Deleting no longer prompts on Android(support.google.com)
support.google.com
Deleting no longer prompts on Android
https://support.google.com/voice/thread/121731933/deleting-no-longer-prompts-on-android-delete-icon-next-to-archive
55 comments
100% agreed. I am a person with very shaky hands when doing something. It may be 'essential tremors', but I've never bothered to get a diagnosis. It's come and gone since I was a kid.
I loathe typing on a phone, or worse, clicking some tiny thing on the phone. The act of tensing my thumb and moving it makes it go haywire at times.
I'm not looking for sympathy, at all. But realize at least -some- of us users will misclick things often, especially on mobile.
I loathe typing on a phone, or worse, clicking some tiny thing on the phone. The act of tensing my thumb and moving it makes it go haywire at times.
I'm not looking for sympathy, at all. But realize at least -some- of us users will misclick things often, especially on mobile.
CBD oil, tincture dropper until your tongue.
That goes right up there with the advice of putting a jade egg in your vagina... CBD the cure all! ...except for several things:
1) CBD may not be legal/available where they are,
2) They may be in a job that tests regularly,
3) You're offering medical advice to someone when you don't even know what the diagnosis could be,
4) This person could easily be one of those who has adverse reactions to cannabinoids.
So yeah, shoving a jade egg up their cooch may actually have been the safer advice here.
1) CBD may not be legal/available where they are,
2) They may be in a job that tests regularly,
3) You're offering medical advice to someone when you don't even know what the diagnosis could be,
4) This person could easily be one of those who has adverse reactions to cannabinoids.
So yeah, shoving a jade egg up their cooch may actually have been the safer advice here.
I don’t really see configurability being a reasonable solution to this problem for any group of people. Letting people configure the order in which the delete and archive buttons appear, or whether each button shows a confirm dialog first, isn’t going to address anyone’s problem of having accidentally deleted things permanently.
I mean the quoted words are from a "Diamond Product Expert", not an "UI Design Expert", so I wouldn't take that rant seriously. Hehe.
I guess it's just some team in Google couldn't decide whether or not "Do you want to delete N messages?" is statistically a good enough prompt message. They'll figure it out eventually ;)
I guess it's just some team in Google couldn't decide whether or not "Do you want to delete N messages?" is statistically a good enough prompt message. They'll figure it out eventually ;)
I've used Google voice for some time but I feel that they have abandoned the product for a while and will be giving it the axe like they did with Hangouts and their other chats. It really sucked when Hangouts shut down and now I couldn't get the chats within the new Google Chat app. I miss the old Xmpp Gchat honestly!
Speaking of XMPP I'm in the process of switching over to https://jmp.chat/ for a VOIP text solution which has worked great so far. If you own the Xmpp server you have even more control.
Speaking of XMPP I'm in the process of switching over to https://jmp.chat/ for a VOIP text solution which has worked great so far. If you own the Xmpp server you have even more control.
I've used Google Voice from before it was even Google Voice, it was called Grand Central or something and they gave me free business cards with my number on it.
GV has always been a red headed step child product. It doesn't work natively with any android smart watch, its integrations into other products is sketchy and flaky (like there used to be a google voice widget for gmail). Features have been slowly deteriorating for years. The only reason I still use it as my main number is that it's easy to text in my browser. I don't know if that's easy to do with carrier websites but I've certainly never seen them advertise it.
It's 2021 and I still can't get video texts on GV. Well, I can, but they're literally less than 240p resolution. To the point it's difficult to even tell what's happening. And before potato quality, it was flat out not an option for like a decade when every single phone supported it.
Group texting also seems to not really work, and the "reactions" people on iphones use aren't supported.
GV has always been a red headed step child product. It doesn't work natively with any android smart watch, its integrations into other products is sketchy and flaky (like there used to be a google voice widget for gmail). Features have been slowly deteriorating for years. The only reason I still use it as my main number is that it's easy to text in my browser. I don't know if that's easy to do with carrier websites but I've certainly never seen them advertise it.
It's 2021 and I still can't get video texts on GV. Well, I can, but they're literally less than 240p resolution. To the point it's difficult to even tell what's happening. And before potato quality, it was flat out not an option for like a decade when every single phone supported it.
Group texting also seems to not really work, and the "reactions" people on iphones use aren't supported.
xmpp gchat still works. It was supposed to be deprecated long ago, but it still works (maybe with limitations). I use it on my phone with conversations.im. You'll need an app password to log in.
Yeah but I couldn't use it for the Voice Texts/hangouts stuff so it was limited for me :/
I've dealt with Bluescat before: https://np.reddit.com/r/Googlevoice/comments/hbatkp/whats_th...
Note how BluesCatReddit warns me to not use the feature I am asking about because it is surely a secret method that non-experts like me aren't supposed to know about, then when I point out that Google itself documents the feature, desperately tries to maintain his sage position above non-experts like me by generously deigning to tutor me on how to use said feature (which, again, he had no idea existed until I pointed it out to him). Absolutely nothing to do with actually answering my question, of course.
Note how BluesCatReddit warns me to not use the feature I am asking about because it is surely a secret method that non-experts like me aren't supposed to know about, then when I point out that Google itself documents the feature, desperately tries to maintain his sage position above non-experts like me by generously deigning to tutor me on how to use said feature (which, again, he had no idea existed until I pointed it out to him). Absolutely nothing to do with actually answering my question, of course.
Bluescat response is the posterboy for not letting community support reign supreme. My goodness.
If he reads HackerNews and is looking at our responses, I hope he sees mine.
He needs a vacation. Right now. Like, no computer, somewhere elsewhere.
That’s the kind of response I’ve seen at work when covid is getting everyone angry and hateful.
There’s nothing helpful in it, it’s attacking, and frankly, he needs to go read it later and think about what he’s said from another person’s perspective, especially a person with any sort of disability. He claims “30 years IT experience” and yet seems to have never worked with a 70 year old and a computer. Even their mouse movement is shaken.
He needs a vacation. Right now. Like, no computer, somewhere elsewhere.
That’s the kind of response I’ve seen at work when covid is getting everyone angry and hateful.
There’s nothing helpful in it, it’s attacking, and frankly, he needs to go read it later and think about what he’s said from another person’s perspective, especially a person with any sort of disability. He claims “30 years IT experience” and yet seems to have never worked with a 70 year old and a computer. Even their mouse movement is shaken.
>He claims “30 years IT experience”
I've written here before about what killed Usenet (<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27636397>). Quoting myself:
>That said, there are server- and client-side anti-spam tools of varying effectiveness. A related but bigger problem for Usenet is people of the type this post discusses, those with actual mental illness; think "50 year olds with undiagnosed autism". Usenet is such a niche network nowadays that there has to be meaningful motivation to participate, and if the motivation is not a sincere interest in the subject it's, in my experience, going to be people with very troubled personal lives which their online behavior reflects. Again, as overall traffic declined, their relative contribution and visibility grew. This, not spam, is what has mostly killed Usenet.
Serving as volunteer "help" for a Google product on a Google Groups forum also counts as a niche network, with similar unfortunate results when not enough sane people participate to outweigh the weirdos.
I've written here before about what killed Usenet (<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27636397>). Quoting myself:
>That said, there are server- and client-side anti-spam tools of varying effectiveness. A related but bigger problem for Usenet is people of the type this post discusses, those with actual mental illness; think "50 year olds with undiagnosed autism". Usenet is such a niche network nowadays that there has to be meaningful motivation to participate, and if the motivation is not a sincere interest in the subject it's, in my experience, going to be people with very troubled personal lives which their online behavior reflects. Again, as overall traffic declined, their relative contribution and visibility grew. This, not spam, is what has mostly killed Usenet.
Serving as volunteer "help" for a Google product on a Google Groups forum also counts as a niche network, with similar unfortunate results when not enough sane people participate to outweigh the weirdos.
I browsed some of his other responses, and he seems to be under some delusion that he works for Google. I guess he sort of does, since he's the only support many customers will encounter.
The worst part is that he's allowed to recommend his own answers above others, inflating his own stats... regardless of how much of an unhelpful arse he is in his own replies.
Yes, that flabbergasted me the most in this whole affair. Shouldn't we assume that he achieved his Diamond status by steadily upvoting himself all this time? Good god.
They are a diamond platinum supreme member, doesn't that count for something? Sadly, he/she's paid as much as the asker.
In seriousness, I recognize that name from past Google searches. They've been doing 'support' for a long time.
In seriousness, I recognize that name from past Google searches. They've been doing 'support' for a long time.
It's sad that Google has chosen the support strategy of having these derelict forums staffed only by volunteers. Even sadder that this is probably the closest thing OP will get to a professional response from Google.
What pathology of Google internal culture is responsible for this support site? Don't blame the human that you're all piling on; blame the process that allowed this abusive response to be a pinned (self-pinned!) top answer with a 0:105 "helpful?" vote ratio.
What I don't understand is that if you believe your users are idiots doesn't that mean you need to design a product that an idiot can use?
Berating users is just ridiculous and does nothing but harm the product. I am seriously pissed off at this culture of "we know best." It is a disconnect from the userbase and we've constantly seen it lead to the product being overtaken by a company that doesn't follow this principle.
Berating users is just ridiculous and does nothing but harm the product. I am seriously pissed off at this culture of "we know best." It is a disconnect from the userbase and we've constantly seen it lead to the product being overtaken by a company that doesn't follow this principle.
Like every other part of Google support, there aren't any google employees actually involved. "Diamond Product Expert" is just a tag a community user can earn by getting enough points.
I'm not sure how that makes things better. In fact, I think it makes things worse. You're letting random people that are self described experts? That's a great way to create a toxic environment. Every single place I've gone to that has a "community support" that actual employees rarely or never visit has been extremely toxic and unhelpful. They create feedback loops for this toxicity and "in crowd."
That, to me, is precisely the problem.
Actually providing support to users would require hiring a lot of people and maybe actually empowering them to take actions that were helpful; but, probably empowering them opens security concerns, so they'd just tell you to use the self-service things that are probably broken anyway. So that option is not a good use of Google's resources.
Moderating a community self-help site well requires a lot of people too, so just leaving it to the community seems like the only option for Google.
I've seen a lot of companies try these sites, and they start with real employees putting real responses, but it quickly spirals into unanswered questions and terribleness. The only ones that work are where there are lots of company paid moderators keeping things focused and productive, but I'm sure management thought community support was going to reduce support costs.
Moderating a community self-help site well requires a lot of people too, so just leaving it to the community seems like the only option for Google.
I've seen a lot of companies try these sites, and they start with real employees putting real responses, but it quickly spirals into unanswered questions and terribleness. The only ones that work are where there are lots of company paid moderators keeping things focused and productive, but I'm sure management thought community support was going to reduce support costs.
I’m fine blaming both. A poor platform doesn’t excuse toxic behavior.
Google Sheets has 'insert a row below' just above 'delete row' in the context menu; I am very careful when using a touchpad.
Another one that is more of an unfortunate clash: Ctrl-0 is the default for resetting the zoom in Firefox but in Sheets it will delete columns.
Being able to disable functionality or require a dialog box would fix both those issues.
Another one that is more of an unfortunate clash: Ctrl-0 is the default for resetting the zoom in Firefox but in Sheets it will delete columns.
Being able to disable functionality or require a dialog box would fix both those issues.
One major difference though: it sounds like this Google Voice trash button is permanent, whereas Sheets has an undo button. I'm not a designer, but isn't this like design 101? Permanent action -> dialog box required.
If you notice the rows/columns have disappeared then you can undo the action.
Isn't the lack of newly-inserted row a big enough clue? Or the change in insertion point when you go to insert again?
How many levels of error do you want to cover? TFA's point is there is zero chance for recompense here. If you're not going to have Trash or Undo functionality, you need to prompt.
How many levels of error do you want to cover? TFA's point is there is zero chance for recompense here. If you're not going to have Trash or Undo functionality, you need to prompt.
You can't always guarantee your focus is 100%, no matter how much you'd like it to be.
I get TFA's point is about irreversibility, but having those buttons close to each other is part of the problem.
I get TFA's point is about irreversibility, but having those buttons close to each other is part of the problem.
At least in both situations there Sheets allows you to undo the delete, so the closeness to other commands isn't so lethal. I've got no UX or UI training, but I gotta imagine that it'd be a basic rule that delete actions must always include a confirmation request or an undo option. In Voice, the lack of both confirmation and undo is just ludicrous.
>Another one that is more of an unfortunate clash: Ctrl-0 is the default for resetting the zoom in Firefox but in Sheets it will delete columns.
Odd; in Excel Cmd-0/Ctrl-0 hides the selected cell's column, as opposed to deleting it.
Odd; in Excel Cmd-0/Ctrl-0 hides the selected cell's column, as opposed to deleting it.
Oh I was wrong. It's the same as you suggest: it hides columns in Sheets too.
(too late to edit) I was wrong. It hides columns instead of deleting them.
I love the idea of Google Voice, but the actual execution has me looking for an alternative to migrate to, especially since they stopped message forwarding a week or two back.
Would love suggestions for feature+ compatible alternatives — and would actually prefer paid over free, since that means the incentives are better lined up.
Would love suggestions for feature+ compatible alternatives — and would actually prefer paid over free, since that means the incentives are better lined up.
(Warning: shameless self promotion)
I’ve run an app the last 8 years which is the same idea but lets you have multiple numbers, for as long or short as you want. Calling, texting, voicemail (with custom greeting), outgoing caller ID, etc.
There are unlimited plans for $9.99/mo or pay-as-you go plans starting at $2.99/mo which include a few minutes and texts each month but are primarily credit-based (about $0.02 per outgoing text or answered call minute; incoming texts are free)
Happy to answer any questions!
Link: https://www.unlistedmobile.com
I’ve run an app the last 8 years which is the same idea but lets you have multiple numbers, for as long or short as you want. Calling, texting, voicemail (with custom greeting), outgoing caller ID, etc.
There are unlimited plans for $9.99/mo or pay-as-you go plans starting at $2.99/mo which include a few minutes and texts each month but are primarily credit-based (about $0.02 per outgoing text or answered call minute; incoming texts are free)
Happy to answer any questions!
Link: https://www.unlistedmobile.com
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Check out https://jmp.chat/
Thanks... I've tried it before. I was pretty impressed, although I couldn't find any great XMPP clients on Linux at the time, there were a few promising ones. I think I'll give it another try. I love the idea of being able to save chat history locally and backup local chat history with regular backups.
I’ve been using Telnyx for a while for burner numbers for a couple of ‘burner’ numbers.
Outside of the phone number itself (or the cost to port), it’s pretty much pay for what you use. Does require some setup once you have a number, but as long as you’ve got a SIP capable device (or desktop/mobile app like Bria) you can use the number on it.
Outside of the phone number itself (or the cost to port), it’s pretty much pay for what you use. Does require some setup once you have a number, but as long as you’ve got a SIP capable device (or desktop/mobile app like Bria) you can use the number on it.
Wow, the guy who responded is a total douche. I can see it would be easy to tap the wrong button on a phone.
Where do these people crawl out of the woodwork from?
Where do these people crawl out of the woodwork from?
Featuring a guest appearance from the unpaid Product Apologist. Who I'm sure is just jaded from helping users for too long after they started doing it to be helpful.
Tech really is something.
Tech really is something.
It really blows my mind that these Google forums are entirely staffed by unpaid people who are deemed "experts" (with no inside knowledge of how the service in question is developed or what the plans for it are). Why do people volunteer to help a TRILLION dollar corporation with their customer support?
>It really blows my mind that these Google forums are entirely staffed by unpaid people who are deemed "experts" (with no inside knowledge of how the service in question is developed or what the plans for it are).
I've dealt with Bluescat before: https://np.reddit.com/r/Googlevoice/comments/hbatkp/whats_th...
Note how BluesCatReddit warns me to not use the feature I am asking about because it is surely a secret method that non-experts like me aren't supposed to know about, then when I point out that Google itself documents the feature, desperately tries to maintain his sage position above non-experts like me by generously deigning to tutor me on how to use said feature (which, again, he had no idea existed until I pointed it out to him). Absolutely nothing to do with actually answering my question, of course.
I've dealt with Bluescat before: https://np.reddit.com/r/Googlevoice/comments/hbatkp/whats_th...
Note how BluesCatReddit warns me to not use the feature I am asking about because it is surely a secret method that non-experts like me aren't supposed to know about, then when I point out that Google itself documents the feature, desperately tries to maintain his sage position above non-experts like me by generously deigning to tutor me on how to use said feature (which, again, he had no idea existed until I pointed it out to him). Absolutely nothing to do with actually answering my question, of course.
It's possible that some people think Google will hire them this way. They probably hear about the great salaries and benefits that programmers get, and think they can get it too if they just try hard enough.
The desire to be helpful is rooted in human biology.
https://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/01/science/01human.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/01/science/01human.html
This isn't a desire to be helpful. A desire to feel important maybe? Is Bluescat lashing out because they can't find a good answer to the question and process no real power to fix it? Who knows, but the desire there isn't to be helpful.
I guess because they feel like they are helping out users, not helping out Google.
Some people want to help other people.
Some people want to help other people.
Except Diamond Product Expert Bluescat apparently
I would hardly call the person who responded "helpful".
One person does not disprove the rule.
I am about as backend focused as they come and even I know a single pixel left or right should never be the difference between saving your mothers last voicemail and losing it forever.
Wow the guy who wrote the reply is an outright psycho
> I have to say, this is the most ridiculous complaint I've seen this month. Users complained for several years that Google Voice didn't have the ability to delete multiple text messages. Now it does. If you can't cope with figuring out the difference between a trash can icon and a file folder icon, then don't use Google Voice.
The insidiousness of assuming user bases as monolithic entities has been getting worse.
Instead of just assuming that a mythical monolith exists as a representation of users, maybe it's possible that many different types of users exist and that at least being able to add configurability would solve 90% of the issues that occur when groups of people with different opinions use the same app?
The recommended answer is not a productive discussion maker. You shouldn't hand-wave valid UI/UX design concerns due to wishes that another part of the user base clamored for. And besides, what if I tap the button by accident? Why was it a good idea to put the "Delete All" button next to the "Archive All" button? And before I forget, I've actually mistaken two different exit ramps before, so the first paragraph is uncalled for.