The Umbrella Reinvented(kazbrella.com)
kazbrella.com
The Umbrella Reinvented
http://www.kazbrella.com/
87 comments
Agreed. I initially felt the website was nice enough but it seems to be putting off some people.
The video for their kickstarter campaign was also very interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmvoU9cRzn4
According to their kickstarter page they are funded and starting manufacturing soon.
The video for their kickstarter campaign was also very interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmvoU9cRzn4
According to their kickstarter page they are funded and starting manufacturing soon.
Looks like a Japanese design firm tried something similar back in 2013 called the unbrella, still shipping for about $90 (http://h-concept.jp/fs/hshop/c/unbrella).
English press story at http://www.damngeeky.com/2013/12/11/16246/unbrella-solves-th...
Minor marketing fail that while the Kazbrella solves the 'brush against other people's pants' problem, it doesn't solve the 'drip water on the floor problem', yet the promotional video implies it will.
English press story at http://www.damngeeky.com/2013/12/11/16246/unbrella-solves-th...
Minor marketing fail that while the Kazbrella solves the 'brush against other people's pants' problem, it doesn't solve the 'drip water on the floor problem', yet the promotional video implies it will.
For what it's worth, I preferred watching the Japanese teaser video[0] much more than Kazbrella's video[1]. It was clear and honest, while Kazbrella's video feels like an infomercial with poor acting.
[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phdeprKdVwU [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BLYLrdOXe8
[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phdeprKdVwU [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BLYLrdOXe8
yeah, i agree that the Kazbrella is too showing off. and the mechanism is not that much innovative.
the normal double fold umbrella (not sure how it is called) has similar mechanism, the difference is that it double folds which makes the folded umbrella smaller.
https://www.google.it/search?q=double+fold+umbrella&source=l...
the normal double fold umbrella (not sure how it is called) has similar mechanism, the difference is that it double folds which makes the folded umbrella smaller.
https://www.google.it/search?q=double+fold+umbrella&source=l...
> it doesn't solve the 'drip water on the floor problem', yet the promotional video implies it will
What do you mean? From the video it seems pretty clear that it does. With a regular umbrella there's no way to carry it without dripping water; with this one, the water's on the inside, so you can carry it without dripping.
What do you mean? From the video it seems pretty clear that it does. With a regular umbrella there's no way to carry it without dripping water; with this one, the water's on the inside, so you can carry it without dripping.
Uh, doesn't the water just drip from the inside then?
You can hold it "brim side up" while walking to contain the water. There's no way to do that with a regular umbrella.
Of course you still need to dry it out somehow, e.g. let it drip into a bucket; that part of the video is probably misleading.
Of course you still need to dry it out somehow, e.g. let it drip into a bucket; that part of the video is probably misleading.
I guess he must have missed this prior art whilst submitting his patent application ...
It appears to trap the water inside and indeed avoid dripping it on the floor; the video appears to show this in action several times.
What makes you think the video is faking it?
What makes you think the video is faking it?
I suppose you could hang it over a plant.
From the comments there seems to be negative sentiment towards this product. I believe it is a great endeavor and I would have funded the prototype and development entirely. The reason is not so much that it could be much more efficient than the current one, but that someone thinks he can improve something that most people have thought to be the solution for so many years. It takes guts, and observation to ask "is this the best we can do?"
We could also try using square wheels again... just to make sure we didn't miss anything the first invention-cycle.
There's a reason the umbrella has stayed practically the same all these years...
There's a reason the umbrella has stayed practically the same all these years...
One thing that has changed between earlier umbrella designs and now is that high-precision manufacturing is now cheaper.
My main problem with this umbrella design is just that it's longer than I like. I prefer compact umbrellas.
My main problem with this umbrella design is just that it's longer than I like. I prefer compact umbrellas.
I've been directing creative brainstorms for many years, and reconsidering things we take for granted, like square wheels, is exactly what we do to trigger new ideas and solutions to problems.
From the page:
"KAZbrella is a symbol of inventive thinking. A design unchanged for 3000 years is turned inside out. "
Uh, no, that is factually incorrect!
There are one-hinge umbrellas which are the traditional kind. There are three-hinge umbrellas which are the highly compact kind. And now they've "invented" a two-hinge umbrella. Color me unimpressed.
https://www.google.com/search?q=three+hinge+umbrella
I don't know exactly when the three hinge compact umbrella was invented, but they have existed for as long as I can remember. So that puts them at least 20-30 years old. And the technology isn't terribly complicated, though it does rely on fairly small diameter tubes with very thin walls. It wouldn't surprise me too much to learn that three hinge umbrellas were 100 years old or more.
So while they may have been the first people to make a two-hinge umbrella they were certainly not the first to improve on the single hinge design.
"KAZbrella is a symbol of inventive thinking. A design unchanged for 3000 years is turned inside out. "
Uh, no, that is factually incorrect!
There are one-hinge umbrellas which are the traditional kind. There are three-hinge umbrellas which are the highly compact kind. And now they've "invented" a two-hinge umbrella. Color me unimpressed.
https://www.google.com/search?q=three+hinge+umbrella
I don't know exactly when the three hinge compact umbrella was invented, but they have existed for as long as I can remember. So that puts them at least 20-30 years old. And the technology isn't terribly complicated, though it does rely on fairly small diameter tubes with very thin walls. It wouldn't surprise me too much to learn that three hinge umbrellas were 100 years old or more.
So while they may have been the first people to make a two-hinge umbrella they were certainly not the first to improve on the single hinge design.
Great, now someone please invent an umbrella that works in and doesn't destroy itself in a moderate wind.
There's a couple of great umbrella options out there for heavy winds. I like the EuroSCHRIM Light Trek [1] for its price and strength - but if you're really blowing through umbrellas and want something backed by a great warranty it's hard to beat the Davek Solo [2].
[1]: http://www.euroschirm.com/schirm/LightTrek/index.cgi?sprache... [2]: davekny.com/products/the-davek-solo-2
[1]: http://www.euroschirm.com/schirm/LightTrek/index.cgi?sprache... [2]: davekny.com/products/the-davek-solo-2
I just today had my Blunt umbrella[1] delivered, haven't had a chance to use it yet but it's certainly extremely sturdy and claims it'll withstand strong winds and i'm inclined to believe the claims after playing with it.
[1] https://www.bluntumbrellas.com
[1] https://www.bluntumbrellas.com
"World first traceable Umbrella"
No comment.
No comment.
I live in Wellington, NZ - a place famous for being windy as hell - and the only umbrellas that survive here are Blunt umbrellas: https://www.bluntumbrellas.com
It's called a raincoat.
According to the video, this one solves that problem.
According to the FAQ it will still break under strong wind.
According to the FAQ, it will not break like others, because it was actually designed to fold that way. So yes, it will fold in a strong wind, but will not break and you can open it again easily.
I was not really clear I see now, when I said "break" I meant as in "break shape". But yes you're right.
This annoys me so much I tracked down and purposefully bought the strongest looking one I could find (made with titanium).
Destroyed itself in a gust of wind the first time I tried to use it.
Sigh.
Destroyed itself in a gust of wind the first time I tried to use it.
Sigh.
https://www.senz.com/en
I own a couple of them, they work amazingly well. You can even use them on a bike with heavy wind.
I own a couple of them, they work amazingly well. You can even use them on a bike with heavy wind.
Neat. Clicked around, found a video of testing to 133 km/h at the bottom of this page: https://www.senz.com/en/senz6/
... a.k.a. around 82 mph!
I can second this recommendation. One thing to note: The small folding version is less resilient than the larger model. A fine tradeoff, given its size.
These look really great, thanks for the recommendation!
Water is trapped inside so basically this umbrella is a cup. All the water spread on its surface will be at the bottom of it after half an hour on a bus / metro train. Be careful when you get out and open it. You better turn it upside down and empty it.
Apart from that, it seems to be more convenient to open and close in a crowded environment (metro stairs in rush hour) than the traditional design.
Apart from that, it seems to be more convenient to open and close in a crowded environment (metro stairs in rush hour) than the traditional design.
I also see a slight health risk. Imagine a closed up, wet umbrella that is left in the umbrella storage bucket, and then it was forgotten to be opened to be dried. Mould and other fungus could grow, and spoiled the umbrella.
It depends on whether the fabric is coated. Normal umbrella fabric is not, so it will dry even when collapsed--albeit more slowly than if open.
> Water is trapped inside so basically this umbrella is a cup.
How? It looks like the opening is opposite the handle, so assuming people are holding their umbrellas by the handle, any water on the umbrella would just gradually slide to the ground, just as if the umbrella were the normal sort.
How? It looks like the opening is opposite the handle, so assuming people are holding their umbrellas by the handle, any water on the umbrella would just gradually slide to the ground, just as if the umbrella were the normal sort.
No. When you carry it the "cup" is upside down and it won't collect water.
That seems like the natural way to carry it, but if you do this then you don't solve the "I'm dripping water everywhere" issue (the video implies this design addresses this).
So you can choose: either carry it the traditional way (hold the handle, with the umbrella pointed at the ground) which allows the "cup" pour all the water down onto the floor, or hold it "upside down" so the "cup" doesn't spill out.
So you can choose: either carry it the traditional way (hold the handle, with the umbrella pointed at the ground) which allows the "cup" pour all the water down onto the floor, or hold it "upside down" so the "cup" doesn't spill out.
Ok, I didn't realize that. Thanks.
It's nice that people are still trying to make improvements on old solutions to old problems, but I don't think I'll be buying this one.
I already solved my problems with umbrellas by buying a wide-brimmed hat instead. It reduced my needs for both sunglasses and umbrellas, and does not need to be stowed or carried.
In any case, my greatest problem with traditional umbrella design is inversion due to wind, not trying to enter a vehicle with it or the fact that it gets wet. Those problems have all been solved (separately) anyway. Inversion is mitigated by venting the canopy. Entering a vehicle is improved by one-handed, spring-assisted collapse levers in the handle. Its inherent wetness can be mitigated by hydrophobic fabric as the canopy. If the water does not stick, the dripping issue is solved by one shake before entering the dry space.
None of these problems seem to be helped much by making the canopy collapse in the opposite direction. I remain concerned that an inversion due to wind might not just be inconvenient, but that it will also damage the structure of this new product, or even force it to collapse instead of just invert its canopy.
I already solved my problems with umbrellas by buying a wide-brimmed hat instead. It reduced my needs for both sunglasses and umbrellas, and does not need to be stowed or carried.
In any case, my greatest problem with traditional umbrella design is inversion due to wind, not trying to enter a vehicle with it or the fact that it gets wet. Those problems have all been solved (separately) anyway. Inversion is mitigated by venting the canopy. Entering a vehicle is improved by one-handed, spring-assisted collapse levers in the handle. Its inherent wetness can be mitigated by hydrophobic fabric as the canopy. If the water does not stick, the dripping issue is solved by one shake before entering the dry space.
None of these problems seem to be helped much by making the canopy collapse in the opposite direction. I remain concerned that an inversion due to wind might not just be inconvenient, but that it will also damage the structure of this new product, or even force it to collapse instead of just invert its canopy.
My problem with the umbrella is that it is symmetric. If I hold it with my left hand, my right part becomes exposed, and vice versa. If I try to protect my backpack from getting wet, my front side get wet.
You really, really, need to add some more links to the bottom of your home page content.
I scrolled up and down multiple times looking for something along the lines of 'find out more'.
When I refound the learn more button, it just scrolled me down.
I was about to leave the site, and just noticed the tiny navigation in the upper right.
If your sell is Innovation, you need to prove it.
I scrolled up and down multiple times looking for something along the lines of 'find out more'.
When I refound the learn more button, it just scrolled me down.
I was about to leave the site, and just noticed the tiny navigation in the upper right.
If your sell is Innovation, you need to prove it.
When there's any hint of rain, I carry (and wear, if needed), a lightweight raincoat made from a breathable fabric. This means that when I am not wearing it I can fold it over my arm and not have to battle through a busy street, or on public transport with a stick-like thing.
Me, too. I really don't like umbrellas and wonder why people don't use rain jackets more often. I enjoy the feeling of rain falling on me and I get to stay completely dry. Umbrellas only can do so much, especially if you're carrying things or have a large backpack (which contains a folded up cover for itself). Rain with wind, forget it.
But then how do you deflect bullets?
http://goo.gl/Sd4aRX
http://goo.gl/Sd4aRX
Seems like you trade one problem for maybe a slightly lesser one... if the inside is wet, you still have to open it in the rain and thusly getting the dry side wet (but maybe not as wet).
[deleted]
Here is another design. The "air umbrella": [1]
[1] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1243275397/air-umbrella
[1] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1243275397/air-umbrella
I've looked up more information about this project. It's interesting for its novelty and for its ambition to bring the tech closer to mundane life, but currently "the minds behind the project say there will be three different options for the air umbrella [...] the difference between them is the length and battery life which at maximum is thirty minutes"¹ - that's not much to make it practical for everyone, not to mention its (battery) weight.
¹ https://youtu.be/K6eyND08tu0?t=48
¹ https://youtu.be/K6eyND08tu0?t=48
Thirty minutes would be perfect for my daily 20 min walk to work. Also, it would be nice if it could double as a USB battery pack to charge a phone, for instance.
What happens when two people stand next to each other, both with one of these?
Back in 2006 I watched "American Inventor" Sheryl McDonald had a similar product as this KAZbrella but better. not only was it an "upsidedown" umbrella but when you collapsed the umbrella it was surrounded by a cover so no water would spill on you. here is a post that summarizes one episode that inludes her, I have been unable to find video of the show: http://www.fansofrealitytv.com/forums/official-articles/5379...
It seems funny but smart at the same time. I wanna know more about the wind resistance, however. I realize this might not be the design goal, but how does it compare with Senz, for example?
Funny, but impractical, IMO.
Takes more room (envision this in either a car, a bus, or a train), cumbersome to carry (you basically have to hold it up your shoulder, parasol-style, which means it will catch wind even if it doesn't rain), and the in/underside of the canopy will be wet by the time you deploy it.
(Opinion formed on basis of the front page. Didn't watch a video)
Takes more room (envision this in either a car, a bus, or a train), cumbersome to carry (you basically have to hold it up your shoulder, parasol-style, which means it will catch wind even if it doesn't rain), and the in/underside of the canopy will be wet by the time you deploy it.
(Opinion formed on basis of the front page. Didn't watch a video)
On a side note, I think that for products like this to be successful, they need to open source the design and the hardware. Yes, there will be the chinese knock-offs if I want to buy a cheap one, but those never have the desired quality that I desire.
By having it as a proprietary products, the product is relegated to a niche market, that too in a Umbrella market where people would be reluctant to shift from the time-tested design.
By having it as a proprietary products, the product is relegated to a niche market, that too in a Umbrella market where people would be reluctant to shift from the time-tested design.
Previously on HN:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9437364
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9437364
I swear by these https://www.bluntumbrellas.com
The market will ultimately decide, but I presumed most people were happy with their old fashioned umbrellas.
I live in the UK, so I have some experience of rain and using umbrellas. I like the idea of arriving home and not getting the floor soaking wet. However, most of the problems it describes are not problems I experience. My umbrella problems:
* Walking in the wind - when it's blustery, I get blown all over the place. Even if the umbrella is strong enough to withstand the wind, it's difficult to walk with one.
* I frequently lose my umbrella, which is why I wouldn't pay more than £5 for one. I often leave it on public transport or at someone's house. At work, people also have a tendency to 'borrow' my umbrella permanently.
* If I'm walking anything more than a mile, holding an umbrella the whole way can be annoying, but I don't want to be an uber-nerd with an umbrella attached to my head. I want something that does the job of an umbrella for the price of an umbrella but looks like a hat or coat.
Failing that, I'll stick with a £5 umbrella from the supermarket.
* Walking in the wind - when it's blustery, I get blown all over the place. Even if the umbrella is strong enough to withstand the wind, it's difficult to walk with one.
* I frequently lose my umbrella, which is why I wouldn't pay more than £5 for one. I often leave it on public transport or at someone's house. At work, people also have a tendency to 'borrow' my umbrella permanently.
* If I'm walking anything more than a mile, holding an umbrella the whole way can be annoying, but I don't want to be an uber-nerd with an umbrella attached to my head. I want something that does the job of an umbrella for the price of an umbrella but looks like a hat or coat.
Failing that, I'll stick with a £5 umbrella from the supermarket.
The things that do the job of an umbrella while looking like a hat or coat are actually just hats and coats.
A quality cowboy hat, sou'wester, or fedora (an actual fedora, not a fashion-accessory trilby masquerading as one) made of water-resistant fur-felt, oilskin, or leather, and a prairie duster, slicker, poncho, or trench coat, made from similarly waterproofed materials, cover just about every use case where umbrellas fail.
The umbrella is actually not much use except when you are just walking from one sheltered area to another, and don't need to actually do anything in the rain. For that, I can ignore all of the minor problems with cheap umbrellas, because I consider them as semi-disposable convenience items.
If I ever thought I needed a truly fine-quality umbrella, I'd spend that money on a nice hat instead.
A quality cowboy hat, sou'wester, or fedora (an actual fedora, not a fashion-accessory trilby masquerading as one) made of water-resistant fur-felt, oilskin, or leather, and a prairie duster, slicker, poncho, or trench coat, made from similarly waterproofed materials, cover just about every use case where umbrellas fail.
The umbrella is actually not much use except when you are just walking from one sheltered area to another, and don't need to actually do anything in the rain. For that, I can ignore all of the minor problems with cheap umbrellas, because I consider them as semi-disposable convenience items.
If I ever thought I needed a truly fine-quality umbrella, I'd spend that money on a nice hat instead.
Is this spam? If I were to guess, this looks like some marketer trying to make a product go viral. But I looked at the poster's history, though, and brown-dragon doesn't seem to be a shill.
Am I missing something here? Are people actually excited about a minor change to the design of an umbrella?
Am I missing something here? Are people actually excited about a minor change to the design of an umbrella?
I would not call it a minor change. Umbrella design hasn't changed for centuries and it always had the same problems. This design fixes them, so I, for one, welcome it with open hands and I'm happy it reached HN, because I wouldn't learn about it otherwise (sadly the Kickstarter campaign ended so I have to wait until they open for the rest of people).
Checkout the bluetooth-enabled umbrella: http://www.thenewsminute.com/article/keralas-umbrella-innova...
Solves a non-problem.
Yeah, kinda my thought too. Pretty much everything they cite as advantageous with the design also has drawbacks that the traditional umbrella doesn't. Here are some advantages they demonstrate and where that "advantage" leads to other possible issues:
Getting in an out of a car, staying dry. A) not as big of a problem as they show, but also B) if could do similar bad acting of me getting out of a car trying to open up the kazbrella and being annoyed that in poking the umbrella out of the car I got the supposed-to-be-dry-side wet and now it's dripping on me.
Won't drip water inside? No, it won't if you hold it upside down. But now you're carrying a pool of water with you. Careful opening it. And the umbrella will be even worse at drying in tight quarters when you can't open it up.
Dry side is on outside so it doesn't get things wet. They show somebody placing it on seating. Yep, now that pool of water is spilling in some direction. Also, if you do have the umbrella outside and it suddenly starts to rain, the side that's supposed to remain dry is the one getting wet until you get the thing opened up.
It was probably a fun project to design, but I don't think it's as useful as they want you to think it is.
Getting in an out of a car, staying dry. A) not as big of a problem as they show, but also B) if could do similar bad acting of me getting out of a car trying to open up the kazbrella and being annoyed that in poking the umbrella out of the car I got the supposed-to-be-dry-side wet and now it's dripping on me.
Won't drip water inside? No, it won't if you hold it upside down. But now you're carrying a pool of water with you. Careful opening it. And the umbrella will be even worse at drying in tight quarters when you can't open it up.
Dry side is on outside so it doesn't get things wet. They show somebody placing it on seating. Yep, now that pool of water is spilling in some direction. Also, if you do have the umbrella outside and it suddenly starts to rain, the side that's supposed to remain dry is the one getting wet until you get the thing opened up.
It was probably a fun project to design, but I don't think it's as useful as they want you to think it is.
The description on the front page is badly in need of editing -- word choice is awkward and stilted. The template you've used looks really unpolished for a product page.
https://www.senz.com/en/ not tried one!
I have never heard of getting drench by a folded umbrella..lol. A solution in need of a problem
When I lived in NYC and it rained the subway car floors would have streams of water running in them.. I can't say I remember my pant legs getting soaked by someone else's umbrella mainly because they were already soaked walking to the subway because of the wind.
I mean it seems like a nice design and it does suck getting into a car with an umbrella.
I mean it seems like a nice design and it does suck getting into a car with an umbrella.
Uh, I think I have something like this . . .
Men should only use an umbrella in a heavy rain, never in a sprinkle.
The landing page doesn't communicate features, in particular, why this design is better than the old one - or even what the design is. This makes the whole thing highly suspect. It's hard to get enthusiastic about something who's utility is, at best, marginally better than what already exists.
I mean, if you want to improve the umbrella, you could make one with a highly reflective inner surface that doubles as a solar oven. Maybe even a solar oven on the top surface that works on sunny days, so you can keep the sun off you and cook food, at the same time. Or, I like umbrellas that have useful information printed on them, like subway maps. Or, how about a hollow handle made of clear material that lets you measure how much it's raining. Or maybe an umbrella on a gimbal, so that if it's windy some of the energy can be absorbed by angular momentum.
I mean, if you want to improve the umbrella, you could make one with a highly reflective inner surface that doubles as a solar oven. Maybe even a solar oven on the top surface that works on sunny days, so you can keep the sun off you and cook food, at the same time. Or, I like umbrellas that have useful information printed on them, like subway maps. Or, how about a hollow handle made of clear material that lets you measure how much it's raining. Or maybe an umbrella on a gimbal, so that if it's windy some of the energy can be absorbed by angular momentum.
> No Gimmicks
I don't like gimmicks.
> Pure Engineering
I do like engineering.
> The KAZbrella is an evolution of the conventional umbrella.
OK, tell me more.
> Through many years of research and engineering we have redesigned the mechanics of the umbrella whilst maintaining the familiar umbrella look.
I'm on the hook...
> The KAZbrella is a patented reverse folding umbrella.
And... letdown. It's an umbrella that folds the other way...
Sure, maybe the outside of it while folded won't "press up against your leg, soaking your trousers and bag and drips on the already wet floor", but this means the water stays trapped on the inside of the folded creases, leading to mildew and a musty smell, and the rest still "drips on the already wet floor".
I don't see this thing taking the world by storm anytime soon.
I don't like gimmicks.
> Pure Engineering
I do like engineering.
> The KAZbrella is an evolution of the conventional umbrella.
OK, tell me more.
> Through many years of research and engineering we have redesigned the mechanics of the umbrella whilst maintaining the familiar umbrella look.
I'm on the hook...
> The KAZbrella is a patented reverse folding umbrella.
And... letdown. It's an umbrella that folds the other way...
Sure, maybe the outside of it while folded won't "press up against your leg, soaking your trousers and bag and drips on the already wet floor", but this means the water stays trapped on the inside of the folded creases, leading to mildew and a musty smell, and the rest still "drips on the already wet floor".
I don't see this thing taking the world by storm anytime soon.
From the FAQ on KickStarter:
The canopy is made from breathable material with a hydrophobic coating so the water beads and rolls off the canopy without being absorbed. The KAZbrella is no more likely to get mould than a conventional umbrella. Mould will only occur if you leave dirt or mud on your KAZbrella.
The canopy is made from breathable material with a hydrophobic coating so the water beads and rolls off the canopy without being absorbed. The KAZbrella is no more likely to get mould than a conventional umbrella. Mould will only occur if you leave dirt or mud on your KAZbrella.
Why would the water be trapped? You still store the umbrella upside down. And lots of people already use mini umbrellas with similar folds in them.
When you close your umbrella and put the strap around it (like when you are on the bus or train, or at the office or home for the night), water is still on it and must evaporate. It takes time. But with a reversed umbrella, the water will be on the inside, not exposed to the open air.
[deleted]
The Kickstarter page and video have a lot more information https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/kazbrella/kazbrella-rev...
The web site does suck, but the umbrella design is explained.
It sounds like a really good design actually.
It sounds like a really good design actually.
It feels like it's being sold as a conversation piece for people who want to promote the brand just because it has a quirk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BLYLrdOXe8 has examples of the umbrella unfurling and the motivations behind the design.