Are mutts like me welcome on HN?
37 comments
I'm probably about as "un-HN" as you can get.
I live in a small industrial northern English city, about 10,000 miles from the buzz of Silicon Valley both physically and metaphorically.
I don't know how to code except a bit of really basic stuff, I don't have an education from a top university, I don't own a laptop or an iPhone or even my own home PC.
I don't work at a company that makes mashups out of widgets using the Google and Twitter APIs then turns them into Facebook apps.
But I still work in a startup, even though it's not in the web field. We're a new regional digital radio station on a platform called DAB. I love the startup atmosphere; it's so much more rewarding to come in every day and get stuck into building this thing up. It's not a web app, but it is a blank canvas for ideas and development-- we really want to do things differently to any radio station that's gone before and put to death the adage that "there are no new ideas in radio".
Personally, I take an interest in the way in which radio's using new web technologies like Twitter to have a two-way conversation with listeners and turn them into participants. I'm interested in the social news model and how it could be adapted for our medium. I want to give new life to a medium that's condemned as dying on a regular basis. We're really not "big bad old media", you know.
Some of the technical stuff on here goes way over my head, but the quality of submissions and discourse is far better than other social-news sites I could mention. I'd rather have a site that's a bit above my technical level than one that's full of conjecture about Apple laptops or pictures of cats.
I live in a small industrial northern English city, about 10,000 miles from the buzz of Silicon Valley both physically and metaphorically.
I don't know how to code except a bit of really basic stuff, I don't have an education from a top university, I don't own a laptop or an iPhone or even my own home PC.
I don't work at a company that makes mashups out of widgets using the Google and Twitter APIs then turns them into Facebook apps.
But I still work in a startup, even though it's not in the web field. We're a new regional digital radio station on a platform called DAB. I love the startup atmosphere; it's so much more rewarding to come in every day and get stuck into building this thing up. It's not a web app, but it is a blank canvas for ideas and development-- we really want to do things differently to any radio station that's gone before and put to death the adage that "there are no new ideas in radio".
Personally, I take an interest in the way in which radio's using new web technologies like Twitter to have a two-way conversation with listeners and turn them into participants. I'm interested in the social news model and how it could be adapted for our medium. I want to give new life to a medium that's condemned as dying on a regular basis. We're really not "big bad old media", you know.
Some of the technical stuff on here goes way over my head, but the quality of submissions and discourse is far better than other social-news sites I could mention. I'd rather have a site that's a bit above my technical level than one that's full of conjecture about Apple laptops or pictures of cats.
Welcomeness isn't defined for users so much as behavior. Or to put it another way: you are what you do. Anyone's welcome who has interesting things to say.
Fair point. The more precise question I wanted to ask is what behavior is encouraged/desired on HN? Are there any published norms on, "things to say?" So far as I can tell there are no published howto's, alas the ask.
You're an aerospace engineer with an ivy league business degree who's so concerned about being courteous that you posted this topic. If you're not welcome here, I'm sure as hell not.
Welcome, you seem like a nice guy. Say what you think and I'm sure you'll be fine. The closest thing to guidelines are at: http://ycombinator.com/hackernews.html
To quote PG: "The focus of Hacker News is going to be anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes a lot more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.
It may be easier to say what that doesn't include. It doesn't include most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. It doesn't include videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. Basically, if they'd cover it on TV news, it's off-topic."
Welcome, you seem like a nice guy. Say what you think and I'm sure you'll be fine. The closest thing to guidelines are at: http://ycombinator.com/hackernews.html
To quote PG: "The focus of Hacker News is going to be anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes a lot more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.
It may be easier to say what that doesn't include. It doesn't include most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. It doesn't include videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. Basically, if they'd cover it on TV news, it's off-topic."
I'd say the best way to figure out is to stick around, read the guidelines, and take note of the occasional flame when you get it wrong.
When in hacker news do as hackers do I guess.
"Anyone's welcome who has interesting things to say."
This is why HN is the best news site for tech news anywhere. I'm like Furqan (the author), a bit of a mutt, and have enjoyed reading and participating here.
This is why HN is the best news site for tech news anywhere. I'm like Furqan (the author), a bit of a mutt, and have enjoyed reading and participating here.
Once a community gets large & diverse enough that it starts wondering about its own composition, it enters a phase in which it has to start to examine a lot of unspoken conventions. Since Clay Shirky wrote about this phenomenon so well, I propose we call this stage "Shirky Completeness".
As far as I'm concerned, you've built stuff and want to build more stuff; you're polite and thoughtful. Enough for me. Welcome. :)
As far as I'm concerned, you've built stuff and want to build more stuff; you're polite and thoughtful. Enough for me. Welcome. :)
I'm a tech guy, and I think the site could use more guys like you.
I've been surprised at just how business-saavy the "tech guys" on this site are!
It's probably a side effect of the fact that this was "Startup News" prior to it being "Hacker News".
And a lot of founders/small business owners post here too. Most are technical, but some are non-technical.
Yeah, I think you're right on the money.
Whatever the mixture is, it's a good one. I've always thought YC was impressive for it's ability to have spirited discussion without the constant holy wars that tend to erupt when you get a lot of smart people in a room.
Whatever the mixture is, it's a good one. I've always thought YC was impressive for it's ability to have spirited discussion without the constant holy wars that tend to erupt when you get a lot of smart people in a room.
I always tell people the best part about Hacker News is you can witness people changing their mind within a thread. How many places are like that?
Who said hacking has to be software hacking?
The YC application even explicitly asks for evidence of non-computer hacking abilities.
Your bio, and the fact that you enjoy posting here means that you have the hacker spirit, in all likelihood. You're more than welcome.
The YC application even explicitly asks for evidence of non-computer hacking abilities.
Your bio, and the fact that you enjoy posting here means that you have the hacker spirit, in all likelihood. You're more than welcome.
Your bio seems like a perfect reason to reconsider thinking things like "What does this business guy think he is, some kind of rocket scientist?".
I've been lurking until today. I too am concerned about not upsetting an apple cart. The rules today are pretty much the same as any other social situation.
Netiquette isn't so much different than etiquette. Treat people with respect, which you do. Add something of value, which you do. Listen to and learn from what others provide, which you are doing.
Remember, above all, this is a community (I just created an account today) like all others and I too am wondering what to say and not say.
I think the very fact that you asked the question shows that you are interested in this community remaining strong. That's what any community needs.
Netiquette isn't so much different than etiquette. Treat people with respect, which you do. Add something of value, which you do. Listen to and learn from what others provide, which you are doing.
Remember, above all, this is a community (I just created an account today) like all others and I too am wondering what to say and not say.
I think the very fact that you asked the question shows that you are interested in this community remaining strong. That's what any community needs.
Don't have the patience?! That's the fun part -- slowly working through the problems! Fighting the gods until you are victorious!
You should give it a whirl again, you might be surprised.
You should give it a whirl again, you might be surprised.
Truth be told I miss my battles with the gods. Now I'm stuck fighting mere mortals which is nowhere near the shallange.
How are you a mutt? Think of yourself as multidimensional -- having knowledge of doing more than web app software.
My undergrad is in Electrical Engineering. I designed industrial data monitoring & control equipment for a few years, then started doing embedded software. Got an MS in software engineering. Did more embedded, did some MFC stuff, dabbled in cgi scripts and Zope for a while. Somewhere in there had a small 2-person side business building temperature monitoring equipment for a few years. Now working on movie camera motion control. I'm about as far from Web 2.0 as you're going to get :-)
I like it here and I also hang out on Spolsky's Business of Software forum. In both cases I get more out of the business discussion than the software discussion.
I for one welcome someone with wider scope of experience who can bring something new to the discussions.
My undergrad is in Electrical Engineering. I designed industrial data monitoring & control equipment for a few years, then started doing embedded software. Got an MS in software engineering. Did more embedded, did some MFC stuff, dabbled in cgi scripts and Zope for a while. Somewhere in there had a small 2-person side business building temperature monitoring equipment for a few years. Now working on movie camera motion control. I'm about as far from Web 2.0 as you're going to get :-)
I like it here and I also hang out on Spolsky's Business of Software forum. In both cases I get more out of the business discussion than the software discussion.
I for one welcome someone with wider scope of experience who can bring something new to the discussions.
Being a hacker is more about self-determination than any institutional credentials.
You build stuff, you can code, and you want to talk about tech stuff. I'm not sure there's much else to a hacker's definition than that.
You build stuff, you can code, and you want to talk about tech stuff. I'm not sure there's much else to a hacker's definition than that.
You honorably recognize your talents and achievements. But you still start a topic asking your candidacy?
Then what label can you give me? I'm not an aerospace engineer, I'm not a serial entrepreneur, and I'm sure as hell that I would never build an electronic passenger car.
Everyone is welcome here. We humans are extraordinarily curious beings, curiosity & willingness to explore is the main reason why we kept visiting this site.
Then what label can you give me? I'm not an aerospace engineer, I'm not a serial entrepreneur, and I'm sure as hell that I would never build an electronic passenger car.
Everyone is welcome here. We humans are extraordinarily curious beings, curiosity & willingness to explore is the main reason why we kept visiting this site.
Sure. As long as you submit your version of our traditional song of "I'm a lumberjack" on YouTube, wear the funny hat, and learn Lisp, you're as welcome as anybody else. Oh yes, there's the monthly dues. You can just send them to me and I'll hook you up.
Just kidding. I think the only requirement is to be interesting, but judging by some of my posts, perhaps even that is not required.
Welcome aboard!
Just kidding. I think the only requirement is to be interesting, but judging by some of my posts, perhaps even that is not required.
Welcome aboard!
Don't be bashful; hacker mythology is more misunderstood than it has ever been, which is what makes it so interesting. We are all part of the elephant here and while many come and go the myth will remain ever-changing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_Men_and_an_Elephant
I'm aerospace turned hacker myself. Just curious, are there any others about in the same boat?
I'm not, but two of my cousins are aerospace engineers, and hackers in the inclusive sense. I think a venn diagram showing the essential qualities of a really good engineer and a hacker would be nearly indistinguishable from a slightly elliptical circle.
I did an aero undergrad, ended up in the nuclear field (running reactors & such). While I'm not a strict software "hacker", I mess around enough to hold my own here. So yes, there are others!
I prefer mutts ;) Too narrow a pedigree is not very interesting to me.
I'm not a hacker and I've always felt very welcome here. As others have suggested, definitely lurk around a bit to see what the norms are.
We're all painters.
you are welcome enough to be on the front page :) so welcome!
(though with mere 29 points (or karma, or whatever we call it) I don't think I have the 'authority' to welcome you just yet :)
Welcome! I grew up in Eugene, which was pretty boring too:-)
Yes !
Do you startup, er, startups that involve hackers??
Is this a test? Are you one of them? ;-)
oh no - I am nobody of consequence !
But I think you are welcome here. HN started out as startup news, so someone with you interests would fit in.
But I think you are welcome here. HN started out as startup news, so someone with you interests would fit in.
The first hacking I did was in 1982-ish on an Apple IIe. The last true hacking I did was in the early 90s using FORTRAN77. I wish I were more of a hacker now, but alas I don't have the patience.
Anyone can read and post to HN (and I have been doing both for about 6 months) but I'm curious who the core folks here are and what's the view of mutts like me?