America's rural radio stations are vanishing(theguardian.com)
theguardian.com
America's rural radio stations are vanishing
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/jun/06/radio-silence-how-the-disappearance-of-rural-stations-takes-americas-soul-with-them
80 comments
Even before private equity, it was very difficult for indie musicians to get their songs played on the air, due to collusion with the recording industry.
These days, running AM or FM radio is inefficient and a waste of power. It doesn't take kilowatts and microwave links to blanket an area with coverage. I think the failure is not coming up with a viable digital replacement that works on cell towers. I know that streaming works fine, but there's no centralized system, or parallel representation that's freely broadcast from cell towers. This would have been a prime opportunity for the FCC to force cell companies to provide a certain number of free broadcast channels (that work even without cell service) to serve the community. Just like how they force TV and radio stations to play community service shows on Sunday morning.
These days, running AM or FM radio is inefficient and a waste of power. It doesn't take kilowatts and microwave links to blanket an area with coverage. I think the failure is not coming up with a viable digital replacement that works on cell towers. I know that streaming works fine, but there's no centralized system, or parallel representation that's freely broadcast from cell towers. This would have been a prime opportunity for the FCC to force cell companies to provide a certain number of free broadcast channels (that work even without cell service) to serve the community. Just like how they force TV and radio stations to play community service shows on Sunday morning.
Deregulation enabled Clear Channel to effectively monopolize terrestrial radio finance was the tool but without deregulation it would have been legally impossible.
The phrase "financial pollution" recently came to mind in the context of foreign investors buying and sitting on real estate and driving up costs for local residents. I think the phrase may apply to a lot of things.
Keynes seems to have been right about the problems of "saving beyond planned investment." It seems to create even more problems than he imagined. A little of it does end up finding interesting important ventures but most of it is big dumb money that chases bubbles or gets parked in socially destructive rent seeking operations. Money is made for some investors but the overall ROI for civilization is a net negative; making money by destroying wealth.
Keynes seems to have been right about the problems of "saving beyond planned investment." It seems to create even more problems than he imagined. A little of it does end up finding interesting important ventures but most of it is big dumb money that chases bubbles or gets parked in socially destructive rent seeking operations. Money is made for some investors but the overall ROI for civilization is a net negative; making money by destroying wealth.
You are describing legalized money laundering designed to tie up money and keep it out of circulation.
It will keep inflation away until it doesn’t, as some day the consequences of printing money will be felt. One of the most negative influences of civilization has been people hoarding wealth, and we’re reverting to an environment that empowers that.
It will keep inflation away until it doesn’t, as some day the consequences of printing money will be felt. One of the most negative influences of civilization has been people hoarding wealth, and we’re reverting to an environment that empowers that.
You'll only feel the consequences of printing money if productivity and population stop rising, and seeing as how the earth in infinitely large, I don't see that happening!
Population is leveling off. Only developing nations are still growing in general. Your assumption, as those printing money, is equally flawed.
Money printing was a hack to deal with the economic money supply problems caused by the crazy population growth of the 19th and 20th centuries.
> making money by destroying wealth.
http://artbrock.com/blog/magical-power-objects-and-sociopath...
http://artbrock.com/blog/magical-power-objects-and-sociopath...
Local radio stations of my childhood did one thing that no streaming service could provide... community. Not the "fake" online community crap. You got the news of your community. You learned the away high school basketball game had been rescheduled. You learned about crimes that may have happened in your community. It helped get local news out in a town that had a weekly newspaper. You got to hear fascinating stories from old timers in your community. Oh and there was music thrown in for good measure :)
While this is true, since nowawadays you can just get all of that information off your smart-phone, broadcasting such information no longer brings enough listeners to support a station.
Though to be honest, I don't even know what brings listeners to radio these days -- the only radio I listen to is 20 seconds in the morning before my car's infotainment system finishes booting and connects to my phone and then I can ask it to play just about any song/genre/playlist I want to, or ask for a news briefing, or the weather, etc. I used to listen to the station with the best traffic reports, but I don't even need that since my phone map will tell me about traffic backups ahead and even reroute me around it automatically
Though to be honest, I don't even know what brings listeners to radio these days -- the only radio I listen to is 20 seconds in the morning before my car's infotainment system finishes booting and connects to my phone and then I can ask it to play just about any song/genre/playlist I want to, or ask for a news briefing, or the weather, etc. I used to listen to the station with the best traffic reports, but I don't even need that since my phone map will tell me about traffic backups ahead and even reroute me around it automatically
> nowawadays you can just get all of that information off your smart-phone
Really, where? When it comes to super-local specific, curated information, I find it really hard to duplicate what you used to get from local radio stations. You certainly have all the different bits and pieces, but IMO not in a way that curates it to a consistent view, and sense of community, the way radio used to.
Really, where? When it comes to super-local specific, curated information, I find it really hard to duplicate what you used to get from local radio stations. You certainly have all the different bits and pieces, but IMO not in a way that curates it to a consistent view, and sense of community, the way radio used to.
Twitter.
My local school district posts an events calendar, school closures, lunch menus, etc on their website. Students/families can also subscribe to an alert system that will notify them immediately about important events.
My hometown paper publishes their police blotter online, that includes pretty much every police call including car breakins and kitten rescues.
The paper also publishes also publishes local interest stories, interviews, etc.
They don't publish the paper every day any more and it's in tabloid format now instead of broadsheet, but the online site is up to date.
Google maps gives me real-time traffic updates, Waze will tell me if there's construction or a dead animal on the road ahead.
So it's not all in one place, but it's all on my phone, and available on demand, I don't have to wait until the top of the hour to find out if there's an accident on my route to work.
My hometown paper publishes their police blotter online, that includes pretty much every police call including car breakins and kitten rescues.
The paper also publishes also publishes local interest stories, interviews, etc.
They don't publish the paper every day any more and it's in tabloid format now instead of broadsheet, but the online site is up to date.
Google maps gives me real-time traffic updates, Waze will tell me if there's construction or a dead animal on the road ahead.
So it's not all in one place, but it's all on my phone, and available on demand, I don't have to wait until the top of the hour to find out if there's an accident on my route to work.
and that explains why it's not as useful. I think just the act of having someone deliver it to you constitutes the connection. And having "every police call including kitten rescues" is a bug, not a feature. Too much information is just as bad as not enough.
and that explains why it's not as useful
I can get the information on demand 24x7 from anywhere in the world, that seems more useful than having someone read it to me at scheduled times on the radio where if I don't happen to be listening at that time, I miss it.
If I have to work through the high school football game (or am out of town) and want to know the score when I come home, I can pull up the school's webpage at 11pm to see the score, I don't need to tune in at 7am the next morning to hear the local news.
If there's a water leak and school is closed early, I don't have to be listening to the radio all day to hear the announcement or wait for my child to call me, I'll get an SMS (and/or phone call or email or app alert) and I can already be on my way home to meet her.
Too much information is just as bad as not enough
This is a rural area, my typical hometown police blotter column includes 4 or 5 incidents (including the occasional kitten rescues and lost cow found wandering downtown). That's hardly too much information. And back when they did read this information on our local AM station, they included the same information (our family dog made the police report on the radio when she was reported on the local highway and returned home by police)
I can get the information on demand 24x7 from anywhere in the world, that seems more useful than having someone read it to me at scheduled times on the radio where if I don't happen to be listening at that time, I miss it.
If I have to work through the high school football game (or am out of town) and want to know the score when I come home, I can pull up the school's webpage at 11pm to see the score, I don't need to tune in at 7am the next morning to hear the local news.
If there's a water leak and school is closed early, I don't have to be listening to the radio all day to hear the announcement or wait for my child to call me, I'll get an SMS (and/or phone call or email or app alert) and I can already be on my way home to meet her.
Too much information is just as bad as not enough
This is a rural area, my typical hometown police blotter column includes 4 or 5 incidents (including the occasional kitten rescues and lost cow found wandering downtown). That's hardly too much information. And back when they did read this information on our local AM station, they included the same information (our family dog made the police report on the radio when she was reported on the local highway and returned home by police)
>nowawadays you can just get all of that information off your smart-phone
Nowadays you can get all of that information off you smart-phone, but what about people that have no Internet access, no cable, no smart phone, and no regular access to any information services other than broadcast media due to cost?
I have an aunt (by marriage) that can't afford a computer, can't afford a cell phone beyond a very basic feature phone, can't afford mobile data, couldn't afford the Internet even if she had a computer, and certainly can't afford a newspaper subscription. She listens to the local radio station for her small town to keep informed about what is going on, and occasionally goes to the local library to check her email to talk to her nieces and nephews who seem to be calling less and less lately because "everybody has a smartphone and Aunt Connie can see what they're doing on Facebook".
There is a significant section of the population that relies on broadcast media to get information about their community. The fact that you do not does not mean that locally-owned, locally-focused broadcasters are a waste.
Nowadays you can get all of that information off you smart-phone, but what about people that have no Internet access, no cable, no smart phone, and no regular access to any information services other than broadcast media due to cost?
I have an aunt (by marriage) that can't afford a computer, can't afford a cell phone beyond a very basic feature phone, can't afford mobile data, couldn't afford the Internet even if she had a computer, and certainly can't afford a newspaper subscription. She listens to the local radio station for her small town to keep informed about what is going on, and occasionally goes to the local library to check her email to talk to her nieces and nephews who seem to be calling less and less lately because "everybody has a smartphone and Aunt Connie can see what they're doing on Facebook".
There is a significant section of the population that relies on broadcast media to get information about their community. The fact that you do not does not mean that locally-owned, locally-focused broadcasters are a waste.
There is a significant section of the population that relies on broadcast media to get information about their community. The fact that you do not does not mean that locally-owned, locally-focused broadcasters are a waste.
I never said they were a waste, I just pointed out that they (like newspapers) are much less relevant to most people than they used to be, which is why they are dying and getting bought up.
The low-income people that can't afford a cell phone or home internet, are not the kind of listeners than can support an advertising supported radio station.
One solution could be for the government to subsidize local broadcast stations, though I think a better solution would be to subsidize internet access (or even smart phones) because those without internet connectivity miss out on a lot more than the highschool football scores, and no subsidized radio station will improve that.
I never said they were a waste, I just pointed out that they (like newspapers) are much less relevant to most people than they used to be, which is why they are dying and getting bought up.
The low-income people that can't afford a cell phone or home internet, are not the kind of listeners than can support an advertising supported radio station.
One solution could be for the government to subsidize local broadcast stations, though I think a better solution would be to subsidize internet access (or even smart phones) because those without internet connectivity miss out on a lot more than the highschool football scores, and no subsidized radio station will improve that.
I think all you grumpy commenters in here are nostalgic af! I hated radio in my youth. It was 20 minutes of the same songs followed by another 20 minutes of commercials. The same playlists over and over, and really the only value-add were the DJs talking to you. Then once radio stations caught on to that, they shifted to shock-jocks that really went overboard. I mean look at Howard Stern, he grew out of that shift.
If Live Nation and CBS radio didn't buy up all the radio stations in the 90s, they probably would have vanished one by one as people moved on to iPods and CDs for consumption.
Both Apple Music and Spotify have playlists of every conceivable genre and of every mood you could possibly be in. Want to listen to bad elevator cover songs? You can find it! There shouldn't be any problem with music discovery at this point. I'm constantly finding new music from all kinds of artists.
For everything else, DJs in the morning, shock-jocks, talk radio, those are served by Podcasts. Once again, every possible genre, from murder mysteries, to local news, it's all there. Maybe your small community doesn't have a replacement podcast yet, but that doesn't mean it can't exist. The barrier to entry is so low that I imagine it's only a matter of time.
If Live Nation and CBS radio didn't buy up all the radio stations in the 90s, they probably would have vanished one by one as people moved on to iPods and CDs for consumption.
Both Apple Music and Spotify have playlists of every conceivable genre and of every mood you could possibly be in. Want to listen to bad elevator cover songs? You can find it! There shouldn't be any problem with music discovery at this point. I'm constantly finding new music from all kinds of artists.
For everything else, DJs in the morning, shock-jocks, talk radio, those are served by Podcasts. Once again, every possible genre, from murder mysteries, to local news, it's all there. Maybe your small community doesn't have a replacement podcast yet, but that doesn't mean it can't exist. The barrier to entry is so low that I imagine it's only a matter of time.
This article is about 20 years too late.
Back in the late 1990's, I worked for a rural radio station -- they were in the process of moving to full automation, and was working on getting the country station in full automation: I had a background in Audio/Video Productions (and computers/electronics), so, I spent a lot of time working on the automation (old Harris Automation System, vs the rest of the cluster using AudioVault from BEI).
There was someone in the studio from 5AM Until Midnight (sometimes later if there were west coast ballgames) Monday-Friday: We'd do the news at the top and bottom of the hour (each station in the cluster got sent back to network audio at different times -- 4:15, 6:00, 6:30 after the hour, which required some really good pacing and reading skills to not let the other stations know you're pushing something back to network), cut live and recorded weather for other stations, and then answer the phone/distribute faxes/etc.
I learned a lot about RF and Broadcast engineering during this time, and it honestly was the catalyst to push me into electrical and computer engineering (admittedly, restoring a VAX/VMS with the station engineer was the biggest driver).
I can identify a "Satellite" station from a mile away. The liners sound different -- if they even match up -- the clocks at the top and the bottom of the hour are sync'ed with :30:00 and 00:00.
Sunday mornings was religious programming (the "hangover" shift), and we'd do Friday night Football for High School and Saturday/Sunday College and Professional Football games, and Basketball games during the winter months. Add in some NASCAR and Indy racing (on the country music station), and there were plenty of weeks where I had 50/60/70 hours (at 17, I thought I was financially set -- lest I know that I was completely wrong!)
To this day, the group of stations that I grew up with are still using split ownership to get past FCC rules about station clustering (but, all ran out of the same building).
Back in the late 1990's, I worked for a rural radio station -- they were in the process of moving to full automation, and was working on getting the country station in full automation: I had a background in Audio/Video Productions (and computers/electronics), so, I spent a lot of time working on the automation (old Harris Automation System, vs the rest of the cluster using AudioVault from BEI).
There was someone in the studio from 5AM Until Midnight (sometimes later if there were west coast ballgames) Monday-Friday: We'd do the news at the top and bottom of the hour (each station in the cluster got sent back to network audio at different times -- 4:15, 6:00, 6:30 after the hour, which required some really good pacing and reading skills to not let the other stations know you're pushing something back to network), cut live and recorded weather for other stations, and then answer the phone/distribute faxes/etc.
I learned a lot about RF and Broadcast engineering during this time, and it honestly was the catalyst to push me into electrical and computer engineering (admittedly, restoring a VAX/VMS with the station engineer was the biggest driver).
I can identify a "Satellite" station from a mile away. The liners sound different -- if they even match up -- the clocks at the top and the bottom of the hour are sync'ed with :30:00 and 00:00.
Sunday mornings was religious programming (the "hangover" shift), and we'd do Friday night Football for High School and Saturday/Sunday College and Professional Football games, and Basketball games during the winter months. Add in some NASCAR and Indy racing (on the country music station), and there were plenty of weeks where I had 50/60/70 hours (at 17, I thought I was financially set -- lest I know that I was completely wrong!)
To this day, the group of stations that I grew up with are still using split ownership to get past FCC rules about station clustering (but, all ran out of the same building).
our radio stations are vanishing, period, into a siriusXM and ClearChannel morass of repetitive hell. NPR affiliates (KEXP, etc) and college radio stations (WZBC, WRCT) keep the flame alive but they’re all that’s left.
I still dearly miss the stations of my youth, which were crucial venues for hip hop culture (HOT97) and alt rock (KROCK, WFNX, ... ) in a way that youtube and soundcloud and bandcamp just aren’t.
I still dearly miss the stations of my youth, which were crucial venues for hip hop culture (HOT97) and alt rock (KROCK, WFNX, ... ) in a way that youtube and soundcloud and bandcamp just aren’t.
There's plenty of terrible radio around, but Sirius isn't the cause.
In fact, IMO, Sirius is the savior of radio. It's where all the really good radio talent went when terrestrial radio was mostly turned into garbage. Most of the biggest names in radio from the 60's through the 90's are there.
People balk at paying for Sirius, but there is real quality entertainment there. It's not an iPod pretending to be radio like streaming services. It's actual radio, with on-air talent, and an ever-expanding library of original content.
Even on what you might think are low-interest channels like the 40's channel, or the Sinatra channel, or the Jimmy Buffet channel, or Tom Petty channel, there are new shows made daily, live concerts, and all kinds of things that "real" radio used to do, but gave up in favor of automation.
There are even hyper-niche channels like one that plays Carolina Shag (coastal North and South Carolina music from the 50's and 60's), or the one that's all independent Canadian music, or half a dozen stand-up comedy channels. Or something that I enjoy way more than I'd like to admit: Yacht Rock, which is the kinds of music that you'd imagine that a couple named Chad and Buffy would play on their yacht off the coast of Montauk. Or as the channel describes itself, "Everyone's fifth or sixth favorite soft rock songs from the 70's and 80's."
There's still excellent terrestrial radio, but you have to seek it out. WXRT/Chicago, KCSN/Northridge, KING-FM-HD2/Seattle, and KGFN/Goldfield leap to mind, but there are others.
The rise of Citicasters/Jacor/Clear Channel is what made me quit radio. But these few holdouts (some even corporate-owned!) are still producing quality radio, and if you can't find something to listen to on Sirius, then I don't know what to say.
/ Worked for 10 years in radio on-air and behind the scenes
/ Happy Sirius subscriber
In fact, IMO, Sirius is the savior of radio. It's where all the really good radio talent went when terrestrial radio was mostly turned into garbage. Most of the biggest names in radio from the 60's through the 90's are there.
People balk at paying for Sirius, but there is real quality entertainment there. It's not an iPod pretending to be radio like streaming services. It's actual radio, with on-air talent, and an ever-expanding library of original content.
Even on what you might think are low-interest channels like the 40's channel, or the Sinatra channel, or the Jimmy Buffet channel, or Tom Petty channel, there are new shows made daily, live concerts, and all kinds of things that "real" radio used to do, but gave up in favor of automation.
There are even hyper-niche channels like one that plays Carolina Shag (coastal North and South Carolina music from the 50's and 60's), or the one that's all independent Canadian music, or half a dozen stand-up comedy channels. Or something that I enjoy way more than I'd like to admit: Yacht Rock, which is the kinds of music that you'd imagine that a couple named Chad and Buffy would play on their yacht off the coast of Montauk. Or as the channel describes itself, "Everyone's fifth or sixth favorite soft rock songs from the 70's and 80's."
There's still excellent terrestrial radio, but you have to seek it out. WXRT/Chicago, KCSN/Northridge, KING-FM-HD2/Seattle, and KGFN/Goldfield leap to mind, but there are others.
The rise of Citicasters/Jacor/Clear Channel is what made me quit radio. But these few holdouts (some even corporate-owned!) are still producing quality radio, and if you can't find something to listen to on Sirius, then I don't know what to say.
/ Worked for 10 years in radio on-air and behind the scenes
/ Happy Sirius subscriber
I like Sirius, or at least 3 or 4 stations. Enough to make the fees palatable.
What's almost UNpalatable is the audio quality: my Audi has the Sirius decoder, and it's notably awful. 17-32k stream according to Wikipedia. I guess some of the XM radios have higher rates. It's awful.
What's almost UNpalatable is the audio quality: my Audi has the Sirius decoder, and it's notably awful. 17-32k stream according to Wikipedia. I guess some of the XM radios have higher rates. It's awful.
I’m with you. My Mini with 10 speaker Harmon Kardon audio and a free three month Siruis sub has made me realize Sirius audio quality is horrible. Mostly still listen to HQ Spotify with my premium sub. It might be better using SiriusXM’s app and doing data but I like being my own DJ.
Plus I get dropouts in south metro Denver area on Sirius and never on Spotify using Verizon.
Plus I get dropouts in south metro Denver area on Sirius and never on Spotify using Verizon.
YES! the tinny audio quality is a total deal breaker. I don’t understand how people stand it.
This is what I noticed, all the good talent from my childhood is on SiriusXM and I for one enjoy the DJ chat and history between songs.
But there seems to be a large segment of population that just want to listen to a playlist with no interuptions.
I still feel that the DJ and radio are the best form of music discovery especially on Sirius where they can stray away from the top 100
But there seems to be a large segment of population that just want to listen to a playlist with no interuptions.
I still feel that the DJ and radio are the best form of music discovery especially on Sirius where they can stray away from the top 100
I rented a car for a long trip that had a Sirius (or XM, is there a difference?) subscription, and I really liked it - no dropouts in hilly areas where my phone loses cell signal, and their curated content was a nice change of pace from my own playlists.
If my car had a satellite receiver, I'd probably subscribe to it for my commute.
If my car had a satellite receiver, I'd probably subscribe to it for my commute.
Sirius and XM merged into SiriusXM programing wise today there is no difference between the two bands and mostly XM is pushed because its a superior signal/sat system.
It’s different in the country and far worse. The consolidation of all things has vaporized advertising business in small markets.
That means there is nothing. No daily/weekly newspaper, no radio. Just Jesus and a clear channel affiliate playing a national soundtrack. (And they are fiscal timebombs too.)
Basically, you live in a different country if you aren’t in a top-50/too-100 market. That’s one of the big drivers of reactionary politics.
That means there is nothing. No daily/weekly newspaper, no radio. Just Jesus and a clear channel affiliate playing a national soundtrack. (And they are fiscal timebombs too.)
Basically, you live in a different country if you aren’t in a top-50/too-100 market. That’s one of the big drivers of reactionary politics.
We like them because of nostalgia. They were awful compared to what you can find these days online and in podcast form.
As a child I remember radio being the same 11 songs and a ton of ads.
As a child I remember radio being the same 11 songs and a ton of ads.
In some cases... One thing I think also contributes is that a lack of access creates want. Having instant access to things makes them a bit less magical. I notice this a lot with my son, he has access to tons of media so he takes most of them for granted. However we don't allow unsupervised youtube so in his mind it's become the forbidden fruit that his friends all have. Every time he gets to watch some gaming streamer he gets really excited and lights up in the same way that we did when that 12th song the radio never played came on :)
Someone once said to me, "my kids can watch the Grinch Christmas special any time they want. So it's not special anymore."
I completely agree.
I completely agree.
Definitely not true. There was a clear and obvious difference when the large broadcasters starting buying up and consolidating all the local stations. You're childhood was likely after that had happened.
What do you think they contributed in your youth?
Apart from high-quality spoken-word content (like Radio 3 and Radio 4), most radio stations are playing music which I could listen to elsewhere, in higher quality, when I want, and then they add some super low quality filler chat in between. Plus adverts!
What do you miss from them? Just that was the only way to access music back then?
Apart from high-quality spoken-word content (like Radio 3 and Radio 4), most radio stations are playing music which I could listen to elsewhere, in higher quality, when I want, and then they add some super low quality filler chat in between. Plus adverts!
What do you miss from them? Just that was the only way to access music back then?
I don't feel this is true. Think of the best DJs as curators, yes a lot will be the same, but DJs will help you discover new music and discuss that music too.
The legendary John Peel of BBC Radio 1 being a good example.
I still listen to BBC Radio 6 these days for the same reason, good way to find new music and to be introduced to genres you may never be exposed to by an echo-chamber algo in your favourite music app.
The legendary John Peel of BBC Radio 1 being a good example.
I still listen to BBC Radio 6 these days for the same reason, good way to find new music and to be introduced to genres you may never be exposed to by an echo-chamber algo in your favourite music app.
What we seem to be missing now is things like .. a lot of the artists (70s-80s "dad rock") I listen to have "the BBC sessions" LPs - or even better, The Peel Sessions. I've lost track of the number of artists that made it because Peel found them and gave them that spotlight.
Being able to play whatever you want, whenever you want, is indeed fantastic. I'm not sure I'd want to go backwards from here either. But we've solved availability, I don't think we've solve discovery - I don't think algorithmically generated playlists replace John Peel. They seem to solve "everyone else has found X and you haven't", they don't solve "X haven't been found". So we end up back in this trap of "finding" the music the labels have decided to promote, rather than the artists that deserve to be found.
Being able to play whatever you want, whenever you want, is indeed fantastic. I'm not sure I'd want to go backwards from here either. But we've solved availability, I don't think we've solve discovery - I don't think algorithmically generated playlists replace John Peel. They seem to solve "everyone else has found X and you haven't", they don't solve "X haven't been found". So we end up back in this trap of "finding" the music the labels have decided to promote, rather than the artists that deserve to be found.
As a poor kid in the 80's, I couldn't really afford music. Most of what I had was recorded on cassette tapes from OTA broadcasts from a nearby college station. They would even, late at night, play full albums from time to time and cue you on when to press record, flip the tape, etc. The quality was shit, of course, but I didn't have much better to compare it to.
I did the same, but on reel-to-reel. Finally got a boom box, then switched to cassette. I remember the dual deck boom boxes, threw the recording industry into a tizzy.
My youth did not include high quality on demand free or minimially expensive music and/or music discovery services that were not a FM radio (or MTV).
Independent radio stations have DJs and a culture around them that foster new music and support independent musicians.
To pick an example, Hot97 was _the_ voice of the bronx (literally, in the case of angie martinez) and the east coast hip hop scene from more or less the beginning. DJs would meet or be introduced to or know of local artists, get their demo tapes on the air, and launched major careers as a result.
Independent radio stations have DJs and a culture around them that foster new music and support independent musicians.
To pick an example, Hot97 was _the_ voice of the bronx (literally, in the case of angie martinez) and the east coast hip hop scene from more or less the beginning. DJs would meet or be introduced to or know of local artists, get their demo tapes on the air, and launched major careers as a result.
Yeah but now people have thousands and thousands of DJ’s to choose from.
and the vast majority of them suck!
that probably makes me a grouchy old man, but the fragmentation and personalization of music does actually lead to a dilution.
that probably makes me a grouchy old man, but the fragmentation and personalization of music does actually lead to a dilution.
And you think that major careers cannot be launched via Spotify or YouTube or any of a dozen other options?
This just feels like one of those “things are different” situations where nothing is better or worse, but simply not the way it was.
This just feels like one of those “things are different” situations where nothing is better or worse, but simply not the way it was.
I miss the curation of music they provided (though college stations partially fill that gap) and local news (which has been systematically and intentionally dismantled by policy changes made in DC).
Lack of local news has done tons of damage to the US, since it greatly reduces the accountability of politicians, and awareness of local issues.
Lack of local news has done tons of damage to the US, since it greatly reduces the accountability of politicians, and awareness of local issues.
> Just that was the only way to access music back then?
It wasn't the only way to access music back then. You had recorded media and live music.
I'm not actually from around that time but I've been playing around with a Walkman recently. For me it started as retro foppery but I noticed a few distinct differences:
- You're not in total control of the radio. You can pick the station you like but you can't reorder the playlist, select specific tracks, rewind, or repeat anything. This evokes a feeling of surrender, of "letting go." While listening to the radio, you're freed from the responsibility of curating your own collection and selecting the best music for the occasion.
- Much more than the targeted algorithms of services like Spotify, you're at the mercy of the DJ. Compared to the algorithm, there's absolutely more of a connection there. If you enjoy what's on the radio, then you're sharing that enjoyment with the DJ. It's a direct analog precursor to the "space of flows," a pleasurable social bond formed between two people who don't share physical space or even traditional spoken word conversation.
- You're off the grid. The radio doesn't track your favorite artists or your location. It doesn't correlate your listening habits with your recent purchases. This makes the experience feel more elective. When you can decide to turn something on, that means you can decide to turn it off. It's different from our always-on, always-connected everyday experience.
- The endless sea of digital media sometimes induces analysis paralysis. The bigger your MP3 library, the more mental resources you must dedicate to mentally searching for the music most appropriate to your mood and surroundings. Narrowing your selection to a handful of radio stations, each one playing only a single song at a time until it ends, frees up a lot of mental resources.
- Paradoxically, being exposed to music you don't like actually refines your taste. Further, suffering through a bad song on the radio heightens your anticipation of the next song, and if you end up enjoying the next song it's a huge, satisfying relief. Compared to Spotify where you can skip past an unsatisfying song, or be reasonably sure the next song will be more to your liking based on whether you just skipped, the emotional experience is more varied and granular. It's more exciting. It's also closer to reality: contrary to what the countless ads and offers claim, you can't always get what you want and you won't always be satisfied. Annoyance, boredom, dissatisfaction, and disappointment are going to find you eventually. There's nothing better for practicing acceptance of life's unpleasant, unskippable moments than suffering through a terrible song on the radio.
It wasn't the only way to access music back then. You had recorded media and live music.
I'm not actually from around that time but I've been playing around with a Walkman recently. For me it started as retro foppery but I noticed a few distinct differences:
- You're not in total control of the radio. You can pick the station you like but you can't reorder the playlist, select specific tracks, rewind, or repeat anything. This evokes a feeling of surrender, of "letting go." While listening to the radio, you're freed from the responsibility of curating your own collection and selecting the best music for the occasion.
- Much more than the targeted algorithms of services like Spotify, you're at the mercy of the DJ. Compared to the algorithm, there's absolutely more of a connection there. If you enjoy what's on the radio, then you're sharing that enjoyment with the DJ. It's a direct analog precursor to the "space of flows," a pleasurable social bond formed between two people who don't share physical space or even traditional spoken word conversation.
- You're off the grid. The radio doesn't track your favorite artists or your location. It doesn't correlate your listening habits with your recent purchases. This makes the experience feel more elective. When you can decide to turn something on, that means you can decide to turn it off. It's different from our always-on, always-connected everyday experience.
- The endless sea of digital media sometimes induces analysis paralysis. The bigger your MP3 library, the more mental resources you must dedicate to mentally searching for the music most appropriate to your mood and surroundings. Narrowing your selection to a handful of radio stations, each one playing only a single song at a time until it ends, frees up a lot of mental resources.
- Paradoxically, being exposed to music you don't like actually refines your taste. Further, suffering through a bad song on the radio heightens your anticipation of the next song, and if you end up enjoying the next song it's a huge, satisfying relief. Compared to Spotify where you can skip past an unsatisfying song, or be reasonably sure the next song will be more to your liking based on whether you just skipped, the emotional experience is more varied and granular. It's more exciting. It's also closer to reality: contrary to what the countless ads and offers claim, you can't always get what you want and you won't always be satisfied. Annoyance, boredom, dissatisfaction, and disappointment are going to find you eventually. There's nothing better for practicing acceptance of life's unpleasant, unskippable moments than suffering through a terrible song on the radio.
> There's nothing better for practicing acceptance of life's unpleasant, unskippable moments than suffering through a terrible song on the radio.
Do we really need to practice for that? I would say that you are right that we can’t always have what we want, but at least in streaming music we are quite close to that (depending on tastes, some genres are quite underrepresented).
Personally I prefer to keep small isles of life without unpleasantness.
Do we really need to practice for that? I would say that you are right that we can’t always have what we want, but at least in streaming music we are quite close to that (depending on tastes, some genres are quite underrepresented).
Personally I prefer to keep small isles of life without unpleasantness.
I used to listen to the (Dutch) radio when I did my homework in the '80s. There was much less choice than there is nowadays which meant that a fair portion of my class mates also ended up listening to whatever program I'd listen to, leading to a shared common ground. The program I mostly listened to ("De Avondspits" (The evenening rush hour) hosted by a fairly well-spoken DJ by the name of "Frits Spits") was tailored to school-age youth and played a mixture of styles larded with spoken word (people could send lymericks [1] which related a song for the chance of winning some trinket) and call-in competitions. Sitting up there in my room doing my homework the radio, knowing that my classmates and others were also sitting somewhere doing their homework while listening to the same program gave a sense of being part of... something. Nothing big and earth-shattering, just a bit more than the drudge of sitting there doing homework. This being the Netherlands there were no commercials, other than a short block around the hour.
Of course I could also listen to my own music back then: play a mix tape or some records. I could get records at the library which I subsequently taped. While not comparable to the width and breadth of choice offered by official and 'pirate' online options now it still was a form of choice. It is just that, sometimes, it is nice not to have to make a choice other than switching the thing on, turning down the volume when some song comes by which doesn't pass the muster.
There were more programs like this: "Het Betonuur" ("beton" means concrete, they played hard rock etc.), "Stampij" (also hard rock), "De LP show" (a prosaic name which means "The LP (record) show", playing tracks of newer prog/symphonic rock/experimental artists), "Superclean Dream Machine" (even weirder music hosted by an ever weirder person), etc. I often had my tape recorder at the ready to record anything worthwhile.
I can now play the music which I heard back then at a moment's notice by using any of the online venues available to me. In many ways this is an improvement, but...
Imagine walking over a beach and finding a diamond in the sand. That would be an amazing discovery, something you'd remember for the rest of your life. Remember when you found that diamond back then? Remember what you were doing, with whom you were doing it, what came after?
Now imagine walking over a beach where there is no sand any more, only diamonds. They're everywhere, littering the streets, hiding under the thrash can. You pick one up and look at it: a diamond, big deal. You drop it and walk on...
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerick_(poetry)
Of course I could also listen to my own music back then: play a mix tape or some records. I could get records at the library which I subsequently taped. While not comparable to the width and breadth of choice offered by official and 'pirate' online options now it still was a form of choice. It is just that, sometimes, it is nice not to have to make a choice other than switching the thing on, turning down the volume when some song comes by which doesn't pass the muster.
There were more programs like this: "Het Betonuur" ("beton" means concrete, they played hard rock etc.), "Stampij" (also hard rock), "De LP show" (a prosaic name which means "The LP (record) show", playing tracks of newer prog/symphonic rock/experimental artists), "Superclean Dream Machine" (even weirder music hosted by an ever weirder person), etc. I often had my tape recorder at the ready to record anything worthwhile.
I can now play the music which I heard back then at a moment's notice by using any of the online venues available to me. In many ways this is an improvement, but...
Imagine walking over a beach and finding a diamond in the sand. That would be an amazing discovery, something you'd remember for the rest of your life. Remember when you found that diamond back then? Remember what you were doing, with whom you were doing it, what came after?
Now imagine walking over a beach where there is no sand any more, only diamonds. They're everywhere, littering the streets, hiding under the thrash can. You pick one up and look at it: a diamond, big deal. You drop it and walk on...
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerick_(poetry)
I'm from the US. As this thread implies, our radio has almost been entirely lost to automation. I've switched entirely to listening to the Dutch NPO stations since they still have live DJs, bands live in the studio, interviews, and concerts.
I've even learned enough Dutch to understand the NOS news segments at the top of the hour.
For my sake, don't also lose your own radio. The separation of station from broadcasters is quirky and unique, but likely the reason it's still actually good.
I've even learned enough Dutch to understand the NOS news segments at the top of the hour.
For my sake, don't also lose your own radio. The separation of station from broadcasters is quirky and unique, but likely the reason it's still actually good.
> in a way that youtube and soundcloud and bandcamp just aren’t.
For you. My daughter finds new non-pop music just fine.
For you. My daughter finds new non-pop music just fine.
I'm in NYC and while I'm not into hip hop I remember driving around in a delivery van with this gnarly dude listening to KRock and Q104.3. It was the same damn song over and over again on Q104.3, same hendrix, beatles, zeplin, doors, etc, etc. you could listen to that station for one day and hear all it has to offer. The the ads, talk about a cacophony of awful noise. Couldn't stand it. KRock was the same in its later years though I remember remember a time when it didn't suck as much. But again, the ads were awful.
Though the best rock station around (90's/00's) was the NJ college station 89.5 WSOU, Seton Hall's Pirate Radio. Hard Rock, Punk, Hard core, Metal, etc. Awesome station if you could receive it, almost impossible to listen to in a car. I listened via hooking the roof antenna to an FM amplifier and then to my Harmon Kardon receiver I rescued from the trash and repaired. I'd to tune in, run a cassette on record and mix down the songs I liked later on. Another treat used to be this DJ, a woman with a thick european accent who played black and death metal on monday nights, Monday Night Mayhem. Discovered so many great bands from that station. Never got old, never played out the same damn metallica song like Krock. Instead you got Pantera, Meshuggah, Megadeth, Gwar, Gojira (Back when they were still Godzilla), Sick of It all, Life of Agony, and a ton more. Then at some point I stopped listening for one reason or another, there was also a big format change too. It's still around though haven't tuned in for years.
Now I just keep the radio tuned to WQXR, the public classical radio station. No ads but the pleas for donation can get a bit annoying at times. Though I have donated. Then I get my fill of weird music from roaming around peoples bandcamp profiles. You can find all sorts of stuff on there. Rock, metal, noise, electronic, you name it.
Though the best rock station around (90's/00's) was the NJ college station 89.5 WSOU, Seton Hall's Pirate Radio. Hard Rock, Punk, Hard core, Metal, etc. Awesome station if you could receive it, almost impossible to listen to in a car. I listened via hooking the roof antenna to an FM amplifier and then to my Harmon Kardon receiver I rescued from the trash and repaired. I'd to tune in, run a cassette on record and mix down the songs I liked later on. Another treat used to be this DJ, a woman with a thick european accent who played black and death metal on monday nights, Monday Night Mayhem. Discovered so many great bands from that station. Never got old, never played out the same damn metallica song like Krock. Instead you got Pantera, Meshuggah, Megadeth, Gwar, Gojira (Back when they were still Godzilla), Sick of It all, Life of Agony, and a ton more. Then at some point I stopped listening for one reason or another, there was also a big format change too. It's still around though haven't tuned in for years.
Now I just keep the radio tuned to WQXR, the public classical radio station. No ads but the pleas for donation can get a bit annoying at times. Though I have donated. Then I get my fill of weird music from roaming around peoples bandcamp profiles. You can find all sorts of stuff on there. Rock, metal, noise, electronic, you name it.
You might like WFMU (especially if you're into weirder things) which you should be able to pick up on 91.9FM if you're in the NYC area.
> Then at some point I stopped listening for one reason or another, there was also a big format change too.
Just realized it was when napster came about plus the format change eliminated a lot of the metal so I got bored with it. Plus I discovered so much more music on napster and even got a bit more into industrial and other electronic genres.
Just realized it was when napster came about plus the format change eliminated a lot of the metal so I got bored with it. Plus I discovered so much more music on napster and even got a bit more into industrial and other electronic genres.
XM has a hip-hop station concentrating on what's popular. Also a station concentrating on what's indie and up-and-coming. A station with nothing but rap from 1980-2000something. There's also a modern R&B station which has considerable crossover with the popular hip-hop station. And there's a 70s & 80s funk station which helps people discover the original songs that have been sampled to hell and back. As an added bonus, there's a Korean station which sometimes plays hip hop from there. I also sometimes hear French and Quebecois rap on one of the Canadian stations.
That's far more variety than what you'd get from a local radio station.
Youtube gives you almost every song ever made. Soundcloud gives you so many great unknown and indie artists. Bandcamp also gives you a huge & worldwide selection of independent rappers, and will help you discover them via their excellent blog.
And, for hip hop specifically, there's Datpiff and all the other sites hosting mixtapes.
I can understand being nostalgic for the stations of your youth, but it pales considerably compared to what's available now.
That's far more variety than what you'd get from a local radio station.
Youtube gives you almost every song ever made. Soundcloud gives you so many great unknown and indie artists. Bandcamp also gives you a huge & worldwide selection of independent rappers, and will help you discover them via their excellent blog.
And, for hip hop specifically, there's Datpiff and all the other sites hosting mixtapes.
I can understand being nostalgic for the stations of your youth, but it pales considerably compared to what's available now.
I miss the pre-merger XM. Back when I was a subscriber you could listen for several days and hear virtually no repeats on a single station, there was a depth to the song selections that exposed me to lots of new artists. There were actual DJs on the air and there were only a few minutes worth of commercials per hour.
I recently had a SiriusXM trial and it seems like all the stations now have a fixed playlist that's limited to around 60 songs at a time, it was very much like domestic radio and it wasn't uncommon to hear the same song played multiple times in the same day.
Granted, it's still significantly better than local radio (RDU MSA doesn't even have a hard rock or modern rock station) I just can't justify spending money on it when I already have streaming capabilities via my phone - but I do miss the curated content of a human actually into the material.
I recently had a SiriusXM trial and it seems like all the stations now have a fixed playlist that's limited to around 60 songs at a time, it was very much like domestic radio and it wasn't uncommon to hear the same song played multiple times in the same day.
Granted, it's still significantly better than local radio (RDU MSA doesn't even have a hard rock or modern rock station) I just can't justify spending money on it when I already have streaming capabilities via my phone - but I do miss the curated content of a human actually into the material.
I dunno; they’ve just been replaced with curated Spotify playlists and podcasts.
Hip hop culture exists on Instagram today, but it’s become a sociopathic mix of Wall Street values, luxury brand product placement and gang violence. Gucci has transformed gang wars into product sales that make rappers rich. Getting rich is the only goal.
Hip hop culture exists on Instagram today, but it’s become a sociopathic mix of Wall Street values, luxury brand product placement and gang violence. Gucci has transformed gang wars into product sales that make rappers rich. Getting rich is the only goal.
Reading this article brought to mind one of my favorite radio stations, WOJB. It's located in rural northern Wisconsin. I live in Minnesota outside of its broadcasting range, but I always look forward to listening to it on my trips to visit my relatives who live in the upper peninsula of Michigan.
The first time I listened to it the DJ had his 4 year old daughter with him in the studio and during one of the breaks she asked him to sing her favorite song. He obliged and it was some depressing country song, but towards the end she joined in enthusiastically, breaking the tension. It was very heartwarming. That is my favorite radio memory and the kind of radio you don't get from corporate stations.
After that I looked the station up and learned that it was founded to bridge the divide between the Native American and white populations of the region between whom there were significant racial tensions. I can't speak to whether it did or not, but it certainly seems like it has. One year while driving through I caught a live broadcast of a pow-wow which was a delightful surprise.
A few years ago I was driving through the area and I couldn't pick them up. The next town I got to I stopped to look up the station to see if I had just forgotten the right frequency but it turned out that their transmitter had broken and needed a complete replacement. In the end it took them about a year to raise the funds to buy and install the new transmitter and I think they are still operating at reduced power because their antenna needs to be replaced (which is apparently in part what caused the original transmitter to break). It just goes to show how fragile these institutions that can form the pillars of communities can be.
They do broadcast online, but I find that when I'm not traveling I mostly listen to local stations here in Minneapolis. Minneapolis is almost certainly a beneficiary of the policies the article cites as the cause of the decline of rural radio. Radio here is as vibrant and alive as it's ever been (at least that I've been around). I have 6 different public stations that all have different programming in my car presets and there are many more commercial stations I listen to on occasion. The FM dial is completely packed (I don't think there are any open frequencies right now) and the AM dial is pretty full as well. I just wish this did not come at the expense of my rural neighbors (and I don't think it has to).
The first time I listened to it the DJ had his 4 year old daughter with him in the studio and during one of the breaks she asked him to sing her favorite song. He obliged and it was some depressing country song, but towards the end she joined in enthusiastically, breaking the tension. It was very heartwarming. That is my favorite radio memory and the kind of radio you don't get from corporate stations.
After that I looked the station up and learned that it was founded to bridge the divide between the Native American and white populations of the region between whom there were significant racial tensions. I can't speak to whether it did or not, but it certainly seems like it has. One year while driving through I caught a live broadcast of a pow-wow which was a delightful surprise.
A few years ago I was driving through the area and I couldn't pick them up. The next town I got to I stopped to look up the station to see if I had just forgotten the right frequency but it turned out that their transmitter had broken and needed a complete replacement. In the end it took them about a year to raise the funds to buy and install the new transmitter and I think they are still operating at reduced power because their antenna needs to be replaced (which is apparently in part what caused the original transmitter to break). It just goes to show how fragile these institutions that can form the pillars of communities can be.
They do broadcast online, but I find that when I'm not traveling I mostly listen to local stations here in Minneapolis. Minneapolis is almost certainly a beneficiary of the policies the article cites as the cause of the decline of rural radio. Radio here is as vibrant and alive as it's ever been (at least that I've been around). I have 6 different public stations that all have different programming in my car presets and there are many more commercial stations I listen to on occasion. The FM dial is completely packed (I don't think there are any open frequencies right now) and the AM dial is pretty full as well. I just wish this did not come at the expense of my rural neighbors (and I don't think it has to).
I love WOJB! I go up into northern WI for an annual trip every year and it's always a highlight when we get in range. Wondered why it was so much harder to pick up this year.
I especially love some of the late night DJs...eclectic music tastes that I don't ever hear elsewhere on the radio.
I especially love some of the late night DJs...eclectic music tastes that I don't ever hear elsewhere on the radio.
I just learned the other day that the last college station I DJ'd at was sold to Public Radio, long ago.
Commercial radio? Given the facility, equipment, antenna, license, electricity, that's just the start. A one-person operation is almost impossible, even if you're independently wealthy and have the technical chops. But if all you've got is automation? the 'community' part is hopeless ... might as well be 'iHeart' (hah!)
'People' radio is unavoidably a people-intensive operation. How do you fill 16 hours a day with sound? That's 4 four-hour shifts. Every. Day. Assume you've somehow found 3 volunteers, each with a personal record collection. How many people will you find to interview in a town of 3000-10000? Who's going to sell quality advertising? Who's going to produce it? Who's going to manage the business side? Climb the tower?
Sad it is, but that model is over. Mr. Lucke is the one fanatic in a town of 3000 - I salute him, Behringer console and all.
But community radio has headed in a different direction, and across the US is finding ways. For anyone interested in what is still working, across the US, check out the Radio Survivor podcasts. (These guys know their stuff.) http://www.radiosurvivor.com/category/podcast/
Commercial radio? Given the facility, equipment, antenna, license, electricity, that's just the start. A one-person operation is almost impossible, even if you're independently wealthy and have the technical chops. But if all you've got is automation? the 'community' part is hopeless ... might as well be 'iHeart' (hah!)
'People' radio is unavoidably a people-intensive operation. How do you fill 16 hours a day with sound? That's 4 four-hour shifts. Every. Day. Assume you've somehow found 3 volunteers, each with a personal record collection. How many people will you find to interview in a town of 3000-10000? Who's going to sell quality advertising? Who's going to produce it? Who's going to manage the business side? Climb the tower?
Sad it is, but that model is over. Mr. Lucke is the one fanatic in a town of 3000 - I salute him, Behringer console and all.
But community radio has headed in a different direction, and across the US is finding ways. For anyone interested in what is still working, across the US, check out the Radio Survivor podcasts. (These guys know their stuff.) http://www.radiosurvivor.com/category/podcast/
It is disgusting that all cell phones don't have an AM and FM receiver.
Radios in phones are an underappreciated feature. I just moved and didn't have internet access at my new home and I got a lot of use out of the fm radio in my moto g6 since I didn't want to use up my data.
Most phones have a radio antenna, it's just not a default application feature for whatever reason.
If you're running an android phone, you should be able to enable a radio with little trouble.
If you're running an android phone, you should be able to enable a radio with little trouble.
Related: A New Proposal Looks To Loosen Radio Ownership Rules
https://www.npr.org/2019/06/07/730323196/one-more-scoop-of-v...
https://www.npr.org/2019/06/07/730323196/one-more-scoop-of-v...
Hello. My family needs help. The Guardian article was written and investigated for almost 8 months. They are Mark and Tristan Lucke. The situation is extremely important. Please go to willcoxradio com for complete story . Today the temperature is high there. Fire smoke from the mountain is coming into the station. Mark isnt well because of this. The town of Willcox is looking the other way. The world news isn't. We really need help with this. My email is merluck63@ gmail.com. l help with everything to help them. My family needs help with getting this problem fixed before it is to late.Thank you for sharing this news. We truly appreciate it.Mercedez Lucke- Lucke-Benedict
http://www.radio-browser.info/ - great service with many clients. Just type any city in search and hear the local radio right now. It's kind of traveling, very funny - hear the local news of places where you never been.
I had to join this to make sure my message was sent. Bless you all with love if anyone and everyone can reach out to Mark and Tristan . There has to be a way to stop this criminal 51% owner that Mark has to deal with. Everything was great brfire this happened. The station flourished. KHIL was global. Fans across the world. Now it is a huge mess and my family is suffering. It gets worse as the heat elevates. There must be something that can be done. No lawyers will touch this without money and there is none. I give half my salary to help them. Anyone? Can you help? Please share the articles. There are many more now . Mercedez Lucke-Benedict
Why isn't streaming filling this void? I remember back when winamp made it easy to receive live streams from hundreds of broadcasters. Is that still a thing? Broadband wasn't very broad back then, either, so the tech should be perfect for rural areas where connectivity is spotty.
Ah, Shoutcast. It will always hold a special place in my heart [0], if only because it reminds me of a more care-free time in my life.
But in addition to the complexities of licensing if you want your stream to be legal, it seems to me that there's at least one flaw in the design. To receive an uninterrupted Shoutcast stream, you have to have a persistent, unbroken TCP connection with the server. IIUC, this is a recipe for frequent interruptions on mobile. I think that Apple's HTTP Live Streaming and MPEG DASH have the right idea; instead of an actual stream, you get chunks of media from an HTTP server, based on a playlist. In Apple HLS, that playlist is even a variant of the Winamp .m3u format. I understand that these systems are primarily used for video, but I wonder if any radio stations use HLS or DASH for their online streams. Of course, the downside of these systems is higher latency, but that might not be so bad [1].
[0]: One of my first real projects in Python was Supercast (http://supercast.sourceforge.net/), a Shoutcast-compatible server. I was also a DJ on the Internet radio station for which I wrote that server. Not a particularly good one, mind you, but it was fun for a little while.
[1]: Back when I was into Shoutcast, I did think the latency of large buffers was a bad thing. One difference between Shoutcast and my Supercast server was that Supercast didn't send an initial large audio buffer to each listener. But priorities change sometimes, and now I think it's more important to avoid drop-outs.
But in addition to the complexities of licensing if you want your stream to be legal, it seems to me that there's at least one flaw in the design. To receive an uninterrupted Shoutcast stream, you have to have a persistent, unbroken TCP connection with the server. IIUC, this is a recipe for frequent interruptions on mobile. I think that Apple's HTTP Live Streaming and MPEG DASH have the right idea; instead of an actual stream, you get chunks of media from an HTTP server, based on a playlist. In Apple HLS, that playlist is even a variant of the Winamp .m3u format. I understand that these systems are primarily used for video, but I wonder if any radio stations use HLS or DASH for their online streams. Of course, the downside of these systems is higher latency, but that might not be so bad [1].
[0]: One of my first real projects in Python was Supercast (http://supercast.sourceforge.net/), a Shoutcast-compatible server. I was also a DJ on the Internet radio station for which I wrote that server. Not a particularly good one, mind you, but it was fun for a little while.
[1]: Back when I was into Shoutcast, I did think the latency of large buffers was a bad thing. One difference between Shoutcast and my Supercast server was that Supercast didn't send an initial large audio buffer to each listener. But priorities change sometimes, and now I think it's more important to avoid drop-outs.
iHeartRadio streams support both HLS and Shoutcast. You can find the stream info for each station embedded in a JSON object on the stream page. For example, for a iHeartRadio station that I listen to occasionally, there's the following:
"streams":{
"hls_stream":"http://c8.prod.playlists.ihrhls.com/609/playlist.m3u8",
"shoutcast_stream":"http://c8icyelb.prod.playlists.ihrhls.com/609_icy",
"pivot_hls_stream":"https://us.api.iheart.com/api/v3/adswizzhls/redirect.m3u8?url=https%3A%2F%2Fc8.prod.playlists.ihrhls.com%2F609%2Fplaylist.m3u8&marketId=51",
"secure_hls_stream":"https://c8.prod.playlists.ihrhls.com/609/playlist.m3u8",
"secure_shoutcast_stream":"https://c8icy.prod.playlists.ihrhls.com/609_icy"
}Interesting, thanks. So, I'm not crazy to think that using HLS for audio might be worthwhile. I wonder if iHeart does it for robustness over mobile connections, or just browser compatibility (particularly with iOS Safari).
That secure Shoutcast stream is an interesting mix of old and new. It has the expected "icy-" HTTP headers, but it's using HTTP/2 and, of course, HTTPS. The fact that it even returns a valid response for an HTTP HEAD request puts it ahead of real Shoutcast and Icecast streams in terms of standards compliance. It looks like iHeart has their own streaming server.
That secure Shoutcast stream is an interesting mix of old and new. It has the expected "icy-" HTTP headers, but it's using HTTP/2 and, of course, HTTPS. The fact that it even returns a valid response for an HTTP HEAD request puts it ahead of real Shoutcast and Icecast streams in terms of standards compliance. It looks like iHeart has their own streaming server.
All the licensing overhead of a Spotify, all the market opportunities of "Bob's Gas Station and Deli".
Because most cars aren't fitted with cellular connections to stream? And most people don't actually want to play with a phone while driving. Tesla's got it nailed down with their radio interface. Everybody else is cumbersome or you have to wake your phone to bluetooth pair and then fuck with your phone.
> Everybody else is cumbersome or you have to wake your phone to bluetooth pair and then fuck with your phone.
uh, i've got a years old subaru where i just turn on the engine, and by the time i've backed out of the driveway, it is playing music over bluetooth. phone stays in my pocket the whole time.
uh, i've got a years old subaru where i just turn on the engine, and by the time i've backed out of the driveway, it is playing music over bluetooth. phone stays in my pocket the whole time.
I still miss WOXY https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WOXY.com (It wasn't rural but it was bought by a corporate station).
I listen to a good amount of radio but most of it is "radio" since I listen to it online. I could pick up the local NPR station but it is just easier to listen online. The local music radio stations are either country, religious or corporate (like JACKfm) so I listen to The Current https://www.thecurrent.org/ online for a couple hours a day most days.
A good one and a great one, while they last:
Good https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHVW
Great https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/WKHR
Good https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHVW
Great https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/WKHR
You could have written this same article 80 years ago.
DrJones1098(1)
I’d start a hobby, classical station. The local KPR (Kansas) is pretty much classical, but is polluted with the drivel from NPR. Instead of advertisements. You can’t go thirty seconds without hearing the name “Trump”
We're going to eventually look back and wonder how much damage the rise of private equity and modern finance has done to so many things that were once of such high quality. Financial engineering is distorting the original intent of market forces and leaving more and more consumers with an inferior product.