Ask HN: How to get recruited at a US based startup?
I am a python developer from India and have applied to many startups in Silicon valley and California and get rejected every time even though they like my profile due to their inability to sponsor my work visa. Where can I find the startups who offer work visa sponsorship?
59 comments
Without a lot more details, it's impossible to say anything specific. At the very least, I don't think anyone here could tell you if visa is really the reason you were rejected by the startup - it could just be the most convenient reason that the startups gave you.
It's very very hard for startup to sponsor you a work visa, whether they want to or not. Every year, the new window for applying the working visa (H1B) starts at April 1st, last year it took one week to fill out 210% quota of the visa for the whole year (translation: even if you did apply, you have less than 40% of getting the visa). And the visa won't take effect until October of the same year. It means that for a company, they have to wait for you at least 6 months before you can work (not counting any other months of interviewing and otherwise). For that reasons, most companies that can sponsor visa only do so for people who can already work using another visa, while waiting for the H1B visa. Not to mention the chance of not getting the visa in the first place.
That said, do you want to work for a startup, or just come to work in the US? If it's the latter, you might have better chance with finding a subsidiary of a US company in India, and hope that you can negotiate/ get them to send you to the US (you would be working for them first in India, obviously). I've known friends who came to the US this way. But beware of what you're getting into, many HN users here will gladly tell you that the H1B visa is evil, or might I say, literally Hitler.
It's very very hard for startup to sponsor you a work visa, whether they want to or not. Every year, the new window for applying the working visa (H1B) starts at April 1st, last year it took one week to fill out 210% quota of the visa for the whole year (translation: even if you did apply, you have less than 40% of getting the visa). And the visa won't take effect until October of the same year. It means that for a company, they have to wait for you at least 6 months before you can work (not counting any other months of interviewing and otherwise). For that reasons, most companies that can sponsor visa only do so for people who can already work using another visa, while waiting for the H1B visa. Not to mention the chance of not getting the visa in the first place.
That said, do you want to work for a startup, or just come to work in the US? If it's the latter, you might have better chance with finding a subsidiary of a US company in India, and hope that you can negotiate/ get them to send you to the US (you would be working for them first in India, obviously). I've known friends who came to the US this way. But beware of what you're getting into, many HN users here will gladly tell you that the H1B visa is evil, or might I say, literally Hitler.
It's not just about coming to work in the US.
I want to work at a fast paced environment generally seen at a startup and I have previously worked for indian startups and they tend to exploit the developers(atleast thats what I have experienced), hence US.
Infact, I have earned more by freelancing for US based startups/companies on Odesk in a month than what I got after working for a startup for 6 months in India.
and btw what do you mean by 'H1B visa is evil'?
I don't know the situation in India, but there are a whole lot of horror stories of startups (and non-startup companies) in the US exploiting employees. Just because you earn more freelancing for US companies doesn't necessary mean coming working for startups in the US will give you higher living standard, Silicon Valley - and California on average - is ridiculously expensive to live in. Again, do your research, I'm not in a position to know your situation.
That actually ties to the part of "H1B is evil". I'd rather not bring up that discussion, just search on HN (in both stories and comments) for "indentured servants" and/ or "H1B" to see all the comments from both sides in the past.
Anyway, the general advice for young-ish (I assume you are) programmer wanting to work for startup is to find not early stage startups, but mid-size one (think of current Uber/ Lyft/ Wanelo, or Facebook 2006-2007 etc.). As you will learn more, have an easier life (not that the work is not as challenging as early stage startup, but early stage startup is quite ... insane in some aspects), and further more, you can already filter out the crappy companies.
Remember, most startups die in the first two years or so, and if us programmers can pick who doesn't... well, I think I have a better job for you :-)
That actually ties to the part of "H1B is evil". I'd rather not bring up that discussion, just search on HN (in both stories and comments) for "indentured servants" and/ or "H1B" to see all the comments from both sides in the past.
Anyway, the general advice for young-ish (I assume you are) programmer wanting to work for startup is to find not early stage startups, but mid-size one (think of current Uber/ Lyft/ Wanelo, or Facebook 2006-2007 etc.). As you will learn more, have an easier life (not that the work is not as challenging as early stage startup, but early stage startup is quite ... insane in some aspects), and further more, you can already filter out the crappy companies.
Remember, most startups die in the first two years or so, and if us programmers can pick who doesn't... well, I think I have a better job for you :-)
yes, mid-size startups are what I meant by working at US based startup. I dont want to risk coming to US to work for a startup who is at very early stage until and unless I believe in the idea and seem doable as a startup.
My company (startup within big co) just opened an office in APAC and we hired a remote-with-travel engineer. We ended up going with someone who is located in Singapore, but I interviewed people from Malaysia and India, it might be worth looking out for similar opportunities of companies expanding into asia.
Also, there's a growing startup scene in KL, which I'm sure is easier when it comes to getting a work visa.
Also, there's a growing startup scene in KL, which I'm sure is easier when it comes to getting a work visa.
Although I can agree to the fact that most "startups" (or better say, run-of-the-mill tech firms) here will see programming as just another manufacturing process and won't respect what a good programmer can bring to the table but there still are startups who are awesome and struggling to find good developers.
If you wish, you can contact me, email is in my profile.
If you wish, you can contact me, email is in my profile.
Do the same procedures apply for finding an internship in the US? I was hoping to find an internship in a startup for this summer after attending university in California (I'm French), but that seems pretty much compromised.
after attending university in California
That's the key. Look into the OPT visa and see if you qualify.
http://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/f-1-opt-optional-practic...
That's the key. Look into the OPT visa and see if you qualify.
http://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/f-1-opt-optional-practic...
Thanks a lot! I will look into that very soon, you might have saved me a headache!
You are in a tough position. Even if someone is willing to sponsor a visa, you are competing with everyone who doesn't need a visa. You cannot just be "as good" as the next guy - you need to be better, because it is more trouble to bring you on board. And if the job explicitly says they will sponsor a visa, you also need to be better than everyone else internationally.
This should not stop you from trying - but you need to focus on making yourself stand out from the crowd. They may like your profile, but if they like 45 other profiles, too, you need to tell them what makes you the one to choose.
If you are really the best guy for the job, they will figure out the visa issues. But if you are only 2nd best, they won't.
EDIT: I was also just thinking of how people I know who came from India made their move here. Most of them worked for one of the big Indian firms who outsource from the US. They would start working remotely in India, and then get a role that moved them to the US. Once they were here, they could get to know people, network, etc, and then find permanent US-based jobs through that network.
This should not stop you from trying - but you need to focus on making yourself stand out from the crowd. They may like your profile, but if they like 45 other profiles, too, you need to tell them what makes you the one to choose.
If you are really the best guy for the job, they will figure out the visa issues. But if you are only 2nd best, they won't.
EDIT: I was also just thinking of how people I know who came from India made their move here. Most of them worked for one of the big Indian firms who outsource from the US. They would start working remotely in India, and then get a role that moved them to the US. Once they were here, they could get to know people, network, etc, and then find permanent US-based jobs through that network.
I was in same shoes as yours around two years ago. I feel your pain. I asked similar question on HN then (1). My advice is apply at startups that explicitly invite international candidates, especially the ones that lists 'can sponsor visa' info in their job postings. Even if they are willing to offer a job, it's just very difficult to get a visa to US. I have interviewed with one or two from Valley, it always came down to visa.
If you don't find a great startup, try looking for one in India. Hard to filter through awful lot of crappy ones, but put some time. Talk to as many startups as possible, don't just interview, but go to the offices, see how they work and try to work for a week before you join. You will find something good. Be patient, I must have talked to at least 40 startups face to face, went to at least 10 offices. It's funny though, at last I found my job through monthly HN-hiring thread.
1-https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5462515
If you don't find a great startup, try looking for one in India. Hard to filter through awful lot of crappy ones, but put some time. Talk to as many startups as possible, don't just interview, but go to the offices, see how they work and try to work for a week before you join. You will find something good. Be patient, I must have talked to at least 40 startups face to face, went to at least 10 offices. It's funny though, at last I found my job through monthly HN-hiring thread.
1-https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5462515
I have few offers from some really good startups in India and thats why I am looking for options abroad.
How about taking the offer at one of the startups that potentially expand to the US in the future. Then you could go with that team to the US
The thing is I am already freelancing on Odesk and currently I am earning twice the money than what a startup can offer in India. On the same note, I dont want to work as a freelancer working from home anymore. So I am looking for a US based startup instead.
Recently, I was researching about moving back to India and continue working for my employer from there and get paid in USD. In theory, this should be possible. My employers might agree to this (they do it to other colleagues of mine in different countries). However, the taxation laws in India are not straight forward around this. You can explore to see if this is a legit option for you. If you have a solid profile as in open source contributions and you can pull off working remotely (definitely not easy), this is the most lucrative option for you. Trust me, living in USA is not what it used to be. The whole political climate with so many wars, government snooping, highly variant economy and things like Ferguson make it less attractive. If I were considering a move today, I'd definitely think 10 times. Plus the stress levels here are amazingly high. Everyone seems to be lost in their "careers". Of course there are positive aspects of living here. It's definitely a trade off like anywhere else. Good luck. I hope to bump into you someday and hear your story of sailing the boat ;).
Well I worked for a swedish company for 4 months remotely from India and dint find any trouble with the taxes. And I agree, working remotely for a US based company is the best that can happen. Earning in dollars and spending is local currency makes life alot easier.
Why don't you consider Germany? US is great in terms of taking technological inspirations but I wouldn't want to live there as that would mean working for the landlords. I've been to Berlin for a year and consider working for any company there (big or small) because the prices (rents, food, travel, entertainment) are low and the incomes (whether salary or hour based) are high and they pay satisfactorily to IT workers. They prefer more enterprise stuff though such as Java and SAP. And in some areas being fluent in German is a requirement. Still, it's worth it, they have more open and straightforward visa applications.
Second this. Moved to Germany over an year ago. Lot of companies looking for programmers. You can find some jobs here - http://berlinstartupjobs.com/ and the super simple visa process here - http://www.make-it-in-germany.com/
But in the end, the same question arises, where to look for such companies.
If you don't speak German it's gonna be hard : though they mostly all speak pretty good English (especially in the tech industry), their job boards are mostly all in German.
Someone here has already suggested that you enter the US through another country. For some reason, that comment is dead. However, you should be sure to spend some time considering that option and similar alternatives that will not put you at a Silicon Valley startup immediately but which will could put you at one eventually, or at a non-Silicon-Valley startup (maybe Berlin?) and if you're really lucky you might be able to find a US-based startup with an international office (possibly in India) that can get you the sort of visa where you transfer to the US office after working there a year. (Currently I'm doing something quite similar to this myself, except at the US offices of a company that has offices in London too. For non-EU/EEA residents the UK immigration regime is a little better than the US regime, but not that much, and worsening.)
The visa sponsorship regime in the US is ridiculous and extraordinarily risky (in the sense you must put in a lot of time and effort for a small chance of getting a visa). Not a lot of startups are able to put up with that. If I recall correctly, the H-1B in particular involves (a) posting a job requirement that you don't end up filling with an existing citizen/resident - a little game to appease the bureaucracy that's meant to ensure you're not TAKING OUR JOBS!!!11 (gag) (b) applying for a visa and paying $$$ at the right time of the year when they reset the annual quotas (c) waiting months for an answer.
:(
That said, if you don't take risks you don't get lucky.
The visa sponsorship regime in the US is ridiculous and extraordinarily risky (in the sense you must put in a lot of time and effort for a small chance of getting a visa). Not a lot of startups are able to put up with that. If I recall correctly, the H-1B in particular involves (a) posting a job requirement that you don't end up filling with an existing citizen/resident - a little game to appease the bureaucracy that's meant to ensure you're not TAKING OUR JOBS!!!11 (gag) (b) applying for a visa and paying $$$ at the right time of the year when they reset the annual quotas (c) waiting months for an answer.
:(
That said, if you don't take risks you don't get lucky.
Had anyone here getting in to the US through another country? As someone who might have to plan for some thing similar, I'd love to hear your stories.
Since this thread is pretty popular, i'll try to latch on to it.
I too am a developer from India, college student to be more precise. I'll get my degree in 2016. I want to move out of India to US or a country in Europe and am trying to find a way to do so.
As for my skills, i have done a ton of open source work and am proficient in popular languages like Python, PHP(?), Go, Clojure, etc. and some obscure languages as well.
I am not sure which field of the industry i want to specialize in right now but have done web, mobile, game-dev, desktop apps (linux & windows) and a bit of embedded stuff.
Whats the best way to get a job and move out of the country?
I too am a developer from India, college student to be more precise. I'll get my degree in 2016. I want to move out of India to US or a country in Europe and am trying to find a way to do so.
As for my skills, i have done a ton of open source work and am proficient in popular languages like Python, PHP(?), Go, Clojure, etc. and some obscure languages as well.
I am not sure which field of the industry i want to specialize in right now but have done web, mobile, game-dev, desktop apps (linux & windows) and a bit of embedded stuff.
Whats the best way to get a job and move out of the country?
Well, till you graduate, you should try working as a freelancer on Odesk/Elance to get some real work experience.
well i've done some work through odesk, 2 internships (one at a startup and another at a company with a billion dollar revenue)
Others might have scratched the surface on this, but based on my network's experience and my own, don't even try the startup route, it's not worth it. Outside the US, you'll either get
a) no sponsorship
b) non-competitive salaries
c) mentor roles
and that's being on the real top of your field.
I'd go for a bigger company which has
a) the resources
b) the legal expertise
c) the demand
Given you do Python, Dropbox comes to mind, but you can always Google or stackshare.io for targets.
Good luck.
Given you do Python, Dropbox comes to mind, but you can always Google or stackshare.io for targets.
Good luck.
From my experience, being present in a country is going to greatly increase your chances of being able to be hired there (even with the visa).
I would also give another vote for Berlin. I have lived here for the last year & it has a very low cost of living, yet still a strong tech/startup focus.
Are you able to travel to Berlin for 1 or 2 months & find a job? As mentioned, the visa process is much easier than the US & to be honest, your salary is going to go a lot further in Europe than in Silicon Valley.
I would also give another vote for Berlin. I have lived here for the last year & it has a very low cost of living, yet still a strong tech/startup focus.
Are you able to travel to Berlin for 1 or 2 months & find a job? As mentioned, the visa process is much easier than the US & to be honest, your salary is going to go a lot further in Europe than in Silicon Valley.
My tip:Get a job at a company in Ireland that has US headquarters(they have great immigration laws when it comes to qualified workers),you'll be able to transfer to the US sooner or later.Will it increase your life quality? Well I don't think so.
Send me an example of your Python work.
I have visas available for Python devs from India or Eastern Europe.
In depth knowledge of systems programming and distributed computing, and familiarity with cloud service provider APIs and automation frameworks (e.g. Ansible/Chef) a plus.
I have visas available for Python devs from India or Eastern Europe.
In depth knowledge of systems programming and distributed computing, and familiarity with cloud service provider APIs and automation frameworks (e.g. Ansible/Chef) a plus.
>I have visas available for Python devs from India or Eastern Europe.
What do you mean by that? Under H-1B one has job openings; you apply for the visa when you decide to hire an immigrant.
Also, it sounds like you're saying there are job positions at your company that are open only to people of particular national origins, or ethnic backgrounds. Isn't that illegal under the 1964 Civil Rights Act?
What do you mean by that? Under H-1B one has job openings; you apply for the visa when you decide to hire an immigrant.
Also, it sounds like you're saying there are job positions at your company that are open only to people of particular national origins, or ethnic backgrounds. Isn't that illegal under the 1964 Civil Rights Act?
Even more, "having visas available" implies that they are at his disposition, which is extremely unlikely.
That's not how H-1B works in practice. You find a candidate, make a fake job offering that matches only that candidate, wait for that to go unfilled for a certain period of time (oh noes!!), and then proceed.
That said, parent poster is plenty sketchy :)
That said, parent poster is plenty sketchy :)
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It's only illegal if there's evidence.
ok, will shoot you an email as soon as possible.
I did come this website http://tyba.com/ which has listing of jobs and internships worldwide but it hasn't proved to be useful yet.
Try bigger companies. Early and mid stage startups won't have the resources for all the paperwork.
But bigger companies lacking talent have no problem with it.
But bigger companies lacking talent have no problem with it.
Not a startup but have you considered Google? They have a whole legal team dedicated to this kind of stuff, you'd have a lot more luck there.
I think it's an understatement to say that the competition to get into Google is high.
Yes, all the big corporates have that where they take all the pain of legal stuff but I wish to work at a startup and most of the startups dont have a legal team. So was just wondering where to look for such startups.
Can you work in the US as a freelancer without the H1B visa?
No, you can not work IN the US as a freelancer without a visa. If a company tries this with you, avoid at all costs, since it's illegal and could land you in quite a bit of trouble. If you ever get deported from the US for immigration violations, you're banned from entering the US again. Forever.
You can work outside of the US for a US based company, though.
You can work outside of the US for a US based company, though.
Yes, absolutely. The companies pay you via either one of the freelancing sites or direct bank transfer(paypal isn't working in India right now) and you pay your taxes in India.
I'm pretty sure that's directly at odds with what the State Department has to say about things. If you care about the legality of what you're doing, use extreme caution here and consider getting real legal advice.
How is a US based company hiring someone via odesk and paying him via odesk illegal?
Working in the U.S., even on odesk, without a proper visa is illegal.
As an indian, living in India and working on Odesk is not illegal. I don't need a visa or anything to work via Odesk.
Except the question was not about living in India, it was about living in the United States.
If you live in the United States and you say you are working from India, you are committing fraud AND violating immigration laws.
If you live in the United States and you say you are working from the United States, you are just violating immigration laws.
Its about where you are physically located and as the original comment I replied to was referring to being physically located in the U.S., it would be illegal.
If you live in the United States and you say you are working from India, you are committing fraud AND violating immigration laws.
If you live in the United States and you say you are working from the United States, you are just violating immigration laws.
Its about where you are physically located and as the original comment I replied to was referring to being physically located in the U.S., it would be illegal.
This is completely illegal.
Damn! I also want to work in Silicon valley...
But I don't write python, I write C++.
There are plenty of high-level C++ engineer jobs in the US. Google, for instance, will make a healthy offer to an engineer who is a real C++ expert. Google is famous for their Python advocacy, but a lot of their infrastructure is still built with C++.
>built with C++
And Java, and probably, more recently, some in Go. [1]
[1] This is anecdata :), but I don't think a majority of their work is in Python, though they do have some, and I also read the recent threads about their hiring Python devs.
More like C++ and Java (and JavaScript for the front-end), and nowadays some Go, as I said. This is just based on reading about them on various sites, though, I don't have internal info, so could be wrong.
And Java, and probably, more recently, some in Go. [1]
[1] This is anecdata :), but I don't think a majority of their work is in Python, though they do have some, and I also read the recent threads about their hiring Python devs.
More like C++ and Java (and JavaScript for the front-end), and nowadays some Go, as I said. This is just based on reading about them on various sites, though, I don't have internal info, so could be wrong.
Damn! I also want to work in Silicon valley...
But I don't write python, I write C++.
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