Are Young People Having Enough Sex?(newyorker.com)
newyorker.com
Are Young People Having Enough Sex?
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2025/06/30/the-case-against-the-sexual-revolution-louise-perry-book-review-the-second-coming-carter-sherman
28 comments
Relationships are about more than offspring.
If money is tight, having a live-in partner is a cost saving. It doesn't have to be a romantic partner, though there are advantages to that.
In other words... I suspect that there is more to your sons not dating than the challenges of raising a family. And that's perfectly fine; not everybody has to pair off romantically.
If they do want a family, but without a romantic pairing... that's probably not a good idea. If they're hoping for a partner for the sole purpose of breeding without romantic attachment, they're going to find few takers no matter how much money they make.
If money is tight, having a live-in partner is a cost saving. It doesn't have to be a romantic partner, though there are advantages to that.
In other words... I suspect that there is more to your sons not dating than the challenges of raising a family. And that's perfectly fine; not everybody has to pair off romantically.
If they do want a family, but without a romantic pairing... that's probably not a good idea. If they're hoping for a partner for the sole purpose of breeding without romantic attachment, they're going to find few takers no matter how much money they make.
> If money is tight, having a live-in partner is a cost saving.
We're pretty close to a 4 income economy here.
> I suspect that there is more to your sons not dating than the challenges of raising a family.
Sure. I dated a lot because I had social skills - courtesy of a youth spent in adult-free, free roaming.
My kids had a modern upbringing. 24/7 adulting. Every day spent moving from one adult-populated, adult curated box to another. No free roaming or adult-free hours.
Think of the wretched economy as the guarantee, in case some hope survived their adult-ruined childhood.
We're pretty close to a 4 income economy here.
> I suspect that there is more to your sons not dating than the challenges of raising a family.
Sure. I dated a lot because I had social skills - courtesy of a youth spent in adult-free, free roaming.
My kids had a modern upbringing. 24/7 adulting. Every day spent moving from one adult-populated, adult curated box to another. No free roaming or adult-free hours.
Think of the wretched economy as the guarantee, in case some hope survived their adult-ruined childhood.
Income is inversely correlated with fertility
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_and_fertility
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_and_fertility
Personally I cant ever remember a time where I thought that far ahead.
Maybe I was one of the last "lucky ones" that did my teens and twenties when 'dating' was less official and its was closer to just, I like spending time with you.
Maybe I was one of the last "lucky ones" that did my teens and twenties when 'dating' was less official and its was closer to just, I like spending time with you.
Maybe you grew up before kids were locked into adult populated boxes 24/7.
Is that what they told you, or is it your own conclusion?
If you find that that special someone, you will work things out (and parents may be able to help), it's strange to hear an economic argument being made for not showing an interest in the opposite sex.
If you find that that special someone, you will work things out (and parents may be able to help), it's strange to hear an economic argument being made for not showing an interest in the opposite sex.
> Is that what they told you, or is it your own conclusion?
Me and my 5 adult sons live together. We talk about these things so I know.
> If you find that that special someone, you will work things out
Math says no. Two people working full time who make 60% of basic bills isn't sustainable. They might 'work things out' for one month or three.
But as long as that goes on, stress will grow. That kind of stress eats hope. Eventually the couple will lapse into survival mode where every day is numb.
The solution to this isn't more Will or Love or Good Thoughts.
The solution is an economy where a couple can support themselves on ≤2 typical incomes.
Me and my 5 adult sons live together. We talk about these things so I know.
> If you find that that special someone, you will work things out
Math says no. Two people working full time who make 60% of basic bills isn't sustainable. They might 'work things out' for one month or three.
But as long as that goes on, stress will grow. That kind of stress eats hope. Eventually the couple will lapse into survival mode where every day is numb.
The solution to this isn't more Will or Love or Good Thoughts.
The solution is an economy where a couple can support themselves on ≤2 typical incomes.
Send them abroad. Just like Parents from the rest of the world sent their kids to the US once upon a time. Move where the jobs and money move.
Waiting for politicians and corporations to fix the economy is like waiting for parasites to produce a corn field.
Waiting for politicians and corporations to fix the economy is like waiting for parasites to produce a corn field.
> Send them abroad.
If I had the money to do that I wouldn't need to live with my 5 adult sons.
> Move where the jobs and money move.
Reestablishing to another market requires a fat stack of cash and a lot of luck. More so for 6 people. Once there the clock is ticking and whatever cash remains is evaporating while everyone searches for work. If enough jobs aren't found in time, 6 people are homeless.
If I had the money to do that I wouldn't need to live with my 5 adult sons.
> Move where the jobs and money move.
Reestablishing to another market requires a fat stack of cash and a lot of luck. More so for 6 people. Once there the clock is ticking and whatever cash remains is evaporating while everyone searches for work. If enough jobs aren't found in time, 6 people are homeless.
Do you think every immigrant who moved to the US sat on large stacks of cash?
Go and talk to them and ask them how they did it cuz you have no idea what you are talking about.
> Reestablishing to another market requires a fat stack of cash and a lot of luck. If enough jobs aren't found in time, 6 people are homeless.
> Do you think every immigrant who moved to the US sat on large stacks of cash?
Not every one. Some had established family on the other end - and they had housing and jobs waiting for them. Some didn't and wound up homeless.
> you have no idea what you are talking about.
I've lived every bit of this. Including homelessness. Including distance moves made possible by family support. I can't imagine what qualifications you feel are needed.
> Do you think every immigrant who moved to the US sat on large stacks of cash?
Not every one. Some had established family on the other end - and they had housing and jobs waiting for them. Some didn't and wound up homeless.
> you have no idea what you are talking about.
I've lived every bit of this. Including homelessness. Including distance moves made possible by family support. I can't imagine what qualifications you feel are needed.
This is idealistic.
What a pity to come into this world when the train has already left.
This economy is so bad we can’t even afford recreational sex!
This economy is so bad we can’t even afford recreational sex!
Dating and relationships can be harmful, messy, and painful.
In an ever increasingly connected population, and over sharing being the norm, long-term evidence of mistakes and minor indiscretions (read: not advocating anything harmful) could haunt a person for life.
Sometimes the only way to win, is to not play.
In an ever increasingly connected population, and over sharing being the norm, long-term evidence of mistakes and minor indiscretions (read: not advocating anything harmful) could haunt a person for life.
Sometimes the only way to win, is to not play.
Where is the win? Life is a mixture of pain, joy, success, failure and so on. Ups and down. How would you know the value of something if you never experienced (some of) the opposite?
And yes we are over connected and over sharing but everyone can change his own fate here.. just get rid of all the social networks and meet people in real life. It is possible.
I truly think that social media is one of the worst things that happened to mankind and we still have not fully grasped all the damage it does. (And here I do not refer to occasional posting in web forums or HN or such.. but the mindless, addictive participation in Facebook, Tiktok etc. where the only gain is a dopamine hit.)
And yes we are over connected and over sharing but everyone can change his own fate here.. just get rid of all the social networks and meet people in real life. It is possible.
I truly think that social media is one of the worst things that happened to mankind and we still have not fully grasped all the damage it does. (And here I do not refer to occasional posting in web forums or HN or such.. but the mindless, addictive participation in Facebook, Tiktok etc. where the only gain is a dopamine hit.)
Work, friends, financial and other lifestyle decisions. All tend to have risks to ruin yourself and your life permanently.
I think that relationships are crucial for the quality of living and not seeking depth in those may be more detrimental than most things I mentioned above.
Especially, the today's 'connected' societies which often give false premise of socializing and promote ideas of isolating yourself from deeper relationships.
I think that relationships are crucial for the quality of living and not seeking depth in those may be more detrimental than most things I mentioned above.
Especially, the today's 'connected' societies which often give false premise of socializing and promote ideas of isolating yourself from deeper relationships.
> Dating and relationships can be harmful, messy, and painful.
Also marriage. And parenting.
Which makes you pretty correct about the relationship part.
Also marriage. And parenting.
Which makes you pretty correct about the relationship part.
You haven't told us what -you- have been telling your sons about women & marriage. How was your love life?
> You haven't told us what -you- have been telling your sons about women & marriage.
I told my sons about people and relationships. They know way more than I did at their age.
> How was your love life?
I assume you mean sex. No one wants to know about their parents sex life at any age. Wisdom endlessly reinforces that.
I told my sons about people and relationships. They know way more than I did at their age.
> How was your love life?
I assume you mean sex. No one wants to know about their parents sex life at any age. Wisdom endlessly reinforces that.
Heh. I'd argue employment is worse.
It's hard to get in the mood when there's all of *gestures broadly at everything* is going on.
Amazing that the author tip toed around that part of it.
Amazing that the author tip toed around that part of it.
> d.j.s and floor-mattress degenerates
Hey, not all floor-mattress folk are degenerates.
Hey, not all floor-mattress folk are degenerates.
It is impossible for 2 typical wage earners to pair off and start a family.