Snapdragon X70(qualcomm.com)
qualcomm.com
Snapdragon X70
https://www.qualcomm.com/news/releases/2022/02/28/new-snapdragon-x70-modem-rf-harnesses-worlds-first-5g-ai-processor-industry
21 コメント
Stuff like locating stuff for beamforming or MIMO has a non-zero cost, and newer standards are getting even more complex trying to drag signal out of noise and error correction and stuff.
The first is exactly the sort of thing where a cheaper "Good Enough Estimate" may be a great solution - which is what a fair bit of "AI" hardware does today. Though I don't know if firing up a separate AI block instead of an integrated to the radio "hardware" solution would be better, but it may be there's some crossover of techniques that can help.
The first is exactly the sort of thing where a cheaper "Good Enough Estimate" may be a great solution - which is what a fair bit of "AI" hardware does today. Though I don't know if firing up a separate AI block instead of an integrated to the radio "hardware" solution would be better, but it may be there's some crossover of techniques that can help.
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They use the AI buzzword a WHOLE lot, and don't explain at any point what they mean or how the model (presumably) was trained, or on what data sets, or really anything.
It's just a vacuous statement at this point.
It's just a vacuous statement at this point.
I am all for being sceptical to corporate PR, but Nvidia and AMD have already proven that AI can be applied with excellent results.
How it's done is a business secret, I would be surprised if they told us much more.
How it's done is a business secret, I would be surprised if they told us much more.
Pick the best number is hard when the “number” is something like what direction to beamform in. That’s a complex function of the processors physical surroundings. It would not surprise me if an AI trained on a lot of real world data does better than a hand tuned algorithm in the average case.
>It would not surprise me if an AI trained on a lot of real world data does better than a hand tuned algorithm in the average case.
I have never read a single comment that appreciate the complexity of 3GPP modem design. So this may be the first one in ten plus years.
Designing a working 4G / 5G modem is not hard. Designing one that is as good as Qualcomm and works in thousands of edges cases in hundreds of different carrier configuration all around the world is god damn hard.
Massive-MIMO on FDD in itself is complicated enough. One could argue we should all switch to TDD, but we dont have that luxury and it is not always a win. Carrier aggregation with mmWave beamforming since Qualcomm is somehow still keen on getting it done.
And this is just on the client side. Most if not all on HN have very little to no appreciation on the complexity of mobile network and 5G. No wonder why sometimes you hear engineers working in telecom equipment industry are rather pissed about Tech industry in general.
I have never read a single comment that appreciate the complexity of 3GPP modem design. So this may be the first one in ten plus years.
Designing a working 4G / 5G modem is not hard. Designing one that is as good as Qualcomm and works in thousands of edges cases in hundreds of different carrier configuration all around the world is god damn hard.
Massive-MIMO on FDD in itself is complicated enough. One could argue we should all switch to TDD, but we dont have that luxury and it is not always a win. Carrier aggregation with mmWave beamforming since Qualcomm is somehow still keen on getting it done.
And this is just on the client side. Most if not all on HN have very little to no appreciation on the complexity of mobile network and 5G. No wonder why sometimes you hear engineers working in telecom equipment industry are rather pissed about Tech industry in general.
Absolutely! I worked on 5G in a non-engineering role for a few months and was totally blown away by the amount of complexity in modern modems. Also amazed by how many opportunities for improvement those engineers found/how far away we are from a “perfect” system, especially with Wi-Fi.
I would be, given that "AI" hasn't really performed very well on any of the problems we have thrown at it thusfar. Perhaps speech generation is the best fit, but outside of a small smidgen of realms "AI" is not really worth the cost compared to simpler strategies that not only have higher accuracy but a more predictable mode of failure that can be designed around and ameliorated.
https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/07/30/1030329/machine-...
https://www.wsj.com/articles/walmart-shelves-plan-to-have-ro...
https://medium.com/starsky-robotics-blog/the-end-of-starsky-...
https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/07/30/1030329/machine-...
https://www.wsj.com/articles/walmart-shelves-plan-to-have-ro...
https://medium.com/starsky-robotics-blog/the-end-of-starsky-...
That stood out to me as well. I feel it using AI for simple applications like these is a bit unnecessary.
If it saves significant power by getting a "good enough" answer over the energy needed to get the exact answer, it could be very practical.
Collecting data and doing calculations on it takes time and the environment is often not static.
Considering the absurd levels of heat generation from Qualcomm chips of late, that page is not encouraging. Packing unnecessary features into their chips is why my Snapdragon 888 phone with a 4500mAh battery gets the same screen-on time as my Snapdragon 845 phone with a 3300mAh battery.
Depends on how well integrated and power gated those "Unnecessary" features are - it may be of functionally zero cost when running the "same" use case, while allowing significant improvements in newly-accelerated use cases.
If it's loosely integrated (e.g. doesn't need super high bus access) it's not even as if it'll affect stuff like the clock tree or bus complexity much either.
If it's loosely integrated (e.g. doesn't need super high bus access) it's not even as if it'll affect stuff like the clock tree or bus complexity much either.
Same screen size? Same screen brightness? Same screen resolution?
I'd be surprised if the new CPU would take that much power, especially since for most use cases the CPU is mostly idle.
I'd be surprised if the new CPU would take that much power, especially since for most use cases the CPU is mostly idle.
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The SD845 phone has a larger screen. Galaxy S21+ and Oneplus 6. Notebookcheck's wi-fi browsing battery runtime tests set the brightness at 150 nits. Oneplus 6 gets 12hr42min, S21+ gets 10hr51min. At minimum brightness they get 30:06 and 29:40, respectively. All this despite the fact the Oneplus 6 has a 3300mAh battery and a 115.4cm^2 screen and the S21+ has a 4800mAh battery and a 108.4cm^2 screen. It's pathetic.
I wonder how much of that is Samsung's OS+Software. I had the top of the line Samsung Note (forget which generation). Felt slow, laggy, unpleasant to use, and even the home button had a very noticeable lag to it.
Was a pain to root, had to jump through a few hoops, but did manage to get Cyanogen on there. The result felt WAY better, snappy, better scrolling, much less aggressive at killing apps, faster app switching, minimal lag for the home button, and generally just a pleasure to use. I mentioned this in various forums and the theory was that Samsung was optimizing for benchmarks instead of multitasking. Even things like switching apps to use maps or contacts during a call would cause whatever app you were using to be killed. I returned the Samsung Note to stock before selling it, and checked, and sure enough it felt sluggish and even with just 2-3 apps going when I switched I'd get a splash screen as the app relaunched after being killed.
I "upgraded" to a pixel, that had less ram and CPU, and it felt WAY better than the stock Samsung Note. I do wonder if your results are related to the Samsung software being optimized for benchmarks (i.e. running the clock high, killing off anything that's not fullscreen currently, etc) instead of interactive use. Generally the OnePlus phones seem to be closer to pure android than Samsung from what I can tell.
Was a pain to root, had to jump through a few hoops, but did manage to get Cyanogen on there. The result felt WAY better, snappy, better scrolling, much less aggressive at killing apps, faster app switching, minimal lag for the home button, and generally just a pleasure to use. I mentioned this in various forums and the theory was that Samsung was optimizing for benchmarks instead of multitasking. Even things like switching apps to use maps or contacts during a call would cause whatever app you were using to be killed. I returned the Samsung Note to stock before selling it, and checked, and sure enough it felt sluggish and even with just 2-3 apps going when I switched I'd get a splash screen as the app relaunched after being killed.
I "upgraded" to a pixel, that had less ram and CPU, and it felt WAY better than the stock Samsung Note. I do wonder if your results are related to the Samsung software being optimized for benchmarks (i.e. running the clock high, killing off anything that's not fullscreen currently, etc) instead of interactive use. Generally the OnePlus phones seem to be closer to pure android than Samsung from what I can tell.
The oneplus 9 has a SD888 and a 4500mAh battery. Its websurfing test was 14 hours. Seven percent longer surfing than the OP6 with a 36% larger battery. The SD888 is a bad chip. All evidence points to the 8 gen 1 as also being a bad chip. Qualcomm's only saving grace is that the Exynos 2200 isn't a bad chip; it's an atrocious chip.
The Exynos chip was why I switched to an OnePlus 9 pro rather than go with Samsung for my last mobile upgrade. I felt the Exynos wasn't all that good. Still happy I made the right decision even if I am still waiting for the oxygenOS 12 upgrade:-D
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some graph optimization, i guess. but channel, antenna tuning, network selection? what, isnt this all simple closed form "pick the best number"?
if its just flexing its ability to be used as edge compute as well thats cool too