Paul Graham convinced me to drop out of school / quit my job [Vote up if true]
61 comments
Here's another naysayer on Paul Graham and the YC experience, in a bit more serious tone: http://www.raydeck.com/2006/10/paul-graham-is-hurting-the-children/
Humorous article, but serious point.
YC, like it or not, is pre-disposed to accepting certain types of founders: under 30, doing web applications, etc.
But the opinion of YC (or any other angel/VC) is not the last word on whether or not your venture succeeds.
There was another VC firm who posted a page on their web site listing the deals they rejected -- it included some huge successes, like Google -- can you imagine a VC admitting they turned down Google?
But that's the right attitude to have; and more entrepreneurs should think that way, too.
You will make mistakes, have false starts, hear a lot of "no"s from potential clients, etc. but it's all part of the process.
YC, like it or not, is pre-disposed to accepting certain types of founders: under 30, doing web applications, etc.
But the opinion of YC (or any other angel/VC) is not the last word on whether or not your venture succeeds.
There was another VC firm who posted a page on their web site listing the deals they rejected -- it included some huge successes, like Google -- can you imagine a VC admitting they turned down Google?
But that's the right attitude to have; and more entrepreneurs should think that way, too.
You will make mistakes, have false starts, hear a lot of "no"s from potential clients, etc. but it's all part of the process.
It's all fake except for the part where you say "Cobol and Fortran are useless." That, of course, is real.
This just freaks me out. I can't wait for this one to slide down the frontpage...
Paul, on Saturday, you discussed YC's 100% satisfaction rating from the founders you've sponsored. I can't imagine that's true for all (non-YC) startups, but I bet it's still extremely high. I hope you do become more comfortable with this, because there are a bunch of us that are living much more inspired lives, and trace part of that inspiration back to you. I'd hate to see you shy away from this because you're nervous about the outcome.
(Fortunately, I don't see any signs that you're actually too concerned. "Why to Not Not Start a Startup" couldn't have come from someone who's wavering!)
(Fortunately, I don't see any signs that you're actually too concerned. "Why to Not Not Start a Startup" couldn't have come from someone who's wavering!)
Wait until you get groupies camping outside your house, just to get glimpse of you. You could be the next David Koresh or Jim Jones.
This thread started as a poll, and ended as a revolution.
When you open Pandora's box, you get everything, both the bad (greed, vanity, slander, envy, pining, etc.) and the good (hope and progress).
BTW, I'm seeing a weird bug in Safari. Every time I reply or just click an up-arrow, I get an error saying "does nto exist". Then I go back, and see that my comment was posted and my up-vote was counted. What gives?
Alex, polls are lame on Reddit. They're even lamer here since there's no down arrow. Please use Pollground or something similar.
I'm going to add explicit support for polls. As soon as I get done reading hundreds of YC applications :(
Haha, well at least you fixed the 'not enough applications problem'! I would have submitted but I can't move this summer, although I think just getting feedback from yCombinator would be worth it to me. To bad time is your most precious commodity.
is there any way you could filter applications before reading them?
We do, in a sense: some people who apply we already know, because people we've funded recommended them. If you can impress the founders of a YC startup, that counts for a lot.
This site was designed partly as an additional filter. It works too. When I met danielha I knew his name because he was #1 on News.YC.
This site was designed partly as an additional filter. It works too. When I met danielha I knew his name because he was #1 on News.YC.
Of course, the best way to counter this is to go around downvoting Alex's comments that aren't particularly interesting or insightful. I wouldn't normally do something like this, but in order to make up for 74 (!) upvotes, it might be necessary.
Well actually the point was to try to start an interesting discussion and get people sharing stories, but I see your point.
He could also use a comment, and then it wouldn't be quite as lame.
You may already know this, but unlike reddit, comment scores here affect karma.
One decent approach is to create two comments with instructions to vote one up and the other down, so you stay karma-neutral. So you need a total of 1+2n comments for a poll with n options. Like so:
Do you think this is a good idea?
(Vote this like you would an ordinary comment)
Do you think this is a good idea?
(Vote this like you would an ordinary comment)
Vote this up for no.
Vote this up for yes.
Sigh. The sum of the scores on my four comments is now 6 and yesterday it was 3 (should always be 4). Apparently this is a bad idea.
Another approach is to let PG take care of it and get back to working on something that matters, whatever that may be;-)
Vote this down for no.
Vote this down for yes.
I do have to agree with dfranke.
While I certainly understand the concept, and I agree it's fun to get a gauge of people's reactions, I think you'll learn more reading the comments than you would with any simple poll..
There's also just that things like that are never so simple- I'm sure that pg has been one of many influences on people. I doubt very many people would go through their life, happily working at their job, read an essay, and drop everything ;)
While pg is persuasive, I would like to think (hope) that anything he writes is one factor among many.
(And again, Please- No polls like this. )
While I certainly understand the concept, and I agree it's fun to get a gauge of people's reactions, I think you'll learn more reading the comments than you would with any simple poll..
There's also just that things like that are never so simple- I'm sure that pg has been one of many influences on people. I doubt very many people would go through their life, happily working at their job, read an essay, and drop everything ;)
While pg is persuasive, I would like to think (hope) that anything he writes is one factor among many.
(And again, Please- No polls like this. )
I agree. The people that would be most affected by a pg essay are those that already aren't happy with their job (or potential job).
I was in love with Electrical Engineering. But reading Paul's essays upset me because it was so true: After four years of banging my head on the books, I would be expected to get a job in a cubicle for the rest of my life. While designing circuits and solving mathematical equations is quite orgasmic, it has its down sides too.
Inspired by Joel Spolsky and Paul Graham, I decided to leave University to develop a microISV product. I realized that selling microISV products is fun, but not very scalable...and it almost felt like doing a job. That's when I decided to tackle something big; a social network for geeks.
I would like to some day go back to University and study Neurology or Mathematics. But for now, pursuing my startup is much more enjoyable. Thanks Paul, Joel!
Inspired by Joel Spolsky and Paul Graham, I decided to leave University to develop a microISV product. I realized that selling microISV products is fun, but not very scalable...and it almost felt like doing a job. That's when I decided to tackle something big; a social network for geeks.
I would like to some day go back to University and study Neurology or Mathematics. But for now, pursuing my startup is much more enjoyable. Thanks Paul, Joel!
Not everything, though, is as blissful as it sounds. There are times when I wish I had taken the beating and went along with the standard template. I haven't told my parents that I have left university to pursue the startup dream...it wouldn't be wise to tell them unless they felt the opportunity cost of pursuing a startup is greater than getting a job. So every other day, they believe I leave off to study at my University when really I just go sit in the library and code Shuzak (our startup) :p This way, they will be really happy if I got accepted into YC but not disappointed if I didn't.
The consequence of having left University is that I am now super determined to make this successful; I have burned the ships behind me...so if our startup drowns, so will we.
The consequence of having left University is that I am now super determined to make this successful; I have burned the ships behind me...so if our startup drowns, so will we.
No offense, but if your parents are paying a dime for your schooling, you should probably tell them you aren't going.
Of course, my parents aren't paying. In fact, the only reason I wish to be mildly rich is so that I may buy my dad a long vacation away from his job.
You are worse than I am:)
My parents pestered me every weekend about my GPA until past few months. Slowly they have come to terms with the idea that I don't care much about school - and that my GPA probably sucks.
My parents pestered me every weekend about my GPA until past few months. Slowly they have come to terms with the idea that I don't care much about school - and that my GPA probably sucks.
lol, thanks zaid...I take it that wasn't a compliment? I learned quite a lot of lab work simply from building a solar car ( http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~hec/pictures.html ) as a side project. So , in University, I was able to maintain an okayish GPA because I managed to do good in labs.
It helps to get out of the closet to tell your family and friends. Their support helps a lot plus there's no turning back once you've tld those around you. If you don't tell anyone it's easy to go back to school or work when things get tough and no one will be none the wiser.
Hate to burst your bubble but it's been done already...
...sodahead.com
While I've been dreaming of dropping out of college before I even entered it, I have to admit much of my ideas have come directly from my college experience. If I dropped out, sat at the apartment trying to think of the next big idea I doubt I would have too many.
I do think the case to drop out becomes much stronger once you have an idea launched and showing potential.
I do think the case to drop out becomes much stronger once you have an idea launched and showing potential.
I quit my job and went to grad school because of Paul Graham. At the first Startup School (Cambridge), Paul's speech casually mentioned that grad school was a good way to meet co-founders. I wasn't specifically looking for co-founders (although like he predicted, I found some here) but decided that it was the right time to get a master's. In the next nine months, I quit my job, moved to Silicon Valley and started full-time grad school in CS. So far it's been one of the best decisions of my life. Thanks, Paul!
May I ask what grad school you attend? Why has it been one of the best decisions? People? Projects?
Well, I'm at Stanford, which is a good part of why it's been so great. Before Startup School, I hadn't had the balls to apply to particulary competitive schools. (I was previously thinking of getting a master's in IT management from a local school. It's a good program if I wanted to be a contractor, but not when I really wanted to be in the software industry.)
Stanford is in the heart of Silicon Valley, which is a big part of why this has been so great. There are an unusual number of opportunities related to tech business because of that. The other schools in this area, like Santa Clara U. and San Jose State, also have great access to the tech industry. And even if I wasn't in school, it would have been wise just to move to this area.
At Stanford, I've also met a lot of smart and motivated people, both professors and students. I'm learning a TON in my classes, honestly they're far more interesting and useful than I would have guessed. I stumbled upon co-founders for a startup, and I've gotten the opportunity to TA for a great professor. It's all been a ton of work, and I'm honestly kinda burnt out, but nonetheless I'm really glad I'm here.
Stanford is in the heart of Silicon Valley, which is a big part of why this has been so great. There are an unusual number of opportunities related to tech business because of that. The other schools in this area, like Santa Clara U. and San Jose State, also have great access to the tech industry. And even if I wasn't in school, it would have been wise just to move to this area.
At Stanford, I've also met a lot of smart and motivated people, both professors and students. I'm learning a TON in my classes, honestly they're far more interesting and useful than I would have guessed. I stumbled upon co-founders for a startup, and I've gotten the opportunity to TA for a great professor. It's all been a ton of work, and I'm honestly kinda burnt out, but nonetheless I'm really glad I'm here.
In general although creativity and school dropouts might have a non-linear correlation, it is wrong to say that formal education limits creativity and vice versa for that matter. Do you think that Google PageRank would have come from a ragamuffin?
I can't say that I've quit my job, but Paul Graham does make some interesting points.
The question that is stuck in my head is "what should I do if I have an idea for a Web service, but have no technical 'know-how?'" Is it worth approaching YCombinator?
The question that is stuck in my head is "what should I do if I have an idea for a Web service, but have no technical 'know-how?'" Is it worth approaching YCombinator?
Hello. I am Aur Saraf.
Simply put, no.
Start ups are about work, not ideas. Ideas flow freely with some people (like me) that just have about one idea per day worth implementation.
The skill to bring a product to life is the critical part.
Still, since you shouldn't drop the idea of starting a start up, you should either find someone with the technical know how (track down my email and email me for help in that) or go for an idea where you can contribute 100%.
Just my opinion, of course, though I highly doubt anyone would disagree (yes, this is a challenge).
Aur Saraf
Simply put, no.
Start ups are about work, not ideas. Ideas flow freely with some people (like me) that just have about one idea per day worth implementation.
The skill to bring a product to life is the critical part.
Still, since you shouldn't drop the idea of starting a start up, you should either find someone with the technical know how (track down my email and email me for help in that) or go for an idea where you can contribute 100%.
Just my opinion, of course, though I highly doubt anyone would disagree (yes, this is a challenge).
Aur Saraf
no technical know how when building a web company is going to be a problem.
But I'm building a web startup, and I'm not an engineer/developer. I do know a lot about the web and product development so my eyes don't roll back when the conversation turns to apache logs, SSL stamps, and server side scripts.
I would suggest documenting your concept in a simple word doc, starting with the primary result, then spell it out step by step.
After you have the core concept in place, talk to web developers about the project, if the idea is hot, and they have the right skills you could be on your way to success.
But I'm building a web startup, and I'm not an engineer/developer. I do know a lot about the web and product development so my eyes don't roll back when the conversation turns to apache logs, SSL stamps, and server side scripts.
I would suggest documenting your concept in a simple word doc, starting with the primary result, then spell it out step by step.
After you have the core concept in place, talk to web developers about the project, if the idea is hot, and they have the right skills you could be on your way to success.
I agree.
I remember reading a chapter of Hackers & Painters in which PG states that he was able to implement new features so quickly, that it seemed to his competitors as though he possessed some kind of secret weapon. Instead, he was simply using Lisp, a powerful and highly abstract language.
What he doesn't explicitly mention is that he is an expert at Lisp, having published two books on the language -- not to mention having a PhD from Harvard in Computer Science, where he probably became an expert using the language (although, admittedly, I have never been able to track down PGs graduate research work...).
This is what gave ViaWeb their competitive edge in the section of the e-commerce market and led to their success. As a startup, you're unlikely to succeed. You'll want all the advantages you can possibly attain.
I remember reading a chapter of Hackers & Painters in which PG states that he was able to implement new features so quickly, that it seemed to his competitors as though he possessed some kind of secret weapon. Instead, he was simply using Lisp, a powerful and highly abstract language.
What he doesn't explicitly mention is that he is an expert at Lisp, having published two books on the language -- not to mention having a PhD from Harvard in Computer Science, where he probably became an expert using the language (although, admittedly, I have never been able to track down PGs graduate research work...).
This is what gave ViaWeb their competitive edge in the section of the e-commerce market and led to their success. As a startup, you're unlikely to succeed. You'll want all the advantages you can possibly attain.
Simply put, no.
Unless he's rich and hard working. Then he is of some use.
Unless he's rich and hard working. Then he is of some use.
Aur, thank you for your insight. Currently I would say I fall more into a marketing/sales/negotiation "box," which I believe is an important aspect for start-ups.
If I were to begin a start-up it would be as a co-founder. Yes, I would need to find someone with the technical know how - fortunately I'm living with a software engineer. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure he is happy with his job...but maybe I can convince him to give me 20% of his time if I develop my plan further.
Again, I appreciate your response.
Best wishes,
Clinton
If I were to begin a start-up it would be as a co-founder. Yes, I would need to find someone with the technical know how - fortunately I'm living with a software engineer. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure he is happy with his job...but maybe I can convince him to give me 20% of his time if I develop my plan further.
Again, I appreciate your response.
Best wishes,
Clinton
I have rather the opposite problem. I'm like a machine when I get a decent idea (wrt implementing it etc), but I can't seem to find one that makes other people care about it.
I haven't quit my job, but I'm going to leave it as soon as I reasonably can. It's really hard to say whether Paul Graham had anything to do with it. I'd read inspirational stuff from Kathy Sierra (Creating Passionate Users) and Pamela Slim (Escape from Cubicle Nation) first, which I think is where I started getting the idea to start my own company.
Hi,
Is there anybody from India(preferably from HYD) or even US who can work with me as a co founder ?
I am from India and unfortunately we don't have a PG/YC equivalent here, but still startupping from India has got its own advantages.
I got the idea , am a software engineer and manage most of the things right.
Reply back if sounds good.
-Saurabh
-Saurabh
Well if one has heard of this "I was born Intelligent but Education made me Dumb" ... then PG is right in advising "dropping out of school" :D
So i agree with the first part...
No idea about quitting the job part as i dont have a job :D
Yep - if I end up homeless I am coming to his house to beg :P
If Paul Graham's conviction comes with seed funding, I'll do that.
Count me in!
dot dot dot
There are still a few details left to smooth, but I think I am very close to be able to apply to YC. I still have no idea of what my startup would do, but PG said this was not important...
Could there be something I misunderstood in PG talks ?
PS: This is all fake, of course, and ment to be humorous. There is only one thing that matters and PG was very clear on this. It is to come up with something that people will want and will be ready to pay for in some way (accept to view ads for instance). Wether you'r old, married & dad, have no technical skills in CS, etc. won't stop you from succeeding if you found a gold vein. It will just be a little bit more difficult to start, that's all... and maybe YC is not the VC to go for. ;-)