An Airbnb Thanksgiving Burglary(ternaus.blog)
ternaus.blog
An Airbnb Thanksgiving Burglary
https://ternaus.blog/incident/2020/12/01/Airbnb-Thanksgiving-Burglary.html
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> I've known of people working in the industry, casually making fraudulent claims on devices just because they felt like an upgrade.
Can you explain this part in more detail?
Can you explain this part in more detail?
Early in my time in the travel industry I heard of mid-to-senior-ranking staff in major travel companies who would file fraudulent travel insurance claims for "lost"/"stolen" devices, when the device was neither lost nor stolen. It was told as if this was a fairly common/routine act.
Of course it's not just in travel where this kind of thing happens. I once watched as an acquaintance who worked in a senior/highly-paid job for a major bank, deliberately destroy a high-end phone/PDA (it was a long time ago) so he could claim a new one from his employer.
Of course it's not just in travel where this kind of thing happens. I once watched as an acquaintance who worked in a senior/highly-paid job for a major bank, deliberately destroy a high-end phone/PDA (it was a long time ago) so he could claim a new one from his employer.
Sorry for your experience. Interesting post, chilling thoughts at the end:
>When I sit in front of the computer in San Francisco, the only thing that comes to my mind is to build a Face Recognition system and check the burglar’s face in it. Something similar to Clearview. Machine Learning is my expertise; creating such a system is straightforward but will take some time. Tempting. Thinking about it.
The thought my peers are pushing for extended surveillance/identification tooling is terrifying.
>When I sit in front of the computer in San Francisco, the only thing that comes to my mind is to build a Face Recognition system and check the burglar’s face in it. Something similar to Clearview. Machine Learning is my expertise; creating such a system is straightforward but will take some time. Tempting. Thinking about it.
The thought my peers are pushing for extended surveillance/identification tooling is terrifying.
It’s terrifying, but somewhat natural. They feel violated. AirBnB gives them a pittance. The police say they don’t think they will catch the crooks. The host shrugs their shoulders and moves on.
The author is looking for an alternative, even if it’s somewhat dark. Ideally, AirBnB would either provide or mandate insurance for situations like this, but they can probably increase profits by allowing this type of bad situation to hit a small minority of customers.
The author is looking for an alternative, even if it’s somewhat dark. Ideally, AirBnB would either provide or mandate insurance for situations like this, but they can probably increase profits by allowing this type of bad situation to hit a small minority of customers.
> would either provide or mandate insurance
No hotel does this. They clearly state that your possessions are solely your responsibility. Some may provide a small safe for valuables.
No hotel does this. They clearly state that your possessions are solely your responsibility. Some may provide a small safe for valuables.
I agree somewhat natural. Sometimes it is just bad luck and there isn’t a next step or something we should be doing. Just keep using Airbnb and hope it doesn’t happen again. Thats what I would do.
Did you expect nuance from the "Kaggle Grandmaster" who's too thick to secure valuables in a not-quite-hotel? Between travelling to another state to Friendsgiving during the pandemic, and having zero awareness that his destination city's economy's been shattered by said pandemic, then getting jacked by locals... maybe he should grow some awareness.
A bit acrid but maybe on point. I feel what bothers me the most is that I related to the post until the very end. What frustrates me is that I, too, operate under a guise of assumptions that might not be mandated: there is room for nefarious actors in the AirBnb system, up to and including hosts who control the wifi you connect to and/or the locks you use. I'm not sure where to take it from here, Awareness is a delicate virtue, too much of it and it turns into paranoia.
Personally, I don't trust panes of glass or rental doors (where anyone could have copied keys) to keep my belongings safe. I have a small backpack that always contains my laptops and cameras, and it comes everywhere with me when I am traveling.
I don't leave it at the hotel, I don't leave it in the airbnb, and I don't leave it in the car. (Remember, the trunk of the car is one smashed window and four seconds away from being opened with the interior trunk release button.)
Then again, I also don't go rock climbing, so obviously my approach wouldn't work for everyone.
I grew up in a place where anything left anywhere in a car (trunk, passenger compartment, back seat, glove box, whatever), locked or unlocked, was fair game in 60 seconds. People who leave thousands of dollars of valuables in places without physical security other than panes of glass baffle me, but I also recognize that my experiences are unique in much of the developed world.
OP, don't beat yourself up over the unlocked window; even if it had been locked, the sliding glass door in the back was a one second barrier.
I don't leave it at the hotel, I don't leave it in the airbnb, and I don't leave it in the car. (Remember, the trunk of the car is one smashed window and four seconds away from being opened with the interior trunk release button.)
Then again, I also don't go rock climbing, so obviously my approach wouldn't work for everyone.
I grew up in a place where anything left anywhere in a car (trunk, passenger compartment, back seat, glove box, whatever), locked or unlocked, was fair game in 60 seconds. People who leave thousands of dollars of valuables in places without physical security other than panes of glass baffle me, but I also recognize that my experiences are unique in much of the developed world.
OP, don't beat yourself up over the unlocked window; even if it had been locked, the sliding glass door in the back was a one second barrier.
My mother was always very persistent in stuff like 'when you put your bag down you keep it close and in the inside of the table not on the aisle side. If she would get money from, one of us would walk between her and her bag.
I still do all those things, i don't think its hard to do, my wife though had to learn through me that you carry your bag back with both strips and not casual with one as it makes it much easier to just grab it.
I believe, while you can always be the target, the reason why so much stuff is stolen on holiday is simply because a lot of peple don't know and don't care.
I walk through a crowd of people, and i spot tons of people around me i would probably steal of before i would even consider that one dude having everything close on him.
I still do all those things, i don't think its hard to do, my wife though had to learn through me that you carry your bag back with both strips and not casual with one as it makes it much easier to just grab it.
I believe, while you can always be the target, the reason why so much stuff is stolen on holiday is simply because a lot of peple don't know and don't care.
I walk through a crowd of people, and i spot tons of people around me i would probably steal of before i would even consider that one dude having everything close on him.
Yeah, it's zero extra effort in most cases to make your stuff way harder to steal. All it takes is awareness.
Thanks for sharing your story. It's good to know how that can go. Not the best possible outcome, but not the worst either.
In regards to this:
>I would like to end the story with some action items like: “Next time, when I rent a place, I will do XXX.” Nothing reasonable comes to my mind.
Something you can do is carry anything with high value density, and hide other valuables out of sight. I tend to carry things I'm attached to with me, especially when in unfamiliar area. An AirBnB is not much different from a hotel room in terms of valuables safety. You don't know who may have access to the place. It's nice that AirBnB replaced your stuff.
Just want to let you know, while your site is loading, it shifts around several times, which gives it a bit of a janky feel. Looks nice otherwise, though.
In regards to this:
>I would like to end the story with some action items like: “Next time, when I rent a place, I will do XXX.” Nothing reasonable comes to my mind.
Something you can do is carry anything with high value density, and hide other valuables out of sight. I tend to carry things I'm attached to with me, especially when in unfamiliar area. An AirBnB is not much different from a hotel room in terms of valuables safety. You don't know who may have access to the place. It's nice that AirBnB replaced your stuff.
Just want to let you know, while your site is loading, it shifts around several times, which gives it a bit of a janky feel. Looks nice otherwise, though.
While I lived in Amsterdam I could have made LOTS of money from AirBnB, and again where I live now close to the mountains.
However, I offer a room on CouchSurfing and to friends-of-friends in sporting activities I do..... for ZERO. Nada. Zip.
Why should only those with deep pockets pay insane prices?
An amazing stream of people from all walks of life have passed through my home able to enjoy things on a shoestring budget.
In return each guest has offered the same gesture if I am ever in their country.
You don't get that with AirBnB as paying customers!
However, I offer a room on CouchSurfing and to friends-of-friends in sporting activities I do..... for ZERO. Nada. Zip.
Why should only those with deep pockets pay insane prices?
An amazing stream of people from all walks of life have passed through my home able to enjoy things on a shoestring budget.
In return each guest has offered the same gesture if I am ever in their country.
You don't get that with AirBnB as paying customers!
that is really cool. I feel like that in and of itself would be a great app, with some sort of vetting / bg check / social proof baked in of course.
Well, it exists! It's called CouchSurfing. See https://www.couchsurfing.com/.
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Imagine your thought would be more like:
"huh what made a fellow human go so far to steal from an AirBnB rental in Las Vegas on Thanksgiving?
We should make sure that education and social support are so strong that this is not an issue.
But hey, its just easier to try to solve it the other way around right? You can develop your face detection and human beeing tracking skynet from your nice SF home with your nice gear and let the policy handle those animals.
I don't think this is easy for anyone dont' get me wrong but even myself i'm sometimes envy of the neighbours greener gras while i'm off very very well and i'm very torn if thats fair or not. Im still egoistic enough that i'm not giving my stuff away and still being smart about my money, but at least im living in a much more social country.
People in the usa should perhaps start to solve the real hard problems. 128 place in the global peace index is not very good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Peace_Index
Ah and just a tip for every traveler: Take only what you need, always look it away or have it on you.
"huh what made a fellow human go so far to steal from an AirBnB rental in Las Vegas on Thanksgiving?
We should make sure that education and social support are so strong that this is not an issue.
But hey, its just easier to try to solve it the other way around right? You can develop your face detection and human beeing tracking skynet from your nice SF home with your nice gear and let the policy handle those animals.
I don't think this is easy for anyone dont' get me wrong but even myself i'm sometimes envy of the neighbours greener gras while i'm off very very well and i'm very torn if thats fair or not. Im still egoistic enough that i'm not giving my stuff away and still being smart about my money, but at least im living in a much more social country.
People in the usa should perhaps start to solve the real hard problems. 128 place in the global peace index is not very good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Peace_Index
Ah and just a tip for every traveler: Take only what you need, always look it away or have it on you.
> "huh what made a fellow human go so far to steal from an AirBnB rental in Las Vegas on Thanksgiving?
You seem to imply desperation, lack of perspective etc., but given that what they stole is worth several months' of wages for many people, maybe it was just greed, and the person doesn't need help, they need proper incentives. And by incentives, I mean getting caught and thrown in jail.
You seem to imply desperation, lack of perspective etc., but given that what they stole is worth several months' of wages for many people, maybe it was just greed, and the person doesn't need help, they need proper incentives. And by incentives, I mean getting caught and thrown in jail.
" imply desperation, lack of perspective etc"
Does it really matter when you steal if you take all macbooks or just one?
Of course those people don't see any issue in what they are doing. It's time to resocialize people.
Proper incentive? Like being thrown into jail which is not designed to rehabilitate those people?
It looks to me that this is a very good approach on how its handled in the USA. Not solving any real issues, making sure people land in jail and when they are out, continuing what they where doing before. Additional more police force, more video cameras, more survailance systems, more guns (don't forget the guns!) etc.
Sounds similar to 'war of drugs' which works as well as the USA prison system.
Don't get me wrong, perhaps USA is just so so much different then the rest of the world but the USA has the most people incarcerated per 100,000 residents of the whole world. Just let that sink in and question yourself if there is just something not working.
"The U.S. incarceration rate is 693 per 100,000 residents —compared to 76 per 100,000 in Germany"
Does it really matter when you steal if you take all macbooks or just one?
Of course those people don't see any issue in what they are doing. It's time to resocialize people.
Proper incentive? Like being thrown into jail which is not designed to rehabilitate those people?
It looks to me that this is a very good approach on how its handled in the USA. Not solving any real issues, making sure people land in jail and when they are out, continuing what they where doing before. Additional more police force, more video cameras, more survailance systems, more guns (don't forget the guns!) etc.
Sounds similar to 'war of drugs' which works as well as the USA prison system.
Don't get me wrong, perhaps USA is just so so much different then the rest of the world but the USA has the most people incarcerated per 100,000 residents of the whole world. Just let that sink in and question yourself if there is just something not working.
"The U.S. incarceration rate is 693 per 100,000 residents —compared to 76 per 100,000 in Germany"
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Fencing proceeds are generally 5-10% of expected sale value. That's a few hundred dollars at most, if you accept the OP's dubious "brand new" valuation of all possessions. $100-300 is gone the same night if the thief's hooked on meth or heroin, which in Nevada is almost certain.
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why are you making up some fake backstory for the thieves? for all you know they are millionaires and doing it for fun. not every criminal is a victim of the society. some just steal stuff for fun or because they dont want a job or because they can.
Airbnb has insurance that covers $500. Anything more expensive is your responsibility. To expect them to have insurance that covers more would be a waste of money to customers on a budget. Either get insurance that covers your expensive belongings (and accept that it will cost a lot because your belongings might not be securely locked up all the time) or securely lock up your expensive stuff.
It is unclear that the host secured the property to the standard required by airbnb and their insurance but that would be a matter between airbnb and the host not between the host and guest.
It is unclear that the host secured the property to the standard required by airbnb and their insurance but that would be a matter between airbnb and the host not between the host and guest.
> We interpreted the email as: “We will compensate up to $500 per stolen item”.
Just about fell out of my chair at this one. They expected a blank check?
Just about fell out of my chair at this one. They expected a blank check?
> Vladimir Iglovikov. PhD in Physics. Veteran of Russian Spetsnaz. Kaggle Grandmaster.
> When I sit in front of the computer in San Francisco, the only thing that comes to my mind is to build a Face Recognition system and check the burglar’s face in it. Something similar to Clearview. Machine Learning is my expertise; creating such a system is straightforward but will take some time. Tempting. Thinking about it.
Two considerations, after reading this story.
1) It's not a good idea to mess with an ex-Spetsnaz. Plus a PhD in Physics! I wouldn't want to be the burglar. Your days are numbered.
2) I would hire this guy in a heartbeat. Wouldn't even do a single interview.
> When I sit in front of the computer in San Francisco, the only thing that comes to my mind is to build a Face Recognition system and check the burglar’s face in it. Something similar to Clearview. Machine Learning is my expertise; creating such a system is straightforward but will take some time. Tempting. Thinking about it.
Two considerations, after reading this story.
1) It's not a good idea to mess with an ex-Spetsnaz. Plus a PhD in Physics! I wouldn't want to be the burglar. Your days are numbered.
2) I would hire this guy in a heartbeat. Wouldn't even do a single interview.
AirBnB used to be great, but I ended up deleting my account. It's my own anecdata and I'm sure others still have great experiences, but I got three places in a row that were being operated as something like short-term tenement housing with everything at the bare minimum quality and cleanliness. Charging hundred euro cleaning fees and then leaving a bad review that there were dirty dishes left in the sink, which apparently we were foolish to assume would be included in whatever expensive cleaning service they were using. An expensive apartment that was not cleaned between stays, that had no cleaning supplies in the apartment and the owner was out of the country, and then the owner complained that it was still dirty when we left.
Popularity has ruined it in my opinion.
Popularity has ruined it in my opinion.
It depends on the price point. If you rent cheap then yes your experience may vary. But I’ve always had consistently good experiences on Airbnb. I rent at the higher end of the price range though.
I’ll second that, if you’re on a budget rent a room at someone’s place instead of a full apartment, much better experience.
I don't understand how this could happen in places that have good reviews. I only consider places with a minimum of 10 reviews and avg score > 4 stars. Never had a bad experience.
I’ve rented several whole apartments in various places in Europe, and have never been disappointed. I do also take a good look at the photos and set my price above absolute rock-bottom. I’ve never left or received a bad review.
I’ve also only rented places that were meant for rentals and never the homes of non-professionals. Maybe that’s the difference?
I’ve also only rented places that were meant for rentals and never the homes of non-professionals. Maybe that’s the difference?
I've deleted my account and vowed never to support the company again. If it works, it's great. If it doesn't, you're completely hosed, often with no ability to complain or get recompense beyond your own insurance and/or consumer credit legislation. Their customer service system is _designed_ to make it as hard as possible to contact a human, and there are times when you _really_ need to contact a human. Three vignettes over three different years highlight why:
(a) Experience 1: Went to a scientific conference, rented a flat ["condo" in en-us] in Toronto with colleagues. Beautiful apartment, great location, great price. Toilet blocked on day 3. Host blamed the only female member of my party and claimed that she must have flushed 'sanitary products' down it -- without having previously seen it. Colleague was offended. Searching ~500 reviews showed occasional mention of toilet blocking. Host did not unblock toilet. Toilet started to accumulate other people's toilet contents. I went and bought draino and a plunger. I got toilet semi-working before the flat got filled with faeces. It still stank. I complained to the host and asked if she could sort out a plumber. Host blamed us, refused to. At the end of the stay, host charged us 600 CAD, and took the deposit, for a plumber coming to rod the building, and, again, blamed my female colleague for flushing tampons down it. Female friend/colleague flatly told me that she wasn't menstruating that week, didn't flush anything, and the whole thing was moot.
I became convinced that someone, at some point in the past, had indeed flushed something inappropriate, and the host knew about this, and then used us to pay for fixing it. Complained to Airbnb (a difficult thing to do). Airbnb sided with the host. Ended up making a chargeback on my credit card and they never pursued it.
(b) Experience 2: A colleague of mine rented an airbnb house in Montreal for a large group of us for the same scientific conference a few years later. We arrived, late at night, to see her upset and wet. The property had a definite vibe of crack-den-cum-brothel. There were urine stains on the curtains, a broken poledancing pole in the corner, and the whole place smelt of bad air-freshner, cigarette smoke, urine, and semen. The windows were broken, electricity didn't work, the sockets were hanging out of the walls, and the roof leaked. The front door locked, but you could push the polystyrene out of the windows and hop in. It was the same place as described on the net, just...ruined. We'd just landed on an international flight, it was about 2 am local time, and we were shattered. Airbnb refused to do anything. We paid for another hotel out of our own pockets, and claimed on insurance. Airbnb eventually gave us travel credit.
(c) Experience 3: Cologne, DE. Friend's stag do ["bachelor party" in en-us]. Again, group of us, going on a weekend holiday for go-karting, to see the groom's family, a bit of football (to date the only live football I have ever seen in my life), and some opera [we had a mix of tastes]. Nice-looking airbnb apartment booked by a friend of mine, who was german, with good reviews. We travel to Germany, and he gets a message. The host wants to meet in a random location.
Now, something I didn't realise at the time was that Cologne was home to Europe's largest brothel [1], and where the host wanted to meet us was in a nearby park to Pascha. At about 10 pm at night. We turn up, huddle by a dark tree away from street lighting as per instructions, and this guy on a BMX bike arrives out of the gloom. A hushed, sotto voce conversation takes place in German with my friend, of which I glean a few bits of information -- there's quite a lot of apology and "take it or leave it". Guy on bike vanishes into the night towards the brothel. My friend says, in english, "Okay, so there has been a change of plan...." and proceeds to hand us all ~€20 in cash, and some keys. We go for what seems like forever on the u-bahn to a totally different location, again, by a sex shop, and arrive outside a concrete block of flats. There's a single lightbulb swinging in the stairwell. The flat on the right has a solid steel front door with reinforced piano hinges. The (three) keys open the locks. It's the kind of lock that needs keys on both sides to open. We go inside, and see a completely furnitureless apartment, with a wooden park bench in the kitchen and a pyramid of toilet-rolls by the toilet -- right on the left side, without a door to the hallway. The two bedrooms consist of enough mattresses for us all on the floor, with threadbare blankets on top. By this point, it's about 3 am, and I am exhausted. I lie down, and the pillow feels like it bites me. I reach around, try to adjust it, and realise that it's not really a pillow. It's the broken arm of a sofa in a cotton sack. I wonder if this is repurposed accommodation for...a different purpose. -----
Three times. Once by my own volition, and twice by peer pressure. I'm not staying in an Airbnb again, even if someone else is paying. Hotels may have their own problems, but fundamentally I don't feel like I'm going to get "accidentally" confused for a sex slave at 3 in the morning when the mob come knocking. I also think it's better to support a business that pays taxes (even if it's a badly run business) than what I can only describe as tax-dodging "entrepreneurs". Avoid Airbnb. Just do so.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascha_(brothel)
(a) Experience 1: Went to a scientific conference, rented a flat ["condo" in en-us] in Toronto with colleagues. Beautiful apartment, great location, great price. Toilet blocked on day 3. Host blamed the only female member of my party and claimed that she must have flushed 'sanitary products' down it -- without having previously seen it. Colleague was offended. Searching ~500 reviews showed occasional mention of toilet blocking. Host did not unblock toilet. Toilet started to accumulate other people's toilet contents. I went and bought draino and a plunger. I got toilet semi-working before the flat got filled with faeces. It still stank. I complained to the host and asked if she could sort out a plumber. Host blamed us, refused to. At the end of the stay, host charged us 600 CAD, and took the deposit, for a plumber coming to rod the building, and, again, blamed my female colleague for flushing tampons down it. Female friend/colleague flatly told me that she wasn't menstruating that week, didn't flush anything, and the whole thing was moot.
I became convinced that someone, at some point in the past, had indeed flushed something inappropriate, and the host knew about this, and then used us to pay for fixing it. Complained to Airbnb (a difficult thing to do). Airbnb sided with the host. Ended up making a chargeback on my credit card and they never pursued it.
(b) Experience 2: A colleague of mine rented an airbnb house in Montreal for a large group of us for the same scientific conference a few years later. We arrived, late at night, to see her upset and wet. The property had a definite vibe of crack-den-cum-brothel. There were urine stains on the curtains, a broken poledancing pole in the corner, and the whole place smelt of bad air-freshner, cigarette smoke, urine, and semen. The windows were broken, electricity didn't work, the sockets were hanging out of the walls, and the roof leaked. The front door locked, but you could push the polystyrene out of the windows and hop in. It was the same place as described on the net, just...ruined. We'd just landed on an international flight, it was about 2 am local time, and we were shattered. Airbnb refused to do anything. We paid for another hotel out of our own pockets, and claimed on insurance. Airbnb eventually gave us travel credit.
(c) Experience 3: Cologne, DE. Friend's stag do ["bachelor party" in en-us]. Again, group of us, going on a weekend holiday for go-karting, to see the groom's family, a bit of football (to date the only live football I have ever seen in my life), and some opera [we had a mix of tastes]. Nice-looking airbnb apartment booked by a friend of mine, who was german, with good reviews. We travel to Germany, and he gets a message. The host wants to meet in a random location.
Now, something I didn't realise at the time was that Cologne was home to Europe's largest brothel [1], and where the host wanted to meet us was in a nearby park to Pascha. At about 10 pm at night. We turn up, huddle by a dark tree away from street lighting as per instructions, and this guy on a BMX bike arrives out of the gloom. A hushed, sotto voce conversation takes place in German with my friend, of which I glean a few bits of information -- there's quite a lot of apology and "take it or leave it". Guy on bike vanishes into the night towards the brothel. My friend says, in english, "Okay, so there has been a change of plan...." and proceeds to hand us all ~€20 in cash, and some keys. We go for what seems like forever on the u-bahn to a totally different location, again, by a sex shop, and arrive outside a concrete block of flats. There's a single lightbulb swinging in the stairwell. The flat on the right has a solid steel front door with reinforced piano hinges. The (three) keys open the locks. It's the kind of lock that needs keys on both sides to open. We go inside, and see a completely furnitureless apartment, with a wooden park bench in the kitchen and a pyramid of toilet-rolls by the toilet -- right on the left side, without a door to the hallway. The two bedrooms consist of enough mattresses for us all on the floor, with threadbare blankets on top. By this point, it's about 3 am, and I am exhausted. I lie down, and the pillow feels like it bites me. I reach around, try to adjust it, and realise that it's not really a pillow. It's the broken arm of a sofa in a cotton sack. I wonder if this is repurposed accommodation for...a different purpose. -----
Three times. Once by my own volition, and twice by peer pressure. I'm not staying in an Airbnb again, even if someone else is paying. Hotels may have their own problems, but fundamentally I don't feel like I'm going to get "accidentally" confused for a sex slave at 3 in the morning when the mob come knocking. I also think it's better to support a business that pays taxes (even if it's a badly run business) than what I can only describe as tax-dodging "entrepreneurs". Avoid Airbnb. Just do so.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascha_(brothel)
> I would like to end the story with some action items like: “Next time, when I rent a place, I will do XXX.” Nothing reasonable comes to my mind.
Checking to make sure the locks work seems like a reasonable and already recommended step. How one goes immediately to some AI thing and misses 20 more realistic steps in-between is a bit perplexing to me. Second more reasonable step, keep valuables secured or in your possession.
I'm more paranoid than most with no real reason to be. I take a few moments to look around when staying in a hotel or airbnb. I turn the flashlight on to look for any hidden lenses in smoke detectors and vents etc, identify and disable things that could be used to listen in like smart speakers and tv's. I'm not looking to be some super secure safe room but a few minutes prevents most petty maliciousness or "opportunities". I'm more distrustful of Airbnb's than hotels.
Checking to make sure the locks work seems like a reasonable and already recommended step. How one goes immediately to some AI thing and misses 20 more realistic steps in-between is a bit perplexing to me. Second more reasonable step, keep valuables secured or in your possession.
I'm more paranoid than most with no real reason to be. I take a few moments to look around when staying in a hotel or airbnb. I turn the flashlight on to look for any hidden lenses in smoke detectors and vents etc, identify and disable things that could be used to listen in like smart speakers and tv's. I'm not looking to be some super secure safe room but a few minutes prevents most petty maliciousness or "opportunities". I'm more distrustful of Airbnb's than hotels.
It’s unfortunate, and Airbnb makes enough in service fee that they should be faster to help on these cases. Once I was in SF and my Airbnb cancelled on me right at check-in time. I was tired, had luggages, I just went to the hilton and checked-in. It was really hard and I had to argue but Airbnb ended up reimbursing me.
Still, I’m scared about the next time I’ll run in troubles with Airbnb.
I find it more and more expensive, and I feel more and more taken advantage of whem they lie anout the pricing (the total amount can easily be thousands of dollars more than what you think when you look at the price/night, while they could show you the real price per night they choose not to)
Still, I’m scared about the next time I’ll run in troubles with Airbnb.
I find it more and more expensive, and I feel more and more taken advantage of whem they lie anout the pricing (the total amount can easily be thousands of dollars more than what you think when you look at the price/night, while they could show you the real price per night they choose not to)
funny right?
On one side you have a real hotel businses, with clear cleaning standards, proper managers and personel. With experience, with save rooms, room standards etc.
But you prefer to go with Airbnb while writing stuff like "Still, I’m scared about the next time I’ll run in troubles with Airbnb."
How about you accept the fact, that AirBnB works because it strips all that stuff, which makes hotels more expensive and more favourable, out of it?
On one side you have a real hotel businses, with clear cleaning standards, proper managers and personel. With experience, with save rooms, room standards etc.
But you prefer to go with Airbnb while writing stuff like "Still, I’m scared about the next time I’ll run in troubles with Airbnb."
How about you accept the fact, that AirBnB works because it strips all that stuff, which makes hotels more expensive and more favourable, out of it?
I just hate hotels so much... I find them expensive, dirty, impersonal (I can remember all the airbnbs I’ve been, and I always felt like I lived in the city for real while in an Airbnb, I can’t remember a single hotel room I’ve been to besides the marina bay sands in singapore)
I much prefer staying at a real place. It’s not Airbnb that I like, it’s the concept. The last place I booked was actually through VRBO.
I much prefer staying at a real place. It’s not Airbnb that I like, it’s the concept. The last place I booked was actually through VRBO.
>Still, I’m scared about the next time I’ll run in troubles with Airbnb.
I've had good experiences with https://vrbo.com
But as with anything else, YMMV.
I've had good experiences with https://vrbo.com
But as with anything else, YMMV.
I use vrbo.com, as I will never ever give my ID to an online platform to "scan" and "verify".
Regardless of statements of "But we delete it after" and "it's safe", time has shown me, again and again, that these statements cannot be made reliably, no matter how much the company desires it.
Even if the platform is 100% safe, patched, security is iron-clad, you still have rogue employees stealing and re-selling IDs. It's a game which cannot be played safely.
So, VRBO it's been for me. And that said? It's overall been a reasonably good experience. They do have this:
https://help.vrbo.com/articles/What-is-the-Book-with-Confide...
And, I've used it once to fight a minor issue. A renter decided they wanted me to sign a 'rental agreement' after I booked, paid, and was 24 hours out from arrival.
Nope. VRBO quashed that. Their statement was "If you cannot get in when you arrive, and the renter cannot be reached/won't allow you in, call us. We'll relocate you / fix it."
Problem went away.
I also have had no issue getting in touch with VRBO, with a human being, whenever required. 5 minute wait is typical.
Of course, I have absolutely no idea about how things are now, during/post pandemic. Lay offs? Confusion? Less revenue? I really do not know.
So it could all be different now... sadly.
Regardless of statements of "But we delete it after" and "it's safe", time has shown me, again and again, that these statements cannot be made reliably, no matter how much the company desires it.
Even if the platform is 100% safe, patched, security is iron-clad, you still have rogue employees stealing and re-selling IDs. It's a game which cannot be played safely.
So, VRBO it's been for me. And that said? It's overall been a reasonably good experience. They do have this:
https://help.vrbo.com/articles/What-is-the-Book-with-Confide...
And, I've used it once to fight a minor issue. A renter decided they wanted me to sign a 'rental agreement' after I booked, paid, and was 24 hours out from arrival.
Nope. VRBO quashed that. Their statement was "If you cannot get in when you arrive, and the renter cannot be reached/won't allow you in, call us. We'll relocate you / fix it."
Problem went away.
I also have had no issue getting in touch with VRBO, with a human being, whenever required. 5 minute wait is typical.
Of course, I have absolutely no idea about how things are now, during/post pandemic. Lay offs? Confusion? Less revenue? I really do not know.
So it could all be different now... sadly.
What’s the value in reselling an ID? And don’t you want a platform to have a bit more control than say craigslist in order to avoid scams?
Uh, what?
You've never heard of identity theft? Or did you ask the same question after Equifax was hacked? I'm not sure I can take that question seriously.
As for ID or no ID, it seems odd that demanding ID, still ends up with all of these airbnb horror stories, yes? Thing is, VRBO checks out landlords more stringently than airbnb, and also charges slightly more.
ID doesn't give control, although I suppose it gives the illusion of it.
You've never heard of identity theft? Or did you ask the same question after Equifax was hacked? I'm not sure I can take that question seriously.
As for ID or no ID, it seems odd that demanding ID, still ends up with all of these airbnb horror stories, yes? Thing is, VRBO checks out landlords more stringently than airbnb, and also charges slightly more.
ID doesn't give control, although I suppose it gives the illusion of it.
An ID is a public document, you show it to anyone asking for it (when buying alcohol, when signing something, when entering a bar, etc.) so if you were scared of identity theft...
I don't show my ID to "anyone asking for it", but to those whom I choose. Further, it is not a "public document". If it were public, I could demand that (for example) the license bureau give me a copy of yours.
As well, there is a massive difference between showing it for a second to a person, and uploading a digitized image of it. In the former, there is no copy or record of it made. It is merely examined for authenticity, against my face or signature.. then immediately returned.
Meanwhile, the digital copy can be further endlessly copied, and without me seeing it happen. I must trust that it is deleted, trust it is never copied, trust the org does not have a leak, trust all her employees, and the list goes on and on and on.
Control, you see, is vital in this equation. Trust, and control. Trust, that I have control. Some of my ID has identification numbers on them. I do not want them to be recorded, and immediately snag back my ID if someone attempts to write them down.
Can I see someone copying my digitized ID? Snag it back, if I mysteriously become aware of it? No, no I can not.
FYI, I actually looked at some of your comment history, for I was absolutely certain you were a professional troll. I see you are not, yet this is how strongly my mind sits in a state of vast befuddlement.
ID theft has been international news, countless laws exist to protect ID, identity.
Yet, you just shrug this all aside, and 'meh' the whole thing?
As well, there is a massive difference between showing it for a second to a person, and uploading a digitized image of it. In the former, there is no copy or record of it made. It is merely examined for authenticity, against my face or signature.. then immediately returned.
Meanwhile, the digital copy can be further endlessly copied, and without me seeing it happen. I must trust that it is deleted, trust it is never copied, trust the org does not have a leak, trust all her employees, and the list goes on and on and on.
Control, you see, is vital in this equation. Trust, and control. Trust, that I have control. Some of my ID has identification numbers on them. I do not want them to be recorded, and immediately snag back my ID if someone attempts to write them down.
Can I see someone copying my digitized ID? Snag it back, if I mysteriously become aware of it? No, no I can not.
FYI, I actually looked at some of your comment history, for I was absolutely certain you were a professional troll. I see you are not, yet this is how strongly my mind sits in a state of vast befuddlement.
ID theft has been international news, countless laws exist to protect ID, identity.
Yet, you just shrug this all aside, and 'meh' the whole thing?
> Further, it is not a "public document". If it were public, I could demand that (for example) the license bureau give me a copy of yours.
That's not what "public" necessarily mean, what you have in mind is published in a public registry, while public here means that there are no secrets involved. Your ID is being circulated, and scanned, and copied, between different people and companies and organizations that you want it or not, because there is no way you can get around in the US (or in most countries) without sharing your ID, or a photo of it, or a photocopy, or the content in it.
> As well, there is a massive difference between showing it for a second to a person, and uploading a digitized image of it. In the former, there is no copy or record of it made. It is merely examined for authenticity, against my face or signature.. then immediately returned.
It's a negligible distinction IMO, some people can make an effort to remember what's on the ID, or to sneakily have a way to take a picture of it. Once you're displaying your ID to somebody's eyes, or handing it to them, it's fair game.
That's not what "public" necessarily mean, what you have in mind is published in a public registry, while public here means that there are no secrets involved. Your ID is being circulated, and scanned, and copied, between different people and companies and organizations that you want it or not, because there is no way you can get around in the US (or in most countries) without sharing your ID, or a photo of it, or a photocopy, or the content in it.
> As well, there is a massive difference between showing it for a second to a person, and uploading a digitized image of it. In the former, there is no copy or record of it made. It is merely examined for authenticity, against my face or signature.. then immediately returned.
It's a negligible distinction IMO, some people can make an effort to remember what's on the ID, or to sneakily have a way to take a picture of it. Once you're displaying your ID to somebody's eyes, or handing it to them, it's fair game.
Your ID is most certainly secret. There are acts all over the world, protecting Personal Identifiable Information (Pii). ID, as it includes things like name, address, sex, height, weight, age, eye colour, signature, falls under a variety of legislations.
My ID is not having any of the things you said, done. Not legally. It is illegal where I live, for companies, or persons, to share PII without permission. And even if permission is granted, there are massive restrictions on how to store it, share it, and so on.
My ID is seen as "a secret to be kept" by the state. Laws exist for the purpose of keeping it as secret as possible.
Due to all of these laws, ID is not asked for, at least where I live, in the bizarre fashion it seems to be asked for, where ever you live. For example, when I open a bank account, the banking rep does ask for my ID, look at my ID, and... return it!
No copying, cloning, scanning, or even writing down the number!
Why would they? The purpose of ID is to show "Yeah, this guy is who he claims to be", and that's it. Purpose over.
Once done, the bank issues me ID to use with it, and its services. My bank card.
And remembering ID? Who would I even be sharing my ID with? I've gone years without pulling it out of my pocket. Why do I need it? For whom? When?
Regardless, your last paragraph isn't relevant. You're discussing someone pulling an illegal act, compared to my desire to reduce the probability of an illegal act happening.
I don't think there's much left to say here. You seem to want to ignore all differences of scale and scope, and just pretend that things with different risk factors, are 100% identical.
My ID is not having any of the things you said, done. Not legally. It is illegal where I live, for companies, or persons, to share PII without permission. And even if permission is granted, there are massive restrictions on how to store it, share it, and so on.
My ID is seen as "a secret to be kept" by the state. Laws exist for the purpose of keeping it as secret as possible.
Due to all of these laws, ID is not asked for, at least where I live, in the bizarre fashion it seems to be asked for, where ever you live. For example, when I open a bank account, the banking rep does ask for my ID, look at my ID, and... return it!
No copying, cloning, scanning, or even writing down the number!
Why would they? The purpose of ID is to show "Yeah, this guy is who he claims to be", and that's it. Purpose over.
Once done, the bank issues me ID to use with it, and its services. My bank card.
And remembering ID? Who would I even be sharing my ID with? I've gone years without pulling it out of my pocket. Why do I need it? For whom? When?
Regardless, your last paragraph isn't relevant. You're discussing someone pulling an illegal act, compared to my desire to reduce the probability of an illegal act happening.
I don't think there's much left to say here. You seem to want to ignore all differences of scale and scope, and just pretend that things with different risk factors, are 100% identical.
> No copying, cloning, scanning, or even writing down the number!
Not sure where you live, but that seems bizarre to me oO btw I've lived in France/China/Canada/UK/US and have had bank accounts in all these countries and remember having to share my ID every time (which was photocopied).
Also PII and laws like GDPRs are not about "secrets".
Not sure where you live, but that seems bizarre to me oO btw I've lived in France/China/Canada/UK/US and have had bank accounts in all these countries and remember having to share my ID every time (which was photocopied).
Also PII and laws like GDPRs are not about "secrets".
No bank photocopies ID in Canada. Ever.
A secret is a thing you do not share with another. What do you think PII laws say? Don't share!
I don't see the point in continuing here. You merely wish to try to change the meaning of words, over and over. It's pointless.
A secret is a thing you do not share with another. What do you think PII laws say? Don't share!
I don't see the point in continuing here. You merely wish to try to change the meaning of words, over and over. It's pointless.
>What’s the value in reselling an ID?
According to this analysis[0], about $20 (not clear from the source whether those are USD or AUD).
[0] https://newsroom.kpmg.com.au/much-personal-identity-worth/
Edit: Clarified that the currency referenced might be USD or AUD.
According to this analysis[0], about $20 (not clear from the source whether those are USD or AUD).
[0] https://newsroom.kpmg.com.au/much-personal-identity-worth/
Edit: Clarified that the currency referenced might be USD or AUD.
I rented an airbnb in Porto, Portugal and went to bed early one night. Someone broken in around 12 am and attempted to come into the apartment. I jumped up and ran to the door and stopped them. They clearly had the keys some how because that was door number three to open and get through. Really sketchy.
Airbnb was at least cool and gave me a refund and let me move. However, two weeks later I checked and the same apartment was for rent! It's clear someone who worked for the owner had a set of keys and was robbing the guests.
Airbnb was at least cool and gave me a refund and let me move. However, two weeks later I checked and the same apartment was for rent! It's clear someone who worked for the owner had a set of keys and was robbing the guests.
I had a similarly weird experience in Lisbon. The Airbnb could only be accessed through this app-controlled lock, and my data plan wasn't working within the building. This meant I had to send the request from outside, and dash in to open the door while it was still unlocked (about a 20 second period).
The second day I was there, I came back from my conference early and couldn't get the door to open using my trick. I called the owners, and they came to open the door for me, which worked fine with their physical keys. But, what do you know — their cleaning lady happened to be in the apartment! She clearly hadn't been scheduled, and they were very surprised.
She left and I looked through my stuff — nothing missing, but a number of items in my bag had been rearranged. She had cleaned up the apartment too, but why was she going through my stuff? I can only think she was looking for cash or something easy to steal without being too noticeable.
Reported it to Airbnb but didn't get a response.
The second day I was there, I came back from my conference early and couldn't get the door to open using my trick. I called the owners, and they came to open the door for me, which worked fine with their physical keys. But, what do you know — their cleaning lady happened to be in the apartment! She clearly hadn't been scheduled, and they were very surprised.
She left and I looked through my stuff — nothing missing, but a number of items in my bag had been rearranged. She had cleaned up the apartment too, but why was she going through my stuff? I can only think she was looking for cash or something easy to steal without being too noticeable.
Reported it to Airbnb but didn't get a response.
Or a past tennant who has simply made a copy of the keys
Had terrible experience with AirBnB support. I had to reach out to them on Twitter and eventually someone got back to me!
You would expect their site to have a clear link to support. Good luck with that.
You would expect their site to have a clear link to support. Good luck with that.
Yeah, nowadays it seems like twitter is the most reliable way to get in touch with support for medium/big companies. Especially if you publicly shame them...
No wonder he had issues contacting support - they just recently fire a whole bunch of people.
Oh? Where did you see that?
https://news.airbnb.com/a-message-from-co-founder-and-ceo-br...
25% of people in May. The virus hit them as well, even though they don’t have that much costs compared to hotels. They only have the website, two apps and all the support people. No properties to manage, pay taxes on, etc
25% of people in May. The virus hit them as well, even though they don’t have that much costs compared to hotels. They only have the website, two apps and all the support people. No properties to manage, pay taxes on, etc
I see, thanks.
I like the way they made provision for everyone to get some equity, and 12 months healthcare, and keep their work laptops.
I like the way they made provision for everyone to get some equity, and 12 months healthcare, and keep their work laptops.
That's an awful lot of kit to take along on a climbing trip, and then to leave behind some of the useful bits in the accommodation.
[deleted]
Disjointed story - if MacBooks were replaced, "money not an issue" - what are you complaining about then ? Why write this sobbing tale?
The story lost credibility with me the moment I saw that all his "stolen" goods list he put with affiliate links to Amazon :) ...
The story lost credibility with me the moment I saw that all his "stolen" goods list he put with affiliate links to Amazon :) ...
I've been an Airbnb guest on 3 continents with good experiences. On 12 November this year, I became an Airbnb host by listing my beach pad for rent in Queensland Australia. What a shock. I am trapped in a Kafkaesque nightmare.
Christmas is mid-summer in Australia. With the southern states coming out of lockdown, and my area COVID free, demand for beachside properties on the Sunshine Coast has never been higher.
The first two bookings went fine. I was having a great Airbnb experience. Then the 3rd and 4th bookings came in at less than half price. I couldn't understand it because Christmas is the peak period of demand, and my new property was the only one listed in the area. All other comparable properties have already been booked for the Christmas-New Years period.
The support staff said the pricing was a result of "Smart Pricing". That's a "feature" that defaults to ON, along with Instant Booking, which means an algorithmically generated price was locked in.
But surely it's a bug to offer a price below the low season minimum for the busiest week of the year, which should rent for 2.5 times that price? And I had set a Custom Price for that week, which "Smart Pricing" ignored!
The support ambassador said she could see my point. She did a search for comparable properties and verified that mine was the only one. She agreed something had gone wrong, and said she would investigate.
I spoke and chatted with 4 different support ambassadors over 5 days. All were professional, polite, and agreed there had been an inexplicable mistake. At 3am on the 5th day, a supervisor unilaterally closed the case via chat, saying "Smart Pricing is based on the type and location of your listing, the season, demand, and other factors. For instructions on how to turn Smart Pricing on or off, visit our Help Center article. I will be out of the office from Nov 17-18. Should you wish to cancel the reservation or need further assistance please know that we are here with you all throughout your Airbnb journey, please don't hesitate to reach out to us."
I didn't want to cancel because this is clearly a bug and I want Airbnb to fix it, for their own sake as well as mine and my guest. My guest over Christmas is an experienced Airbnb superhost, who agrees it is a bug in Airbnb's platform. She doesn't want to re-book either, so we agreed to go through the support process and get a correction. She hoped for compensation.
22 days later, we still have no resolution. 3 days ago, the support ambassador said the issue would be escalated to the Product Team, but to do that, she had to close the support ticket. She said if I wanted to know the status, I could call them back. I asked her which team is working on the problem. She said it's a secret.
I am not the only host to experience this problem.
The problem is evidenced during periods of peak demand e.g. Xmas-NYE in Australia and New York, Spring Break in Hawaii, Winter in Florida. Hosts report "Smart Pricing" has imposed the low season minimum nightly price or below, instead of a high season price.
https://community.withairbnb.com/t5/Help/Smart-Pricing/td-p/...
That's a bug! Hosts lose confidence in Airbnb's platform because "Smart Pricing" costs them money or administrative overhead at precisely the point when Airbnb should be delivering maximum value.
Surely someone at Airbnb can see the value in fixing this?
Christmas is mid-summer in Australia. With the southern states coming out of lockdown, and my area COVID free, demand for beachside properties on the Sunshine Coast has never been higher.
The first two bookings went fine. I was having a great Airbnb experience. Then the 3rd and 4th bookings came in at less than half price. I couldn't understand it because Christmas is the peak period of demand, and my new property was the only one listed in the area. All other comparable properties have already been booked for the Christmas-New Years period.
The support staff said the pricing was a result of "Smart Pricing". That's a "feature" that defaults to ON, along with Instant Booking, which means an algorithmically generated price was locked in.
But surely it's a bug to offer a price below the low season minimum for the busiest week of the year, which should rent for 2.5 times that price? And I had set a Custom Price for that week, which "Smart Pricing" ignored!
The support ambassador said she could see my point. She did a search for comparable properties and verified that mine was the only one. She agreed something had gone wrong, and said she would investigate.
I spoke and chatted with 4 different support ambassadors over 5 days. All were professional, polite, and agreed there had been an inexplicable mistake. At 3am on the 5th day, a supervisor unilaterally closed the case via chat, saying "Smart Pricing is based on the type and location of your listing, the season, demand, and other factors. For instructions on how to turn Smart Pricing on or off, visit our Help Center article. I will be out of the office from Nov 17-18. Should you wish to cancel the reservation or need further assistance please know that we are here with you all throughout your Airbnb journey, please don't hesitate to reach out to us."
I didn't want to cancel because this is clearly a bug and I want Airbnb to fix it, for their own sake as well as mine and my guest. My guest over Christmas is an experienced Airbnb superhost, who agrees it is a bug in Airbnb's platform. She doesn't want to re-book either, so we agreed to go through the support process and get a correction. She hoped for compensation.
22 days later, we still have no resolution. 3 days ago, the support ambassador said the issue would be escalated to the Product Team, but to do that, she had to close the support ticket. She said if I wanted to know the status, I could call them back. I asked her which team is working on the problem. She said it's a secret.
I am not the only host to experience this problem.
The problem is evidenced during periods of peak demand e.g. Xmas-NYE in Australia and New York, Spring Break in Hawaii, Winter in Florida. Hosts report "Smart Pricing" has imposed the low season minimum nightly price or below, instead of a high season price.
https://community.withairbnb.com/t5/Help/Smart-Pricing/td-p/...
That's a bug! Hosts lose confidence in Airbnb's platform because "Smart Pricing" costs them money or administrative overhead at precisely the point when Airbnb should be delivering maximum value.
Surely someone at Airbnb can see the value in fixing this?
An Oculus Quest 2 is 300$ not 400$. Just saying.
The 256gb version is $400. But even if the author had messed that up, or had (like me) bought it in a country with VAT so they paid more for it, does that really matter?
Yes it does, because it’s cheap enough that you should get one! It’s an amazing device :)
Burglaries happen all the time. Even if all the windows are locked, burglaries can happen in all sorts of ways, particularly in free-standing houses. I don't like leaving my laptop or other valuables in my own home. I keep my devices with me when I can, and avoid owning items that burglars would want to steal (watches, jewellery etc).
Another issue with electronic devices and insurance is fraud. Having worked in the travel industry for a long time, I've known of people working in the industry, casually making fraudulent claims on devices just because they felt like an upgrade. Fraud is easy to commit and hard to prove, so the insurers just can't offer much cover, unless you're willing to take out special top-level cover for your devices, which is expensive for just this reason.
It always sucks being robbed, and it's natural to want to blame someone, but I'm not sure what more Airbnb is meant to do in cases like this.