Ask HN: can I transfer a $6,000 Kindle book onto PC, DRM-free?
53 comments
The files are in a standard format (mobipocket with the extension changed to azw). They do have Amazon DRM on them, but you can still back them up over the USB connection.
You can of course also break the DRM; the program to do that is here: http://www.mininova.org/tor/1412688.
You can of course also break the DRM; the program to do that is here: http://www.mininova.org/tor/1412688.
It's really simple. Amazon may make things convenient, but, they're also holding you to their beck and whim with these devices. Hold out until you can can own drm-free software and products so you can actually own things. If you don't, you're leasing something from Amazon and stealing it if you break the DRM.
Support fair business practices. DRM isn't.
Support fair business practices. DRM isn't.
Jesus... Looks like I'm sticking to laptops + PDFs. From product reviews:
"... if your Kindle 1 breaks or you purchase a Kindle 2 all your Newspaper and Magazine issues will be UNREADABLE on the replacement or new device ..."
Here is one more, seems like committing to electronic formats you're asking for trouble even when upgrading to another version of the same product:
"... I have a tremendous volume of Kindle content (public domain and Amazon). I discovered that I could not directly transfer from my computer backup for Kindle 1 to the new K2 ..."
Another one:
"... Although Amazon says it keeps you content on their server, I found many instances where I could not download my books to my computer because the item THAT I PAID FOR was not available for download to my new Kindle2..."
"... if your Kindle 1 breaks or you purchase a Kindle 2 all your Newspaper and Magazine issues will be UNREADABLE on the replacement or new device ..."
Here is one more, seems like committing to electronic formats you're asking for trouble even when upgrading to another version of the same product:
"... I have a tremendous volume of Kindle content (public domain and Amazon). I discovered that I could not directly transfer from my computer backup for Kindle 1 to the new K2 ..."
Another one:
"... Although Amazon says it keeps you content on their server, I found many instances where I could not download my books to my computer because the item THAT I PAID FOR was not available for download to my new Kindle2..."
But really... There are other ebook readers besides the kindle..
iRex let you use open formats, and the software is also opensource and in continuous development: http://www.irextechnologies.com/
iRex let you use open formats, and the software is also opensource and in continuous development: http://www.irextechnologies.com/
A lot of the Kindle's source is Open Source as well, under a GPL license. http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?ie=UTF8&...
In my opinion, the Kindle is not as useful as an eBook reader (due to DRM, etc), as it is a text-based web browser with free Internet access:
http://tinyapps.org/weblog/misc/200904300700_kindle_free_web...
http://tinyapps.org/weblog/misc/200904300700_kindle_free_web...
Your concern is legitimate, but I think you can count on one (and probably both) of two things happening to protect you:
(1) Amazon or others will sell replacement devices or software that support the same DRM'd formats, so you will have continuity of access. (For example, since iPhones can also read Kindle books, and presumably Android phones too at some point, there will be multiple reading platforms.)
(2) The progress of time and mores will render the DRM effectively inert, as with all other DRM formats used on popular/mass content.
There is a bit of faith required, but not much -- that one or both of these occur fits a trend as strong as Moore's Law.
(1) Amazon or others will sell replacement devices or software that support the same DRM'd formats, so you will have continuity of access. (For example, since iPhones can also read Kindle books, and presumably Android phones too at some point, there will be multiple reading platforms.)
(2) The progress of time and mores will render the DRM effectively inert, as with all other DRM formats used on popular/mass content.
There is a bit of faith required, but not much -- that one or both of these occur fits a trend as strong as Moore's Law.
Moore's law broke a little while back.
I'll likely get downmodded for this, but someone has to speak truth to poster:
There's no way to read Amazon-protected content without using an Amazon-approved device (Kindle, Kinde for iPhone) or cracking the DRM. Cracking the DRM is illegal. I don't care how justified you think you are in doing it, ethically the situation is a simple one: play by the rules or don't play. Is that really so hard?
Remember, not only is purchasing-then-cracking DRM against the law and morally ambiguous, it also gives the sponsors of the protected content artificial financial incentive to continue in their DRM ways -- a situation I think we all agree we would like to see end sooner rather than later. If you're really so indignant about not being able to backup your $6000 investment or whatever, the only winning move is not to play.
There's no way to read Amazon-protected content without using an Amazon-approved device (Kindle, Kinde for iPhone) or cracking the DRM. Cracking the DRM is illegal. I don't care how justified you think you are in doing it, ethically the situation is a simple one: play by the rules or don't play. Is that really so hard?
Remember, not only is purchasing-then-cracking DRM against the law and morally ambiguous, it also gives the sponsors of the protected content artificial financial incentive to continue in their DRM ways -- a situation I think we all agree we would like to see end sooner rather than later. If you're really so indignant about not being able to backup your $6000 investment or whatever, the only winning move is not to play.
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Foxit Software (my choice for PDF readers) is coming out with something called the eSlick which reads any kind of PDF you can throw at it. Check it out http://www.foxitsoftware.com/ebook/
anything you buy on your kindle remains in your amazon.com account, and you can redownload it anytime (e.g. if you get a new kindle). http://qzip.in/n9
i don't think you can put it on a PC unless you hack it.
i don't think you can put it on a PC unless you hack it.
I think he is referring to the notion that amazon could in theory discontinue the ebook/kindle line of products leaving him stranded without the books he paid for.
This is not as far fetched as it seems. Look at a few examples from the music business: Microsoft discontinued support for their music download service. Walmart did the same thing to their DRM laden music. Now anyone that purchased music with DRM from those two is sol if their computer/OS goes down and they need to reinstall. since they cannot authenticate to the DRM servers the music stops.
Solution to the music: use providers that do not want to cripple you. (Amazon MP3 download is the way I have been getting all my music.)
Solution to the E-Book: You could probably strip out the drm from the kindle protected books. It is probably against the law in some countries though.
This is not as far fetched as it seems. Look at a few examples from the music business: Microsoft discontinued support for their music download service. Walmart did the same thing to their DRM laden music. Now anyone that purchased music with DRM from those two is sol if their computer/OS goes down and they need to reinstall. since they cannot authenticate to the DRM servers the music stops.
Solution to the music: use providers that do not want to cripple you. (Amazon MP3 download is the way I have been getting all my music.)
Solution to the E-Book: You could probably strip out the drm from the kindle protected books. It is probably against the law in some countries though.
Amazon is a book store, so their ebook service shutting down would be like Microsoft discontinuing Windows. Not too likely.
They do indeed discontinue windows just different versions of windows. What happens when XP suits you just fine but Microsoft decides that it costs too much to keep the activation servers running and you want to activate your legit copy of xp on a new machine. You are then forced to either:
1) Break the law and crack it. Doing this you will not be eligible for the updates that are there. In cracking it you are going to run a program that probably contains a virus/rootkit/trojan/whatever.
2) Reinstall the os every 30 days to bypass activation.
3) Need to buy/install a newer OS because you are at the mercy of a corporation with respect to DRM.
1) Break the law and crack it. Doing this you will not be eligible for the updates that are there. In cracking it you are going to run a program that probably contains a virus/rootkit/trojan/whatever.
2) Reinstall the os every 30 days to bypass activation.
3) Need to buy/install a newer OS because you are at the mercy of a corporation with respect to DRM.
Amazon itself could shut down. If the recession has taught us anything it should be that we can't expect companies to be immortal.
If Amazon shuts down it means we've all been dead for weeks.
As my friend Adam points out, at $6,400, they should just throw the Kindle in for free.
I'm pretty amazed that noone has released a cheap, open e-reader with an e-paper screen. Seems like such a beast would be an easy sell.
There is also the fact that you quite simply cannot do a combination of "cheap" and "e-ink screen" right now. Manufacturing is still too expensive, even in volume.
There's basically one manufacturer for all e-ink-esque screens (PVI). The consequence of that fact is that there's not a ton of room for price flexibility: everyone's using pretty much the same screens sold at pretty much the same price, and so there's not a ton of leeway to combine e-ink with a "cheap" device.
This may change over time, as other e-ink-alike technologies come online, but it is the current state of affairs, and it's why everything is in such a narrow price band.
Buying "open" e-ink reader devices isn't that hard: just about every but the kindle has .pdf compatibility, for example.
There is no "open" ebook format the way .mp3s are "open": all major publishers that sell ebooks sell in drm-ed formats, and only independents and small-timers and oddballs sell legit content in unprotected .pdf.
Edit: http://www.pvi.com.tw/en/index/index.php is PVI.
This may change over time, as other e-ink-alike technologies come online, but it is the current state of affairs, and it's why everything is in such a narrow price band.
Buying "open" e-ink reader devices isn't that hard: just about every but the kindle has .pdf compatibility, for example.
There is no "open" ebook format the way .mp3s are "open": all major publishers that sell ebooks sell in drm-ed formats, and only independents and small-timers and oddballs sell legit content in unprotected .pdf.
Edit: http://www.pvi.com.tw/en/index/index.php is PVI.
It's because the reader is only as good as the content and an open reader has limited content.
That's just simply not true - Project Gutenberg (http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_Page) begs to differ.
Let me help you figure this out:
-----------------------------------------
The Project Gutenberg "Top 5":
The Outline of Science, Vol. 1 (of 4) by J. Arthur Thomson (531)
Manners, Customs, and Dress During the Middle Ages and During the Renaissance Period by P. L. Jacob (453)
Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen (324)
Illustrated History of Furniture by Frederick Litchfield (303)
Searchlights on Health by B. G. Jefferis and J. L. Nichols (270)
-----------------------------------------
The Kindle "Top 5"
The Last Olympian by Rick Riordan
Liberty and Tyranny: A Conservative Manifesto by Mark R. Levin
First Family by David Baldacci
The 8th Confession by James Patterson
Dead and Gone (Sookie Stackhouse, Book 9) by Charlaine Harris
-----------------------------------------
The Project Gutenberg "Top 5":
The Outline of Science, Vol. 1 (of 4) by J. Arthur Thomson (531)
Manners, Customs, and Dress During the Middle Ages and During the Renaissance Period by P. L. Jacob (453)
Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen (324)
Illustrated History of Furniture by Frederick Litchfield (303)
Searchlights on Health by B. G. Jefferis and J. L. Nichols (270)
-----------------------------------------
The Kindle "Top 5"
The Last Olympian by Rick Riordan
Liberty and Tyranny: A Conservative Manifesto by Mark R. Levin
First Family by David Baldacci
The 8th Confession by James Patterson
Dead and Gone (Sookie Stackhouse, Book 9) by Charlaine Harris
Amazon's offerings dwarf Project Gutenberg to a degree that it's not even worth discussing. The iPod wouldn't have gone anywhere if it could only play out of copyright music. Sure, there are a few dorks out there that would go for it but the vast majority of the public has no interest.
I think the problem is one of market... You could sell the device but you wouldn't have a lot of content to sell with it (which is where the money is). Amazon also has wireless deals to make content even easier to access.
It would have a tough time being a sustainable business given the costs of prototyping, making deals with wireless providers, etc. and the alternative of just offering the device just doesn't seem worth the time.
It would have a tough time being a sustainable business given the costs of prototyping, making deals with wireless providers, etc. and the alternative of just offering the device just doesn't seem worth the time.
There are many, many sites that sell legit ebooks. Check out booksonboard and fictionwise, to name just two. Unfortunately, like Amazon's ebooks, most of these are DRM'd.
The wireless thing is cool, but ereaders existed for a long time without them. I think it would be cool to have whispernet, but it is by no means essential to the enjoyment of my ereader. The next gen bebook will have wifi access to read rss reads etc. as well.
The wireless thing is cool, but ereaders existed for a long time without them. I think it would be cool to have whispernet, but it is by no means essential to the enjoyment of my ereader. The next gen bebook will have wifi access to read rss reads etc. as well.
There is the bebook, lbook, hanlin v3. These are all the same system, based on open source components. They read many open formats, plus doc, pdf, chm and even DRM'd mobipocket files. I am surprised that they are not more widely known. They are not exactly cheap if you live in the US, that's because of the low dollar and the high cost of the e-paper screen, I think.
http://www.foxitsoftware.com/ebook/
I guess someone did. :)
Although, I got the Sony when it first came out ( the lack of DRM in it attracted me) I am very satisfied with it
I guess someone did. :)
Although, I got the Sony when it first came out ( the lack of DRM in it attracted me) I am very satisfied with it
Especially if it includes a torrent client!
No matter what, I don't do DRM. Won't do it. If that means in 20 years I'm alone in a cabin with a bunch of old books, so be it.
You should have thought about this before buying an over-hyped DRM-riddled gadget. This is EXACTLY why DRM schemes are BAD.
Can't the new Kindles read pdf? I'm sure there are conversion tools out there.
Kindle DX can handle them natively; On K2, they have to be converted first, a service which Amazon provides.
you may be interested in this: http://www.foxitsoftware.com/ebook/
why do you think Amazon will ditch the kindle?
Most products eventually disappear, particularly electronic gadget types.
But that's not the point here. The point is that I want to own my books, there are many reasons all of us should want this.
For one, ebook market is growing and Kindle isn't even close to being "iPhone of ebooks": there are some interesting models from Sony, plus I'd like copies of my books on my computers and on my iPhone. I don't want some cheap disposable device to have full control over (eventually) thousands of dollars of my books, that's just silly.
But that's not the point here. The point is that I want to own my books, there are many reasons all of us should want this.
For one, ebook market is growing and Kindle isn't even close to being "iPhone of ebooks": there are some interesting models from Sony, plus I'd like copies of my books on my computers and on my iPhone. I don't want some cheap disposable device to have full control over (eventually) thousands of dollars of my books, that's just silly.
and I want to own my iTunes music, but I didn't for a long time - welcome to the digital age.
A lot of people, myself included, kept far away from the iTMS for this very reason until recently.
Ironically it was Amazon that was providing the alternative to the DRM-laden product in that instance; I wonder who'll figure out a way to be the Good Guy w/r/t the Kindle now that Amazon has decided to take a crack at the DRM game?
Ironically it was Amazon that was providing the alternative to the DRM-laden product in that instance; I wonder who'll figure out a way to be the Good Guy w/r/t the Kindle now that Amazon has decided to take a crack at the DRM game?
You can still own your music if you buy Amazon mp3s.
HTML is the answer, it is future proof, it is 100% portable.
Now we need a solution to move all ebook formats to html.
Now we need a solution to move all ebook formats to html.
HTML utterly fails at typography. Books need typography. Therefore, HTML should not be used for books.
Although, not every book is a House of Leaves.
Interesting book, html6 should be able to display it exactly as intended. Even showing text upside down, and divs floating in the middle of two columns.
If not, we're not doing the right thing.
If not, we're not doing the right thing.
If html fails at typography (as you pointed out without any further explanation) then we should evolve html.
I insist, html is the answer.
I insist, html is the answer.
Changing html to support more exact and more advanced typographical features is a possibility. Problem: diversity and noncompliance of interpreters.
XHTML maybe? Some XML dialect? I can see these working if the toolchain (generators, interpreters, transformers) is tightly controlled or harshly forces compliance. Even still, I'd like my books to always look correct even if made by Microsoft eBook Publisher 2013.
Layout failure on the web is a minor annoyance. Layout failure for a e-book I paid $20 for is completely unacceptable.
XHTML maybe? Some XML dialect? I can see these working if the toolchain (generators, interpreters, transformers) is tightly controlled or harshly forces compliance. Even still, I'd like my books to always look correct even if made by Microsoft eBook Publisher 2013.
Layout failure on the web is a minor annoyance. Layout failure for a e-book I paid $20 for is completely unacceptable.
Why you say html fails at typography?
This has already happened. The industry seems to be converging on EPUB, which is XHTML plus images in a zip file.
http://www.web-books.com/Publishing/epub.htm
http://www.web-books.com/Publishing/epub.htm
Hm, wonder why that book has no reviews...
And the "customers also bought" section isn't exactly relevant...
I'm very disappointed but as a last resort decided to ask allmighty HN community if this is true.
If so, I am astonished, frankly... Books aren't MP3s, I actually do want many most of them to be around forever. So can I transform Amazon books into PDFs? Or maybe into some other standard ebook format? (I have never owned an ebook before).
Also, maybe there are other big book stores that sell DRM-free books? (although I'd prefer to hack Amazon's - it's just too damn convenient)
Imagine buying a book for $6,400 and loosing it only because your Kindle breaks and Amazon decides to ditch the product a year later.
BTW yes, $6,400 Kindle book exists:
http://www.amazon.com/Selected-Nuclear-Materials-Engineering-ebook/dp/B001QTVXAK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=digital-text&qid=1240809725&sr=1-1