compared to Sonos, but it means not paying Sonos, and it's functional. Not that Google hasn't done bad things in general, but in this area Sonos is the bad actor, which is why I chose this ecosystem despite the downsides.
My Sonos experience has been fine eight years now 10+ devices.
That said I do dislike the new app rollout.
I do feel like there has been 500ms to 2 seconds of added lag in certain actions. I can't quite place what's going on though. Not enough to be a deal breaker yet.
I feel the surround sound experience has been very hit or miss but can't tell if it's Sonos or the media platform I'm watching videos on.
That said I do dislike the new app rollout.
I do feel like there has been 500ms to 2 seconds of added lag in certain actions. I can't quite place what's going on though. Not enough to be a deal breaker yet.
I feel the surround sound experience has been very hit or miss but can't tell if it's Sonos or the media platform I'm watching videos on.
The deal breaker for me has been the loss of certain features. Specifically for me, they removed most of the functionality related to local network music libraries.
Originally they said the feature was totally supported but just didn't make the cut for the initial app release. I've heard that story before, including from my own PMs. Can't say I'm too surprised that the feature still isn't supported and I've yet to see any further mention of adding it back.
Originally they said the feature was totally supported but just didn't make the cut for the initial app release. I've heard that story before, including from my own PMs. Can't say I'm too surprised that the feature still isn't supported and I've yet to see any further mention of adding it back.
Being forced to unplug my speaker to get the music to stop playing was my deal breaker for the new app.
That having been said, I've been a longtime Sonos customer and have loved the experience until this disaster. Unlike other commenters in this thread, my family has loved the ease of use and ability to move music between rooms and add / remove speakers. We also have our record player hooked-up with the Sonos Bridge. I don't want to run a server, and it would be an absolute nightmare to hardwire my house. I hope they get it figured out, I'm not throwing away my speakers but it'll be years before I make a new Sonos purchase (if ever).
That having been said, I've been a longtime Sonos customer and have loved the experience until this disaster. Unlike other commenters in this thread, my family has loved the ease of use and ability to move music between rooms and add / remove speakers. We also have our record player hooked-up with the Sonos Bridge. I don't want to run a server, and it would be an absolute nightmare to hardwire my house. I hope they get it figured out, I'm not throwing away my speakers but it'll be years before I make a new Sonos purchase (if ever).
If I was more invested I'd stick it out as well. I have to expect they'll figure this out, its just a bad look and will take them time to dig out of this mess.
I live in a small place and only have a couple original Sonos 1's. Even then we usually only have one playing. I'm just going to sell both and get a similarly small speaker with an Aux input, it'd be just as convenient for me to plug in a phone and stream music from either Spotify or our home server.
I live in a small place and only have a couple original Sonos 1's. Even then we usually only have one playing. I'm just going to sell both and get a similarly small speaker with an Aux input, it'd be just as convenient for me to plug in a phone and stream music from either Spotify or our home server.
From the reddit post:
> Alarm functionality as a highlight feature wtf, dude I can write bash scripts that handle alarm systems reliably on an IoT network, NO PROBLEM … Queue logic systems are the most basic shit I've ever seen. Are you serious?
I don’t know what to make of this.
While the app may be a disaster claiming alarms are nothing more than a bash script on a distributed IOT system seems odd.
Networked queues with multiple clients is not as simple as the author implies either.
> Alarm functionality as a highlight feature wtf, dude I can write bash scripts that handle alarm systems reliably on an IoT network, NO PROBLEM … Queue logic systems are the most basic shit I've ever seen. Are you serious?
I don’t know what to make of this.
While the app may be a disaster claiming alarms are nothing more than a bash script on a distributed IOT system seems odd.
Networked queues with multiple clients is not as simple as the author implies either.
Not sure what people have in mind with regards to the growth of a company? Get to know more people? Get to know them more closely? Less debt/overhead? More agility? Less stakeholders?
"Just an honest opinion from a huge fan of Sonos speakers."
Ah yes, of course, the most honest opinions come from the hugest of fans. But in all seriousness: I will make fun of every single person who will show this level (or less) of emotional attachment to any tech. It's literally "victim of product and an abusive relationship with company".
Ah yes, of course, the most honest opinions come from the hugest of fans. But in all seriousness: I will make fun of every single person who will show this level (or less) of emotional attachment to any tech. It's literally "victim of product and an abusive relationship with company".
I mean, the guy worked there as a hardware engineer for some years years, it would be a little bit strange if he showed zero emotional attachment to it.
Enshitification will continue until morale improves.
I dont think it was a good product even back when it did 'work'. We received a pair as a house-warming gift and I remember not understanding how or why I should use them. I already had a soundbar that I could stream music to. I now, out of politeness, had to use these new "wireless" speakers that demanded a constant wifi connection but still required their own Very Visible power cables along with its own dedicated app which was nothing but a wrapper for music services that logged me out after every software update. I couldn't even use it as a dumb speaker and operate it as part of my main sound system so now I have a soundbar that is nicely mounted to the wall and additionally these speakers that clutter my living room. Lovely.