NYC Mesh Community Internet(nytimes.com)
nytimes.com
NYC Mesh Community Internet
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/16/nyregion/nyc-mesh-community-internet.html
82 comments
We need to work on changing the laws so that “they couldn’t care less” is no longer relevant. Internet access is a human right. Housing without internet access should be viewed similarly to housing without electricity or indoor plumbing.
I'm not familiar enough with the technology to understand the privacy implications--are operators able to identify/snoop on specific users? I'm wondering how easily a building owner or landlord could collect and leverage their residents' data for any number of nefarious reasons.
It's just like any other connection. You can think of the wifi links just replacing a cable. If NYC Mesh are linking through fibre installed at various buildings around town then yes, anyone with access to that router could snoop. In Germany, the Freifunk mesh project solved this problem by routing through VPN tunnels: https://pinneberg.freifunk.net/en/faq
> I live in a large apartment building and would need permission from the building owner to install anything.
Kinda strange for me. Do you need a permission for router install too?
Kinda strange for me. Do you need a permission for router install too?
I should clarify, I need permission to install anything on the roof, which is how Mesh connections are almost always made.
You don’t have to share your mesh connection with all 30 units and the equipment you install wouldn’t be able to support 30 units. Mesh also isn’t really available for Mega ultra fast connection speeds but more of a secondary connection.
Having said that, the fun of mesh is having those conversations and getting others to also purchase equipment and install. Also as your neighbors and surrounding buildings add their own installs, the boxes will also wirelessly mesh together which will increase bandwidth and possibly speed.
So maybe you could ask 2 of your neighbors to pitch in, which would get you the connection but also influence others to join in on your neighborhood network.
Right now I bought a Ubiquiti Edge router and balance my connection so that NYC Mesh is a failover. Initially was receiving 40Mpbs download but checked again recently and now am sometimes seeing speeds of 100Mbps because the nodes in my neighborhood grew.
Having said that, the fun of mesh is having those conversations and getting others to also purchase equipment and install. Also as your neighbors and surrounding buildings add their own installs, the boxes will also wirelessly mesh together which will increase bandwidth and possibly speed.
So maybe you could ask 2 of your neighbors to pitch in, which would get you the connection but also influence others to join in on your neighborhood network.
Right now I bought a Ubiquiti Edge router and balance my connection so that NYC Mesh is a failover. Initially was receiving 40Mpbs download but checked again recently and now am sometimes seeing speeds of 100Mbps because the nodes in my neighborhood grew.
> You don’t have to share your mesh connection with all 30 units and the equipment you install wouldn’t be able to support 30 units.
Right, and that’s the key problem with building management approval. They’re already disinterested and they’re even less interested in installing something that only benefits one apartment or maybe a couple. There’s already a specific exclusion against the likes of DirectTV satellites that only serve one apartment on the roof.
So the best chance of getting approved is to go down the fiber route, but that’s a so much larger and complex solution that there’s less chance it’ll ever happen. Feels a little catch 22-ish: the small solution is too small to get approved, the large solution is too large to get approved. None of this is Mesh’s fault, it’s just that plodding real estate interests in the city always default to doing nothing if they can.
(worth noting though that a number of folks in NYC live in co-op buildings where the apartment owners are the building management, I imagine the fiber option could make inroads there much more easily)
Right, and that’s the key problem with building management approval. They’re already disinterested and they’re even less interested in installing something that only benefits one apartment or maybe a couple. There’s already a specific exclusion against the likes of DirectTV satellites that only serve one apartment on the roof.
So the best chance of getting approved is to go down the fiber route, but that’s a so much larger and complex solution that there’s less chance it’ll ever happen. Feels a little catch 22-ish: the small solution is too small to get approved, the large solution is too large to get approved. None of this is Mesh’s fault, it’s just that plodding real estate interests in the city always default to doing nothing if they can.
(worth noting though that a number of folks in NYC live in co-op buildings where the apartment owners are the building management, I imagine the fiber option could make inroads there much more easily)
There’s also the problem of landlords / apartment managers signing exclusivity deals with Comcast https://www.theregister.com/2017/08/23/big_cable_apartment_e...
Yeah these are landlords who fought cable installation in the 80s, still fight fiber Verizon installation today and have zero reason to let a tenant install something on the roof so I gave up on mesh in NYC.
I don’t think the small solution is too small to get approved. You just need to make the right arguments. “Hey let’s install this so every apartment has free/low cost internet connection.” Isn’t the right argument. “Let’s install this so we can be apart of a growing network, then if other residents are interested they can join with their own time investment. This way people have options and a working relationship with management. If this ends up as too much work then the equipment is easily removed.”
Make the argument to opt out and I think you will find that once it’s in place no one will want to put in the time to opt out because the opt-in is all benefit.
I understand what you’re saying and the fiber option could be a later enhancement. I know NYC building management is sometimes difficult but my installs were fun and painless that I’m hard pressed to believe it wasn’t worth it.
Make the argument to opt out and I think you will find that once it’s in place no one will want to put in the time to opt out because the opt-in is all benefit.
I understand what you’re saying and the fiber option could be a later enhancement. I know NYC building management is sometimes difficult but my installs were fun and painless that I’m hard pressed to believe it wasn’t worth it.
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My small upstate NY city has a mesh internet provider https://www.massivemesh.net/ but frankly its one of the worst in town. They don't even list bandwidth speeds on their packages because they are so poor. They might be a better option than DSL, but not cable-based internet. I have team members who live in buildings that contract with this mesh company and they are constantly dropping out of zoom calls for unstable connections. The poorest parts of the city are out of range for their mesh network, but luckily people in these areas can qualify for low-income internet pricing from the cable company.
A proprietary, centrally ran ISP with little community input is a false equivalent of NYC Mesh.
The friends of mine that use NYC Mesh often experience speeds faster than what can be reasonably purchased from other ISPs available in the same building. It's a great way to eliminate your internet bill and gain much faster upload speeds.
The friends of mine that use NYC Mesh often experience speeds faster than what can be reasonably purchased from other ISPs available in the same building. It's a great way to eliminate your internet bill and gain much faster upload speeds.
One of the things I've wondered is why people don't create small-mesh networks off their cable internet? For example, if I'm living in a relatively small apartment with nearby neighbors, why not get one of those WiFi mesh router systems and hook up 2-4 apartments to a single internet connection?
This project is really interesting, but it requires a certain amount of organization and technical expertise. Installing directional antennas, running wires, etc. isn't incredibly hard, but it's a lot more work than setting up a router.
The new WiFi mesh routers are pretty great at covering a larger area and in my city the apartments are pretty close together. In a 3-unit building, it seems like you could just get one internet connection in the middle unit and a nice 3-unit WiFi mesh system and save on internet costs.
This project is really interesting, but it requires a certain amount of organization and technical expertise. Installing directional antennas, running wires, etc. isn't incredibly hard, but it's a lot more work than setting up a router.
The new WiFi mesh routers are pretty great at covering a larger area and in my city the apartments are pretty close together. In a 3-unit building, it seems like you could just get one internet connection in the middle unit and a nice 3-unit WiFi mesh system and save on internet costs.
ToS violation. You may not share Internet connections without explicit consent from the ISP.
You can order a connection which allows sharing, but it’ll cost you about a grand or so per month.
You can order a connection which allows sharing, but it’ll cost you about a grand or so per month.
One reason could be potential exposure to legal issues if someone does something illegal on the Internet connection registered in my name.
Now, if I lived in a halfway sane society, meaning one where the worst case scenario would be police knocking at my door and asking some questions or even serving a search warrant, that might be a risk I'd be willing to take.
Unfortunately I live in a completely deranged one, where the more likely scenario would be flashbangs through my windows, a battering ram through my front door, and full auto rifles in my face.
No, thank you.
Now, if I lived in a halfway sane society, meaning one where the worst case scenario would be police knocking at my door and asking some questions or even serving a search warrant, that might be a risk I'd be willing to take.
Unfortunately I live in a completely deranged one, where the more likely scenario would be flashbangs through my windows, a battering ram through my front door, and full auto rifles in my face.
No, thank you.
> the Internet connection registered in my name.
Well, that’s the problem right there.
If you are running an ISP business you should not have your backhaul connection registered in your name, but in the name of your business.
Well, that’s the problem right there.
If you are running an ISP business you should not have your backhaul connection registered in your name, but in the name of your business.
OK, but the physical address would still be my home, where I don't want the swat team.
Sure, but your business address should not be your home.
Thus swat would have to contact your business first before they can get a physical address.
Thus swat would have to contact your business first before they can get a physical address.
I don’t want to get raided by the DEA cause my neighbor and network sharer likes to buy LSD online.
That’s not the reason why you don’t share your Internet connection, that’s the reason why you keep logs.
See my comment above. Keeping logs isn't going to help if the cops shoot me dead before I have a chance to even offer the logs.
Out of interest, why would the cops come to your house?
It’s not like you can deliver LSD digitally, so there would have to be a shipping address.
If you neighbor is shipping you LSD then you have a different problem: free LSD and/or a neighbor issue.
As to a proper solution, please refer to my above comment about registering a business and keeping the Internet connection in the name of the business.
It’s not like you can deliver LSD digitally, so there would have to be a shipping address.
If you neighbor is shipping you LSD then you have a different problem: free LSD and/or a neighbor issue.
As to a proper solution, please refer to my above comment about registering a business and keeping the Internet connection in the name of the business.
The GP's example may be bad, but there are plenty of other computer crimes. Hacking, violent threats, child porn, selling LSD...
Yes, and that’s why you keep home and business addresses separate.
There are established procedures for law enforcement to contact ISPs to get the required information and that’s when you present your logs.
There are established procedures for law enforcement to contact ISPs to get the required information and that’s when you present your logs.
... we're talking about community mesh networks in NYC, right? That doesn't seem like it could work if every participant needs to rent commercial space to the tune of five figures per month just to place an antenna there?
1/ You do not need to rent commercial space to get a business address, a P.O. Box or similar will suffice.
2/ The ISP only needs a single business address, not multiple registered addresses for all their sites.
3/ This thread isn’t specific to NYC Mesh, but the same principles apply
2/ The ISP only needs a single business address, not multiple registered addresses for all their sites.
3/ This thread isn’t specific to NYC Mesh, but the same principles apply
OK, you go keep logs and have them there so when what the cops want to find doesn't turn up, it falls on you by default.
What?
You tell the cops to go to this address and see this person as that’s the customer with the requested IP address.
For any further questions you refer them to your company lawyer.
You tell the cops to go to this address and see this person as that’s the customer with the requested IP address.
For any further questions you refer them to your company lawyer.
I use Mesh at home as my sole internet provider and I've had a great experience so far. I typically get 80mbps download, and the service has been overall very reliable (although there is an occasional brief outage or slowdown when it's raining hard). The only other option in my building is Optimum, which has its own reliability issues and is much more expensive (~$100/month for 200mbps).
This is great but I want to see a community mesh network which competes with the internet rather than delivering it. Best of it was based on existing wifi overlaps. Distributed, decentralized.
People want to access to the Internet, not your LAN.
While interesting from an intellectual point of view, how is the link relevant to the topic being discussed?
Amsterdam had such a project in ~2002, called Wireless East. It was subsidized. Not sure if still exists. I been to Serbia in 2008 and they were also rolling such out. Back then mobile traffic costs were insane.
a coalition of groups in New York City is also pushing for a municipal broadband option: https://internetforall.nyc/
Dunno if this is allowed or not, but paywall free version is here: https://archive.is/Z6GXD
I would really love to do something like this in my neighborhood. Seems like an interesting project and a fun hobby but sadly I think I would have a hard time with hardware and finding willing people to help out.
I would really love to do something like this in my neighborhood. Seems like an interesting project and a fun hobby but sadly I think I would have a hard time with hardware and finding willing people to help out.
Pittsburgh, Chicago and Toronto are a couple other cities with community-driven network initiatives that I've researched. Also, the recent #yosoysnet movement and the Cuban state-run telecoms company (ETECSA) trying to cut off its citizens from the internet is another really relevant and interesting topic. Basically Cubans have built a full fledged branch of thousands of (illegal) nodes which is tangentially connected to the global internet. There were a few articles that Vice did about El Paquete, the daily couple terabytes of new "internet" (movies, music, news) that was shared over the SNET and by flashdrive.
If you're interested, I've written a few articles on why I think community mesh nets could provide a solution to social media echo chambers and reduce the proliferation of conspiracy theories by providing a route for local-first news:
https://l-o-o-s-e-d.net/public-internet
The hardware is readily available, you can also just use yagi or directional normal wifi, but the real difficulty is getting buy in and people to want to connect.
Is it the sole internet or backup is an important question to answer.
Find a local ham group, they may already be doing something similar and might be interested in other projects.
Is it the sole internet or backup is an important question to answer.
Find a local ham group, they may already be doing something similar and might be interested in other projects.
Oh yeah, hardware access is no problem. Its just cost, for me atleast. Finding people to connect would also be difficult.
Funny you mention hammers. I checked and my local ham group is run by a bunch of right-wing nut jobs, so I don't think they would be interested in a meshnet.
Funny you mention hammers. I checked and my local ham group is run by a bunch of right-wing nut jobs, so I don't think they would be interested in a meshnet.
To echo this:
When I was in college at NJIT I had access to a building, with roof access, 10G networking, head of networking was a friend, battery backup, and staff members on site at all times [0] and attempted to figure out what we'd need to connect to NYC Mesh or if they'd be interested in starting a sister mesh. We're in NJ so connecting to the NYC Mesh might have been difficult but we likely had line-of-sight to some parts of Manhattan.
tl;dr: No one was able to help at the time and we'd have to foot the bill for the equipment which was not possible at the time. This is obviously completely reasonable but hopefully as they grow they can do more outreach.
A Mesh alternative to standard ISPs is critical in my opinion. It could even be used for emergency communications in the next Sandy-like scenario.
[0] - https://www.k2mff.club/ & https://web.njit.edu/~k2mff/ourwork.html
> and we'd have to foot the bill for the equipment which was not possible at the time. This is obviously completely reasonable but hopefully as they grow they can do more
When I was in college at NJIT I had access to a building, with roof access, 10G networking, head of networking was a friend, battery backup, and staff members on site at all times [0] and attempted to figure out what we'd need to connect to NYC Mesh or if they'd be interested in starting a sister mesh. We're in NJ so connecting to the NYC Mesh might have been difficult but we likely had line-of-sight to some parts of Manhattan.
tl;dr: No one was able to help at the time and we'd have to foot the bill for the equipment which was not possible at the time. This is obviously completely reasonable but hopefully as they grow they can do more outreach.
A Mesh alternative to standard ISPs is critical in my opinion. It could even be used for emergency communications in the next Sandy-like scenario.
[0] - https://www.k2mff.club/ & https://web.njit.edu/~k2mff/ourwork.html
> and we'd have to foot the bill for the equipment which was not possible at the time. This is obviously completely reasonable but hopefully as they grow they can do more
same... would def be down for this and my place is on an elevated lot, I'd make a great place for a omni directional.
I thought about joining the network but it's a hard sell over Verizon Fios. 300/300 for $40 a month is hard to beat.
you get that price in NYC?
Yup. It's on their website.
wild how different the prices are, but I guess that's what happens when a lot of buildings only have one or two providers. No fios available for me, but I'm paying $70/month for optimum "up to 300 download, up to 35 upload". Usually on speedtests I'm usually getting 15%-20% lower than that.
edit for context: in brooklyn
edit for context: in brooklyn
Yeah makes sense. I never paid more than $35/40 but I always lived in the city with at least a few other options (FIOS and RCN) in addition to Time Warner. BTW was using RCN the last few years and they were very good.
Now we're moving to Long Island and the town has only two choices - optimum and FiOS. When I looked at the Optimum statement, there was a ton of "discounts" for being in a high-competition area which is how they got the price down to ~35 as well, from the base of about $70 as you said. Though we later changed our minds and went for Fios at about $39.
Now we're moving to Long Island and the town has only two choices - optimum and FiOS. When I looked at the Optimum statement, there was a ton of "discounts" for being in a high-competition area which is how they got the price down to ~35 as well, from the base of about $70 as you said. Though we later changed our minds and went for Fios at about $39.
"Mr. Hall secured funding from the Internet Society to set up NYC Mesh’s first “supernode” on top of the former Verizon building in downtown Manhattan"
Isn't that a "secret" government agency location now?
Isn't that a "secret" government agency location now?
You may be thinking of the AT&T “Long Lines Building” at 33 Thomas Street. (AKA “The Oldest House” from the game Control.)
NYC Mesh’s Supernode 1 is on top of a different building, at 375 Pearl Street.
NYC Mesh’s Supernode 1 is on top of a different building, at 375 Pearl Street.
The article mentions a problem is the mesh goes down and they rely on volunteers to fix it. Furthermore the “volunteer” who installed required a $50 tip to come out. I get why this is so much cheaper but without an organizational structure with people paid to come fix stuff you will always have situations where stuff is busted. Plus as more non-tech, non-ideological folk get connected they will abuse the volunteers when they come to help just as people do with any tech support, and volunteers are under no obligation to assist if they get annoyed. I think a formal non-profit structure with employees will be required to make this work. If the goal is an under-the-table donation at fixed prices then this can work as a tax dodge for informal employment (which is also interesting) but again, this isn’t a sustainable model.
Their model goes beyond creating a community based network. They also encourage a fair amount of self education. The non-technical market is not the market for nyc mesh and probably never will be. If you want an internet connection that is serviced you should pay a service provider.
The goal of nyc mesh is not capitalism or to become a standard ISP.
The goal of nyc mesh is not capitalism or to become a standard ISP.
I don’t see how anyone goes through the hassle of installing this for a, “eh, maybe it works sometimes” internet connection. This has nothing to do with capitalism other than the basic understanding that people won’t give their time away for nothing on a reliable, ongoing basis.
If you do not understand why you would install equipment and grow a network owned and operated by a community that gets better with each addition, then you are not part of the market for this.
No one said it only works sometimes or wasn’t reliable. You just won’t be using it to binge watch TV shows or competively gaming.
No one said it only works sometimes or wasn’t reliable. You just won’t be using it to binge watch TV shows or competively gaming.
NY Mesh now has an official contract with the city to wire up housing projects and low income housing, according to the article. This is not a hobbyist situation where all of the working class will learn how to be network engineers. I don’t think you understand what is going on.
Well as a member of the NYC Mesh network and someone who advocated for the city to contract NYC Mesh two years ago when De Blasio announced a city wide internet initiative, I’d like to think I have some idea. I guess time will tell, good luck fighting it.
Well if you speak for the NY Mesh project as you claim, and your stance is that taxpayer dollars should go to wire up residents with internet they can’t rely on, can’t get support on, and have to pay for help with a tip-based system or else learn to be a networking engineer, then I think anyone reading can understand our differences in opinion and how sustainable each of us thinks this is. I wish you luck your informal, no-employment, black-market-yet-taxpayer subsidized internet service that no one should expect to rely on in an emergency.
I didn’t claim to speak for NYC Mesh, I claimed to have advocating that De Blasio’s initiative utilize the NYC Mesh network.
This isn’t the first time the city has given an ISP to provide internet access for NYC and previous attempts by large ISPs were either a lie or unsuccessful. Yes I do think internet should be community operated and owned and if that means the city pays NYC Mesh some money to install and maintain it, then that’s good for the city. That’s tax money being invested into the quality of the neighborhoods. Where did you get this information that the contract excludes any sort of maintenance?
The current system for ANYONE who wants to be apart of the network but not install is tipped based. There is nothing that indicates the contract between the city and NYC Mesh would operate that way.
These networks are so easy to set up that almost little to no maintenance is required. And this is the first step to city wholly owned and maintained networks that is a good thing. That means the people in the city are better off and more self sufficient when it comes to internet access.
NYC Mesh has an excellent track record of providing and maintaining service (maybe at a cost or not). Large ISPs have continually failed in that regard. So yes this is a better and more visible use of money.
I invite you to get involved and be more than an arm chair critic.
This isn’t the first time the city has given an ISP to provide internet access for NYC and previous attempts by large ISPs were either a lie or unsuccessful. Yes I do think internet should be community operated and owned and if that means the city pays NYC Mesh some money to install and maintain it, then that’s good for the city. That’s tax money being invested into the quality of the neighborhoods. Where did you get this information that the contract excludes any sort of maintenance?
The current system for ANYONE who wants to be apart of the network but not install is tipped based. There is nothing that indicates the contract between the city and NYC Mesh would operate that way.
These networks are so easy to set up that almost little to no maintenance is required. And this is the first step to city wholly owned and maintained networks that is a good thing. That means the people in the city are better off and more self sufficient when it comes to internet access.
NYC Mesh has an excellent track record of providing and maintaining service (maybe at a cost or not). Large ISPs have continually failed in that regard. So yes this is a better and more visible use of money.
I invite you to get involved and be more than an arm chair critic.
I think it can work but I wish you and the NYT would acknowledge this for what it is - a government subsidized black-market internet business. I think it would easy to start many businesses by replacing “employees” with “volunteers” and “wages” with “tips” to avoid all of the record keeping, payroll taxes, legal liability, regulations, and all of the issues that make running a normal organization in a liberal city (or any city with the rule of law) difficult and expensive. Even easier when the tax payers gave me money to do so.
I’m all for this, but I hope you realize operating something like this at scale is only possible because you aren’t paying even a minimum wage and are avoiding all the hassles and rules that make doing this according to what society wants for all other non-profit and profit entities. This is gig-economy ISP which apparently is great here but the NYT and leftists hate for all other places.
I’m all for this, but I hope you realize operating something like this at scale is only possible because you aren’t paying even a minimum wage and are avoiding all the hassles and rules that make doing this according to what society wants for all other non-profit and profit entities. This is gig-economy ISP which apparently is great here but the NYT and leftists hate for all other places.
No I think it’s a great blueprint for other places, that’s one of the most exciting parts of it. Listen it might eventually evolve into a more standard operation but why does everything have to be profitable and have employees and be set up as a business? This is working until it doesn’t and their track record shows no sign of slowing. All the issues for this ISP still apply to other ISPs. This one just happened to grow out of the interests of the community.
> “NYT and leftists”
No reason to politicize this and pigeon hole advocates.
> “NYT and leftists”
No reason to politicize this and pigeon hole advocates.
My understanding from your original comment about “capitalism” was that there is a strong ideological bent to this which is why I mentioned that. We are in agreement on the actions and ends but probably disagree on the means, whereas I come from a strong capitalist bent. I wish we could apply the same no-entity, no regulation, no-taxes, no formal employment model to many other things including housing and education. But for this one thing it’s OK, but for others it’s not. I wish we could let lots of experiments exist free of the strangling governmental structures.
No ideological bent just being general. I can see how one could misconstrue that from what I wrote.
Uh, do you apply this argument to open source software as well? That open source libraries are a “black-market internet business”?
Honestly it’s wild to see this kind of logic of HN. Goes to show how much technology has become more about business culture than about the technology itself.
Honestly it’s wild to see this kind of logic of HN. Goes to show how much technology has become more about business culture than about the technology itself.
You must agree that open source software and physical hardware installed on buildings powering a critical service are different things? The ISPs have enormous labor forces that are represented by telecom unions, this is an extremely regulated heavily subsidized industry. Open source software has nothing to do with this.
http://guifi.net has worked for well over a decade, providing monthly fee free internet connectivity to tens of thousands of homes and businesses across Spain.
NYC Mesh's model isn't groundbreaking, rather it is set up like Guifi.net to encourage other small businesses to crop up supporting individuals who want to join the network.
NYC Mesh's model isn't groundbreaking, rather it is set up like Guifi.net to encourage other small businesses to crop up supporting individuals who want to join the network.
> Furthermore the “volunteer” who installed required a $50 tip to come out.
I assumed the tip wasn’t a hard requirement? Is there a reason you thought otherwise? Otherwise it wouldn’t be a tip.
Obviously, it would be crappy not to give them anything if you’re a well-to-do person, but one of the purposes is to service lower-income households.
I assumed the tip wasn’t a hard requirement? Is there a reason you thought otherwise? Otherwise it wouldn’t be a tip.
Obviously, it would be crappy not to give them anything if you’re a well-to-do person, but one of the purposes is to service lower-income households.
I’m certainly all for community projects like this, but you’re right. This is just creating an under-the-table economy. For some reason The NY Times gets mad at people who do legal tax avoidance, but supports the “little guy” making outright under-the-table income.
what ever happened to the possibilities/power of those LinkNYC phone booth towers all over the city? I was impressed/very excited about them when they first deployed. The speed coming off those things was great. Could those not add tons of nodes to the Mesh? or are they all in the 'wrong' part of the city heh
We tried repeating LinkNYC kiosks a few years ago but it wasn't reliable enough, making it too difficult to support.
We have instructions for a DIY connection on our website and a channel on our Slack where you can ask other members about problems. The DHCP lease tends to go dead every couple of months and we have various things to try when that happens.
We have instructions for a DIY connection on our website and a channel on our Slack where you can ask other members about problems. The DHCP lease tends to go dead every couple of months and we have various things to try when that happens.
How applicable is this model to rural or mountainous regions?
Community networks are pretty common in rural areas in other countries. My favorites are guifi.net and b4rn.org.uk. They both use lots of fiber running through farms.
A mesh network requires short hops or line of sight and willing participants. You might come up short on all accounts.
A traditional WISP model might be more practical, if you can secure tower sites.
A traditional WISP model might be more practical, if you can secure tower sites.
It bothers me that people are not more suspicious of things like this. Setting up a mesh internet grid is not a trivial engineering task. You would need to recruit at least several extremely skilled, extremely expensive network engineers with phenomenal understanding of how antennas work and radio wave propagation. You would have to run operations 24/7. You would need skilled lawyers in local, state, and federal law to fend off the legal challenges. Also you would have to have fierce integrity and honesty to not sell the data to recoup some of your costs.
In addition to all this, you would have to be running an aggressive counterintelligence program internally, because such an operation any intelligence agency would love to be part of, whether you know it or not.
The lack of widespread computer science knowledge in the United States makes it so we all continually fall for what are likely scams or intelligence agency plays.
In addition to all this, you would have to be running an aggressive counterintelligence program internally, because such an operation any intelligence agency would love to be part of, whether you know it or not.
The lack of widespread computer science knowledge in the United States makes it so we all continually fall for what are likely scams or intelligence agency plays.
The NSA already taps normal ISPs; why would them compromising this be any worse?
Ignoring the lack of faith in humanity, what legal challenges are you afraid of?
That said, I don’t have a Mesh internet connection because I live in a large apartment building and would need permission from the building owner to install anything. Even then, there are thirty-odd units in my building so splitting that antenna bandwidth between all of us wouldn’t amount to much. A better option (that Mesh provides) is for large buildings to get fiber connections and share bandwidth with the Mesh network at large. But that would require considerable involvement from my building management and they couldn’t care less.
Given how common that is it seems like a big hurdle for the project, while corporate competitors like Starry will probably have an easier time convincing skeptical owners. Fingers crossed that as they roll out more locations more building owners will get on board.