Sudan woke up without Internet(blog.cloudflare.com)
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Sudan woke up without Internet
https://blog.cloudflare.com/sudan-woke-up-without-internet/
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> Sadly though, a lot of Americans and especially people on the far left are not appreciative of the freedom of speech this country has, and continue to squander it.
Can you expand on this? I’d like to understand your view better. How does the far left not appreciate it?
Can you expand on this? I’d like to understand your view better. How does the far left not appreciate it?
Not OP. But from my perspective, there has been a huge amount of silencing of speech for non-Left or non-mainstream opinions. Not always in the form of raw censorship, but a weird kind of endorsement, repetition and tacit-acceptance by institutions of only Left-leaning views, and also fear and bully-like tactics that has the ultimate effect of people self-censoring if they happen to be outside of that seemingly-narrow and "Left"-leaning set of opinions.
There are so many opinions that are downright foot-guns or taboos in any sort of public arena for example. And we don't even notice how we self-censor those opinions, nor do we notice it until we have those opinions/ideas and try to voice them. I'm relatively civil and polite on HN, but I don't dare repeat most of what I express here under my real identity.
There are so many opinions that are downright foot-guns or taboos in any sort of public arena for example. And we don't even notice how we self-censor those opinions, nor do we notice it until we have those opinions/ideas and try to voice them. I'm relatively civil and polite on HN, but I don't dare repeat most of what I express here under my real identity.
The attack on comedians, the insistence on de-platforming folks that say anything outside the mainstream consensus. Cancel culture and the elevation of sensitivity.
It's one thing for one to share their opinion "I don't like this, this is inappropriate", it's different when one is seeking power to shutdown the person they're disagreeing with.
All of this makes people who have a different perspective, who might want to share their own personal experience that doesn't quite fit the narrative, to withhold and play it safe. Which ties back to freedom of speech. I've experienced this myself in my career in large SV tech companies. And my friends in Academia share similar stories and concerns.
It's one thing for one to share their opinion "I don't like this, this is inappropriate", it's different when one is seeking power to shutdown the person they're disagreeing with.
All of this makes people who have a different perspective, who might want to share their own personal experience that doesn't quite fit the narrative, to withhold and play it safe. Which ties back to freedom of speech. I've experienced this myself in my career in large SV tech companies. And my friends in Academia share similar stories and concerns.
Beyond freedom of speech, there are many extreme progressives (not "liberals") who will attack you if they think that your beliefs are "wrong".
You can maybe kind-of almost justify strong restrictions on what someone is allowed to say in public - but no, these people will try to get you fired if they think that you have the wrong thoughts. This is, quite plainly, inexcusable pure malice.
You can maybe kind-of almost justify strong restrictions on what someone is allowed to say in public - but no, these people will try to get you fired if they think that you have the wrong thoughts. This is, quite plainly, inexcusable pure malice.
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People on the extremist fringes, whether it's far left or far right, tend to prefer authoritarianism and thus want to curtail freedom of speech because it is harmful to their political ideology. The more brazen ones seek to curtail freedom of speech while claiming to protect or even increase it.
> Sadly though, a lot of Americans and especially people on the far left are not appreciative of the freedom of speech this country has, and continue to squander it.
I think this is unnecessarily presumptive, and doesn't reflect the US's actual (and tarnished) record of free expression.
I think this is unnecessarily presumptive, and doesn't reflect the US's actual (and tarnished) record of free expression.
>Now that I'm in San Francisco, I can't tell you the libration I feel every single day by being able to do and say whatever I want.
Something doesn't add up in this sentence.
>are not appreciative of the freedom of speech this country has, and continue to squander it.
On one hand. You should be and somewhat happy for them. Because obviously they have never been through life without it. And it is a horror. A seed of fear forever planted inside you brain.
On the other hand.... you sighed. There is no way for them to understand without going through it. Human are damned to continue to repeat the same mistake over and over again. There are just something you cant learn from textbook.
Something doesn't add up in this sentence.
>are not appreciative of the freedom of speech this country has, and continue to squander it.
On one hand. You should be and somewhat happy for them. Because obviously they have never been through life without it. And it is a horror. A seed of fear forever planted inside you brain.
On the other hand.... you sighed. There is no way for them to understand without going through it. Human are damned to continue to repeat the same mistake over and over again. There are just something you cant learn from textbook.
No part of the left-right political spectrum can be said to be the good guys or the bad guys in respect of free expression, especially in the United States. Roughly 20 years ago it was the conservative side doing most of the thought policing and the liberal side defending freedom of speech. The very same right-leaning media that now mocks "Woke" culture was cheerleading for the "Christian right" in the 1990s and labeling anyone opposed to the "War on Terror" as enemies and traitors in the early to mid 2000s.
The sheer hypocrisy of it all is incredible.
The sheer hypocrisy of it all is incredible.
> No part of the left-right political spectrum can be said to be the good guys or the bad guys in respect of free expression, especially in the United States.
Maybe across all time, yes. But parties change. Right now there's a clear enemy of free expression, and it's not the right.
The correct play, of course, is to pressure the party that's currently on the anti-free-expression side to back down - even (especially) if that's your "own" party (not like the two major US political parties are very representative of their ostensible constituents) - and that's what the GP is doing.
(you can do this without condemning the ideals of the party as uniformly bad - which is something that a lot of people don't get - attacking a party is not the same as attacking its ideals!)
Maybe across all time, yes. But parties change. Right now there's a clear enemy of free expression, and it's not the right.
The correct play, of course, is to pressure the party that's currently on the anti-free-expression side to back down - even (especially) if that's your "own" party (not like the two major US political parties are very representative of their ostensible constituents) - and that's what the GP is doing.
(you can do this without condemning the ideals of the party as uniformly bad - which is something that a lot of people don't get - attacking a party is not the same as attacking its ideals!)
> Maybe across all time, yes. But parties change. Right now there's a clear enemy of free expression, and it's not the right.
Are you sure about that[1][2][3]? People on the left side of the aisle seem to be invested chiefly in social shame; the right side is actively using the power of the state to control public expression and educational content. Equivocation between the two feels like false balance.
[1]: https://apnews.com/article/florida-race-and-ethnicity-govern...
[2]: https://www.aclu.org/legal-document/bert-v-o-connor-complain...
[3]: https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/sta...
Are you sure about that[1][2][3]? People on the left side of the aisle seem to be invested chiefly in social shame; the right side is actively using the power of the state to control public expression and educational content. Equivocation between the two feels like false balance.
[1]: https://apnews.com/article/florida-race-and-ethnicity-govern...
[2]: https://www.aclu.org/legal-document/bert-v-o-connor-complain...
[3]: https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/sta...
> People on the left side of the aisle seem to be invested chiefly in social shame; the right side is actively using the power of the state to control public expression and educational content.
Conversely, even without me digging up any references of the progressive politicians also using the power of government to suppress free speech, it seems like you're making a false distinction.
Progressives are using their power to try to get people fired and unemployable (which is somewhat disingenuous to call "social shame"). When you can make someone unemployable in most of an industry, there's little difference between that and using the government directly. Furthermore, progressives use large tech companies (with power comparable to the state in some respects) to censor speech on their de-facto-town-square social media platforms.
Conversely, even without me digging up any references of the progressive politicians also using the power of government to suppress free speech, it seems like you're making a false distinction.
Progressives are using their power to try to get people fired and unemployable (which is somewhat disingenuous to call "social shame"). When you can make someone unemployable in most of an industry, there's little difference between that and using the government directly. Furthermore, progressives use large tech companies (with power comparable to the state in some respects) to censor speech on their de-facto-town-square social media platforms.
If you want to regulate large technology companies, just say that. You'll find that plenty of people agree with you. Trying to contort private expression into state expression isn't going to get you very far, either in terms of convincing others or legal action.
(FWIW: conflating "progressive" and "left" belies a fundamental misunderstanding of left-of-center politics. It's a misunderstanding that you're going to want to correct if you want people to entertain your positions.)
(FWIW: conflating "progressive" and "left" belies a fundamental misunderstanding of left-of-center politics. It's a misunderstanding that you're going to want to correct if you want people to entertain your positions.)
In my view the prominent politicians and media personalities of both sides shamelessly practice this demagoguery and resort to any means of power to have their way, be it state authority or social pressure. I doubt most of them have any serious conviction in the positions they espouse. Pandering to the desires and prejudices of audiences is an effective tactic for gaining power or just earning a good living. The outcome for the cause du jour is of little importance. What counts is winning the election or growing & maintaining an audience.
I don't have any particularly nice things to say about American politicians from either party. But I don't think we ought to conflate social pressures with top-down policing of speech. The former is a cultural challenge; the latter is a material erosion of civil liberties.
Trying to imagine what this would be like. There are so many things we take for granted, have never had to manage without, and build our lives on top of, without thinking about how easily they could just not be there one day.
Food in the supermarket, water, telephone service...
And imagine that they go away and there's nothing you can do about it. No-one to complain to. What do you even do?
Yes, obviously Internet isn't the worst of the set to lose. But it's a way in to thinking about the feeling that something you've utterly relied on can just ... stop.
Food in the supermarket, water, telephone service...
And imagine that they go away and there's nothing you can do about it. No-one to complain to. What do you even do?
Yes, obviously Internet isn't the worst of the set to lose. But it's a way in to thinking about the feeling that something you've utterly relied on can just ... stop.
Hopefully learn that getting everything to rely on an Internet connection was the dumbest thing to happen this century.
Brb, my notepad needs to update.
Brb, my notepad needs to update.
This is why everyone should have a bugout bag and possibly radio training. This isn't some prepper crap, I wager 99% of people simply have no way of surviving more than a few days without core services.
The internet failing kinda sucks, but thats what a charged kindle is for.
The internet failing kinda sucks, but thats what a charged kindle is for.
Why would you need to bugout when core services are down? Wouldn't a well stocked pantry and / or cold cellar be more appropriate? You don't have to leave your home with a backpack just because the supermarket is empty.
It depends on the nature of the event and the area you live in. Preppers who plan on "bugging out" are usually concerned with local unrest following the loss of services. They would also (hopefully) already have a destination in mind rather simply going "innawoods". Provided you have a safe community, having a reasonable stockpile of basic supplies and neighbors you can trust, remaining in place is usually a better option. A firearm or two would also be advisable in either case.
> This is why everyone should have a bugout bag and possibly radio training.
I don't know about you, but for me the vast majority of possible disaster situations would not include fleeing my home and city.
Local disaster (e.g. fire) would flee my home but use city services. Regional disaster (e.g. blizzard, civil unrest) would involve staying at home for the protection / amenities it provides.
Personally, I think fleeing to the wilderness is an anti-pattern and I have not seen a situation for me that would necessitate it besides the end of the world as we know it (e.g. nuclear war), but IMO that moves into "some prepper crap" territory.
If you live in a region with seismic activity, earthquake preparedness might necessitate a bugout bag, but that's hardly 'everyone'.
I don't know about you, but for me the vast majority of possible disaster situations would not include fleeing my home and city.
Local disaster (e.g. fire) would flee my home but use city services. Regional disaster (e.g. blizzard, civil unrest) would involve staying at home for the protection / amenities it provides.
Personally, I think fleeing to the wilderness is an anti-pattern and I have not seen a situation for me that would necessitate it besides the end of the world as we know it (e.g. nuclear war), but IMO that moves into "some prepper crap" territory.
If you live in a region with seismic activity, earthquake preparedness might necessitate a bugout bag, but that's hardly 'everyone'.
Flood/Hurricanes are a great example of regional disasters where large numbers have to leave their homes. Your region may not be susceptible to these events, though.
Civil Unrest/War can also lead to folks fleeing their homes- see the massive numbers of refugees fleeing warzones. Staying in your home in such a situation may not be the wisest course of action.
Earthquakes as you mentioned can be another cause- also, tornados- but tornadoes are usually fairly localized.
Civil Unrest/War can also lead to folks fleeing their homes- see the massive numbers of refugees fleeing warzones. Staying in your home in such a situation may not be the wisest course of action.
Earthquakes as you mentioned can be another cause- also, tornados- but tornadoes are usually fairly localized.
The point of the bugout bag, from my understanding, is to assist in an unexpected and sudden departure from home. Earthquakes certainly fit the bill, I hadn't considered tornadoes but sure I can see that.
I don't know how many of the other ones realistically call for a bugout bag. Big storms have days advance warning - you don't need to be ready to leave at a moments notice, you need to decide days beforehand whether you're evacuating or boarding up your windows. Most civil unrest does not warrant evacuation in the United States, and if it got to that point, it would probably not be a sudden and unexpected departure.
Maybe I should clarify: In my previous post I wasn't so much against the idea that someone should need to possibly evacuate, as that you need to prepare to make a sudden and unexpected evacuation from society as a whole (like a "take the bugout bag and make a run to the woods" situation)
I don't know how many of the other ones realistically call for a bugout bag. Big storms have days advance warning - you don't need to be ready to leave at a moments notice, you need to decide days beforehand whether you're evacuating or boarding up your windows. Most civil unrest does not warrant evacuation in the United States, and if it got to that point, it would probably not be a sudden and unexpected departure.
Maybe I should clarify: In my previous post I wasn't so much against the idea that someone should need to possibly evacuate, as that you need to prepare to make a sudden and unexpected evacuation from society as a whole (like a "take the bugout bag and make a run to the woods" situation)
Okay, if that is what you mean by a bugout bag... I think many ordinary folks just need a 72 hour bag with basic essentials to get them through until they can get more permanent help. Your right, bugging out of society as a whole isn't really practical for most people.
As for big storms- ideally, yeah, but it seems that a lot of folks try to ride it out, it ends up being worse than they expected, they get flooded out, and now have to be evacuated in a hurry.
As for big storms- ideally, yeah, but it seems that a lot of folks try to ride it out, it ends up being worse than they expected, they get flooded out, and now have to be evacuated in a hurry.
>And imagine that they go away and there's nothing you can do about it.
This strikes me as a rather strange way of looking at it.
The only way there's nothing I can do about it is if I'm dead or seriously injured, and in that case there really is nothing I can do about it, so why worry? :-)
The shift from "there's no Internet/food/water" to "let's start making progress toward resolving this" is easy to make in that moment, and there are plenty of people who have the skills and patience to make it happen. It might take longer than we all might like, but that's fine. As long as we're alive, there's always something to work toward, and always the ability to make some progress.
This strikes me as a rather strange way of looking at it.
The only way there's nothing I can do about it is if I'm dead or seriously injured, and in that case there really is nothing I can do about it, so why worry? :-)
The shift from "there's no Internet/food/water" to "let's start making progress toward resolving this" is easy to make in that moment, and there are plenty of people who have the skills and patience to make it happen. It might take longer than we all might like, but that's fine. As long as we're alive, there's always something to work toward, and always the ability to make some progress.
I just went without seeing the Internet for 8 years, being held in a county jail. The worst bit was not being able to settle an argument by calling up Wikipedia.
This is why radio is so important, for moments like this, where all the standard ways of communication are shut down.
Yes! Mesh networks with WiFi radios are particularly interesting as there is prior art[0] and also uses unlicensed spectrum so it's very easy to join the existing communities. Simply see (literally) who you have a line-of-sight to, setup your antenna, start peering and you're connected!
I used to run the following node on Guifi: https://guifi.net/node/102135
It had direct line-of-sight to a node 3.8 KMs away, latency was excellent all the way to Barcelona via Guifi (think it was under 5ms) and would do again if I move to a place with higher elevation.
- [0] Guifi(https://guifi.net/), Freifunk(https://freifunk.net/), NYC Mesh(https://www.nycmesh.net/) and more
I used to run the following node on Guifi: https://guifi.net/node/102135
It had direct line-of-sight to a node 3.8 KMs away, latency was excellent all the way to Barcelona via Guifi (think it was under 5ms) and would do again if I move to a place with higher elevation.
- [0] Guifi(https://guifi.net/), Freifunk(https://freifunk.net/), NYC Mesh(https://www.nycmesh.net/) and more
Yes, HAM radio that can be used as an alternative. Here are some resources:
https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:HAM_Radio
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMPRNet
https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:HAM_Radio
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMPRNet
"Ham" isn't an acronym and shouldn't be written in all caps.
Using ham radio as an internet replacement (even for basic communication) isn't exactly trivial though. I have all the necessary bits lying around, and years of experience with the topic, and it would still take me quite a bit of fiddling to get a functional AX.25 link up and running (and that's just my end of it).
Using ham radio as an internet replacement (even for basic communication) isn't exactly trivial though. I have all the necessary bits lying around, and years of experience with the topic, and it would still take me quite a bit of fiddling to get a functional AX.25 link up and running (and that's just my end of it).
I was going to fire back and nitpick your use of lower-case Internet, but I see the tide has changed and I'm now on the losing side of history:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalization_of_Internet
I wouldn’t really consider HAM/ham to be a nitpick though… If I capitalized a random WORD in a sentence, wouldn’t that look odd?
Ham radio, for which you need a license issued by the government, the very same government which took down the internet.
> Ham radio, for which you need a license issued by the government, the very same government which took down the internet.
But as the government is now the enemy, why would somebody refrain from operating without a license? And managing from being found, of course. OTOH, hams from other countries may refuse to communicate with unlicensed users, splitting the network...
But as the government is now the enemy, why would somebody refrain from operating without a license? And managing from being found, of course. OTOH, hams from other countries may refuse to communicate with unlicensed users, splitting the network...
HN seems to forget about this in HAM threads. Obviously the odds of losing internet access suddenly and for extended periods of time seems pretty unlikely in the US, but a few days ago many in Sudan probably thought the same. Radio requires no additional infrastructure between you and the receiver, receivers can be improvised by someone with an undergraduate knowledge of electronics, and HF communications can reach literally across the planet. Yes the internet is superior for the overwhelming majority of use cases, but if it's not available, radio is a very important fallback.
100% agree. One of my neighbors is a big Ham radio guy and it’s reassuring to know that.
Yeah, good old unjammable radio.
Electronic warfare isn't unbeatable - good operating practice, flexibility, and persistence can still allow communications to get through in a contested spectrum.
It’s a lot harder to jam (multiple) radio frequencies than it is to cut off (even physically) a smaller number of internet uplinks. And if transmissions start hopping around to different frequencies, then you have to keep actively jamming them. Cutting off internet access is (largely) a one-time only situation.
See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28985981 from yesterday
Ah yes, the good ol' master internet killer switch. This happened before in Egypt during Jan. 2011.
Poor Sudan. This coup means its process of democratisation is back to square one. Awful news. The West should take its fair share of responsibility though. The structural adjustments that the IMF and World Bank were demanding from the new government were going to be brutal for Sudanese society, and it's no surprise that people were out protesting in force, which lead to the military taking back control on the basis of imposing stability and security.
Think about those who are entrepreneurs that are solely dependent on internet connection. It's hard for them as this is their way of living.
did the insurrectionist do it or was it the former government?
The army, which is a complicated equation of both.
Needless to say, when that happened, I simply lived down in Tahrir square since my brother was already there and I had no other way of checking on him.
Now that I'm in San Francisco, I can't tell you the libration I feel every single day by being able to do and say whatever I want. By being able to think, really think.
Sadly though, a lot of Americans and especially people on the far left are not appreciative of the freedom of speech this country has, and continue to squander it.