Woman loses NASA internship after Twitter fight with member of space council(wric.com)
wric.com
Woman loses NASA internship after Twitter fight with member of space council
https://www.wric.com/news/weird-news/woman-loses-nasa-internship-after-twitter-fight-with-member-of-space-council/1388183987
22 comments
The headline is accurate and concise. Not just in the chronology, but the likely cause and effect. Note that Hickam may not himself have caused the firing, but someone at NASA likely saw the controversy (because people started dogpiling both Hickam and Naomi H and tagging @NASA) and made a decision based on it.
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This sends a horrible message to young people that are already over-entitled (I mean really, tweeting like that??).
Young people learn from this: You should be offensive, insulting, and disrespectful. Then when it blows up on you, reach out and apologize, and you'll end up with an even better position.
Young people learn from this: You should be offensive, insulting, and disrespectful. Then when it blows up on you, reach out and apologize, and you'll end up with an even better position.
I think just as many people will get the message that they shouldn't tweet like this in the first place, if they want to avoid such drama. I think it will be evident to most people that Hickham is doing something extraordinary, not that this will be standard operating procedure moving forward.
Another interpretation is that if you say something mildly offensive, you will lose your job. If you act like an adult and apologize, you may be benefit from being humbled and learning your lesson.
"suck my dick" is considered more than mildly offensive.
Go say it to a 20 year old girl at work and see what happens.
Go say it to a 20 year old girl at work and see what happens.
I'm having trouble following my own thoughts on this one.
- Posts about an exciting thing to online friends with the word Fuck - This is ok.
- Random person inserts themselves into the conversation trying to be a moral compass - Good intentions, but not ok.
- tells person to suck dick and balls - Not ok.
So, while the offer was rescinded due to the mob mentality of Twitter following up on this exchange, I would definitely have second thoughts on hiring someone if that's their go-to attitude.
In the end, I'm glad one stupid tweet didn't ruin this person's life, but I hope it's a wake up call that there is no wall between online and offline.
- Posts about an exciting thing to online friends with the word Fuck - This is ok.
- Random person inserts themselves into the conversation trying to be a moral compass - Good intentions, but not ok.
- tells person to suck dick and balls - Not ok.
So, while the offer was rescinded due to the mob mentality of Twitter following up on this exchange, I would definitely have second thoughts on hiring someone if that's their go-to attitude.
In the end, I'm glad one stupid tweet didn't ruin this person's life, but I hope it's a wake up call that there is no wall between online and offline.
Random person inserts themselves into the conversation trying to be a moral compass - Good intentions, but not ok.
He was not trying to be a moral compass and he was not some random person. He is on the National Space Council that oversees NASA. He recognized the fact that NASA wouldn't want it's name associated with such language, especially when used by a new hire. He was trying to politely give her the heads up. That's it.
If you publicly announce you work for such, then you need to be aware that you are now representing them in some sense.
What she did was both obnoxious and stupid. I don't really think she deserves Mr. Hickman's kindness here, though his actions have impressed me and I've now followed him on Twitter.
I'm also thinking I need to try harder to swear less online. Cuz (reasons). Though I already make some effort to clean up my language and I cannot imagine cussing someone out in the manner that happened here.
He was not trying to be a moral compass and he was not some random person. He is on the National Space Council that oversees NASA. He recognized the fact that NASA wouldn't want it's name associated with such language, especially when used by a new hire. He was trying to politely give her the heads up. That's it.
If you publicly announce you work for such, then you need to be aware that you are now representing them in some sense.
What she did was both obnoxious and stupid. I don't really think she deserves Mr. Hickman's kindness here, though his actions have impressed me and I've now followed him on Twitter.
I'm also thinking I need to try harder to swear less online. Cuz (reasons). Though I already make some effort to clean up my language and I cannot imagine cussing someone out in the manner that happened here.
For you this is true since you're fully aware of the context, but if you're being flooded with thousands of notifications and someone just inserts themselves with a single word "Language" I would imagine many people would react in a similar manner.
If he had said, "I work with NASA and your language here is inappropriate" then we wouldn't have heard anything about the incident. He approached this poorly.
If he had said, "I work with NASA and your language here is inappropriate" then we wouldn't have heard anything about the incident. He approached this poorly.
I agree that his terse reaction left itself open to interpreting it in bad faith. That said, maybe Mr. Hickam is someone who isn't inclined to declare his authority in a normal situation. As he said in his blog post, he has no power over hiring or firing and so even saying "your language here is inappropriate" may feel out of bounds for him.
In the end, I think the least that can be expected of anyone who chooses to attack a stranger is that they take the 5 seconds required to click that person's profile and skim their bio, and even Google it if that person uses their real name. To me, Naomi H's major screwup is not necessarily her profanity, but what appeared to be a total lack of discretion. If you have time to tell someone to fuck off, you have time to look up there info; there's no excuse in this age of Google and high-speed internet to do otherwise.
In the end, I think the least that can be expected of anyone who chooses to attack a stranger is that they take the 5 seconds required to click that person's profile and skim their bio, and even Google it if that person uses their real name. To me, Naomi H's major screwup is not necessarily her profanity, but what appeared to be a total lack of discretion. If you have time to tell someone to fuck off, you have time to look up there info; there's no excuse in this age of Google and high-speed internet to do otherwise.
I don't disagree at all about the language used - really childish and shows a lack of discretion.
I do stand by my feelings on people saying one word and expecting anything besides annoyance or being ignored. Why should I take the energy to research a person if they can't be bothered to type something more clear.
I do stand by my feelings on people saying one word and expecting anything besides annoyance or being ignored. Why should I take the energy to research a person if they can't be bothered to type something more clear.
You shouldn't be expected to acknowledge any stranger on the Internet. But if you have time to say something angry and rude at them, then you have time to do literally the few seconds it takes to do due diligence.
We don't know for sure why exactly NASA fired her, but it's understandable if they did it out of political fear, like a Goldman Sachs manager firing an intern for shitting on a member of the board of directors. But it's possible the intern was fired not out of fear, but concern that if she could be such an asshole to a legend at NASA who was not being explicitly rude, then imagine how less empathetic she might be toward someone with far less privilege and institutional standing.
Again, imagine if it were an intern at Goldman Sachs, or some other institution that's considered as elite in its industry as NASA is in science and engineering.
We don't know for sure why exactly NASA fired her, but it's understandable if they did it out of political fear, like a Goldman Sachs manager firing an intern for shitting on a member of the board of directors. But it's possible the intern was fired not out of fear, but concern that if she could be such an asshole to a legend at NASA who was not being explicitly rude, then imagine how less empathetic she might be toward someone with far less privilege and institutional standing.
Again, imagine if it were an intern at Goldman Sachs, or some other institution that's considered as elite in its industry as NASA is in science and engineering.
That's a little like saying Linus Torvalds is required to identify himself to people wanting to submit things to his project. No, he has a reasonable expectation that they know who he is. It was stupid precisely because Hickam is extremely prominent and not at all hard to identify.
You are basically saying its okay to cuss someone out because you didn't realize they were important and basically your boss. I fundamentally disagree. Her behavior is terrible, no matter who the guy is. It's just that much worse that she is also proving how clueless she is in so very many ways on top of showing her butt generally.
You are basically saying its okay to cuss someone out because you didn't realize they were important and basically your boss. I fundamentally disagree. Her behavior is terrible, no matter who the guy is. It's just that much worse that she is also proving how clueless she is in so very many ways on top of showing her butt generally.
> Random person inserts themselves into the conversation trying to be a moral compass - Good intentions, but not ok.
Disagree. It's ok for people to address bad behavior in a public space. Especially when the person is now representing you or your group.
Disagree. It's ok for people to address bad behavior in a public space. Especially when the person is now representing you or your group.
I'm still stuck on this point. Would you expect a kind response, even in public, if someone overheard you talking to friends and just said "Language."? Now take that and move it to social media which is hardly a public space where manners are the norm.
He made an error here and clearly he feels guilty about the way he addressed it.
He made an error here and clearly he feels guilty about the way he addressed it.
> I'm still stuck on this point. Would you expect a kind response, even in public, if someone overheard you talking to friends and just said "Language."?
It depends on the public space. Walking through the mall with friends? No. Standing on a platform in front of a crowd with big NASA flags behind me, and speaking into a microphone?
This situation was more like the second, IMHO.
I don't think he feels guilty about it. I think he recognized the impact this kids mistake could have and wanted to help.
He felt responsibility because of his involvement.
>Would you expect a kind response...
Actually, sadly I would not. I feel like selfishness, entitlement, and respect have been taken to a new low in the last 30 something years in the majority of youth.
It depends on the public space. Walking through the mall with friends? No. Standing on a platform in front of a crowd with big NASA flags behind me, and speaking into a microphone?
This situation was more like the second, IMHO.
I don't think he feels guilty about it. I think he recognized the impact this kids mistake could have and wanted to help.
He felt responsibility because of his involvement.
>Would you expect a kind response...
Actually, sadly I would not. I feel like selfishness, entitlement, and respect have been taken to a new low in the last 30 something years in the majority of youth.
I had several encounters at my time as an intern at Jet Propulsion Laboratory where I was alerted to my immaturity and the responsibilities that were in front of me. I'm tremendously thankful for each one of those lessons.
There are many different types of personality on lab and they all contribute the extremely unique innovation culture there but there is also always the north star about the responsibility of shepherding a successful space mission which needs to be internalized by all the members in order for these efforts to succeed. I'm ultimately very sensitive to the underlying ethos of both parties in the exchange documented in this article.
Towards the end of the article it becomes clear that both parties apologized for the encounter and Mr. Hickam apparently said "After talking to her, I am certain she deserves a position in the aerospace industry and I'm doing all I can to secure her one that will be better than she lost. I have also talked to the folks that had to do with her internship and made absolutely certain that there will be no black mark on her record."
I feel like this is ultimately a very good outcome. Everyone involved learned something and grew from the experience.
There are many different types of personality on lab and they all contribute the extremely unique innovation culture there but there is also always the north star about the responsibility of shepherding a successful space mission which needs to be internalized by all the members in order for these efforts to succeed. I'm ultimately very sensitive to the underlying ethos of both parties in the exchange documented in this article.
Towards the end of the article it becomes clear that both parties apologized for the encounter and Mr. Hickam apparently said "After talking to her, I am certain she deserves a position in the aerospace industry and I'm doing all I can to secure her one that will be better than she lost. I have also talked to the folks that had to do with her internship and made absolutely certain that there will be no black mark on her record."
I feel like this is ultimately a very good outcome. Everyone involved learned something and grew from the experience.
I don't believe Hickam apologized, he certainly didn't need to. He accepted her apology and chose to help make sure her life wasn't ruined due to this mistake.
Genuinely surprised that someone applying for an internship at NASA does not know who Homer Hickam is.
She probably got a lot of responses, and wasn't really looking at the names anymore.
Sorry, NASA should not sacrifice its standards for this woman. Life is a bitch, next time don't act like one.
0. https://mobile.twitter.com/realgamer07/status/10319975097853...
Edit: p.s. I know this is in the article, but that headline is a bit sensational.