Ads Are Killing Podcasting(podcasts.rip)
podcasts.rip
Ads Are Killing Podcasting
https://podcasts.rip/
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I listen to podcasts on my morning and evening commute (in my car). I can skip forward 30 seconds, or back 10 seconds with a click of a button, so I'm baffled why everyone else isn't doing the same??? As I'm not going to buy the thing that is being advertised I don't feel guilty - it's not like anyone is losing out.
I have more than once bought stuff specifically from the ads. I'm wearing some MeUndies socks, right now, and they're good. I really liked the hot sauce subscription I heard about on the ad. And because I use the code they know which podcasts brought me to them.
Companies target more than just people with the most money. Walmart and Rolex for example target different customers with different priorities.
So even if you completely lost the top 5% or even 20% of incomes, what remains is plenty valuable to many companies.
So even if you completely lost the top 5% or even 20% of incomes, what remains is plenty valuable to many companies.
There are tons of podcasts out there made by people with no extrinsic motivation. They aren’t looking for fame or fortune. They just like making podcasts, and do so for free. Usually Creative Commons Licensed. Yes, I am one of those people who makes a podcast that way.
The problem is you will never find our podcasts on the front pages of the directories like Apple or Spotify, but we are there if you search hard enough. If you are tired of ads, look harder.
The problem is you will never find our podcasts on the front pages of the directories like Apple or Spotify, but we are there if you search hard enough. If you are tired of ads, look harder.
Imagine if a podcaster with 21 million subscribers distributed his videos over BitTorrent as a proof of concept, e.g., own tracker, magnet links, no DHT, download not streamed (watchable offline anywhere, anytime)
Big Tech wants the public, specifically their employees, investors and followers, to believe that there is no alternative to the use of third party intermediaries with data centers and billions in cash flow
With this PoC, the ISP makes money from internet subscriptions, the hosting company makes money from hosting trackers, but there's not _necessarily_ a business model for the podcaster. It is up to the podcaster (not a middleman^1) whether to "monetise" their work. For example, it is within the sole discretion of the podcaster, not the middleman, how the podcaster's work is used. If the podcaster wants to use their reach to promote or sell something to the audience, then that's an option, but not a requirement
Under Big Tech "feudalism", where access to the podcaster's (sharecropper's) work is intermediated by a third party, the podcaster is required to allow the intermediary to perform data collection, surveillance and advertising services with respect the podcaster's audience
The third party. not the podcaster, gets to choose the advertisers. The podcaster generally has no negotiating power. The deal is "take it or leave it"
There may also be issues around "censorship" or at least "discoverability" (as noted in parent comment) as the third party mediates access to the podcaster's work in furtherance of its own business goals, which may not always align with the goals of the podcaster. For example, the podcaster might have non-commercial goals as in the parent comment
I'm not sure it's possible to argue against a hypothetical PoC, e.g., "Don't try it", "It will never work", "It's been done before and it failed", etc. but no doubt HN replies may try
It stands to reason that the only effective argument against a specific PoC, real or hypothetical, would be for the PoC to be executed and then to fail
Big Tech wants the public, specifically their employees, investors and followers, to believe that there is no alternative to the use of third party intermediaries with data centers and billions in cash flow
With this PoC, the ISP makes money from internet subscriptions, the hosting company makes money from hosting trackers, but there's not _necessarily_ a business model for the podcaster. It is up to the podcaster (not a middleman^1) whether to "monetise" their work. For example, it is within the sole discretion of the podcaster, not the middleman, how the podcaster's work is used. If the podcaster wants to use their reach to promote or sell something to the audience, then that's an option, but not a requirement
Under Big Tech "feudalism", where access to the podcaster's (sharecropper's) work is intermediated by a third party, the podcaster is required to allow the intermediary to perform data collection, surveillance and advertising services with respect the podcaster's audience
The third party. not the podcaster, gets to choose the advertisers. The podcaster generally has no negotiating power. The deal is "take it or leave it"
There may also be issues around "censorship" or at least "discoverability" (as noted in parent comment) as the third party mediates access to the podcaster's work in furtherance of its own business goals, which may not always align with the goals of the podcaster. For example, the podcaster might have non-commercial goals as in the parent comment
I'm not sure it's possible to argue against a hypothetical PoC, e.g., "Don't try it", "It will never work", "It's been done before and it failed", etc. but no doubt HN replies may try
It stands to reason that the only effective argument against a specific PoC, real or hypothetical, would be for the PoC to be executed and then to fail
Podcasts (and all other content) are supported one of three ways:
- Ads
- Subs
- Leadgen for some other business
You get to pick your own poison.
- Ads
- Subs
- Leadgen for some other business
You get to pick your own poison.
The main point of the site isn’t that Ads are bad. It’s that too many Ads end up driving away listeners, and are therefore self-defeating. There’s an acceptable ratio of ads to content (10% airtime or less).
That’s a great point, and I’ll respond to that right after a word from this post’s sponsor: SpamCo.
There is a set of hobby casts in small niches.
Also in some countries you got public radio stations producing podcasts (even podcast first formats not played on radio) - while that might Fall under subscription, while not being a subscription on anything specific.
Also in some countries you got public radio stations producing podcasts (even podcast first formats not played on radio) - while that might Fall under subscription, while not being a subscription on anything specific.
There is, but I’ve also seen some of my favorite hobby casts either get retroactively crammed full of ads or just get taken down entirely because, no thanks to the glut of bot traffic we seem to have nowadays, hosting fees grew to be untenable for a hobby project.
Yes, we have numerous fantastic podcasts in France, from the national radios (ads-free).
The coverage of topics is very good in some areas (non-tech) and so so in tech
The coverage of topics is very good in some areas (non-tech) and so so in tech
Maybe all podcasters should learn by the French example, and simply threaten people to give them money, whether they are listeners or not? Threaten them with prison if they don't pay? Joe Rogan could show up at your door and demand that you give him money for his podcast.
By not having this mentality, we have high quality content that you are free to listen to.
I am not interested in philosophy but I am glad that my money is used to create philosophy content that raises the overall culture in the country.
You should try that.
I am not interested in philosophy but I am glad that my money is used to create philosophy content that raises the overall culture in the country.
You should try that.
You are right, there is a fourth category of public service/taxation.
I haven't listened to podcasts in years, but used to enjoy them. I would've paid for a YouTube premium-esque subscription to skip ads on all the podcasts on my podcast app of choice. I'd want the podcast to get a cut from that subscription that would make it worth it, in the same way YouTube premium makes it worth me not seeing ads.
(I use Sponsorblock on YouTube too since there are platform ads and then sponsors baked into the videos.)
(I use Sponsorblock on YouTube too since there are platform ads and then sponsors baked into the videos.)
What are the ones spreading blatant disinfornation financed by?
state sponsored and "wealthy benefactor" are definitely two more sources
Ads for protein powders, scam gold coins, Bitcoin scams, scam "doomsday" equipment ... there is a whole industry around such products for people falling for disinformation.
And by foreign state actors.
And by foreign state actors.
Don’t forget extremely expensive vitamins!
The only platform where I consume podcasts anymore is YouTube, because some (but not all) podcast creators will remove their embedding advertising on the YouTube release of their show, but not Spotify/Apple/etc. And, YouTube Premium gets rid of the platform ads. Lex is one show that does this. And, realistically, I've dropped any podcasts that don't even do this.
There are some podcasters that release ad-free versions on Patreon or similar platforms; but the listening experience on those platforms is so bad that while I would be fully supportive of the concept of direct payment to remove ads, the only platform that functionally supports this at this time is YouTube.
There are some podcasters that release ad-free versions on Patreon or similar platforms; but the listening experience on those platforms is so bad that while I would be fully supportive of the concept of direct payment to remove ads, the only platform that functionally supports this at this time is YouTube.
I'm not sure what features people consider important, as I've never used Spotify or other common podcast apps, but I've had a good experience getting podcasts through Patreon and then adding them to AntennaPod through their rss feed.
Youtube + the sponsor block plugin is my goto when it's an option.
I was going to agree with this sentiment until I realized that I listen to a few podcasts put out by individuals who spend a lot of time producing content. For me, it is pod quality vs. how many ads.
I just wish I could still download all podcasts without needing an Apple or Google account to do so.
What happened to podcast RSS feeds? Many are still available but it certainly isn't universal like in the past.
What happened to podcast RSS feeds? Many are still available but it certainly isn't universal like in the past.
Ads again, I would guess. RSS feeds maybe don’t monetize as well because you can’t load a simple MP3 file up with trackers to verify that you are, e.g., not fast forwarding through the ads. Or make the ads unskippable. That sort of thing.
Which podcasts aren't available in the traditional feed?
The Race To Alaska podcast is only available on YouTube, Apple, and Spotify this year
I can understand supporting a podcast by having the host read ads themselves, but dynamically inserted ads in audio podcasts are the worst. If you don't live in the USA, the number of advertisers is limited, so you end up with 1 to 3 different ads (mostly for other podcasts!) playing over and over on every episode for weeks, it's infuriating.
Using a VPN I get ads in languages I don't understand, makes them much more bearable when I'm not in a position to tap the skip ahead icon.
And how dead would podcasts be if the creators couldn't be paid for their work?
We know the answer to this because we’ve seen it. 20 years ago very very few podcasters were trying to monetize. The current ad infrastructure didn’t exist yet. Patreon didn’t exist yet. If people did anything they just had a PayPal donation link on the website.
It was smaller, but far from dead. More of a grassroots hobbyist phenomenon. Production quality was lower, but in some respects content quality was better because nerds nerding out without worrying about whether whatever they’re doing will attract enough listeners meant there was an incredible diversity of voices, perspectives and subject matter.
It was smaller, but far from dead. More of a grassroots hobbyist phenomenon. Production quality was lower, but in some respects content quality was better because nerds nerding out without worrying about whether whatever they’re doing will attract enough listeners meant there was an incredible diversity of voices, perspectives and subject matter.
20 years ago the entire Internet was "nerds nerding out". The world has moved on, and to return to that is to return to an Internet where only people who are already economically comfortable and with a lot of spare time to boot are allowed to have a voice.
Serious podcasters need to treat it like a full time job, so they need to get their income from somewhere.
Serious podcasters need to treat it like a full time job, so they need to get their income from somewhere.
AI slop, or on a quality level with it.
For making such bold claims in a supposedly data-driven way the data is very flimsy and badly cited. The citations are not even discoverable via the stated names and contents possibly hallucinated.
If this were an undergrad essay it would be failed.
For making such bold claims in a supposedly data-driven way the data is very flimsy and badly cited. The citations are not even discoverable via the stated names and contents possibly hallucinated.
If this were an undergrad essay it would be failed.
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> YouTube now dominates podcast discovery.
This may be the part I like least. YouTube, and thus Google, have way too much power.
This may be the part I like least. YouTube, and thus Google, have way too much power.
well technically peertube exists & I feel like there must be some easy way of deployment of them as well from what I can think of.
also am not familiar but I think that a lemmy community can be created with podcasts where people can share their podcasts or a mastodon/pixelfed community too.
federated options exists but the people there just don't exist or try to use it in this way.
Maybe a federated instance about podcasting (and a domain name related to it) can be established to become a de-facto (maybe non profit/donation running service) too.
I think that it could scale really a lot on OVH dedicated servers or Hetzner auction boxes and run on quite a substantially few amount of dollars for the infra that the google/youtube monopolistic power can go away.
also am not familiar but I think that a lemmy community can be created with podcasts where people can share their podcasts or a mastodon/pixelfed community too.
federated options exists but the people there just don't exist or try to use it in this way.
Maybe a federated instance about podcasting (and a domain name related to it) can be established to become a de-facto (maybe non profit/donation running service) too.
I think that it could scale really a lot on OVH dedicated servers or Hetzner auction boxes and run on quite a substantially few amount of dollars for the infra that the google/youtube monopolistic power can go away.
Is anyone surprised that advertisers damage yet another thing they touch?
I actually feel a tiny bit guilty about that. The ads are why the podcasts exist. Too many might drive away listeners, but too few drives away podcasters. I'm kinda baffled that the economy of it works at all.
For a bunch of them I pay for the ad free version, though I'm curious about the economics of that. As someone with enough money to opt out, I'm exactly the person the advertisers want to reach.