It 'Might Take Weeks' to Free Ship Stuck in Suez Canal(npr.org)
npr.org
It 'Might Take Weeks' to Free Ship Stuck in Suez Canal
https://www.npr.org/2021/03/25/981128288/it-might-take-weeks-to-free-ship-stuck-in-suez-canal-salvage-company-says
54 comments
A good explanation of what's involved in fixing the situation by gCaptain (video - 25m)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqLcplXYHdA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqLcplXYHdA
My prediction after watching that video, is 2 months.
It took a REALLY long time to salvage that cruise ship that ran aground in the med and fell on it side.
It took a REALLY long time to salvage that cruise ship that ran aground in the med and fell on it side.
Here's my idea. I'm not an engineer.
First, hook up several tugboats. Second, put a couple of big ships on each side of the Ever Given, maybe a couple miles out. At the count of 3, the big ships haul ass towards the middle. It creates a huge wave that floats the Ever Given up away from the sand, and the tugboats pull it out.
It might be slightly dangerous.
First, hook up several tugboats. Second, put a couple of big ships on each side of the Ever Given, maybe a couple miles out. At the count of 3, the big ships haul ass towards the middle. It creates a huge wave that floats the Ever Given up away from the sand, and the tugboats pull it out.
It might be slightly dangerous.
The canal is only so deep and so wide. Build a caisson across the canal that is maybe 3m higher than the banks, and pump water into it.
I write software and have no experience doing what I'm suggesting.
I write software and have no experience doing what I'm suggesting.
>I write software and have no experience doing what I'm suggesting.
This should be attached to a lot of posts here.
This should be attached to a lot of posts here.
> The canal is only so deep and so wide. Build a caisson across the canal that is maybe 3m higher than the banks, and pump water into it.
I'm guessing that would take more than weeks to actually do.
I'm guessing that would take more than weeks to actually do.
just attach a couple chains to my truck and the boat, I'll pull it out for you
I was saying (jokingly) that we should send some good ol boys over there with their towing tackle. Hell there are probably dozens of them serving in the general vicinity already.
It’s the desert though. There are no anchor points to attach anything to (and for something this heavy, you’d need so many to split the force that you’d run out of blocks).
It’s the desert though. There are no anchor points to attach anything to (and for something this heavy, you’d need so many to split the force that you’d run out of blocks).
Better than my idea which was to bomb it and then clean up the pieces.
I was actually beginning to think that letting off some kind of bomb in the water would create a mini tidal wave, preferable to endangering more ships.
I think flipping the ship is a concern. They certainly don't want to end up in a worse situation.
I like the idea, but could they get enough acceleration to create more than a ripple?
As an enhancement - use multiple ships in series (there's no shortage at either end). Each ship adding a bit more more energy to the wave as it passes.
As an enhancement - use multiple ships in series (there's no shortage at either end). Each ship adding a bit more more energy to the wave as it passes.
what surprises me is that everybody seems surprised this could happen. the ever given isn't the only container ship with the potential of blocking that canal.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_container_sh...
I'm not in this business so I personally never thought about it. but it seems analogous to not maintaining backups with billions of dollars at stake.
can't wait to watch the Netflix special about how they did it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_container_sh...
I'm not in this business so I personally never thought about it. but it seems analogous to not maintaining backups with billions of dollars at stake.
can't wait to watch the Netflix special about how they did it.
They could just cut the bulbous bow part off, and sail the ship out of the canal without it. Ships have watertight bulkheads in case the bow is breached.
Cut everything they can from the inside, seal the bulkhead, then cut the outer hull from the outside, and bob's your uncle.
Then they could leave the bow embedded there as a reminder to others not to f* up.
Cut everything they can from the inside, seal the bulkhead, then cut the outer hull from the outside, and bob's your uncle.
Then they could leave the bow embedded there as a reminder to others not to f* up.
I'm wondering what how this will affect the world economy? There are estimates that usually there goes 9.6 billion dollars worth of cargo through the canal daily [0]. That means every minute it is blocked costs 4.7 million dollars. I'd guess some shipping companies have already started going around Africa. How much delay does that add and what are it's possible effects for Europe's supply chain?
0: https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2021/3/25/suez-blockage-se...
0: https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2021/3/25/suez-blockage-se...
Some time-sensitive goods that are delayed will now have replacements sent by air freight. Air freight prices will rise even further.
Lower value goods will just be delayed. Bulk cargoes especially. Expect shortages and price rises of oil, coal, iron ore, etc.
Ships will divert round Africa. That will increase fuel costs, increase shipping time by about 3 weeks, and reduce shipping capacity.
Lower value goods will just be delayed. Bulk cargoes especially. Expect shortages and price rises of oil, coal, iron ore, etc.
Ships will divert round Africa. That will increase fuel costs, increase shipping time by about 3 weeks, and reduce shipping capacity.
I know that boat is huge and that excavator is probably bigger than it looks, but why haven't they sent for a larger one or at least a second one? Seems like two operators should be able to coordinate there just fine.
I imagine the logistics of shipping the excavator is a project in itself. They may have done so, but it would certainly take time to arrive. And equipment like that is likely shipped via a boat...
A day later they’re up to $32 billion in losses. How much would it cost to bring every expert excavator and their equipment in to that location tomorrow? I bet it’s a lot less than a billion dollars.
Surely there’s one somewhere else in the province. Who cares what it might cost to buy and truck there?
Well no matter what side the excavators are on they can get to the blockage..
Part of me wonders if the idea is not so much that the one excavator is trying to free the ship, but rather that the digging is exploratory to understand more about how the ship is stuck and test whether excavation is a practical solution.
They might also be short on people they trust with doing that job.
Just a thought. Maybe they only need one right now.
I don't think we're skimping out on work and equipment here when there's hundreds of millions of dollars at stake for the canal company, hundreds of billions for the world economy, and the incalculable strategic value the canal has for the various world powers.
I don't think we're skimping out on work and equipment here when there's hundreds of millions of dollars at stake for the canal company, hundreds of billions for the world economy, and the incalculable strategic value the canal has for the various world powers.
What supply chains will most be impacted by this if it stretches to weeks?
Impact on oil should be massive I think. That canal supplies most of the oil to Europe.
I don't think that's true. You are thinking perhaps of the SUMED pipeline.
It’d be enough to raise global prices though.
oil
Back in my childhood in the 70-80's era lets say there was a question on an IQ test about just this problem.
A ship carrying a bunch of barrels of oil or whatnot is in a lock and needs to be unloaded. There is no crane and people are lazy. Given the current distance between the deck of the ship and the ground, the current draft of the ship and the triangle of its hull, and the shape and level of water in the lock....
How many barrels do you have to push over the side to lighten the boat and also raise level of water in the lock until you can unload the rest of the barrels by rolling them down a ramp to shore?
Seal up the topmost closest to density of water containers, attatch a line to them,push them off to lighten the ship and raise the level of water in the lock until the ship floats. Retrieve the cargo later. heh.
Then again, I couldn't figure out the correct answer to that spherical cow question back then and probably still can't.
You could also maybe flood the lock with oil which should be plentiful as long as it's still dense enough to be lighter than the ship. Let the ship float away on oil until it's straightened out, then clean up the oil mess and Bob's your uncle.
If only spherical cows.
A ship carrying a bunch of barrels of oil or whatnot is in a lock and needs to be unloaded. There is no crane and people are lazy. Given the current distance between the deck of the ship and the ground, the current draft of the ship and the triangle of its hull, and the shape and level of water in the lock....
How many barrels do you have to push over the side to lighten the boat and also raise level of water in the lock until you can unload the rest of the barrels by rolling them down a ramp to shore?
Seal up the topmost closest to density of water containers, attatch a line to them,push them off to lighten the ship and raise the level of water in the lock until the ship floats. Retrieve the cargo later. heh.
Then again, I couldn't figure out the correct answer to that spherical cow question back then and probably still can't.
You could also maybe flood the lock with oil which should be plentiful as long as it's still dense enough to be lighter than the ship. Let the ship float away on oil until it's straightened out, then clean up the oil mess and Bob's your uncle.
If only spherical cows.
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I've been reading costs estimates related to the situation and pretty much all of them are in Billions of USD.
If that's the case, can't they just bomb the ship and be over with it? Maybe don't even bother to unload the cargo, take the fuel and oil out, take the potentially hazardous materials out, take the high value and easily movable items out, destroy the blockage and start a clean up effort with priority of just opening the passage.
Too blunt? Well, that's how we deal with blockages all the time. Probably it is is within the realm of the military tech and operational capabilities, just a matter of cost and time making sense.
If that's the case, can't they just bomb the ship and be over with it? Maybe don't even bother to unload the cargo, take the fuel and oil out, take the potentially hazardous materials out, take the high value and easily movable items out, destroy the blockage and start a clean up effort with priority of just opening the passage.
Too blunt? Well, that's how we deal with blockages all the time. Probably it is is within the realm of the military tech and operational capabilities, just a matter of cost and time making sense.
I've seen the "Let's just blow it up" take a few times now, and it doesn't seem feasible for obvious reasons.
If you drop massive ordnance on that thing, it's going to spread debris everywhere. The canal is very shallow and narrow compared to the size of ships that traverse it. This pretty much guarantees a field of debris that will damage other ships if it isn't cleaned up. Cleaning it up will take far longer, and during that time the canal will not be usable.
If you try a targeted approach, with relatively small explosives to break the ship into pieces, then you'll have huge sunken pieces that you have to move, which will be much harder than just spending the time and effort to dig out and tug away the intact ship.
This is all way outside my area of expertise, so maybe I'm wrong. Still, I'll be surprised if blowing it up turns out to be the chosen solution.
If you drop massive ordnance on that thing, it's going to spread debris everywhere. The canal is very shallow and narrow compared to the size of ships that traverse it. This pretty much guarantees a field of debris that will damage other ships if it isn't cleaned up. Cleaning it up will take far longer, and during that time the canal will not be usable.
If you try a targeted approach, with relatively small explosives to break the ship into pieces, then you'll have huge sunken pieces that you have to move, which will be much harder than just spending the time and effort to dig out and tug away the intact ship.
This is all way outside my area of expertise, so maybe I'm wrong. Still, I'll be surprised if blowing it up turns out to be the chosen solution.
Maybe it's because I just want to see it blown up on 4K video from multiple angles but maybe there's a feasible way to break up the ship in a way that will work.
Maybe use shaped charges to detonate the containers to remove weight so that the ship can float? The containers themselves are not that large, maybe container debris in the bottom of the canal is not a big deal?
Of course I'm not an expert too, but it's entertaining to consider the more edgy solutions.
Someone else suggested to pump air into the sand/soil to cause a liquefaction that can help to unstuck the ship.
I'm sure actual expert are working on the subject, so no harm done in entertaining more extreme solutions.
Maybe use shaped charges to detonate the containers to remove weight so that the ship can float? The containers themselves are not that large, maybe container debris in the bottom of the canal is not a big deal?
Of course I'm not an expert too, but it's entertaining to consider the more edgy solutions.
Someone else suggested to pump air into the sand/soil to cause a liquefaction that can help to unstuck the ship.
I'm sure actual expert are working on the subject, so no harm done in entertaining more extreme solutions.
This a a loss distributed over many businesses.
I know, that's where the financial institutions can step in and secure some kind of fund that secures the funds for the operation through collecting it from the parties that would suffer harder if situation not resolved. Insurance companies related to the situation and all the other parties that simply lose out money by not being able to use the passage seem like good candidates to participate in the endeavour.
[deleted]
If you could pump a lot of water at high pressure and release it just off the bank where the boat is stuck you might be able to scour away the underbank while at the same time creating a slightly higher hydraulic head, kind of a standing wave or mound of water, that may float that end of the ship higher. The hydraulic jump may cause suction or cavitation that would make it harder to free the boat though.
I wonder, could you liquify the soil around the buried part of the ship by pumping air into the surrounding areas?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soil_liquefaction
> Tugboats — the largest capable of towing 160 tons
Is this a typo or have they conflated pull strength with weight? Most tugboats can obviously pull far bigger ships than that.
Is this a typo or have they conflated pull strength with weight? Most tugboats can obviously pull far bigger ships than that.
Presumably it could tug 160 tons straight up against gravity. Same way stuff gets measured with e.g. kilogram-force.
Can other ships just take the long away around? Obviously that would suck but it’s got to be faster than weeks right?
From TFA:
Shipping experts said that if the canal can't be cleared in the next 24 to 48 hours, vessels plying routes between Europe and Asia may be forced to divert around Africa — adding up to 12 days to the journey.
Shipping experts said that if the canal can't be cleared in the next 24 to 48 hours, vessels plying routes between Europe and Asia may be forced to divert around Africa — adding up to 12 days to the journey.
It adds 12 days to their journey to go around
That would depend on the journey.
One extreme is a ship going from Egypt to Egypt, with nearly 100% of the desired journey being the canal.
Another possibility is Perth to Miami. That one can easily go either way around Antarctica, and if the ship is small enough it can go eastbound through the Panama Canal.
A less extreme example would be Singapore to Boston.
One extreme is a ship going from Egypt to Egypt, with nearly 100% of the desired journey being the canal.
Another possibility is Perth to Miami. That one can easily go either way around Antarctica, and if the ship is small enough it can go eastbound through the Panama Canal.
A less extreme example would be Singapore to Boston.
I think it takes 5-6 weeks.
I've wondered if they could use explosives to dig it out
Because of the non-trivial risk of holing the hull and sinking the thing?
Suez canal blocked by a massive ship - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26560319 - March 2021 (419 comments)
Also ongoing:
Is that ship still stuck? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26585282 - March 2021 (446 comments)
Suez Canal: How are they trying to free the Ever Given? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26586278 - March 2021 (44 comments)