Ask HN: Do you live in lesser known, cheaper, less crowded places?
In the US and Europe, but generally anywhere. How would you pitch your city/town?
25 comments
It's the capital of Croatia - a country that's part of EU so you get most of it's privileges, but still far enough that you can still live the slow paced life if you want it.
You can buy a house in the city or on the outskirts but still have the city centre about 30-45 minutes away depending on how far away you move. You can live by the mountainside or close to the lake. Our standard is pretty low so with a tech salary you can live like a king and the tech scene is booming so you can work in all kinds of companies. The night life is pretty good and if the clubs are not for you, there is lot to try in terms of bars and restaurants.
Tired of the city and wanna go to the sea? Take a 1 hr drive and you're at a beautiful beach with crystal clear water. Wanna go to the mountains? Ride for 10 minutes and you've got all the hills you want.
A lot of people here eat homemade, homegrown food and it's nothing special for them. We have our own specialties, but also a clash of turkish, austrian and mediterranean culture so you can eat sausages with olive oil and finish the meal with some baklava.
Lifestyle is usually pretty slow-paced for most and everyone takes everything slow. We drink coffee in the bar for at least two hours and if you go for a beer you ain't coming home soon.
Even tho there is a lot of politics and bickering, life here is generally really great.
You can buy a house in the city or on the outskirts but still have the city centre about 30-45 minutes away depending on how far away you move. You can live by the mountainside or close to the lake. Our standard is pretty low so with a tech salary you can live like a king and the tech scene is booming so you can work in all kinds of companies. The night life is pretty good and if the clubs are not for you, there is lot to try in terms of bars and restaurants.
Tired of the city and wanna go to the sea? Take a 1 hr drive and you're at a beautiful beach with crystal clear water. Wanna go to the mountains? Ride for 10 minutes and you've got all the hills you want.
A lot of people here eat homemade, homegrown food and it's nothing special for them. We have our own specialties, but also a clash of turkish, austrian and mediterranean culture so you can eat sausages with olive oil and finish the meal with some baklava.
Lifestyle is usually pretty slow-paced for most and everyone takes everything slow. We drink coffee in the bar for at least two hours and if you go for a beer you ain't coming home soon.
Even tho there is a lot of politics and bickering, life here is generally really great.
Fuerteventura (Spain) -
- It is a turist island, but not that much crowded. It is relatively cheap to live there (comparing to Dublin/London/OtherTechHubs)
- climate is absolutely amazing (18-25 degrees all year - no rain)
- it is not a party island, it is really quiet and peaceful
- internet is decent - although expect higher pings when working on remote terminal.
- no need to speak spanish - since turists are everywhere - basically everyone speak english on level that enables communication
- perfectly safe.
- EU, Schengen.
- It is a turist island, but not that much crowded. It is relatively cheap to live there (comparing to Dublin/London/OtherTechHubs)
- climate is absolutely amazing (18-25 degrees all year - no rain)
- it is not a party island, it is really quiet and peaceful
- internet is decent - although expect higher pings when working on remote terminal.
- no need to speak spanish - since turists are everywhere - basically everyone speak english on level that enables communication
- perfectly safe.
- EU, Schengen.
Looks rather nice, but as an Australian I have a rather high expectation on the quality of the beaches :)
The town is small and has little to offer but is quiet and life is nice if you have income. Life can be extremely cheap here and the food is great. Especially the meat. Eating every day out is possible due to food quality and price. Of course there is junk food around too.
What I like about it is the people. It is easy to make friends and especially in summertime pubs are crowded. Groups and clubs (tennis, basketball, running, etc) are small so you get to know everyone and get invited here and there.
Growing your own garden here is easy because the weather is generally good although in August you should be at some beach and in February it might snow. You breathe and smell each season.
Winter might be a bit boring if you are not active, as in build a tight schedule with many activities, by default.
Now the interesting part is the location. It is 1.5 hours from the closest airport, 45 minutes away from the sea and 1.5 hours away from mountains that you can snowboard.
There is a virgin forest nearby and a river which offers lots of interesting activities. Biking in the city is a bit problematic due to lack of infrastructure but there countless natural mountain biking tracks.
There is a track 1.5 hours away where events happen every now and the and we can go racing.
The closest island which has shores that most will find outstanding, is about 1.5 hours.
Generally speaking, if someone has an income of +2k/month here can live really well. But it's possible to live with 500 $ too.
And everything is about 1.5 hours away.
I like it :-)
What I like about it is the people. It is easy to make friends and especially in summertime pubs are crowded. Groups and clubs (tennis, basketball, running, etc) are small so you get to know everyone and get invited here and there.
Growing your own garden here is easy because the weather is generally good although in August you should be at some beach and in February it might snow. You breathe and smell each season.
Winter might be a bit boring if you are not active, as in build a tight schedule with many activities, by default.
Now the interesting part is the location. It is 1.5 hours from the closest airport, 45 minutes away from the sea and 1.5 hours away from mountains that you can snowboard.
There is a virgin forest nearby and a river which offers lots of interesting activities. Biking in the city is a bit problematic due to lack of infrastructure but there countless natural mountain biking tracks.
There is a track 1.5 hours away where events happen every now and the and we can go racing.
The closest island which has shores that most will find outstanding, is about 1.5 hours.
Generally speaking, if someone has an income of +2k/month here can live really well. But it's possible to live with 500 $ too.
And everything is about 1.5 hours away.
I like it :-)
Will you share the location? Or do you like it too much to do so?
The location is:
Drama 66100, Greece
No need to be ironic though. It is fairly easy to find out.
No need to be ironic though. It is fairly easy to find out.
I found it via your profile before AnimalMuppet asked. Was waiting to see what your reply would be, or whether anyone else would also spot it :)
The area sounds great from your description. Also googled and looked at some photos of places around there.
The area sounds great from your description. Also googled and looked at some photos of places around there.
Salt Lake City, Utah. There's more than a million people in the metro area, so it's not that "less crowded". And it sits in a valley, and as it continues to grow, it's going to run out of land.
That's the bad part. The good part: You're 45 minutes away from world-class skiing. (There's a reason they call it "the greatest snow on earth".) Want a trout stream? Also 45 minutes away. Mountain biking? Same. Want the red-rock desert? Four or five hours away.
Want to get away from people? Leave town, in any direction. The next big city is Denver, over 400 miles away.
Las Vegas is 450 miles, Interstate the whole way. Call it 6 hours drive time, maybe 6 1/2. Too far? Wendover, Nevada is 90 minutes away (but that's a pretty dinky, depressing town, so it's only for someone with a serious urge to gamble).
There's a lot of tech here, and in the Orem/Provo area. Housing costs are reasonable (maybe $350K for 3800 square feet in a decent part of town). Drive times are reasonable - half an hour will get you pretty much anywhere, unless you do something like live at the very south end of the valley and work downtown.
It's a university town, with an educated population. There's a very good children's hospital. (The zoo's kind of dinky, though.)
Despite its reputation, yes, you can get a drink here. There are some pretty good (even award-winning) brewpubs.
The religious aspects sometimes drive me nuts. The air pollution can be moderately bad at times (not bad by LA standards, and not even as bad as it was in the 70s, but still worse than I like). And it's not really uncrowded, at least by my standards. (A million people is a million people, no way around it. But it's like 2 million for the whole state, and it's a pretty big state.) There's some crime downtown, and the homeless can be problematic, but it's nothing like SF or LA. All in all, it's a pretty nice place to live.
That's the bad part. The good part: You're 45 minutes away from world-class skiing. (There's a reason they call it "the greatest snow on earth".) Want a trout stream? Also 45 minutes away. Mountain biking? Same. Want the red-rock desert? Four or five hours away.
Want to get away from people? Leave town, in any direction. The next big city is Denver, over 400 miles away.
Las Vegas is 450 miles, Interstate the whole way. Call it 6 hours drive time, maybe 6 1/2. Too far? Wendover, Nevada is 90 minutes away (but that's a pretty dinky, depressing town, so it's only for someone with a serious urge to gamble).
There's a lot of tech here, and in the Orem/Provo area. Housing costs are reasonable (maybe $350K for 3800 square feet in a decent part of town). Drive times are reasonable - half an hour will get you pretty much anywhere, unless you do something like live at the very south end of the valley and work downtown.
It's a university town, with an educated population. There's a very good children's hospital. (The zoo's kind of dinky, though.)
Despite its reputation, yes, you can get a drink here. There are some pretty good (even award-winning) brewpubs.
The religious aspects sometimes drive me nuts. The air pollution can be moderately bad at times (not bad by LA standards, and not even as bad as it was in the 70s, but still worse than I like). And it's not really uncrowded, at least by my standards. (A million people is a million people, no way around it. But it's like 2 million for the whole state, and it's a pretty big state.) There's some crime downtown, and the homeless can be problematic, but it's nothing like SF or LA. All in all, it's a pretty nice place to live.
SLC has worse air pollution than LA for the weeks it's inverted (approximately 6 weeks a year). Climate change is adding to the problem.
http://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=3799747&itype=CMSID
http://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=3799747&itype=CMSID
Tallinn, Estonia; in no particular order:
- Booming tech scene
- Bureaucracy is almost non-existant: everything is done online
- Free public transport for tallinn residents
- Strong beer scene
- Part of EU
- 3h from Paris, 1h30 from Berlin
- IT wages 2-3x median salary
- Booming tech scene
- Bureaucracy is almost non-existant: everything is done online
- Free public transport for tallinn residents
- Strong beer scene
- Part of EU
- 3h from Paris, 1h30 from Berlin
- IT wages 2-3x median salary
Brazil's countryside is pretty sweet. The issue is that I don't think you can get by with only English, so learning Portuguese would be a must for a non-native.
You can eat well, stuff is generally far, you can't get anything you want without going to the city, but as far the cost of living goes, it's pretty good. But of course, you can only do this if you can somehow find a source of income which allows you to, as there's almost no opportunity there to make money and I believe internet access is going to suck a bit.
I don't live in Brazil anymore, but would love to move there when I'm old, or when I'm tired of Europe.
I know a few Europeans which traveled there and ended up loving the place, going there, getting married and living forever. The weather really helps and it's a experience much different from living in a city in Europe. But I guess some people would absolutely hate it, if they expect that there'll be a city and everything to work for them.
I like doing stuff by myself, so I like that environment. Some people like to get their houses cleaned and their lunch made.
You can eat well, stuff is generally far, you can't get anything you want without going to the city, but as far the cost of living goes, it's pretty good. But of course, you can only do this if you can somehow find a source of income which allows you to, as there's almost no opportunity there to make money and I believe internet access is going to suck a bit.
I don't live in Brazil anymore, but would love to move there when I'm old, or when I'm tired of Europe.
I know a few Europeans which traveled there and ended up loving the place, going there, getting married and living forever. The weather really helps and it's a experience much different from living in a city in Europe. But I guess some people would absolutely hate it, if they expect that there'll be a city and everything to work for them.
I like doing stuff by myself, so I like that environment. Some people like to get their houses cleaned and their lunch made.
Aachen, Germany.
The place itself:
- Excellent Technical University (RWTH)
- cozy place to live
- vivid cultural and recreational life
The area nearby:
- literally besides the borders of The Netherlands and Belgium
- close to Cologne and Dusseldorf area (1hr)
- Frankfurt/Main (international flights, banking) 2hrs
- Luxembourg (is it fair to say, this is the Delaware of the EU?) 2hrs
- Berlin by car, train, flight
- London within 5-6 hours by train (literally a door-to-door experience and thus faster than flight)
- Nature nearby (Eifel)
However, there are some downsides:
- Rents are increasing sharply here, too
- most people act and think very provincially
- weak (but evolving) tech/startup community
- no water around (no lakes, rivers), but North Sea within a 2-3 hrs
The place itself:
- Excellent Technical University (RWTH)
- cozy place to live
- vivid cultural and recreational life
The area nearby:
- literally besides the borders of The Netherlands and Belgium
- close to Cologne and Dusseldorf area (1hr)
- Frankfurt/Main (international flights, banking) 2hrs
- Luxembourg (is it fair to say, this is the Delaware of the EU?) 2hrs
- Berlin by car, train, flight
- London within 5-6 hours by train (literally a door-to-door experience and thus faster than flight)
- Nature nearby (Eifel)
However, there are some downsides:
- Rents are increasing sharply here, too
- most people act and think very provincially
- weak (but evolving) tech/startup community
- no water around (no lakes, rivers), but North Sea within a 2-3 hrs
I purposely don't encourage people to come live where I do because it's pretty sweet not having to deal with crowds and traffic and that's why I moved to where I live. Lucky for me, decades of stigma surround the area and "City Folks" are still afraid of being being tied up and made to "squeal like a pig" if they come here :D
The truth is, here in the US, that's a pretty common fear among urban dwellers and one of the things you have to overcome in many areas in the mid to east southern States (Oklahoma to the Carolinas and south of them).
Urbanites are afraid to drive the back roads there, afraid of getting lost in them, and afraid to venture into National Forests and Wilderness areas. Those who've grown up there feel safest there and they tend to fear going to the City. That's what you're dealing with.
So, you generally pitch it like everyone else does, with a focus on the welcoming nature of the locals, the freshness and authenticity of the food, the charm of the architecture, and the natural beauty of the area, which are all honest and true virtues in most of those rural areas.
If you want to do something different in a marketing campaign I'll offer you might spoof the fears and contrast them with the reality in a humorous way.
The truth is, here in the US, that's a pretty common fear among urban dwellers and one of the things you have to overcome in many areas in the mid to east southern States (Oklahoma to the Carolinas and south of them).
Urbanites are afraid to drive the back roads there, afraid of getting lost in them, and afraid to venture into National Forests and Wilderness areas. Those who've grown up there feel safest there and they tend to fear going to the City. That's what you're dealing with.
So, you generally pitch it like everyone else does, with a focus on the welcoming nature of the locals, the freshness and authenticity of the food, the charm of the architecture, and the natural beauty of the area, which are all honest and true virtues in most of those rural areas.
If you want to do something different in a marketing campaign I'll offer you might spoof the fears and contrast them with the reality in a humorous way.
> welcoming nature of the locals
I think that only comes off if you can pass for a local. At least here in Ohio, the better part of rural people are raging xenophobes, who live in the boonies to get away from Those People. It may be different where you live.
The National Parks and other attractions are better though, and they do expect Others to come down on occasion, so their presence isn't met with as much resentment as you would have going to a non-chain diner.
Source: I'm from quasi-rural Ohio.
I think that only comes off if you can pass for a local. At least here in Ohio, the better part of rural people are raging xenophobes, who live in the boonies to get away from Those People. It may be different where you live.
The National Parks and other attractions are better though, and they do expect Others to come down on occasion, so their presence isn't met with as much resentment as you would have going to a non-chain diner.
Source: I'm from quasi-rural Ohio.
No, that's not so much the case here. We have those types here but they're a small minority. It's true most people here are conservative and religious but they're also friendly and will go out of their way to help a stranger. I've had people pull over to offer me help when I've stopped along a rural road just to read a map or find something in my car. That's common here.
I'm also not one for going out of my way to "pitch" my town (not that Amazon would be interested, but that's exactly the kind of entity I'm happy to leave to other cities...), but happy to offer up a description if you helps you in (what sounds to be) your search for a new location.
To that end: Northwest Arkansas is pretty great. Cheap cost of living but plenty of jobs between the University of Arkansas, Walmart HQ, Tyson HQ, and JB Hunt HQ. And because there's Walmart money, there's also a nice airport, a really lovely art museum, and a large concert venue that will at least occasionally attract bands I'm interested in.
You've also got your pick of political leanings, if that's important to you. Fayetteville (university town) is more blue; Bentonville (more of a corporate town) is more red.
And it's in the Ozark Mountains, so plenty of hiking around if that's your thing.
To that end: Northwest Arkansas is pretty great. Cheap cost of living but plenty of jobs between the University of Arkansas, Walmart HQ, Tyson HQ, and JB Hunt HQ. And because there's Walmart money, there's also a nice airport, a really lovely art museum, and a large concert venue that will at least occasionally attract bands I'm interested in.
You've also got your pick of political leanings, if that's important to you. Fayetteville (university town) is more blue; Bentonville (more of a corporate town) is more red.
And it's in the Ozark Mountains, so plenty of hiking around if that's your thing.
Interesting. I've read both 1) Sam Walton's autobiography, Made in America, in which he mentions Bentonville (it was where he started his first Walmart, IIRC), and 2) an article long ago in the National Geographic about life in the Ozarks (the rural / wooded parts). Both the book and the article were pretty interesting, and nature in the Ozarks looked great, from the photos.
Shhhh....
I live on a farm about 35 miles south of Minneapolis, MN USA.
I wouldn't pitch it :-)
I wouldn't pitch it :-)
Your post title says "lesser known", but it seems like you're really looking for non-tech areas which are normally less crowded. I would argue that most people would opt for more pay or better benefits or other things that are important when choosing a new position rather than just the city.
For example - I would like to live in SF, but I assume I would need to have a house mate...which isn't something I would want.
For example - I would like to live in SF, but I assume I would need to have a house mate...which isn't something I would want.
If someone is working remote (I do, at least for the time being), they might have more choice to choose a location. That is what prompted this question.
I am also not in favor of house mate
I am also not in favor of house mate
Ah I see - working remote would be nice, but that would also not check one of the boxes of employment for me.
I _really_ enjoy being surrounded by intelligent people while working, and being able to bounce ideas off of them and working on a team. (I also enjoy working alone once I'm in the zone too)
I _really_ enjoy being surrounded by intelligent people while working, and being able to bounce ideas off of them and working on a team. (I also enjoy working alone once I'm in the zone too)
Good remote first companies support this. It's different though. I certainly respect your preference.
lmao at the people describing their perfect towns but not sharing their names, reminds me of that one kid in school who has a toy but refuses to say where they got it from. I doubt that Chinese whales would be looking for property leads on HN.
Tulsa is alright. It feels like a 'big small town'. I do have to say that this is honestly just limited to the white neighborhoods.