Why should I put my website to sleep?(nightnight.xn--q9jyb4c)
nightnight.xn--q9jyb4c
Why should I put my website to sleep?
https://www.nightnight.xn--q9jyb4c/details
101 comments
B&H is a Jewish electronics store here in NY. From sundown Friday until sundown Saturday you can't place any orders on their site, (though you can still window shop).
https://www.bhphotovideo.com
https://www.bhphotovideo.com
And here's my most awesome example: https://gossips.cafe/
(Click/tap the cup in the lower right corner if you visit outside opening hours) :-)
(Click/tap the cup in the lower right corner if you visit outside opening hours) :-)
A lot of government websites are Monday to Friday only. I like to joke that they don't even have one 9 of availability.
(e.g., https://www.irs.gov/payments/view-your-tax-account see the "Hours of availability" section)
(e.g., https://www.irs.gov/payments/view-your-tax-account see the "Hours of availability" section)
You scared me with the Mon-Fri, but actually irs is mon (morning)--sat (night) and sun (morning)--mon (unless maintenance happens). Which sounds fairly reasonable.
Are you aware of a justification for this?
Why does everything need to be 24/7?
I'm nearly speechless reading these replies.
What makes you ask this question? Is it privilege? Ignorance?
We aren't talking about a silly pet project. We're talking about important government websites that need to be available to every citizen of the US, regardless of their work schedules and obligations. Artificially restricting the hours is insane.
What makes you ask this question? Is it privilege? Ignorance?
We aren't talking about a silly pet project. We're talking about important government websites that need to be available to every citizen of the US, regardless of their work schedules and obligations. Artificially restricting the hours is insane.
Why shouldn't it be? It's a website; making it not operate 24/7 takes active effort and does not have any obvious benefit.
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Most likely updates and batch processes.
I'm still confused. I'm assuming a web frontend to a batch process enqueues things until it's time to run that process. Why can't it enqueue things 24/7?
Updates make some sense, but most situations I see things of that sort it's "X may be down for maintenance during these hours", which it usually isn't most of the time in reality.
Updates make some sense, but most situations I see things of that sort it's "X may be down for maintenance during these hours", which it usually isn't most of the time in reality.
Up until recently the Swedish tax office only permitted you to login during extended office hours.
The B&H photo video website won’t accept orders or payments during Shabbat and most Jewish holidays (except for Hanukkah).
It looks like they only close for seven Jewish holidays (Purim, Passover, Shavuot, Tisha B'Av, Rosh Hashana, Yom Kippur, and Succot)
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/find/HelpCenter/StoreInfo.jsp
That's a lot more than any other business I can think of, but it might not be a majority depending on how you count:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_holidays
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/find/HelpCenter/StoreInfo.jsp
That's a lot more than any other business I can think of, but it might not be a majority depending on how you count:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_holidays
I agree, I'd like it better if it was something like "this website it asleep" while keeping a way to access it. Maybe something like "take a peek", because I wouldn't want to make people feel bad for "waking up" the website.
As some replies pointed, "while keeping a way to access it" should be "while keeping _the_ way to access it".
Its open source! Seems like a very simple change, If you are interested I could make a fork. And there is a link to bypass it in the current version, just not with the wording you suggested.
> while keeping a way to access it
There is one.
There is one.
> I wouldn't want to make people feel bad for "waking up" the website.
Great take on user interaction and design.
If someone feels this idea seem far-fetched, think about how applications or sites make you feel when it belittles you for mistakes made in an input, dropp all your progress because you followed the misplaced button, or use the ‘cute but sad animated animal mascot’-dark pattern when you want to cancel an account.
Great take on user interaction and design.
If someone feels this idea seem far-fetched, think about how applications or sites make you feel when it belittles you for mistakes made in an input, dropp all your progress because you followed the misplaced button, or use the ‘cute but sad animated animal mascot’-dark pattern when you want to cancel an account.
The unemployment office website for my state is (or was a few years ago) closed outside business hours.
A remark for JavaScript developers: for injecting its content into the body, this script creates a dummy div (it has no attributes and is targeted by no styles), sets its innerHTML, then appends it to the body. That dummy div is actually unnecessary: Element.insertAdjacentHTML lets you achieve the same effect without it:
I have more remarks I could make, but I’ll leave it at that one. It’s the most interesting.
document.body.insertAdjacentHTML('beforeend', '<div class="nightnight">…</div>');
I have more remarks I could make, but I’ll leave it at that one. It’s the most interesting.
What are some other remarks? Please do tell!
Interesting, I've never heard of insertAdjacentHTML before. Thank you for sharing :)
Unfortunately I use Firefox with privacy.resistFingerprinting set to true. This disables leaking time zone information, so when javascript tries to query the time of day it gets a time 7 hours ahead of my actual time zone.
In other words, this function would break websites for me, the demo thinks it's night even though I haven't even had dinner yet.
In other words, this function would break websites for me, the demo thinks it's night even though I haven't even had dinner yet.
I think the demo always thinks it's night though, by design, because that's the demo.
I love resistFingerprinting, but I really wish it had a whitelist for certain data on certain sites. Maybe I want my calendar app to know what time zone I'm in!
+1. I don’t like being all or nothing.
I want to disable Timezone and System Theme anti-fingerprinting but FF gives no option.
I want to disable Timezone and System Theme anti-fingerprinting but FF gives no option.
...the same way?
Each time?
In an almost...fingerprintly unique fashion?
Each time?
In an almost...fingerprintly unique fashion?
All Firefoxes report UTC when that's turned on, so it's not that unique.
Point is, in conjunction with the other 12+ data points you're giving up, obfuscating the timezone doesn't do much for anti fingerprinting.
I think they work because of the conjunction. If lots of Firefox users give up these options, then they're not distinguishable from each other. Of course I know this is a cat and mouse game. But I'm siding with the mouse.
It’s pretty condescending to be told to go to sleep by a website. It’s 22:44.
Seriously. Many of us access sites when we can, not necessarily when we want. I know there's a bypass feature, but being greeted by this kind of nannying reminder can come across as annoying, at the least, to a certain nocturnal group of folks (ex. hospital staff, parents of newborns, security guards, etc.).
I don't think this is meant for such sites but I can def see a benefit for social, news, or other "addictive" sites that might be detrimental to people's mental health.
IOS, Android, and at least Macos have the ability to help users restrict the time they spend on an application, but doing so on the web is not as simple. In chrome I'm using "Intention" which is a nice extension that does something similar but for only the sites I've added to a list.
As long as the site has a way to allow me to still browse the site or even give me 15m more or something and then fade to black again I'd welcome this from many sites.
IOS, Android, and at least Macos have the ability to help users restrict the time they spend on an application, but doing so on the web is not as simple. In chrome I'm using "Intention" which is a nice extension that does something similar but for only the sites I've added to a list.
As long as the site has a way to allow me to still browse the site or even give me 15m more or something and then fade to black again I'd welcome this from many sites.
And I'd equally welcome the browser extension that bypasses this sort of thing. :)
It's good in theory, but thankfully lacks the contextual information it would need to be appropriately enabled for a given user's sleep schedule.
It's good in theory, but thankfully lacks the contextual information it would need to be appropriately enabled for a given user's sleep schedule.
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I really, really dislike the 'for your own good' impetus that seems to be a common current design trend.
We're already dealing with information-density loss and the Fisher-Pricification of the GUI, and maybe this is the next step in overwrought 'we know what you want to do better than you'.
I have no ire for the creator of this. But respect boundaries, people. You are not your user's parents.
We're already dealing with information-density loss and the Fisher-Pricification of the GUI, and maybe this is the next step in overwrought 'we know what you want to do better than you'.
I have no ire for the creator of this. But respect boundaries, people. You are not your user's parents.
Honestly, I’ll take designers thinking about the well-being of their users, even if it comes across as condescending. The common alternative is to wring as much attention out of the user as possible, pushing their buttons so they keep using the app until every last drop of dopamine has been exploited.
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It’s early…
Nothing we can offer you is more important than your health.
Eat well, run some laps, and we will catch you in the afternoon.
This site will be usable after 100 push ups.
> This site will be usable after 100 push ups.
Only if you have some advanced accessibility features that lets me use the site without my arms, which are now completely limp.
Only if you have some advanced accessibility features that lets me use the site without my arms, which are now completely limp.
Exactly.
This page which uses device time doesn't work well for me because I use UTC as my device time regardless of where I am in the world.
IP geolocation isn't a good idea either because I often access pages through a VPN in another timezone.
In short, nice thought but no thanks.
Also, great way to get your page downranked if a search engine comes prowling around your website at night.
This page which uses device time doesn't work well for me because I use UTC as my device time regardless of where I am in the world.
IP geolocation isn't a good idea either because I often access pages through a VPN in another timezone.
In short, nice thought but no thanks.
Also, great way to get your page downranked if a search engine comes prowling around your website at night.
What is the value of always setting it to UTC ?
You’re probably one of about 100 people in the world who set their device time to UTC. I don’t think it’s reasonable for any designer to cater for this use case.
Every time I set up a server I set it to UTC, since who knows where I’m accessing it from anyhow. Maybe OP thinks similarly of their PC?
Part of it is for log file continuity, but the bigger reason is that I actually manage my entire life in UTC. All the clocks, watches, phones, and even rice cooker in my home read UTC.
I tried timezones and DST for a while and hated it, and decided to do away with it.
I tried timezones and DST for a while and hated it, and decided to do away with it.
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They don't need to cater to me, but they don't need to deliberately go out of their way to impede my access to information.
At the same time, if you gear your website's performance towards engagement (e.g. I'd like people to read a bunch of stuff, stay for a while), you may feel an obligation to limit the effect your website has on someone's normal functions.
Take Hacker News, for example. This is not a site that maliciously steals attention for the gain of the owners. It still has the capacity to be a solid time sink. If the admins felt so inclined (and I'm very much not insisting they should), they could say "this could cause harm. Maybe we mitigate that harm by putting an extra barrier?"
And they actually do! Check out "noprocrast". Admittedly this is opt-in instead of opt-out, but websites (and even businesses in general) can sometimes take into account the wellbeing of customers over what measure of "efficiency" they may have.
Take Hacker News, for example. This is not a site that maliciously steals attention for the gain of the owners. It still has the capacity to be a solid time sink. If the admins felt so inclined (and I'm very much not insisting they should), they could say "this could cause harm. Maybe we mitigate that harm by putting an extra barrier?"
And they actually do! Check out "noprocrast". Admittedly this is opt-in instead of opt-out, but websites (and even businesses in general) can sometimes take into account the wellbeing of customers over what measure of "efficiency" they may have.
A really interesting hack I do, personally, is to stop reading Reddit when it’s time to go to sleep—-or even just be productive while awake!
It’s not quite the same as when Mommy tucks me into bed and turns the lights off, but I still find it helpful.
It’s not quite the same as when Mommy tucks me into bed and turns the lights off, but I still find it helpful.
They're not your parents, but it is their site.
Trying to define or prescribe a standard sleep schedule for everyone is pointless. There are people sleeping 9pm-5am and others 2am-10am, sometimes in the same household. Some people sleep fewer hours at night and take naps during the day. No single habit is "correct".
Semi-related – I have had so many frustrating experiences with government websites which only operate during business hours.
Semi-related – I have had so many frustrating experiences with government websites which only operate during business hours.
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No. Just no.
Don't make assumptions about your users. Maybe it's important to them. Maybe they have insomnia. Maybe they are staying up late. Maybe they work early/late in concert with someone elsewhere in the world. Maybe they're sleep schedule is different from yours
Or maybe they just work the night shift.
Don't make assumptions about your users. Maybe it's important to them. Maybe they have insomnia. Maybe they are staying up late. Maybe they work early/late in concert with someone elsewhere in the world. Maybe they're sleep schedule is different from yours
Or maybe they just work the night shift.
There is a "I’ll sleep later, I really need to use this site right now →" button, by the way.
I'll give you an advice I wish I learnt earlier in my life.
Don't think how something does not work, how it will be broken from the get go. Don't come up with negative use cases - its easy.
Do the opposite, its much. much harder. But as the result you can arrive at new ideas (be it business or art). After and only then you can work on workaround for the negatives.
Don't think how something does not work, how it will be broken from the get go. Don't come up with negative use cases - its easy.
Do the opposite, its much. much harder. But as the result you can arrive at new ideas (be it business or art). After and only then you can work on workaround for the negatives.
Compare to HN's sentiment the last time this was posted!
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11777562
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11777562
Those comments don't look organic to me, and the vote data seems to confirm that. So while it was someone's sentiment, I doubt it was HN's.
Bedtime? Where in the world is it bedtime at this moment?
This policy is only workable if your country uses a little-used language and takes up only a single timezone.
Dumb idea. Unnecessary complexity in a website.
This policy is only workable if your country uses a little-used language and takes up only a single timezone.
Dumb idea. Unnecessary complexity in a website.
The script uses the device time.
That doesn't work well for me because I use UTC as my device time regardless of where I am in the world.
IP geolocation isn't a good idea either because I often access pages through a VPN in another timezone.
In short, nice thought but no thanks.
IP geolocation isn't a good idea either because I often access pages through a VPN in another timezone.
In short, nice thought but no thanks.
asadlionpk(1)
The page mentions it uses the local clock/time zone in the browser viewing the page.
Why would you go to the bother of producing a website and then shut other people out of it just because you're asleep. Even worse is assuming that because it's their bedtime, they have no right to think they can use the website.
So many assumptions. It reminds me of my ethnic mother's command, "I'm cold. Go and put a jumper on."
So many assumptions. It reminds me of my ethnic mother's command, "I'm cold. Go and put a jumper on."
Some people work the night shift and sleep during the day. Others have odd schedules. Just don't do this. It's paternalistic, ill-advised, and not helpful.
This kind of reminds me of the Wojciech Cejrowski's (Polish TV and YT personality who gradually turned far-right) online shop that is closed on Sunday due to religious reasons [1][2]
[1] https://www.wykop.pl/wpis/34034367/wchodze-na-strone-cejrows...
[2] https://buzz.gazeta.pl/buzz/7,156947,11419434,zakupy-w-niedz...
[1] https://www.wykop.pl/wpis/34034367/wchodze-na-strone-cejrows...
[2] https://buzz.gazeta.pl/buzz/7,156947,11419434,zakupy-w-niedz...
This isn't a new trick. Some US Gov sites have hours of operation. From memory the IRS has one, and recently I noticed one of the gov sites for LA had "hours" for some parts, so I could only do forms when they were open.
Apparently the DVLA got this memo. They've disabled all their web forms outside of working hours.
Websites can be accessed from anywhere in the world. You don't know that it's nighttime where your users are. I guess you could use geolocation and figure it out, but that is an awful lot of trouble to go to just annoy your users.
Jennifer Garner reading Go the F*k to Sleep was the suggested promotional video for this on PH back in 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U08XWOx3XYM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U08XWOx3XYM
Saw someone propose recently shutting off twitter_com for a bunch of days, or a few weeks, to give the entire globe a break. Now this from 2016 resurfaced. Maybe it has a better fit in today's world.
I’m a bit confused by the name, what’s the Japan connection?
The developer seems to be called Masamichi Souzou (正道想像) but doesn’t seem to have any connection to Japan? Is there something I’ve missed? Just seems odd to me.
The developer seems to be called Masamichi Souzou (正道想像) but doesn’t seem to have any connection to Japan? Is there something I’ve missed? Just seems odd to me.
Culture fetishization.
What's the difference between appreciating something and fetishizing it?
Appreciation: "This burrito is amazing"
Fetishization: "This burrito is so amazing I'm going to start using a Cholo accent, drive a low rider, do up my apartment like the inside of an Azteca, and rename my business to some obscure Spanish phrase"
Fetishization: "This burrito is so amazing I'm going to start using a Cholo accent, drive a low rider, do up my apartment like the inside of an Azteca, and rename my business to some obscure Spanish phrase"
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Interesting how a non-latin Top Level Domain renders in the address bar(.みんな) vs how the author writes it in the <script> tag in his article (.xn--q9jyb4c).
You can even have emojis in your domain using the same technique https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punycode
I was going to ask about that domain because when I looked into it ICANN doesn't allow unicode/emoji gTLDs? Which seems to discriminate against non latin languages?
http://domainincite.com/18035-why-you-cant-register-emojis-i...
http://domainincite.com/18035-why-you-cant-register-emojis-i...
ICANN does allow non-Latin TLDs. The very link under discussion in this comments section uses one.
Emojis are something else though.
Emojis are something else though.
Yeah that's punycode. The UTF8 version of it doesn't work in all contexts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punycode
this is common, just how the unicode vs text writing everywhere as a fallback since unicode not always available as much as it is now
If anyone is motivated to do this for some weird reason, please self-host the code instead of exposing your users to potential hacking.
Are they implying that みんな is pronounced similar to night night? I don't think it is... is it?!
I think it means "everyone". Read it as "night night, everyone"
some old discussion about this concept/site: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11794024
This would work much better as a configurable browser extension
Thanks for deciding what's good for me!
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This should be opt-in.
1984 part 1 chapter 3
(2016)
No!
This is dumb. If any site does this to me I'll immediately move to a competitor or just stop using it entirely.
I like the clean margins and typography there.