How pure is the beer in Germany?(bbc.com)
bbc.com
How pure is the beer in Germany?
http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/20161027-how-pure-is-the-beer-in-germany
70 comments
Imported beers do not need to be brewed according to the Reinheitsgebot. EU legislation only allows discrimination against in-country merchandise.
You can buy all kinds of other beers in Germany. There are craftbeer stores that carry all kinds of imports from awesome Belgium beers to Cali IPAs and everything else. I'm not sure legally if it's sold as some sort of other alcohol, but you can get it w/o issue.
i agree, but you have to understand that people really, really, really like IPA's. they taste good and are generally brewed with high ABV meaning less money spent and less calories for a buzz. this is especially true when eating with your beer.
High IBU IPA's are in fashion. For a few years, it was dark beers - the Darker the Better™. Stouts were king[0]. Then the american pale ale, then the IPA, then double IPA, now triple/quadruple IPAs and bourbon barrel aged everything. Fatigue is setting in - I'm predicting that sours will enjoy a short stint (there's only so far you can push a sour), and then porters will be the next big thing, followed by pilseners and then the cycle starts anew.
[0] For the record, Rogue's (not Stone's) Shakespeare Stout is still the kinglord of all beers.
[0] For the record, Rogue's (not Stone's) Shakespeare Stout is still the kinglord of all beers.
High IBUs were a few years ago, now it's more about the fruity non-bitter aromas. The Viel famously marketed a "0 IBU" IPA recently.
You're a couple years out of date with the metagame. What state are you in?
ciders are going strong right now.
in big cities this stuff just comes and goes in waves, it's like any other foodie-consumed product used to signal trendiness.
in big cities this stuff just comes and goes in waves, it's like any other foodie-consumed product used to signal trendiness.
ABV correlates almost directly to the amount of calories in a beer. If you drink a 9% beer it is going to have more calories.
If you drink Michelob Ultra it is going to have less calories, but also a much lower ABV.
To get the same level of buzz you may be drinking more or fewer beers, but ultimately you are consuming about the same number of calories.
This is why low calorie beers are a scam. If you need to drink 3 of them to feel a buzz, then you consumed just as many calories as if you just stuck to regular light beer or drank a single IPA.
If you drink Michelob Ultra it is going to have less calories, but also a much lower ABV.
To get the same level of buzz you may be drinking more or fewer beers, but ultimately you are consuming about the same number of calories.
This is why low calorie beers are a scam. If you need to drink 3 of them to feel a buzz, then you consumed just as many calories as if you just stuck to regular light beer or drank a single IPA.
Beers have other calories besides alcohol. Different beers are brewed with different strengths of sugars for different lengths of fermentation times, vastly affecting the residual sugars and finished alcohol amount.
While fermenting the same wort for different lengths wouldn't necessarily change the total caloric content, not all beers start with the same amount of sugar.
While fermenting the same wort for different lengths wouldn't necessarily change the total caloric content, not all beers start with the same amount of sugar.
i can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me.
i think most people would prefer to drink one strong IPA than 3 or 4 michelob ultras for a variety of reasons.
i think most people would prefer to drink one strong IPA than 3 or 4 michelob ultras for a variety of reasons.
I agree that people really enjoy IPAs. I disagree that you get the same buzz for less calories. It's a wash.
Drink 2 Coors Lights, or one Sculpin IPA. Buzz and calories consumed will be about the same.
Drink 2 Coors Lights, or one Sculpin IPA. Buzz and calories consumed will be about the same.
Making a strong IPA is a good way to hide a lack of brewing skills. If you try to brew a simple blond beer that tastes interesting you really can't hide anything. Not saying strong IPA's are always bad but I've noticed more than once that a microbrewery only had an interesting IPA and the rest was either boring or even downright bad.
Absolutely not. Much harder to pull off a recipe that involves multiple malts and several late hop additions.
Maybe what your saying applies to some homebrewers, but breweries don't make IPAs because they screwed up a pale ale and decided to add more hops. Even at small breweries every brewing is planned in advance and coordinated with supply and brewing space.
The QA at any commercial brewery would have to be absolutely terrible if they couldn't brew something as simple as a blond without off flavors.
Maybe what your saying applies to some homebrewers, but breweries don't make IPAs because they screwed up a pale ale and decided to add more hops. Even at small breweries every brewing is planned in advance and coordinated with supply and brewing space.
The QA at any commercial brewery would have to be absolutely terrible if they couldn't brew something as simple as a blond without off flavors.
The line between home brewers and microbreweries can be a bit vague. If I buy a beer in a pub there's no certificate that a beer has been brewed in a professional production facility by certain standards. But that already really sounds like a Reinheitsgrebot ;)
I like IPA's a lot, perhaps after big Belgian flavours my favourite, but I don't trust breweries that have a mediocre (boring and/or not super well made) selection of beers where only the IPA stands out.
I like IPA's a lot, perhaps after big Belgian flavours my favourite, but I don't trust breweries that have a mediocre (boring and/or not super well made) selection of beers where only the IPA stands out.
It isn't vague where I live, a bar can't sell homebrew under federal law.
I generally don't trust breweries that have "a mediocre selection of beers" in general, regardless of what type of IPA they're serving.
I generally don't trust breweries that have "a mediocre selection of beers" in general, regardless of what type of IPA they're serving.
It's vague because basically the only difference between a homebrew and and a nanobrew is that the nanobrew has cut the right checks to the right .gov entities.
They actually started locally brewing Sam lager in the UK. It doesn't taste right.
What exactly about an IPA would make it in violation of the reinheitsgebot? Nothing.
Tons of IPAs are a sign that the brewery doesn't really have their shit together from a cleanliness standpoint. Tons of hops has an antibacterial side effect.
Most beer styles have some hops in them, and breweries don't make IPAs because they have sanitation issues; they make them because they sell well.
Sanitation during the boil is a non-issue, and any added benefit from dry hop additions is negligible because there's already alcohol in the beer at that point anyway. Hops are not a substitute for clean fermentors.
Sanitation during the boil is a non-issue, and any added benefit from dry hop additions is negligible because there's already alcohol in the beer at that point anyway. Hops are not a substitute for clean fermentors.
The whole reason hops are added is for their antibacterial propterites.
> Hops are used extensively in brewing for their antibacterial effect that favors the activity of brewer's yeast over less desirable microorganisms
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hops
> Hops have a long history of use as a natural preservative in beer. A little known benefit, however, is that hops also contain high concentrations of unique “alpha” and “beta” acids that can inhibit the growth of Gram-positive bacteria at surprisingly low concentrations. To that end, Hopsteiner produces a variety of natural and modified food grade hop products which can very effectively and economically inhibit bacteria growth in a wide variety of applications including food, spirits, fuel ethanol, yeast and process streams (to name just a few).
http://www.hopsteiner.com/antibacterial/
And this rule of thumb was told to me by a brewer who just got a GABF medal. The guy knows what he's talking about.
What state are you in? And have you done any brewing at scale? A lot of times you can tell that a craft beer scene is new because of how much everyone is into IPAs.
> Hops are used extensively in brewing for their antibacterial effect that favors the activity of brewer's yeast over less desirable microorganisms
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hops
> Hops have a long history of use as a natural preservative in beer. A little known benefit, however, is that hops also contain high concentrations of unique “alpha” and “beta” acids that can inhibit the growth of Gram-positive bacteria at surprisingly low concentrations. To that end, Hopsteiner produces a variety of natural and modified food grade hop products which can very effectively and economically inhibit bacteria growth in a wide variety of applications including food, spirits, fuel ethanol, yeast and process streams (to name just a few).
http://www.hopsteiner.com/antibacterial/
And this rule of thumb was told to me by a brewer who just got a GABF medal. The guy knows what he's talking about.
What state are you in? And have you done any brewing at scale? A lot of times you can tell that a craft beer scene is new because of how much everyone is into IPAs.
It is in NO WAY the "whole reason", and your first quote has a "[citation needed]".
Your second quote begins with "a long history". Historically this was more important, these days there are much better ways of controlling sanitation, and like I said almost all types of beer have hops in them anyway; IPAs don't see a significant advantage in sanitation.
I'm in NY and I've done brewing at scale. IPAs have been a popular style for quite a while now, I don't see what it says about one scene over another.
Your second quote begins with "a long history". Historically this was more important, these days there are much better ways of controlling sanitation, and like I said almost all types of beer have hops in them anyway; IPAs don't see a significant advantage in sanitation.
I'm in NY and I've done brewing at scale. IPAs have been a popular style for quite a while now, I don't see what it says about one scene over another.
I live in Oregon, where the craft brew scene arguably started: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/08/0808_oregonb...
IPAs have routinely been the most featured variety at all the pubs I've frequented over the last 15+ years.
Breweries make them because people want them.
People want them because they are delicious.
IPAs have routinely been the most featured variety at all the pubs I've frequented over the last 15+ years.
Breweries make them because people want them.
People want them because they are delicious.
> The whole reason hops are added is for their antibacterial propterites.
Lots of brewers add them for flavor, too...
Lots of brewers add them for flavor, too...
> Tons of IPAs are a sign that the brewery doesn't really have their shit together from a cleanliness standpoint.
That takes things a bit far. It can easily be a sign that the brewery has hopped on the IPA bandwagon like everyone else.
That takes things a bit far. It can easily be a sign that the brewery has hopped on the IPA bandwagon like everyone else.
Why do you think the IPA bandwagon got started to begin with? And why does it slow down in areas with a more developed craft scene like Colorado and the northwest?
I've been drinking IPAs in Oregon for over a decade and the breweries haven't slowed down on making them one bit.
There are more choices of highly hopped beers than ever.
Typically half the selection on the shelf is some kind of IPA.
There are more choices of highly hopped beers than ever.
Typically half the selection on the shelf is some kind of IPA.
This article from Ron Pattinson - http://www.europeanbeerguide.net/reinheit.htm provides a number of interesting opinions on the Reinheitsgebot
The purity law from Bavaria is not the first one. They found another one, dated 82 years earlier, from a very different Region of Germany.
Bavarians were reportedly not amused ...
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&pr...
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&pr...
A very misleading and poorly researched article. There are dozens of additives and agents allowed in brewing in Germany, but merely because they don't have to be listed on the label, breweries can uphold the illusion of purity.
If the label says it is bier, it has no additives as far as I know.
We should separate the concept of ingredients and additives, which in most cases, are found accidentally and only in traces.
Can you enumerate additives allowed in german bier?
Can you enumerate additives allowed in german bier?
There are many chemicals used for cleaning / filtering in bier which technically don't/shouldn't end up in the beer and as such do not have to be listed; also the main ingredients are plants and as such they are fed and sprayed with things that are not ingredients. Pesticides and micro plastics are found in most (all?) German beer but are not direct ingredients so they are not listed.
That is true, but not the same as an additive put in on purpose.
From the top of my head, polyvinylpyrrolidone, lactic acid, bentonite and gypsum are on the permitted list. For beers brewed with top fermenting yeast, sugars and artificial sweeteners are permitted as well (I think they do need to be listed, though).
Note that all of these are used by brewers intentionally, not just as a side-effect. They are used to clarify or to make water more suitable for brewing.
Note that all of these are used by brewers intentionally, not just as a side-effect. They are used to clarify or to make water more suitable for brewing.
I can't imagine that much will change even if they stopped enforcing the Reinheitsgebot all together. Most breweries will probably just continue the way they always did and try out some new products in addition to that. If there is one constant in Germany, it's beer.
I agree that the Reinheitsgebot would most likely be followed for most beers even after its potential annulment, just because there is too much cultural stigma against "unpure" beer. But still, there is more change in German beers than most Germans like to realize. Kölsch for instance, the beverage that defines much of the culture of major parts of the Rhineland region, has only really become popular in the middle of the twentieth century -- despite all the alleged traditions ascribed to it.
Wow I never would have guessed. Der Schein trügt.
Just take a look at Austria, which doesn't have the Reinheitsgebot in law, but still mostly follows it.
They already repealed Reinheitsgebot to replace it with Biergesetz, which expands the rules.
I'll have my impure Belgians any day over a pure German beer. Can't wait to go back to Belgium again :)
I've tried some trappist style beers from microbreweries but so far they've missed the mark. Even a La Trappe already has a wine like complexity in it's flavours.
I've tried some trappist style beers from microbreweries but so far they've missed the mark. Even a La Trappe already has a wine like complexity in it's flavours.
I have to admit, I like these laws. You can still brew mostly what you want, it is just that you are not allowed to call it beer. So essentially it is a clear definition what beer is.
There are similar rules, which define exactly what confitures, marmalades, cremes, jellies and fruit spreads are and how they differ. Same for drinks.
This is awesome for consumers: When you buy "fruit juice" it is actually 100% made out of fruit, not a sugary lemonade. When you buy "Wiener Schnitzel" it will actually be a Wiener Schnitzel (veal not pork). You do not have to look up the ingredients or ask the waiter.
There are similar rules, which define exactly what confitures, marmalades, cremes, jellies and fruit spreads are and how they differ. Same for drinks.
This is awesome for consumers: When you buy "fruit juice" it is actually 100% made out of fruit, not a sugary lemonade. When you buy "Wiener Schnitzel" it will actually be a Wiener Schnitzel (veal not pork). You do not have to look up the ingredients or ask the waiter.
google cache for those of you that can't view it: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:tDlbieC...
Very interesting, as a German beer drinker I always wondered how Bavarian wheat beer could comply with the Reinheitsgebot.
Not so pure, see [1] and [2] about glyphosate contamination of some brands.
Not really a well researched article, the research linked below is well known in Europe and was discussed in every major news outlet six months ago.
Edit: If you disagree, reply, don't just downvote.
[1] http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-beer-idUSKCN0VY222
[2] http://sustainablepulse.com/2016/02/25/german-beer-industry-...
Not really a well researched article, the research linked below is well known in Europe and was discussed in every major news outlet six months ago.
Edit: If you disagree, reply, don't just downvote.
[1] http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-beer-idUSKCN0VY222
[2] http://sustainablepulse.com/2016/02/25/german-beer-industry-...
> BBC Worldwide (International Site)
> We're sorry but this site is not accessible from the UK as it is part of our international service and is not funded by the licence fee. It is run commercially by BBC Worldwide, a wholly-owned subsidiary of the BBC, the profits made from it go back to BBC programme-makers to help fund great new BBC programmes. You can find out more about BBC Worldwide and its digital activities at www.bbcworldwide.com.
> We're sorry but this site is not accessible from the UK as it is part of our international service and is not funded by the licence fee. It is run commercially by BBC Worldwide, a wholly-owned subsidiary of the BBC, the profits made from it go back to BBC programme-makers to help fund great new BBC programmes. You can find out more about BBC Worldwide and its digital activities at www.bbcworldwide.com.
That's a strange way of saying "BBC UK's UK monopoly prevents BBC Worldwide from serving UK users"
The Reinheitsgebot is more of a myth though:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th-f1ztar_U
Wow, I can't believe this website is actually blocked to residents in the UK.
"BBC Worldwide (International Site) We're sorry but this site is not accessible from the UK as it is part of our international service and is not funded by the licence fee. It is run commercially by BBC Worldwide, a wholly-owned subsidiary of the BBC, the profits made from it go back to BBC programme-makers to help fund great new BBC programmes. You can find out more about BBC Worldwide and its digital activities at www.bbcworldwide.com."
"BBC Worldwide (International Site) We're sorry but this site is not accessible from the UK as it is part of our international service and is not funded by the licence fee. It is run commercially by BBC Worldwide, a wholly-owned subsidiary of the BBC, the profits made from it go back to BBC programme-makers to help fund great new BBC programmes. You can find out more about BBC Worldwide and its digital activities at www.bbcworldwide.com."
Web Archive mirror: http://archive.is/O38gv
Do people in other countries have to pay to visit the page?
I didn't have to pay, but it does show me ads.
No, but it includes advertising.
Which is why it is blocked to people in the UK as they already pay the licence fee and therefore aren't allowed to be shown ads by the BBC. It's a bit of a weird situation.
So they instead.. block the page? Couldn't they just hide the ads?
They already selectively show/hide ads - for example, I'm in the Republic of Ireland, and see ads on the BBC News site.
It's a bit more complicated than that. BBC in the UK aren't allowed to operate outside their charter - they're severely restricted in how much they can compete with private commerce.
BBC Worldwide is the beeb's commercial arm, who do exactly this - outside the UK, where they're competing fairly as any other commercial venture.
So Worldwide aren't allowed to operate within the UK precisely because of the licence fee - it'd be unfair competition. It's not just because they're shown ads - it's simply because the content is produced by their commercial arm, so finds itself on the wrong side of the home/worldwide silo.
It's a bit more complicated than that. BBC in the UK aren't allowed to operate outside their charter - they're severely restricted in how much they can compete with private commerce.
BBC Worldwide is the beeb's commercial arm, who do exactly this - outside the UK, where they're competing fairly as any other commercial venture.
So Worldwide aren't allowed to operate within the UK precisely because of the licence fee - it'd be unfair competition. It's not just because they're shown ads - it's simply because the content is produced by their commercial arm, so finds itself on the wrong side of the home/worldwide silo.
I think that because the content on the page is produced as commercial content (with the aim to make money on advertising) they can't show the content at all in the UK. (yes it's weird and it's stupid/outdated)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_BBC_television_c... - presumably its web site counts as "on air".
Not in the US, I just read it.
Works in Ontario, Canada.
[deleted]
Wow, kafka would be proud!
Why?
Because the situation is absurd or kafkaesque. British citizens who pay for BBC are not allowed to view BBC Worldwide, which is owned by BBC.
But they are not paying for BBC Worldwide, if anything BBC Worldwide is subsidizing the UK part of the BBC.
Nobody is paying for BBC Worldwide (at least to view this article, apart from advertisement). So why not show it to UK citizens? It wouldn't take anything away from BBC or BBC Worldwide. Maybe some more clicks on advertisements from people in the UK, so more revenue. Also if BBC Worldwide is showing content to everybody but UK citizens to subsidize BBC to produce other content for UK citizens, why not show the BBC Worldwide content in the first place (if the goal is to have more content in the UK)?
I really don't mind all the experimenting with American craft beers with the one exception... please stop making ultra IPAs. Ever bar I go to in the Boston area has like four times the number of IPA to other styles (I'm a stout, porter, and sour lover).
It's like a competition between the micros of who can shove the most hops in a beer.