Starting the World's First V8 Powered Tesla [video](youtube.com)
youtube.com
Starting the World's First V8 Powered Tesla [video]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MOs4W-WYlM
44 comments
> With Tesla this car had supercharger access turned off and he could not get replacement parts to fix the car.
This is a little disingenuous. It was a wreck, literally. It was a flooded car that the insurance had written off and sold as scrap. You'd never get manufacturer support for a BMW in the same circumstance either. Scrap is scrap.
That you can buy a car body and do a cool hack isn't a moral lesson about the business model attached to the car the part was taken from.
This is a little disingenuous. It was a wreck, literally. It was a flooded car that the insurance had written off and sold as scrap. You'd never get manufacturer support for a BMW in the same circumstance either. Scrap is scrap.
That you can buy a car body and do a cool hack isn't a moral lesson about the business model attached to the car the part was taken from.
> You'd never get manufacturer support for a BMW in the same circumstance either.
You don't need manufacturer support to repair most cars. Several car makers have left the industry, and their cars are still drivable and repairable. You can generally buy and repair cars with flood or wrecked title and repair them if you've got the time and patience; manufacturers will probably think you're crazy, but you can get service parts.
You don't need manufacturer support to repair most cars. Several car makers have left the industry, and their cars are still drivable and repairable. You can generally buy and repair cars with flood or wrecked title and repair them if you've got the time and patience; manufacturers will probably think you're crazy, but you can get service parts.
That's just not true of modern vehicles and you know it. You can't get a dash display replacement for a 2021 Audi or whatever from anyone but Audi, etc... You can't get an engine control computer for your new Toyota from anyone but Toyota.
It's absolutely true that engine parts can be made in a machine shop by a suitably talented artisan, so there remains a third party parts market for those things where there isn't for e.g. 20nm digital logic fabrication, NMC battery cells, etc...
But that's because one of those things is century old technology and the other isn't. It's not a business model thing, at all.
It's absolutely true that engine parts can be made in a machine shop by a suitably talented artisan, so there remains a third party parts market for those things where there isn't for e.g. 20nm digital logic fabrication, NMC battery cells, etc...
But that's because one of those things is century old technology and the other isn't. It's not a business model thing, at all.
The point was being able to buy things without a warranty or even owning the appropriate car. Whether third parties sell them is less important.
Audi instrument clusters, for 2021 models [1] — Audi appear to be willing to sell these to me, even though I don't own a car.
[2] seems to be a third party retailer.
[1] https://parts.audiusa.com/productSearch.aspx?&ukey_make=5792...
[2] https://www.audionlineparts.com/
Audi instrument clusters, for 2021 models [1] — Audi appear to be willing to sell these to me, even though I don't own a car.
[2] seems to be a third party retailer.
[1] https://parts.audiusa.com/productSearch.aspx?&ukey_make=5792...
[2] https://www.audionlineparts.com/
> Audi instrument clusters, for 2021 models [1] — Audi appear to be willing to sell these to me, even though I don't own a car.
GP didn’t say that Audi doesn’t sell it, but that you can’t “second source” it:
> You can't get a dash display replacement for a 2021 Audi or whatever from anyone but Audi, etc...
GP didn’t say that Audi doesn’t sell it, but that you can’t “second source” it:
> You can't get a dash display replacement for a 2021 Audi or whatever from anyone but Audi, etc...
While their is a limited time period where a new car only has Dealer parts before the aftermarket and refurbished market kicks in. largely this is because there is not really a market for parts while the manufacturer warranty is in effect so more parts manufacturers do not bother.
The difference here is the dealer will sell you the parts most of the time no questions asked, no proof of ownership needed, no need to have the dealer install the part, etc etc. My understanding is that not even Tesla will sell you the parts, you have to bring the car in, they have the look it over, tell you what parts you need, and then you pay them to install it.
this is VERY VERY different than your Audi example
The difference here is the dealer will sell you the parts most of the time no questions asked, no proof of ownership needed, no need to have the dealer install the part, etc etc. My understanding is that not even Tesla will sell you the parts, you have to bring the car in, they have the look it over, tell you what parts you need, and then you pay them to install it.
this is VERY VERY different than your Audi example
But Audi will sell you the parts in your example.
The display went out in my wife's 2018 Toyota, I went online and bought the part through a dealer and installed it myself.
That's not very possible to do with Tesla, and I think that's the point here.
The display went out in my wife's 2018 Toyota, I went online and bought the part through a dealer and installed it myself.
That's not very possible to do with Tesla, and I think that's the point here.
https://epc.tesla.com/en/catalogs/2/categories/37/subcategor...
The Tesla screen is available from Tesla's parts departments. You don't even need to own a car to buy it.
The Tesla screen is available from Tesla's parts departments. You don't even need to own a car to buy it.
Salvage yards will have 2021 parts in a couple years or so.
People by scrapped ICE cars all the time. It may not be one of the mainstream options but it's not rare. It's common. It's possible to fix it up to get a rebuilt title after it had a salvage title from being an insurance write-off.
The fact that filling up a car at a charging/fueling station requires manufacturer support highlights how coupled everything is together.
The fact that filling up a car at a charging/fueling station requires manufacturer support highlights how coupled everything is together.
I am sure, it is possible to charge the salvaged Tesla at most power outlets. Just not high-power chargers, which makes a lot of sense.
A BMW dealer built a 1970s R90S motorcycle from parts they ordered from the BMW catalog in 2013. I personally rebuilt a wrecked 1989 Honda motorcycle with all factory parts in 2010. Traditional automakers provide excellent support for any years even for niche vehicles that hardly anyone bought.
And you genuinely think you could do the same with a 2022 BMW i4 or Honda Clarity?
More to the point: could you have build those same projects in the 70's/90's when those were new vehicles? I rather doubt it, too. Parts markets are real, but they take time to mature.
I mean... where do you think the parts would even come from? Tesla's factories are at capacity building new vehicles (in the case of the model S and X, they're actually almost a year behind orders!). Who's going to make the stuff you'd expect to buy anyway?
More to the point: could you have build those same projects in the 70's/90's when those were new vehicles? I rather doubt it, too. Parts markets are real, but they take time to mature.
I mean... where do you think the parts would even come from? Tesla's factories are at capacity building new vehicles (in the case of the model S and X, they're actually almost a year behind orders!). Who's going to make the stuff you'd expect to buy anyway?
nd you genuinely think you could do the same with a 2022 BMW i4
I do not expect to be able to buy replacement parts for a car that isn't yet on sale...
I do expect that I will be able to buy replacement parts for it once the car is on sale, as is the case with all of BMW's other vehicles.
I do not expect to be able to buy replacement parts for a car that isn't yet on sale...
I do expect that I will be able to buy replacement parts for it once the car is on sale, as is the case with all of BMW's other vehicles.
[deleted]
Yes? I just punched up the front steering assembly for a 2020 Honda Clarity PHEV. All I need to do is click this button to have it shipped to me. Reasonable automakers make more parts than they need and ship them to warehouses worldwide to support their customer fleets.
Here’s the whole battery pack assembly for my Honda. https://www.hondapartsonline.net/oem-parts/honda-pack-assemb...
Here’s the whole battery pack assembly for my Honda. https://www.hondapartsonline.net/oem-parts/honda-pack-assemb...
> You'd never get manufacturer support for a BMW in the same circumstance either.
There's no network of BMW gas stations that you need to pay a license fee to use, though. Otherwise I generally agree.
There's no network of BMW gas stations that you need to pay a license fee to use, though. Otherwise I generally agree.
You don't need to charge at superchargers. Any other charger would do. But considering the voltage and currents at the superchargers, I can only support to limit the usage to undamaged vehicles.
Pretty Sure BMW will sell you the parts, any parts, if you have the $$$, they will not even ask you the VIN Number, go down to the local deal, tell them you need X parts, and have Y Cash in hand they say "here you go"
Tesla attempting to turn cars in iPhone Walled Garden where you need approval to fix them and only allow to use Manufacture Approved Repair Centers likely will be the down fall of this, as people will not stand for this long term like they have with Cell phones, ironically this type of Automotive lock down (which Tesla is far from the only offender) will likely be the cause of Right to Repair laws being passed in most states very soon that will extend to all manner of electronics including Cell Phones
Tesla attempting to turn cars in iPhone Walled Garden where you need approval to fix them and only allow to use Manufacture Approved Repair Centers likely will be the down fall of this, as people will not stand for this long term like they have with Cell phones, ironically this type of Automotive lock down (which Tesla is far from the only offender) will likely be the cause of Right to Repair laws being passed in most states very soon that will extend to all manner of electronics including Cell Phones
My plan with the mode y my wife just bought herself is to sell in 3-4 years. My 1T diesel pickup won’t be retired like this.
I don’t like this approach, but it is what it is.
I don’t like this approach, but it is what it is.
You can’t generalise Tesla as representing all EVs. They’re the only ones who have this remote control of your car and restricted availability of parts. No other manufacturer does this.
I agree it’s not a healthy model long-term, just hoping it stays niche with Tesla rather than other manufacturers joining in.
I agree it’s not a healthy model long-term, just hoping it stays niche with Tesla rather than other manufacturers joining in.
Uh... literally every manufacturer does restricted availability of parts.
Huh? The only parts restriction I've ever come across is VIN-locked special edition parts, to keep dealers from trying to build a side-business building their own special editions. Usually these are cosmetic (Land Cruiser wheels are a good example) and rather silly anyway. And, the restriction isn't "you can't get these parts," it's "you can only get these parts with a matching VIN."
In contrast, Tesla regulate all structural and HV parts. Whether this is a bad idea or not I'm not quite sure (I think the argument that HV repair is more dangerous than gasoline vehicle repair absolutely has merit), but it's a key difference.
Furthermore, while all manufacturers these days do lock down software to some degree, none do to the extent of Tesla. For example, on VW you need GeKo access for Component Protection removal, but it's $999/year and just requires a business entity. And, a few features are behind SWaP codes, but you can buy those SWaP features too, even as an independent shop. And of course, if you like you can RE the software or buy a reversed software tool suite like Abrites which will let you bypass these mechanisms without your car being remotely banned from certain functionalities.
In contrast, Tesla regulate all structural and HV parts. Whether this is a bad idea or not I'm not quite sure (I think the argument that HV repair is more dangerous than gasoline vehicle repair absolutely has merit), but it's a key difference.
Furthermore, while all manufacturers these days do lock down software to some degree, none do to the extent of Tesla. For example, on VW you need GeKo access for Component Protection removal, but it's $999/year and just requires a business entity. And, a few features are behind SWaP codes, but you can buy those SWaP features too, even as an independent shop. And of course, if you like you can RE the software or buy a reversed software tool suite like Abrites which will let you bypass these mechanisms without your car being remotely banned from certain functionalities.
Uh... literally every manufacturer does restricted availability of parts.
No, they literally do not. Automakers will generally sell replacement parts for any vehicles they currently sell to anyone willing to pay for them.
In fact, they usually have dedicated sites just for buying replacement parts. https://www.toyota.com/owners/parts-service/parts https://parts.ford.com/en.html https://estore.honda.com/
In cases where the automaker won't sell replacement parts, that is because they don't make the part, but third parties do, and the part can be acquired from one or more third parties. (Note: in the case of GM and BMW, the below are third party retailers, but they also sell OEM parts, which GM and BMW do not appear to sell direct online.)
https://www.gmpartsdirect.com/ https://www.getbmwparts.com/bmw-replacement-parts
No, they literally do not. Automakers will generally sell replacement parts for any vehicles they currently sell to anyone willing to pay for them.
In fact, they usually have dedicated sites just for buying replacement parts. https://www.toyota.com/owners/parts-service/parts https://parts.ford.com/en.html https://estore.honda.com/
In cases where the automaker won't sell replacement parts, that is because they don't make the part, but third parties do, and the part can be acquired from one or more third parties. (Note: in the case of GM and BMW, the below are third party retailers, but they also sell OEM parts, which GM and BMW do not appear to sell direct online.)
https://www.gmpartsdirect.com/ https://www.getbmwparts.com/bmw-replacement-parts
>>just hoping it stays niche with Tesla rather than other manufacturers joining in.
No chance of that, while most of the others have not gone full Apple in their control like Tesla has
Most of them (Gm, Ford, VW, etc ) have all signaled their desire to start down this path and many of them have removed anything not legally required to be in the ODBII spec into proprietary controls that require manufacturer authorization
No chance of that, while most of the others have not gone full Apple in their control like Tesla has
Most of them (Gm, Ford, VW, etc ) have all signaled their desire to start down this path and many of them have removed anything not legally required to be in the ODBII spec into proprietary controls that require manufacturer authorization
Reduced opportunity for third parties to work on electric vehicles, especially Teslas, is a significant problem that needs to be addressed. It's an aspect of right to repair laws. There are some states that have laws that have basically forced some EV companies to release manuals. But lack of availability of parts also blocks third parties.
If you think of superchargers as an almost proprietary service that is almost required for use of the car, then blocking the use of them in damaged and repaired Teslas seems problematic. If you had a "totaled" gm bolt, after it was repaired you could use third-party charging services.
If you think of superchargers as an almost proprietary service that is almost required for use of the car, then blocking the use of them in damaged and repaired Teslas seems problematic. If you had a "totaled" gm bolt, after it was repaired you could use third-party charging services.
There is no standard for super chargers. That means different companies can have different connections. If people want EVs to succeed they should push for interoperability across brands. So that it's as easy to charge you car as it is to fill up on gas, today.
I don't know about the US but in Europe, charging is well specified. The typical standards are Type 2 for AC charging and CCS for DC charging and the European Teslas implement those. The Superchargers are fully CCS-compatible. This was demonstrated recently, when the authentication system on one Supercharger site failed and the Superchargers would happily charge cars of any brand at no cost. The news quickly spread and there were videos of a wide variety of cars charging at the Superchargers. Actually, they seemed to be more stable than some third party charging stations. Tesla did however fix that problem on the next day :p.
The SAE J1772 standard is good for 400kw, no?
I'm sorry I wasn't clear. There isn't a standard followed by everyone. I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I'm saying it's not being commonly followed everywhere.
ICE vehicles can run on diesel, compressed natural gas (CNG), liquified natural gas (LNG), liquified petroleum gas (LPG), and several grades of gasoline. A standard needn't be used by 100% of vehicles to be useful.
Also, in Europe Tesla uses standard connectors on their superchargers — other vehicles can be plugged in, but they won't charge.
Also, in Europe Tesla uses standard connectors on their superchargers — other vehicles can be plugged in, but they won't charge.
+1, I actually think the push for "standardization" is premature. The most expensive parts are the transformers for meeting the cars voltage and amperage specs.
Having multiple cables is far from impossible and not a major cost difference. Most already do it with CCS and CHAdeMO, and its easy to foresee them slowly replacing CHAdeMO plugs with something newer and better() at some point.
() Yes, CCS is newer and better... but these stations already have those. They can't use two simultaneously, so having two CCS Cables with the same connector is usually (but not always) silly.
Having multiple cables is far from impossible and not a major cost difference. Most already do it with CCS and CHAdeMO, and its easy to foresee them slowly replacing CHAdeMO plugs with something newer and better() at some point.
() Yes, CCS is newer and better... but these stations already have those. They can't use two simultaneously, so having two CCS Cables with the same connector is usually (but not always) silly.
I cant resist....
https://xkcd.com/927/
https://xkcd.com/927/
[deleted]
This is true right now. Probably true for all the EV makers. Give the EV market 10/20 years to mature, and all this will be sorted out.
One thing to note is that Rich is trolling Tesla because they failed to grant him a number of Tesla referral credits that he earned from his channel and have been unsupportive if not hostile to his efforts to repair and augment his rightfully owned Tesla hardware.
Whether this is a good idea or not is irrelevant - it's a bit of a cheeky finger to Musk more than anything.
Whether this is a good idea or not is irrelevant - it's a bit of a cheeky finger to Musk more than anything.
The worst thing is that Tesla also restricts access to superchargers for salvage or rebuilt vehicles.
I think some of the other charge networks would like to do the same, but do not have a path to enforcement of rules like that.
I think some of the other charge networks would like to do the same, but do not have a path to enforcement of rules like that.
I am not sure that I consider it a bad thing if access for vehicles in a damaged state to chargers with 400V and up to 500A is prohibited.
Fair, but there is no certification process either and this is making these machines into paperweights far before their time.
Worse, nothing stops them from using an adapter for other charge networks creating the same safety concern.
Worse, nothing stops them from using an adapter for other charge networks creating the same safety concern.
What's cooler than cars that run on electricity? Cars that run on JavaScript.
this video showcase the poor build quality of Tesla cars
With Tesla this car had supercharger access turned off and he could not get replacement parts to fix the car.
By going ICE powered he can get the parts and is able to easily refuel it.
I'm not saying ICE is better than electric. I'm trying to highlight availability, enablement, and control.