Aquarius builds an engine others only dreamed of(haaretz.com)
haaretz.com
Aquarius builds an engine others only dreamed of
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.MAGAZINE-a-little-startup-that-could-aquarius-builds-an-engine-others-only-dreamed-of-1.8984355
56 comments
>"The difference is in the electronics that control it. What's happened in the recent past is that there's now sufficient processing bandwidth at a low price that can tolerate top of engine conditions, so you can actually put real time control on top of these motors."
is something a non EE person would say about another branch of science he is totally unfamiliar with. We had 40GB consumer Hard drives 20 years ago. 20GB per platter, 7200 RPM. Now think for a second what precision of timing you need in a hard drive versus mechanical engine. We are talking ~50 nm/bit, ~250 nm/track, ~100K TPI, >500Mbit internal transfer. The level of precision required to control engine valves more accurately than mechanical means (cams) was achieved in consumer off the shelf ~$200 hard drive controllers around 1995.
is something a non EE person would say about another branch of science he is totally unfamiliar with. We had 40GB consumer Hard drives 20 years ago. 20GB per platter, 7200 RPM. Now think for a second what precision of timing you need in a hard drive versus mechanical engine. We are talking ~50 nm/bit, ~250 nm/track, ~100K TPI, >500Mbit internal transfer. The level of precision required to control engine valves more accurately than mechanical means (cams) was achieved in consumer off the shelf ~$200 hard drive controllers around 1995.
That was a quote from the CEO of the company who makes the thing.
Fast precision proportional valves for ordinary compressed air have been available since the 1990s. I once had to price some. Price was over $1000 each. They're now a moderate volume product from Festo and others, and precision positioning of pneumatic cylinders is available. It's still not common.
Automotive valve actuation has all the same problems, plus pushing back against big forces from the combustion process and operating through the entire under the hood temperature range. A solenoid-type actuator for this needs considerable power. Schemes with pneumatic and hydraulic power to drive the valve have been used on some race cars. Plus there are little problems; neodymium magnets start to weaken around the boiling point of water, a temperature easily reached on top of an engine block.
There's now a supercar using this technology.[1] It may filter down to less expensive vehicles.
It's an obvious idea that turns out to be quite hard to make work. Study guide: [2]
[1] https://cecas.clemson.edu/cvel/auto/systems/valve-timing.htm...
[1] https://www.freevalve.com/
Fast precision proportional valves for ordinary compressed air have been available since the 1990s. I once had to price some. Price was over $1000 each. They're now a moderate volume product from Festo and others, and precision positioning of pneumatic cylinders is available. It's still not common.
Automotive valve actuation has all the same problems, plus pushing back against big forces from the combustion process and operating through the entire under the hood temperature range. A solenoid-type actuator for this needs considerable power. Schemes with pneumatic and hydraulic power to drive the valve have been used on some race cars. Plus there are little problems; neodymium magnets start to weaken around the boiling point of water, a temperature easily reached on top of an engine block.
There's now a supercar using this technology.[1] It may filter down to less expensive vehicles.
It's an obvious idea that turns out to be quite hard to make work. Study guide: [2]
[1] https://cecas.clemson.edu/cvel/auto/systems/valve-timing.htm...
[1] https://www.freevalve.com/
I fully agree with everything you said about this being a big electro-mechanical challenge, but the dude pointed squarely at the controller with "processing bandwidth...real time control" quote.
If you approach the control problem the way a modern programmer would - read position sensor, adjust actuator current - you need some control loop running at some speed like 100KHz or higher. Probably doing floating point calculations. So you need a powerful CPU.
If you didn't have that, you might have to do the valve fine position control with analog hardware controlled by the digital system. That's how daisy-wheel printers controlled the daisy position. And you might have to have hardware timers for triggering events, like SOiC systems with PWM drivers. That's what you'd probably do if you were making a million cars.
If you're making 300 supercars, just throw some very fast CPU at the problem and let it do all the work. You'll never see the extra $20-$100 or so per car in the sticker price of a supercar. You can get hardware for automotive environments with that performance now. 15 years ago, you couldn't.
If you didn't have that, you might have to do the valve fine position control with analog hardware controlled by the digital system. That's how daisy-wheel printers controlled the daisy position. And you might have to have hardware timers for triggering events, like SOiC systems with PWM drivers. That's what you'd probably do if you were making a million cars.
If you're making 300 supercars, just throw some very fast CPU at the problem and let it do all the work. You'll never see the extra $20-$100 or so per car in the sticker price of a supercar. You can get hardware for automotive environments with that performance now. 15 years ago, you couldn't.
>modern programmer would - read position sensor, adjust actuator current - you need some control loop running at some speed like 100KHz or higher. Probably doing floating point calculations
Modern programmer would make sure to do those floating point calculations in an ISR too ;-). Cars have been fine with lookup tables and interpolation. If you can precisely control spark, you could valves as well.
As for hardware requirements. Afaik control always outraced controlled business end. Lets take Honda for example, all their ECUs from 92 (P05) onward had full facility to drive individual coil on plug, but officially Honda switched away from mechanical distributor in 1999 (S2000?). You can trivially convert 92 car with a small adapter board, ECUs shipped with all the needed hardware sitting unused for 7 years.
Modern programmer would make sure to do those floating point calculations in an ISR too ;-). Cars have been fine with lookup tables and interpolation. If you can precisely control spark, you could valves as well.
As for hardware requirements. Afaik control always outraced controlled business end. Lets take Honda for example, all their ECUs from 92 (P05) onward had full facility to drive individual coil on plug, but officially Honda switched away from mechanical distributor in 1999 (S2000?). You can trivially convert 92 car with a small adapter board, ECUs shipped with all the needed hardware sitting unused for 7 years.
I think the issue here is more about the operating temperature of the semi-conductors. It's only recently that chips running at 400 C (?) using silicon carbide or Gallium Nitride semi-conductors has been practical and cheap enough. So these electronics can be integrated right into the motor without extensive cooling.
This same technology is having an even more dramatic impact on High Voltage Direct Current (HVDC) transmission lines where costs have been dropping very quickly.
This same technology is having an even more dramatic impact on High Voltage Direct Current (HVDC) transmission lines where costs have been dropping very quickly.
Again, author of the quote was talking specifically about the controller part. Car ECUs use off the shelf semiconductors. ECU module is usually mounted inside the cabin under the dash.
According to Konigsegg they have a camless valve control system ready to go. They plan to sell 300 such engines in their new Gemera grand touring car this year.
They did not talk about oil and how it lubricates itself. Only that it magically does not need oil changes. It is a two stroke engine and two stroke engines do not need oil changes, but that is for a very bad reason, environmentally-wise.
Two stroke engines do need oil changes because you are supposed to mix in the oil with the fuel and they just burn the oil and get new oil when new fuel comes in. This is very bad for the environment because burning lubricant is very bad for pollution. It is also costly because you have to pay for much more lubricant.
Perhaps Nokia figured out that it would be much cheaper for them to burn oil rather than occasionally send people to remote locations to service engines. This may be true but they should not pretend this is environmentally friendly. It isn't.
If you are older you may remember how gross and foul smelling two stroke lawn mowers used to be back in the times. We don't need to bring this back.
Two stroke engines do need oil changes because you are supposed to mix in the oil with the fuel and they just burn the oil and get new oil when new fuel comes in. This is very bad for the environment because burning lubricant is very bad for pollution. It is also costly because you have to pay for much more lubricant.
Perhaps Nokia figured out that it would be much cheaper for them to burn oil rather than occasionally send people to remote locations to service engines. This may be true but they should not pretend this is environmentally friendly. It isn't.
If you are older you may remember how gross and foul smelling two stroke lawn mowers used to be back in the times. We don't need to bring this back.
I was also wondering about this claimed lack of oil from a different perspective.
Based on the article, the video embedded within it, and the Technology section of Aquarius' website, this is a double-acting uniflow two-stroke internal combustion engine. As it is double-acting, there is combustion on both sides of the piston, so I am wondering how the piston is cooled, especially given the high power density of this device.
In conventional IC piston engines, the piston is either cooled by the oil [1], or, in the case of small two strokes having a total-loss lubrication system (the sort that the parent post is concerned with) piston cooling is aided by the flow of the incoming mixture through the crankcase. Neither method seems to be feasible here. Has there been a breakthrough in materials (ceramics, perhaps?) which allow for a piston to work at high temperatures?
One other point that just occurred to me is that if you are using a total-loss, combustible lubricant design (which is what conventional gasoline two-strokes do), then the efficiency calculation must include the energy input of the lubricant as well as the gasoline (or whatever is being used purely as a fuel), as the lubricant is also a fuel.
[1] https://dieselnet.com/tech/combustion_piston-cool.php
Based on the article, the video embedded within it, and the Technology section of Aquarius' website, this is a double-acting uniflow two-stroke internal combustion engine. As it is double-acting, there is combustion on both sides of the piston, so I am wondering how the piston is cooled, especially given the high power density of this device.
In conventional IC piston engines, the piston is either cooled by the oil [1], or, in the case of small two strokes having a total-loss lubrication system (the sort that the parent post is concerned with) piston cooling is aided by the flow of the incoming mixture through the crankcase. Neither method seems to be feasible here. Has there been a breakthrough in materials (ceramics, perhaps?) which allow for a piston to work at high temperatures?
One other point that just occurred to me is that if you are using a total-loss, combustible lubricant design (which is what conventional gasoline two-strokes do), then the efficiency calculation must include the energy input of the lubricant as well as the gasoline (or whatever is being used purely as a fuel), as the lubricant is also a fuel.
[1] https://dieselnet.com/tech/combustion_piston-cool.php
In the video [0] it doesn't show combustion occurring on both sides of the pistons.
[0] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26PjRQmIoeE
[0] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26PjRQmIoeE
That appears to be an earlier iteration, as (one of) the videos embedded in the article does show it to be double-acting, as does the one in the Technology section of the website [1], where it can be seen at 00:34 and 00:42.
[1] https://www.aquariusengines.com/technology/
[1] https://www.aquariusengines.com/technology/
This looks like video jacking. The description talks about acquarius, but the video is about a completely different free piston system being developed by a research group at newcastle university.
The article specifically states combustion is on one side only, the video's visual is a little misleading.
Not all two-strokes have "total loss" lubrication --- only crankcase-scavenged ones do. Larger ones, and notably two-stroke diesels, don't.
That said, this one may need minimal lubrication since in a free-piston generator, both ends are combustion chambers, the only place there is sliding friction is between the cylinder wall and the piston, and the "secret" to their success may be some sort of ultra-hard-wearing material for those surfaces.
That said, this one may need minimal lubrication since in a free-piston generator, both ends are combustion chambers, the only place there is sliding friction is between the cylinder wall and the piston, and the "secret" to their success may be some sort of ultra-hard-wearing material for those surfaces.
Another possibility is using a magnetic bearing, i.e. using magnetic forces to hold the shaft without touching the cylinder.
Yup, two stroke engines are phasing out. Some places have banned them years ago, like Lake Tahoe. I grew up with dirt bikes, and two strokes were the most powerful and fun.
The Stanford version uses air lubricant seems much more advanced, and single combustion instead of dual.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSPRT1JAXj4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSPRT1JAXj4
This video touts air bearings, but it says nothing about how the pistons rings (or equivalent seals) work without lubrication.
I am not particularly impressed with the prospects for vehicle range extension. All-electric seems like The Way To Go at this point. But improved efficiencies for a home backup generator seem like a potentially really great thing.
Agree, even then hopefully better home battery storage removes the need for any fossil fuel based engine at all.
Wouldn't an electric car with an efficient generator under the hood be the best of both worlds? Totally eliminates the range problem.
Yeah generators are really the "killer app" for this
Chuckled when I read they had a difficult time trying to talk with car companies. In Detroit 2020 isn't different than 1950 in one aspect: not big believers if not-invented-here. However if they can steal the idea like intermittent windshield wipers they'll adapt the idea, but not quickly.
"Not invented here" isn't a big issue with automakers, unless you're talking about Tesla. Most automakers license core technology (i.e., engine, chassis designs, etc.) from other companies. Many of them license technology from their competitors or even co-develop their tech. The primary driver is cost. They couldn't care less who developed the tech if it saves them enough money (or brings in more money, if it's a saleable feature).
Tesla is the only company that insists on reinventing everything from scratch, even at the cost of grossly overpaying.
Tesla is the only company that insists on reinventing everything from scratch, even at the cost of grossly overpaying.
That's cause Telsa has the culture of Elon, similar to SpaceX. All their success derives from rethinking traditional automakers.
You are only supposed to drink the kool-aid, not marinate in it.
You could also argue that they're getting better at building things from scratch by practicing with the mundane stuff. It's not a complete waste.
I doubt that's the issue here. The problem is that there are a lot of quacks in the space who don't know what they're doing, as well actual competent engineers where the design they're trying to perfect is a dead end.
Extreme skepticism is generally wise - this engine just turned out to be the rare exception.
Extreme skepticism is generally wise - this engine just turned out to be the rare exception.
Also check out Koenigsegg's Tiny Friendly Giant (TFG) 2l three cylinder twin turbo that makes 600hp and 443lbft of torque: https://www.koenigsegg.com/gemera/tiny-friendly-giant-engine...
It is really cool to see these advancements happening in engine design.
It is really cool to see these advancements happening in engine design.
I assumed most of the trick was that the car costs a million dollars or so.
"The total output (of the hybrid system) is a combined 1700 bhp or 1.27 MW of power and 3500 Nm of torque."
Is that torque at the wheel? If it's at the engine, who cares? It won't show up after the gears.
"The total output (of the hybrid system) is a combined 1700 bhp or 1.27 MW of power and 3500 Nm of torque."
Is that torque at the wheel? If it's at the engine, who cares? It won't show up after the gears.
That design uses a single gear instead a traditional transmission.
https://www.koenigsegg.com/gemera/tiny-friendly-giant-engine...
https://www.koenigsegg.com/gemera/tiny-friendly-giant-engine...
I know it's great that engine efficiency is getting better, but this is still working using old, crude principles. Combustion engines are the equivalent of analog in computing and engine makers still need to reach their digital "Eureka!" moment.
The gas turbine is [226 years old][0]! Computing on the other hand has seen significant change from [Charle Babbabe's mechanical computer][1], to vacuum tubes, transistors and (hopefully within the next 50 years) quantum computers.
Hopefully with progress in batteries and clean energy generation, we'll see the death of the great polluters before the end of the century. We can (and should) do better.
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_combustion_engine#His...
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer#First_computing_devic...
The gas turbine is [226 years old][0]! Computing on the other hand has seen significant change from [Charle Babbabe's mechanical computer][1], to vacuum tubes, transistors and (hopefully within the next 50 years) quantum computers.
Hopefully with progress in batteries and clean energy generation, we'll see the death of the great polluters before the end of the century. We can (and should) do better.
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_combustion_engine#His...
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer#First_computing_devic...
[deleted]
I wonder how clean burning this engine is. Normal 2-stroke engines burn oil along with gasoline so emit many more particulates than 4-stroke engines, but this seems to require less oil than a 4-stroke.
34% efficiency on their first tests? That would be a huge deal. Microturbines have similar benefits (few moving parts, long lifetime, etc), but they only realize 30% efficiency on the high end.
34% is not that impressive...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake-specific_fuel_consumptio...
Gas turbines and 2-stroke diesels can have over 50% efficiency.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake-specific_fuel_consumptio...
Gas turbines and 2-stroke diesels can have over 50% efficiency.
Could this be useful for medium to long-range aviation as an intermediate step before battery densities become more viable?
Medium to long range aviation doesn't use ICEs, so no probably not. Aviation gas turbines have had efficiencies >50% for a decade already anyway.
How would airplanes use a battery here? Are they going back to using an external propeller, that’s tied to an electric motor, and powered by the extra dense battery packs?
It seems to generate quite a bit of vibration, even if you couple two of them in an alternating way you just change the vibration from parallel to the pistons to perpendicular to the pistons. It's not as easy to balance as a rotary engine.
It's not for vehicles though. It's for power generation. I guess you could use it in a vehicle, but I think it's intended for stationary use.
Anybody care to suggest an accurate and neutral title, so we can replace the baity one?
Archive for those with ad blockers: http://archive.is/R7VlA
Does anyone have any thoughts on how you extract the mechanical energy from a two sided piston?
In this configuration you aren't extracting the mechanical energy, instead it's being converted into alternating current through a linear solenoid coil. The energy leaves as electricity.
Thank you!
There are some double-acting diesels used for marine propulsion, and, as in the double-acting pistons of steam locomotives, a conventional crank mechanism, with the connecting rod connected to the piston rod outside of the cylinder, is used.
Here, however, it seems they extract electrical energy by moving a magnet back and forth in a coil.
https://www.instructables.com/id/Shake-Flashlight-1/
Here, however, it seems they extract electrical energy by moving a magnet back and forth in a coil.
https://www.instructables.com/id/Shake-Flashlight-1/
Hopefully they'll make it into automobiles some day.
If this was invented 20 years ago, it would be ok, but now with Tesla basically taking over the market not just with cars, but solar, insurance, SpaceX, communication, network of electric charging station, batteries ... Tesla is taking over not just one market but the entire market (pumps, wells, communication, transport, all...)
Tesla is currently putting fear in bones of other car manufacturing companies, I think now they are on high alert/panic mode. We will see how all this pan out.
That's what Tesla is known for but not the brands people know for these things.
Most people haven't heard of Tesla for solar panels. In Europe most people don't know Tesla at all.
Most people haven't heard of Tesla for solar panels. In Europe most people don't know Tesla at all.
I cannot agree about last Europe statement if we talk about 28 EU countries they are quite aware of Tesla. In Germany there is new Gigafactory and Norway has a massive explosion of Tesla cars on the roads. If you check the map https://www.tesla.com/nl_BE/supercharger?redirect=no you will see that network is already covering, entire Western Europe...
Norway is special.
Norway has no domestic car industry (not even major component suppliers) and about 100% (yes, you read that right) taxes on cars.
Electric cars are exempt from tax in Norway, so it doesn't matter if you buy a $20,000 ICE or a $40,000 Tesla. In addition you don't have to pay toll, annual road tax, public parking fees,and may use bus lanes.
So with all these incentives in place, it's no wonder Teslas sell like hot cakes in Norway (other EVs like Nissan Leaf and VW eGolf, too, by the way).
Every other market than BEV is practically non-existent for Tesla in Europe. Even in the BEV market, Tesla is ranked 3rd (with the exception of Norway) in terms of market share - behind European and Asian brands.
So unknown - no, dominating? Hell no!
Norway has no domestic car industry (not even major component suppliers) and about 100% (yes, you read that right) taxes on cars.
Electric cars are exempt from tax in Norway, so it doesn't matter if you buy a $20,000 ICE or a $40,000 Tesla. In addition you don't have to pay toll, annual road tax, public parking fees,and may use bus lanes.
So with all these incentives in place, it's no wonder Teslas sell like hot cakes in Norway (other EVs like Nissan Leaf and VW eGolf, too, by the way).
Every other market than BEV is practically non-existent for Tesla in Europe. Even in the BEV market, Tesla is ranked 3rd (with the exception of Norway) in terms of market share - behind European and Asian brands.
So unknown - no, dominating? Hell no!
You have to have electrical control on all the valves. There's no camshaft and no place for one. Electrical control of engine valves has been a dream for a long time, but the actuators were a problem. Someone finally built a working engine in 2018 with total software control of all valves.[3] The valve people say "Electromechanically, you could look at it and ask 'why didn't you do that 20 years ago? The difference is in the electronics that control it. What's happened in the recent past is that there's now sufficient processing bandwidth at a low price that can tolerate top of engine conditions, so you can actually put real time control on top of these motors."
This will probably all work commercially about the time everybody switches to electric cars.
The parent article is lacking in solid "why ours is better than the other people who already did this" information.
[1] https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a6326/out-of-turn-t...
[2] https://youtu.be/u4b0_6byuFU
[3] https://newatlas.com/camcon-digital-iva-valve-system/55827/