Stepping Down as Framework Linux Community Ambassadors(community.frame.work)
community.frame.work
Stepping Down as Framework Linux Community Ambassadors
https://community.frame.work/t/stepping-down-as-framework-linux-community-ambassadors/77374
50 comments
Apparently, the two resignees refused to talk to the CEO of Framework despite the CEO offering his time https://pan.rent/@[email protected]/115486043718543717
Too bad. I think the offer to talk is a respectful move. The CEO doesn't seem to be trying to fob them off, unlike Mozilla's recent translator mess.
Too bad. I think the offer to talk is a respectful move. The CEO doesn't seem to be trying to fob them off, unlike Mozilla's recent translator mess.
I really hope Framework ignores these people. They are not Linux Ambassadors, they are political activists. These people only care about their ideology and anyone who doesn't blindly follow it gets defamed.
I, and I would imagine many, are tired of this sort of binary thinking. You are either part of the problem or part of the solution. Society can't function like this.
I, and I would imagine many, are tired of this sort of binary thinking. You are either part of the problem or part of the solution. Society can't function like this.
Society can't function when people aren't allowed to make their own choices.
Why can't they choose political activism? What on earth binds them to a corporate entity and over-rides their agency?
If you want to step up and be an Ambassador, go for it! But if you think they should be compelled to do so, that's an ideological/political point of view of yours and you need to substantiate it.
Why can't they choose political activism? What on earth binds them to a corporate entity and over-rides their agency?
If you want to step up and be an Ambassador, go for it! But if you think they should be compelled to do so, that's an ideological/political point of view of yours and you need to substantiate it.
>Society can't function when people aren't allowed to make their own choices.
>Why can't they choose political activism? What on earth binds them to a corporate entity and over-rides their agency?
For the same reasons you don't want Christians proselytizing at work, or using a company's platform to talk about their Lord and savior.
>Why can't they choose political activism? What on earth binds them to a corporate entity and over-rides their agency?
For the same reasons you don't want Christians proselytizing at work, or using a company's platform to talk about their Lord and savior.
What is their ideology? Being political activists? How?
These are two people stepping down from community position because they don't agree with actions/direction of the project. There is nothing bizarre about that. They posted why they don't agree and that's it.
These are two people stepping down from community position because they don't agree with actions/direction of the project. There is nothing bizarre about that. They posted why they don't agree and that's it.
> What is their ideology? Being political activists? How?
In today's post-truth landscape, words no longer mean their literal meaning, but are used as weapons.
The person you were replying to is very much aware that they are not literally a political activist. However, they find their positions so disagreeable that they want to label them as political activists because it creates a very specific connotation in people's heads.
It is about the furthest thing from a good faith framing that you can possibly get. But it's pretty par for course on Hacker News.
In today's post-truth landscape, words no longer mean their literal meaning, but are used as weapons.
The person you were replying to is very much aware that they are not literally a political activist. However, they find their positions so disagreeable that they want to label them as political activists because it creates a very specific connotation in people's heads.
It is about the furthest thing from a good faith framing that you can possibly get. But it's pretty par for course on Hacker News.
>What is their ideology?
Terminally online leftism.
Terminally online leftism.
Low-intelligence people are masters of black-and-white thinking.
I usually stay afar of those 'too political for tech/gaming' stuff as long as no one is harassed (like Hyprland), but Omarchy is a litter box of a distrib, and doesn't deserve any money. I'd even take Ubuntu over it.
100% agree. I am not even sure why would company wanted to support that type of half baked distro that brings nothing... except dhh? Seems like they want him to endorse them so they bribe him by supporting his pet project.
Good for them. Standing up for ones own morality is what we should all aim for no matter the personal consequences or political side.
> blinded by the Western patriarchal narrative that technology in itself is not political
I have no idea what this was supposed to mean.
I have no idea what this was supposed to mean.
Let me break it down for you:
Western: of or pertaining to the part of the world where the dominant culture is European (most of it colonized)
Patriarchal: of or pertaining to male-dominated society
Narrative: a story we tell ourselves to impart meaning to the world
Technology in itself is not political: the false (see "narrative" above) idea that technology is politically "neutral" and that the mere existence or use of a technology does not in and of itself reinforce domination or oppression
Western: of or pertaining to the part of the world where the dominant culture is European (most of it colonized)
Patriarchal: of or pertaining to male-dominated society
Narrative: a story we tell ourselves to impart meaning to the world
Technology in itself is not political: the false (see "narrative" above) idea that technology is politically "neutral" and that the mere existence or use of a technology does not in and of itself reinforce domination or oppression
Ironic considering it's a "Western patriarchal narrative" that everything is "political," and every space should be used as a platform to air the political grievances of the day.
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Is (a given) technology good or bad? Western culture says it's not, that technology is neutral. Others have conflicting opinions.
And what does a "patriarchy" have to do with anything?
People that unironically use that word are generally better ignored. And after reading the linked comment thread they're trying to portrait as problematic... I can only say that framework is better off without them. They're not in a healthy mindset and will inevitably drum up controversy for asinine things, worsening the image of Framework
People that unironically use that word are generally better ignored. And after reading the linked comment thread they're trying to portrait as problematic... I can only say that framework is better off without them. They're not in a healthy mindset and will inevitably drum up controversy for asinine things, worsening the image of Framework
It’s a thought stopping cliche in the form of an ad hominem shotgun whose trigger is tied to the door handle. You can’t disagree with the author’s take on technology or you’re a bigot and probably a misogynist and a fascist.
I hate watching fascism take over, and that’s why I hate this kind of leftist purity culture. It’s a big thing pushing people to the right.
Of course the far right does it too, which pushes people back the other way I guess.
The present day left and right are like having one obnoxious self righteous asshole screaming in each ear. I have never in my life seen the public discourse in worse shape.
I hate watching fascism take over, and that’s why I hate this kind of leftist purity culture. It’s a big thing pushing people to the right.
Of course the far right does it too, which pushes people back the other way I guess.
The present day left and right are like having one obnoxious self righteous asshole screaming in each ear. I have never in my life seen the public discourse in worse shape.
Every list of 'thought stopping cliche's must also contain 'thought stopping cliche'.
The right wing fascist culture is the left's fault, sure kiddo.
If you like fascism just be proud and say, "I am a fascist."
Who do you think will actually believe you when you say "I hated fascism until the leftists made me like fascism" anyway?
The right wing fascist culture is the left's fault, sure kiddo.
If you like fascism just be proud and say, "I am a fascist."
Who do you think will actually believe you when you say "I hated fascism until the leftists made me like fascism" anyway?
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I can’t tell if this is facetious. The world’s gone mad.
Allow me to explain through an example:
When I protest that LLMs stole the collective creative output of all of humanity and are now trying to sell it back to us to supplant human creative output, or that it is an ecological, or economic, disaster, further consolidating wealth and power in a few narcissistic sociopaths, and defendants reply, "bUt ThE CApAbIlitIEs!!1!"
When I protest that LLMs stole the collective creative output of all of humanity and are now trying to sell it back to us to supplant human creative output, or that it is an ecological, or economic, disaster, further consolidating wealth and power in a few narcissistic sociopaths, and defendants reply, "bUt ThE CApAbIlitIEs!!1!"
That’s not a problem with LLMs as a technology. It’s a problem with how LLM companies have been allowed to violate copyright at industrial scale. It’s a political and social problem.
The same indictment can be made about search companies and social media: that they are monetizing others work without compensation.
Or is there something about the tech that requires that it be deployed in this way?
My position is that LLMs trained without proper copyright authorization should not be copyrightable. They should be public domain.
As for the energy use: we either get our energy from polluting sources or we don’t. What we do with it is secondary. If we’re not using it to run AI we’d be using it to get a burrito delivered.
The same indictment can be made about search companies and social media: that they are monetizing others work without compensation.
Or is there something about the tech that requires that it be deployed in this way?
My position is that LLMs trained without proper copyright authorization should not be copyrightable. They should be public domain.
As for the energy use: we either get our energy from polluting sources or we don’t. What we do with it is secondary. If we’re not using it to run AI we’d be using it to get a burrito delivered.
So you identify the problems. I guess they happened out of thin air? The broken copyright has been allowed by someone... someone BAD!
Or maybe the companies broke the law, lobbied as much as possible, broke the law more, then bribed anyone with political power until they got to god emperor himself who said “this is progress”. And everything was just fine.
But that would mean that technology is political issue.
Or maybe the companies broke the law, lobbied as much as possible, broke the law more, then bribed anyone with political power until they got to god emperor himself who said “this is progress”. And everything was just fine.
But that would mean that technology is political issue.
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Uhh… that’s what I said. The problem is political.
The substantial political lobbying arms behind the ai bubble, big oil, and big coal thank you for your service.
Previous thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45526715
This comment sums up my own feelings towards this concisely :
> This is not a “I do not like this distribution” kind of argument.
> This is a “the people you are sending my money to want me and my friends dead or deported” kind of argument.
from: https://community.frame.work/t/framework-supporting-far-righ...
Beyond the disappointment I have in framework for giving my money to someone so clearly off the rails, it's also disappointing to see it wasted on such a poor distribution as well. Omarchy, in isolation, is just a bloated arch install with thrown together scripts, zoom, spotify, and google apps preinstalled. I appreciate that it brought new people into linux but there are countless more polished and creative distributions that would be excellent to see partner with framework instead.
> This is not a “I do not like this distribution” kind of argument.
> This is a “the people you are sending my money to want me and my friends dead or deported” kind of argument.
from: https://community.frame.work/t/framework-supporting-far-righ...
Beyond the disappointment I have in framework for giving my money to someone so clearly off the rails, it's also disappointing to see it wasted on such a poor distribution as well. Omarchy, in isolation, is just a bloated arch install with thrown together scripts, zoom, spotify, and google apps preinstalled. I appreciate that it brought new people into linux but there are countless more polished and creative distributions that would be excellent to see partner with framework instead.
They also sponsored other open source projects, which is good for community.
A distro is not good doesnt mean it does not deserve sponsorship
I agree with that sentiment, and I think if framework had been working with several small lower quality distributions to support the overall ecosystem this may not have come across as poorly as it did. Looking at their supported distros they have, officially: Fedora, Ubuntu, Bazzite, and then community: Linux Mint, Arch, Bluefin, and NixOS. Each of these are high quality projects that each fill a niche well and while no longer listed Omarchy stood out as being much less polished than the others.
> is just a bloated arch install with thrown together scripts, zoom, spotify, and google apps preinstalled.
Don't forget the pre-installed Basecamp and Hey!
Don't forget the pre-installed Basecamp and Hey!
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1. Fascists should be fought everywhere and all the time so their ideas never get normalized.
2. Everything we do is political, tech is VERY political, stop daydreaming.
A tolerant society cannot tolerate intolerance lest it gets destroyed by it.
2. Everything we do is political, tech is VERY political, stop daydreaming.
A tolerant society cannot tolerate intolerance lest it gets destroyed by it.
Maybe so but please avoid mini-sermons like this on HN. We're here for curious conversation, not these kinds of grand pronouncements; it's likely far more effective to speak to one another normally, as peers rather than barraging people with rhertoric.
Please have a read of the guidelines and try to keep things conversational in future. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Please have a read of the guidelines and try to keep things conversational in future. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
grigio(2)
ptdorf(1)
draxter65(2)
periodjet(1)
However, I am glad this happened. New Linux Ambassadors will step up and this issue will be buried into the alternative social media communities such as Mastodon, never to be heard of again.
I disagree that Framework will lose a meaningful amount of business over this.