Retrocide Mono – A monospaced font with no decenders(geonot.github.io)
geonot.github.io
Retrocide Mono – A monospaced font with no decenders
https://geonot.github.io/retrocide-mono/
62 comments
I'm unsure if "no descenders" provides increased clarity. For example, lowercase q is easy to recognize because your eyes are already drawn to it being one of few characters that descend. In the case of this font, you have a small uppercase Q as the lowercase q. This feels like it accomplishes the opposite of this stated benefit.
> I'm unsure if "no descenders" provides increased clarity.
Of course not: if it did we would be doing it that way everywhere. Typeface design has thousands of years of history, there's only a few major variations in latin types and we've tried them all. Descenders exist for a reason.
This type is pretty cool for what it is meant for, the retro aesthetics. Old school digital displays (like alarm clocks) don't have descenders so it fits pretty well.
Of course not: if it did we would be doing it that way everywhere. Typeface design has thousands of years of history, there's only a few major variations in latin types and we've tried them all. Descenders exist for a reason.
This type is pretty cool for what it is meant for, the retro aesthetics. Old school digital displays (like alarm clocks) don't have descenders so it fits pretty well.
> Descenders exist for a reason.
Yeah but I wouldn't just assume it's because they are the optimal solution. Look at architectural handwriting, very clear, no descenders.
Yeah but I wouldn't just assume it's because they are the optimal solution. Look at architectural handwriting, very clear, no descenders.
> Look at architectural handwriting, very clear, no descenders.
I just looked it up, and every example I see has descenders in the lowercase letters.
I just looked it up, and every example I see has descenders in the lowercase letters.
technical drawings and notes are almost always all caps
It doesn’t really count as “no descenders” if you’re only using letters which don’t have any to begin with. And all caps is harder to read fluidly, so that also doesn’t support the point.
Yes, they've specifically chosen to avoid ascenders/descenders for clarity and uniform spacing. I don't see how that's not relevant.
> I don't see how that's not relevant.
Because it’s apples to oranges.
Deciding “my typeface won’t have any lowercase letters” is not the same as “my typeface won’t have descenders”. Technically none of them has descenders, but the former compromises by reducing the amount of characters—which keeps every remaining letterform distinct at the expense of reading fluidity—while the latter compromises by distorting a good chunk of letters—making them ambiguous and harder to read.
I very much doubt architects decided “let’s write everything in all caps because that avoids descenders”.
And again, while looking it up I see no end of examples of technical writing with lowercase letters, and they all have descenders.
Because it’s apples to oranges.
Deciding “my typeface won’t have any lowercase letters” is not the same as “my typeface won’t have descenders”. Technically none of them has descenders, but the former compromises by reducing the amount of characters—which keeps every remaining letterform distinct at the expense of reading fluidity—while the latter compromises by distorting a good chunk of letters—making them ambiguous and harder to read.
I very much doubt architects decided “let’s write everything in all caps because that avoids descenders”.
And again, while looking it up I see no end of examples of technical writing with lowercase letters, and they all have descenders.
Listen brother, some guy said "because this is how it is, obviously that's because it's better". All I did is say idk about that, and gave a simple counter example.
And we're talking about a monospaced font for your terminal. To me, that's more akin to technical drawing than publishing a book.
In my experience technical drawings often use all caps, which have no ascenders/descenders, and you googling specifically to find a counter example doesn't change that. NASA, for example, https://s3vi.ndc.nasa.gov/ssri-kb/static/resources/NASA%20GS...
And we're talking about a monospaced font for your terminal. To me, that's more akin to technical drawing than publishing a book.
In my experience technical drawings often use all caps, which have no ascenders/descenders, and you googling specifically to find a counter example doesn't change that. NASA, for example, https://s3vi.ndc.nasa.gov/ssri-kb/static/resources/NASA%20GS...
Many styles of architectural handwriting use descenders in the lower case. (Many other styles forbid or disdain the lower case.)
Yep, I agree. Your eyes need these clues to help you read at speed. When every character looks similar, you have to slow down to look at individual characters, rather than just glancing at a whole word.
Was wondering this to. Then I saw the final item in the list of uses: ASCII art...
At a glance, the phrase about it on the site looks like it's saying "Retro aesthetic meets modern claritu"
The qu i ck brown f ox jumps over the lazy do 9
Letter spacing is not great for that 'i' indeed. Monospace fonts use a very wide serif at the bottom, or an extended arm to make the i appear equally-spaced, which this typeface seems to have ignored.
Thanks for the feedback. I'll give this a try.
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Hey, this is my first font design, constructive criticism welcome! Thanks.
You’ve picked a difficult way to make your first typeface. A monoline design with a strict vector grid doesn’t leave a lot of room for the kind of optical adjustments needed for balanced and readable letter shapes. But I think even if you want to be strict about those restrictions there is a lot of room for improvement in consistency and composition of each shape.
I started to write actionable suggestions about individual letters but realized it’s probably better to drop this link, which starts at how to draw an ”A” and continues with every letter of the alphabet. https://ohnotype.co/blog/ohno-type-school-a
I started to write actionable suggestions about individual letters but realized it’s probably better to drop this link, which starts at how to draw an ”A” and continues with every letter of the alphabet. https://ohnotype.co/blog/ohno-type-school-a
It's very nice, but why? The lack of descenders makes it slightly harder to read. More of the letters look the same.
It's perfect for my use case, which is making individual square letters to print. PITA to ensure that the square are uniform when the letters are not uniform in size.
Aesthetically, great. But i can't help but find it harder to read this font. Probably cool for things such as a poster or album art, but not something i'd enjoy using in my code editor.
Lowercase f, l and t are crimes against humanity.
Please add a github release with the assets (ttf, otf, etc.). I'm developing an open-source font repository+downloader and it will make it easier to write an install script for it.
Great job! I've tried many times to design a font and failed.
That said, here's some: I'd love to see multiple weights. Not just bold, the new fonts can have multiple weights. Italic could help also but with the letters staying in the box. Also, the letters are too much to the left to my liking. Large amount of space between letters makes it even more visible.
That said, here's some: I'd love to see multiple weights. Not just bold, the new fonts can have multiple weights. Italic could help also but with the letters staying in the box. Also, the letters are too much to the left to my liking. Large amount of space between letters makes it even more visible.
Cool concept.
I like the lowercase q a lot.
The misaligned dot (tittle) on the lowercase i and j bugs me.
It feels off to have it at different heights.
I'd try making the i taller to match the j.
No descenders - fine. But I find the lowercase L, and to a lesser extent the lowercase F, very unpleasant looking. Something to do with the overly intrusive and segmented curve.
I'd prefer a greater difference between ( ) and { }, and between : and ;
But that's for using it as my daily driver, which doesn't seem to be the actual motivation.
But that's for using it as my daily driver, which doesn't seem to be the actual motivation.
I really like the look of the font, great job!
The vertical lines look a bit thin on my ~110PPI screen. Especially the down line in lowercase 'p'.
Love how legible this is. Exactly how my brain (trained on 8-bit micros) expects a font to look!
Did you ask Claude to make your design futuristic? I sometimes get the same layout haha.
I find it legible except for y becoming u
Amazing effort for a first font. I probably won't use it, but who cares! It's cool.
Do more fonts. Do more things. I thank you.
Do more fonts. Do more things. I thank you.
I hate myself for loving Retrocide so much. Well done.
What's the benefit of no descenders?
In theory it allows to pack text tighter with minimal line spacing.
its popular in basic games where fonts are made from bitmap glyphs and pixels are at a premium.
Aesthetics, if that's your thing.
The squished descenders are surprisingly not horrible. (They are horrible in some actual 80s fonts from 8-bit devices.) But I don't like the giant intrusive 'l' that looks like a ladle, it's got too much character.
Looks cool, I feel like lowercase g and maybe p could be a bit taller, g looks a bit out of place with its height.
Flashbacks to the Okidata Microline 80 dot matrix printer I used in high school (early 1980s) - it had a 7-wire print head, so no descenders and lower case "g" was particularly bad (basically to get the detail in 7 lines it had a squashed shape and it was moved up in the box, looking more like a weird "9".) My teachers were... tolerant but mildly annoyed, mostly because they knew just how bad my handwriting was :-)
I like the retro look-and-feel, I just don't find it especially readable.
It reminds me of the rather strange story of the Mormon "Deseret Alphabet" which was designed to not have descenders, in order to reduce uneven wear on the pieces of type.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deseret_alphabet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deseret_alphabet
Looks cool, I wouldn’t code with this but for something like game decals it could be nice.
My main problem is the low height of the lower case letters. For coding I prefer fonts that actually have them slightly taller than normal (namely JetBrains Mono)
My main problem is the low height of the lower case letters. For coding I prefer fonts that actually have them slightly taller than normal (namely JetBrains Mono)
Cool! I love it! To really show it off you could compare yours vs a regular one with line height = 0.9 or something
I could see using this for a specialized use, for a game or a presentation. But day to day use, the jarring design of the letters that would have had descenders would be like a mental speed bump for me.
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Tried this on my 24" 1080p screen as a vscode font, but it is way to thin. Seeems there is no font weight support to make it "bolder"?
Ancient Latin and Ancient Greek also did just that: lowercase didn’t exist yet.
Makes me want to try and write code in uppercase only (or not).
I like the theme of the website, though!
Makes me want to try and write code in uppercase only (or not).
I like the theme of the website, though!
when showcasing fonts please also showcase pre-rendered font images, because some of us override website fonts for legibility (and possibly speed or memory consumption)
Sorry, but it's hard to read for me. I have to really look at what's written to recognise the letters. That's the opposite of a good font. Good font is easy to run through. But maybe it's just me.
I hate the lowercase l. it looks off center.
I kinda hate it... I mean it looks cool aesthetically, but IMO it's actually harder to read.
It's really hard to tell at a glance which letters are capitalized or not