> if a private business with all the incentive in the world can't figure out how to lower healthcare costs
What if their incentives aren't to lower cost? Insurance companies make more when the obfusicate pricing and payout less. That's the opposite of incentive, it's a way to cover up your profits.
> Everyone that proposes a single payer can't explain who makes less money.
If you think the healthcare industry is just doctor-insurance-you, then you're nuts. Look up pharmacy benefit managers. They're basically third parties that are in place to jack up prices.
> Even if you're able to do everything the health insurance company does and capture 100% of their margin with equal efficiency, you'll capture a profit margin of around 2-6%.
Insurance companies have had their profits capped via the ACA for more than a decade now. Where they're making their money is by using more third parties in the middle to jack up pricing and increase costs so that A) their 2-6% is bigger, and B) their "investments" in the third parties are not regulated by the ACA so they can get their massive profits their.
> The only argument I hear is "other countries do it", which is just unpersuasive. It's not a serious argument. Propose something better
Its a very serious argument, you're just happy to dismiss it for some reason. If the entire developed world uses a different system than us, gets better results and for less money, then you'd have to be insane to insist that mimic those systems is not a serious alternative.
Competition based on benefits really comes in at the low end and the top end of employment.
If you're a tradesperson, just having insurance coverage is a big thing. It doesn't matter if it's not great, it's better than nothing. Leaving a job with insurance for one without insurance is likely going to cost you thousands of dollars out of pocket for the same coverage.
At the top end, companies will have plans that cover so many things at very high percentages, meaning that your out of pocket for health insurance will be surprisingly small. Less competitive companies simply can't offer that.
It's only in the middle where the details of a plan matter, and those are going to be the hardest details to find.
I completely agree. While it's counter intuitive, many businesses want to maintain control of employee's healthcare. Some companies look at it as a way to compete by offering better benefits than their competitors. A lot of companies like controlling healthcare because it keeps employees tied to their employer. If you temporarily lose your insurance when you switch a job, all of the sudden switching doesn't look as good. When you get to really larger companies, then they have the ability to self-insure, which means they can control the costs a hell of a lot more.
Of course, since many companies prefer less regulation, the last thing they'd want to do is hand over the keys to what they do for the healthcare for their employees over to the government. With things how they are now, they can always cut or pair back their plans if they want to cut costs. That lever would be gone with single payer.
Like many things, the system is set up to benefit those in charge rather than those who it's meant to serve. You can look just about anywhere outside the US and see that universal healthcare is a much better system, but better for who? Not much of a benefit for those who make the decisions, so we keep the flawed system we have.
This. I think there are so many changes that I'd like to make, but a lot of them stem from switching from everything being public and out there to being private and with restricted access. I would only hope that assuming things would be untrusted from the beginning would lead to a more securely designed web from day one. I'm sure that's wishful thinking, but still.
What if their incentives aren't to lower cost? Insurance companies make more when the obfusicate pricing and payout less. That's the opposite of incentive, it's a way to cover up your profits.
> Everyone that proposes a single payer can't explain who makes less money.
If you think the healthcare industry is just doctor-insurance-you, then you're nuts. Look up pharmacy benefit managers. They're basically third parties that are in place to jack up prices.
> Even if you're able to do everything the health insurance company does and capture 100% of their margin with equal efficiency, you'll capture a profit margin of around 2-6%.
Insurance companies have had their profits capped via the ACA for more than a decade now. Where they're making their money is by using more third parties in the middle to jack up pricing and increase costs so that A) their 2-6% is bigger, and B) their "investments" in the third parties are not regulated by the ACA so they can get their massive profits their.
> The only argument I hear is "other countries do it", which is just unpersuasive. It's not a serious argument. Propose something better
Its a very serious argument, you're just happy to dismiss it for some reason. If the entire developed world uses a different system than us, gets better results and for less money, then you'd have to be insane to insist that mimic those systems is not a serious alternative.