Ask HN: It seems like everyone is getting rich?
111 comments
It is not true, you see it because people like to brag. But they prefer to hide their problems, sometimes very deep. The society discourages talking about these things unless you are close friends. Whereas positive aspects are amplified.
I give you an example. I have a couple of friends with two kids. They have an amazing FB/Instagram feed. You immediately see a wonderful model family living in a beautiful house, traveling together, enjoying every moment together, all smiling. It seems like they are always having fun in all possible places (it made my other friend who can't have kids a bit depressed).
One day I decided to visit their house and was a bit shocked. The kids were basically terrorizing the family. The father was half-alive but trying to smile all the time, sometimes unsuccessfully. The whole house was very cold because they spent too much on it and couldn't afford heating it adequately. But the most depressing was a bad smell from nearby chimneys of their neighbors. Apparently they couldn't do anything about. For me it was a living hell, I couldn't live in such a place for one day.
I give you an example. I have a couple of friends with two kids. They have an amazing FB/Instagram feed. You immediately see a wonderful model family living in a beautiful house, traveling together, enjoying every moment together, all smiling. It seems like they are always having fun in all possible places (it made my other friend who can't have kids a bit depressed).
One day I decided to visit their house and was a bit shocked. The kids were basically terrorizing the family. The father was half-alive but trying to smile all the time, sometimes unsuccessfully. The whole house was very cold because they spent too much on it and couldn't afford heating it adequately. But the most depressing was a bad smell from nearby chimneys of their neighbors. Apparently they couldn't do anything about. For me it was a living hell, I couldn't live in such a place for one day.
I know a couple similar to this. Social media with rich vacations, fancy drinks, posting the new cars they bought. BMW one day. SUV the next.
Reality is they have a very low income. With a double mortgage on their house. And blew through an inheritance. Have trouble keeping up with repairs, roof, etc. With an uncertain financial future, they are always in a state of worry.
Reality is they have a very low income. With a double mortgage on their house. And blew through an inheritance. Have trouble keeping up with repairs, roof, etc. With an uncertain financial future, they are always in a state of worry.
"With an uncertain financial future, they are always in a state of worry."
To be fair, I have a job and I'm cheap. I still have these concerns.
To be fair, I have a job and I'm cheap. I still have these concerns.
> But the most depressing was a bad smell from nearby chimneys of their neighbors. Apparently they couldn't do anything about.
This is fixable, but requires central air in the house. Just don't ever open your windows in the smog season, and have all air intake go through a set of filters (before it's pumped into the rooms) which take out all particles and smells. Not the cheapest thing to buy and install, but should solve the problem.
This is fixable, but requires central air in the house. Just don't ever open your windows in the smog season, and have all air intake go through a set of filters (before it's pumped into the rooms) which take out all particles and smells. Not the cheapest thing to buy and install, but should solve the problem.
Someone in my family lost over 20K in bitcoin when he sold for lower than what he bought them for during recent ups and downs. So yea, this is nothing but selection bias. Not to mention that outside of HN echo chamber, there are plenty of people who have no idea how to do crypto, index funds, startups and what not. They go to work, get a paycheck, do may be a 401K and live paycheck to paycheck.
I mined more than a few thousand Bitcoin back in the pre-“Bitcoin pizza” days when it was a complete curiosity. Difficulty so low you could chuck a couple dozen desktops at it for a weekend and come back with dozens and dozens of Bitcoin on Monday morning.
I basically used it as a benchmark and never even saved a single wallet file, it was worthless junk data at the time since no one was even sure it was going to be worth something.
It’s taken years since the first booms past $10k but I’m pretty zen now about the fact I threw away what was basically a hybrid between Schrödinger’s cat and a lottery ticket that one day turned into stuff worth a couple hundred of million dollars.
Edit: hope no one thinks I mean this in a “at least you only lost $20k” or “you think that’s bad” sort of way. I definitely have a sympathy for that feeling of loss, and share this story to highlight just how impossible it can be to predicted future value. There are lots of similar stories about startups like Dropbox trying to sell to Apple, or Blockbuster passing on Netflix and the list goes on. The lesson is to be accept the outcome of your past choices as the right one at the time (as long as there’s no real direct negative repercussions, but there’s not normally when it comes to investments) and be happy you got what you did from your choice at the time… be it a lawn ornament, paperweight, some deeper knowledge of Linux clusters, or a few thousand dollars.
I basically used it as a benchmark and never even saved a single wallet file, it was worthless junk data at the time since no one was even sure it was going to be worth something.
It’s taken years since the first booms past $10k but I’m pretty zen now about the fact I threw away what was basically a hybrid between Schrödinger’s cat and a lottery ticket that one day turned into stuff worth a couple hundred of million dollars.
Edit: hope no one thinks I mean this in a “at least you only lost $20k” or “you think that’s bad” sort of way. I definitely have a sympathy for that feeling of loss, and share this story to highlight just how impossible it can be to predicted future value. There are lots of similar stories about startups like Dropbox trying to sell to Apple, or Blockbuster passing on Netflix and the list goes on. The lesson is to be accept the outcome of your past choices as the right one at the time (as long as there’s no real direct negative repercussions, but there’s not normally when it comes to investments) and be happy you got what you did from your choice at the time… be it a lawn ornament, paperweight, some deeper knowledge of Linux clusters, or a few thousand dollars.
100% the only way this would've paid out is if you stored them and truly forgot them.
If I did this back then, I would've sold in 2012/2013 for like $10 and made a couple hundred/thousand in college and thought I was rich.
Then now I'd prob be neurotically depressed thinking about how I could've had hundreds of mil lol.
It's a blessing dude.
If I did this back then, I would've sold in 2012/2013 for like $10 and made a couple hundred/thousand in college and thought I was rich.
Then now I'd prob be neurotically depressed thinking about how I could've had hundreds of mil lol.
It's a blessing dude.
> few thousand Bitcoin
If I had that, I would dig my old hardware and tried all the tools I could find to scan drives for remnants of the wallet file(s). Maybe even wrote my own.
If I had that, I would dig my old hardware and tried all the tools I could find to scan drives for remnants of the wallet file(s). Maybe even wrote my own.
That is a great philosophy to have, and a great description of these hindsight opportunities.
I’ll admit it does help that it never really caught me by surprise. I would hear about Bitcoin every now and then in the years between my early experiments while at university doing silly things with a stack of OpenMosix enabled Linux live CDs like scripting up a master disk on a CDRW (to modify the script each week) to auto generate a wallet spawn as many processes as there were OpenMosix nodes in the cluster and the spend the weekend wandering around from lab to lab rebooting any spare desktop into another in-memory OpenMosix node, and have the master print a summary of the mined coins to a printer Monday morning then delete everything by rebooting back into the normal operating system early Monday morning before students got in for classes.
I had my fun and learned some cool stuff. It’s been the anchor I hold whenever I notice the price of Bitcoin and do the trivial multiplication between the current cost of Bitcoin and what I remember roughly mining all those years ago. But like I said, regular exposure to the ideal does help. It’s much easier to come to terms with “loosing”/not acquiring a thousand dollars or ten thousand or a hundred thousand before it turns into millions of dollars than it is to come to terms with suddenly discovering that something you discarded and never thought about is worth a hundred million.
I had my fun and learned some cool stuff. It’s been the anchor I hold whenever I notice the price of Bitcoin and do the trivial multiplication between the current cost of Bitcoin and what I remember roughly mining all those years ago. But like I said, regular exposure to the ideal does help. It’s much easier to come to terms with “loosing”/not acquiring a thousand dollars or ten thousand or a hundred thousand before it turns into millions of dollars than it is to come to terms with suddenly discovering that something you discarded and never thought about is worth a hundred million.
You would have sold it at all for $1000 anyway and thought if it as a lucky goof lol.
This is an exact example of why I don't waste any moment of my life with social media. It's just loaded with fake trash like that. People trying to show off how they're successful and have an amazing life, but reality is they're barely scraping by, and often miserable. Social media is about as accurate of a representation of life as reality TV is an accurate representation of people.
Even if you're doing fine, it's probably better not to submit your life for review. It incentivises you to turn moments into content, to check in instead of being there. You know your happy. You don't have to prove it.
What bad smell comes from a chimney like a burning soot smell?
This reminds me of a Newsweek magazine cover at the height of the dot-com mania in 1999: "everyone's getting rich but me!"
https://backissues.com/issue/Newsweek-July-05-1999
https://backissues.com/issue/Newsweek-July-05-1999
Despite so many having so much, it doesn't make them any happier. We still see suicide, overdose, greed, selfishness and many other problems. Yes, money does make things easier for those who possess it, but it shouldn't be the goal. Look at the positives in your life, be grateful, pursue meaningful experiences with the ones you love and live within your means. Strive to be better each day in all of the areas that are important to you.
If it is any consolation, we will probably experience massive inflation in the next 20-30 years. Those with primarily financial (and not physical) assets will be hardest hit. At some point the economic wizardry will hit the fan.
But on a less depressing note, I suggest paying less attention to the areas where people are “getting rich.” Money isn’t the measure of true value and you will rarely find a correlation between wealth and wisdom.
But on a less depressing note, I suggest paying less attention to the areas where people are “getting rich.” Money isn’t the measure of true value and you will rarely find a correlation between wealth and wisdom.
Agree. I am more jealous of those out on the Pacific Crest Trail than I am of someone driving a new Tesla.
5-10 years imo
I originally wrote 5-10 but didn’t want to seem too ominous. But yeah, I’d bet on some serious issues in the latter end of the 2020s.
I was banking on it happening in the next year or so. If it’s not going to happen until 5 or 10 years then it seems like not joining in with the fools now and investing in FAANG stock / bitcoin means you’ll miss out on massive gains in the interim...
It is difficult to go wrong if you invest in businesses that are providing real value to people and trade at attractive valuations. It is unlikely to make you wealthy, but it is unlikely to make you poor either.
The problem with 'joining in with the fools' is that it relies on the 'greater fool theory' to make superior returns. And you could well end up being the 'greater fool'.
The problem with 'joining in with the fools' is that it relies on the 'greater fool theory' to make superior returns. And you could well end up being the 'greater fool'.
Worried about this. I hear that a loaf of bread will be 20 dollars and I see it happening. Is there anything I can do to prepare for this? Such as investing in more stocks, index funds,etc? I feel like my income isn't matching the rate of inflation.
Personally I am trying to be more self-sufficient. Growing food, cooking common items from scratch (like bread), learning how to repair things, etc. And so I put money into items that are both durable and help further this goal of self-sufficiency.
A safety razor and a 1,000 pack of blades is a recent purchase. Properly maintained, it will last forever, which will come in handy when Schick razors are $25 each.
I’m not sure how that scales up to $50k or $100k but it’s a starting point.
This subreddit is a good place to get ideas: https://www.reddit.com/r/BuyItForLife/
A safety razor and a 1,000 pack of blades is a recent purchase. Properly maintained, it will last forever, which will come in handy when Schick razors are $25 each.
I’m not sure how that scales up to $50k or $100k but it’s a starting point.
This subreddit is a good place to get ideas: https://www.reddit.com/r/BuyItForLife/
I honestly don't understand what is hard to comprehend about this. No food -> famine -> hyperinflation of food prices as sellers take every dollar you have.
The question is, how is that scenario supposed to happen and even if it did, why not just invest into farms? Is the government going to repossess all the land off the "white colonialists" and give it to native americans? If yes then the country didn't fall because of hyperinflation, hyperinflation was the symptom like every other country where the problems happened first and then the symptoms came.
The question is, how is that scenario supposed to happen and even if it did, why not just invest into farms? Is the government going to repossess all the land off the "white colonialists" and give it to native americans? If yes then the country didn't fall because of hyperinflation, hyperinflation was the symptom like every other country where the problems happened first and then the symptoms came.
Two points...
First, high inflation is good for holders of some financial assets (e.g. stocks) and bad for others (bonds). It's good for existing borrowers and bad for existing lenders. It's good for those in debt and bad for those who saved cash. Essentially, high inflation punishes financial frugality and rewards financial speculation.
Second, massive inflation-caused economic collapse is highly unlikely in any developed nation today. The more likely path is either 1) reasonable economic growth with high inflation (say 5% to 10%) or 2) economic stagnation similar to what Japan has experienced for the last few decades.
Be aware that the people predicting debt-fueled hyperinflation-style economic doom & gloom have been doing so for nearly half a century now. They have been saying it's a few years away for decades. Every recession they say "we were right, it'll just get worse!" They have been wrong every time for 40 years. Maybe they'll be right in the coming few decades... but I wouldn't bet my financial future on it.
First, high inflation is good for holders of some financial assets (e.g. stocks) and bad for others (bonds). It's good for existing borrowers and bad for existing lenders. It's good for those in debt and bad for those who saved cash. Essentially, high inflation punishes financial frugality and rewards financial speculation.
Second, massive inflation-caused economic collapse is highly unlikely in any developed nation today. The more likely path is either 1) reasonable economic growth with high inflation (say 5% to 10%) or 2) economic stagnation similar to what Japan has experienced for the last few decades.
Be aware that the people predicting debt-fueled hyperinflation-style economic doom & gloom have been doing so for nearly half a century now. They have been saying it's a few years away for decades. Every recession they say "we were right, it'll just get worse!" They have been wrong every time for 40 years. Maybe they'll be right in the coming few decades... but I wouldn't bet my financial future on it.
Maybe someone can explain, but to me it seems there's always been some kind of financial lever to pull to correct during a recession (quantitative easing), I have to wonder will there always be some other mechanism that can be invented(?) to fix things?
When things like national debt far outstrips GDP and everything is hyperleveraged, it seems the way out so far has been to create more.
When things like national debt far outstrips GDP and everything is hyperleveraged, it seems the way out so far has been to create more.
I’m not basing my prediction on the doomsayers, more on general decline of the Western world overall. There are too many issues piling up and to my mind, this will eventually cause some serious economic problems. But I’m not an economist, so I don’t take my word for it.
My broader point is simply that the rich today are succeeding in a system which might not be stable in a few decades.
My broader point is simply that the rich today are succeeding in a system which might not be stable in a few decades.
The western world is better off by almost all socio-economic metrics than a half century ago. And hugely better off than a century ago. You actually are basing your predictions on doomsayers.
Oh, and debt levels are high because rates and inflation is low.
Oh, and debt levels are high because rates and inflation is low.
No, I’m basing my predictions on a thorough study of history and the phases of civilizations. There are several deep cultural and structural problems with both the US and the EU, and I find it difficult to not see this continuing.
And as far as I know, millennials are economically worse off than their boomer parents.
And as far as I know, millennials are economically worse off than their boomer parents.
There are a bunch of reasons but lets start with a big one.
People get richer but they optimize their tax burden. Remember, debt creates money. There is always enough money in the economy to repay all debts. Interest merely circulates a few times between bank and debtor which may require some inflation but not hyperinflation. There might not be enough tax revenue when those with enough money stop paying them. This causes an excessive tax burden on the working upper class, the middle class and below while Gates and Jeff Bezos earn money off of the appreciation of land which has a much lower tax burden.
People started measuring their wealth through the monopoly of land. Since land is in finite supply inefficient land use and speculation have become profitable because there is an underlying economic rent to be extorted out of people living on or near the land. Governments spend millions or billions on infrastructure only to see untaxed land values go up.
Work piling. Either you get a job or not. The threat of unemployment causes desperation and extreme competition for low skilled jobs while employers start demanding degrees for all the "good jobs" which are locked behind other forms of monopolies like college education and medical licensing. If work was shared among people then we could have a shorter working week like all those economists talking about a 15 hour work week (ok it would be 30 hours or more but still). This is especially pronounced because low skill workers not only compete with other Americans, they also compete with every low skill worker around the world. You need an unfair moat to compete in such a world.
People get richer but they optimize their tax burden. Remember, debt creates money. There is always enough money in the economy to repay all debts. Interest merely circulates a few times between bank and debtor which may require some inflation but not hyperinflation. There might not be enough tax revenue when those with enough money stop paying them. This causes an excessive tax burden on the working upper class, the middle class and below while Gates and Jeff Bezos earn money off of the appreciation of land which has a much lower tax burden.
People started measuring their wealth through the monopoly of land. Since land is in finite supply inefficient land use and speculation have become profitable because there is an underlying economic rent to be extorted out of people living on or near the land. Governments spend millions or billions on infrastructure only to see untaxed land values go up.
Work piling. Either you get a job or not. The threat of unemployment causes desperation and extreme competition for low skilled jobs while employers start demanding degrees for all the "good jobs" which are locked behind other forms of monopolies like college education and medical licensing. If work was shared among people then we could have a shorter working week like all those economists talking about a 15 hour work week (ok it would be 30 hours or more but still). This is especially pronounced because low skill workers not only compete with other Americans, they also compete with every low skill worker around the world. You need an unfair moat to compete in such a world.
>There are too many issues piling up and to my mind, this will eventually cause some serious economic problems. But I’m not an economist, so I don’t take my word for it.
It's the opposite. There half a dozen extremely serious economic problems at the root of the system that were papered over during the WW2 rebuilding of the economy (because growth is easy if you start from nothing) and all the things you worry about are merely their symptoms.
It's the opposite. There half a dozen extremely serious economic problems at the root of the system that were papered over during the WW2 rebuilding of the economy (because growth is easy if you start from nothing) and all the things you worry about are merely their symptoms.
So the question to me boils down to - what to do about it? We could easily have another decade (or 2 or 3) of economic growth before the next crash. The hard part isn't predicting the crash, it is predicting when it will happen.
The best plan as far as I can tell is to be diversified in investments. A home + mortgage protects against inflation, a reasonable mix of stocks and bonds are solid financial investments, enough cash for a good emergency fund, and holding a small % of hard assets and crypto is not a bad idea.
In short, "nobody knows nothing" and we can just invest a little in everything and hope for the best :)
The best plan as far as I can tell is to be diversified in investments. A home + mortgage protects against inflation, a reasonable mix of stocks and bonds are solid financial investments, enough cash for a good emergency fund, and holding a small % of hard assets and crypto is not a bad idea.
In short, "nobody knows nothing" and we can just invest a little in everything and hope for the best :)
In your opinion large diversified equity index funds will be hit hard? Care to quantify your speculation? 50% drawdown? 90%? 100%?
"Those with primarily financial (and not physical) assets will be hardest hit."
I'm not sure this is true.
I'm not sure this is true.
Predicting high inflation while interest rates are low seems crazy to me. The Fed can and will raise interest rates, causing inflation to moderate.
High interest rates will devastate parts of the economy, but that's a different and more well known problem.
High interest rates will devastate parts of the economy, but that's a different and more well known problem.
Can the Fed raise interest rates significantly without bankrupting the Federal government?
The Federal debt needs to be rolled over every now and then. At certain interest rates, the costs of servicing the debt become unacceptably high. Where is that 'breaking point'? If you see some serious analysis of this, please let me know.
But there is a higher bound to which the Fed can feasibly raise interest rates. So it is possible that the Fed will be forced to choose between keeping rates low, keep buying Treasuries and destroy the dollar through runaway inflation, or raise interest rates and bankrupt the US government.
The Federal debt needs to be rolled over every now and then. At certain interest rates, the costs of servicing the debt become unacceptably high. Where is that 'breaking point'? If you see some serious analysis of this, please let me know.
But there is a higher bound to which the Fed can feasibly raise interest rates. So it is possible that the Fed will be forced to choose between keeping rates low, keep buying Treasuries and destroy the dollar through runaway inflation, or raise interest rates and bankrupt the US government.
The Fed doesn't set bond interest rates. Rates on bonds are set by an auction. If bond interest rates are low, it's because bond investors want bonds. Which is to say, they think the US government will have no trouble paying them back. So the government borrows cheaply, and investors believe they will be able to continue to.
The Fed sets a different rate, one that banks use to lend money to each other. It forms kind of a floor for lending. They raise it to reduce lending, and thus slowing down the economy in general (and thus reducing inflation).
They've kept the latter at nearly zero -- arguably for the not-great reason of propping up assets. If anything, raising that would make bonds more attractive relative to stocks, dropping the interest rate further. Instead, we've gotten inflation, but only in the asset markets, not consumer inflation.
They actually wanted consumer inflation to be higher, so that consumers would be forced to put their money in asset markets rather than holding it in cash. They've finally gotten their wish, though it's likely that it is due more to pandemic-related shutdowns than to monetary-based demand.
The Fed sets a different rate, one that banks use to lend money to each other. It forms kind of a floor for lending. They raise it to reduce lending, and thus slowing down the economy in general (and thus reducing inflation).
They've kept the latter at nearly zero -- arguably for the not-great reason of propping up assets. If anything, raising that would make bonds more attractive relative to stocks, dropping the interest rate further. Instead, we've gotten inflation, but only in the asset markets, not consumer inflation.
They actually wanted consumer inflation to be higher, so that consumers would be forced to put their money in asset markets rather than holding it in cash. They've finally gotten their wish, though it's likely that it is due more to pandemic-related shutdowns than to monetary-based demand.
But the Fed is doing QE, which is buying longer maturity treasuries, creating artificial demand, which lowers interest rates.
Short-term treasuries and the fed rate are also directly related. Increase the fed fund rate, and short-term treasury interest rates will have to go up as well to remain competitive.
Short-term treasuries and the fed rate are also directly related. Increase the fed fund rate, and short-term treasury interest rates will have to go up as well to remain competitive.
It's not the rich getting richer, it's monopolists getting richer at the expense of non monopolists. When the strongest monopoly of all, money, ceases to be a monopoly through negative interest rates or inflation then the monopolists simply flee into the next best thing. There isn't just a debt cycle, there is also a land bubble cycle because land is the second most powerful monopoly.
Monopolists not only includes the rich but also average home owners whose land is appreciating absurdly quickly. The problem isn't with negative interest rates or inflation because those merely break the monopoly power of money.
Monopolists not only includes the rich but also average home owners whose land is appreciating absurdly quickly. The problem isn't with negative interest rates or inflation because those merely break the monopoly power of money.
> we will probably experience massive inflation in the next 20-30 years
Go back 40-50 years and you can find people that said the same thing then. Things looked a lot bleaker than today. Gas shortages in the 70s, interest rates of more than 15% in the 80s, cold war, etc.
Go back 40-50 years and you can find people that said the same thing then. Things looked a lot bleaker than today. Gas shortages in the 70s, interest rates of more than 15% in the 80s, cold war, etc.
No, everybody is not getting rich. The median income in the US is about $36K.
Last I saw, median annual income is $41,000 and median annual income required afford to rent a 1-bedroom apartment is only $40,000. Thus, the median single worker is getting by with $20/week left over to finance education, romance, charities, other unnecessary spending, blunders, swindles, alimony, retirement and other accidents. YMMV.
Why would a single worker need a 1-bedroom?
I wonder, are more people getting rich than ever, or is just more visible than ever? How true is the "these days" part of your observation?
login to blind and spend 10 mins there..
How do you not become discouraged? You don't have your identity in doing better than everyone else. And you don't have your happiness in how much money you have or in what you can buy.
And how do you do that? Aye, there's the rub. I think you do it by having your identity and your happiness somewhere else. You need more than just "not there". You need a specific somewhere else.
For me, it's in Jesus Christ and his love for me. (I recognize that most people here won't grab that as their answer...)
And how do you do that? Aye, there's the rub. I think you do it by having your identity and your happiness somewhere else. You need more than just "not there". You need a specific somewhere else.
For me, it's in Jesus Christ and his love for me. (I recognize that most people here won't grab that as their answer...)
Some of us do. I would point people to the book, "Jesus' Terrible Financial Advice". There is confusion among christians and non-christians about wealth and the pursuit of happiness. This book is good at tackling the confusion.
This is a terrific answer. Especially "more than just 'not there'."
That HN submission about hard work rubbed me the wrong way. Because people said that being the best is the only thing that matters you literally shouldn't even try if your IQ is too low. The idea that everyone is trying to become the best is wrong. Everyone is trying to find their place in this world and that may sometimes involve trying to become the best.
I don't know why but everyone seems to forget that the average human becomes amazing (not the best) given enough time and opportunity to develop.
I don't know why but everyone seems to forget that the average human becomes amazing (not the best) given enough time and opportunity to develop.
> being the best is the only thing that matters you literally shouldn't even try if your IQ is too low
Being the best version of yourself. If your IQ is too low, the first step is to improve it. Hard work.
Being the best version of yourself. If your IQ is too low, the first step is to improve it. Hard work.
There's an old commercial where a guy is mowing his huge lawn in front of his huge house and he says "Someone help me. I'm in debt up to my eyeballs."
Lots of people make lots of money and then don't hang onto it. Lots of people who seem to be doing well aren't. It's sometimes all appearances.
I definitely need more money than I've got but... I am not overly impressed with the people who "have dozens of friends and the fun never ends, that is as long as they're buying."
There's also the great song "You don't know how it feels (to be me)" by Tom Petty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TlBTPITo1I
Lots of people make lots of money and then don't hang onto it. Lots of people who seem to be doing well aren't. It's sometimes all appearances.
I definitely need more money than I've got but... I am not overly impressed with the people who "have dozens of friends and the fun never ends, that is as long as they're buying."
There's also the great song "You don't know how it feels (to be me)" by Tom Petty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TlBTPITo1I
Statistically, those who become wealthy quickly are far more likely to end up in bankruptcy than people who never get wealthy. This is because they tend to start living the way they fantasized they'd live if they were rich -- but seriously underestimate how expensive that is.
I know a very wealthy man. I once asked him what the secret to becoming wealthy is. He responded "You're not going to believe me, but this is the truth. It's very simple. Spend less money than you make, and keep doing that."
I know a very wealthy man. I once asked him what the secret to becoming wealthy is. He responded "You're not going to believe me, but this is the truth. It's very simple. Spend less money than you make, and keep doing that."
Join in.
Search for a new job, invest in the stock market, etc. It seems like a great time to find a job.
Search for a new job, invest in the stock market, etc. It seems like a great time to find a job.
Focus on building a life that operates from love and abundance rather than fear and lack.
Grow your skills so you can be of service to others.
These two things will make you most likely to become rich.
“Mastery of Love” and “Millionaire Fastlane” are two books I would recommend.
Grow your skills so you can be of service to others.
These two things will make you most likely to become rich.
“Mastery of Love” and “Millionaire Fastlane” are two books I would recommend.
> Focus on building a life that operates from love and abundance rather than fear and lack.
No offense, but this kind of "positive thinking as financial advice" is extremely pathological. It not only fails to offer any concrete, actionable advice but implicitly blames the subject if they end up poor: "Ah he's poor, he must have been operating from fear, not love." It positions wealth as a signal of moral virtue, not just luck or even skill.
No offense, but this kind of "positive thinking as financial advice" is extremely pathological. It not only fails to offer any concrete, actionable advice but implicitly blames the subject if they end up poor: "Ah he's poor, he must have been operating from fear, not love." It positions wealth as a signal of moral virtue, not just luck or even skill.
IF you acquire happiness from buying stuff, your natural path is to poverty, right? This "positive thinking as financial advice" is the first and most important thing to have a healthy relationship with money. Learn that spending doesn't make one happy has the intended consequence of making building wealth way easier.
You may find it too abstract, but this mindset is exactly why I’ve been successful twice, now going on three times.
I’m also saying this specifically for the sake of the poster because it appears they are operating from a scarcity mindset, which will only hold them back.
I’m also saying this specifically for the sake of the poster because it appears they are operating from a scarcity mindset, which will only hold them back.
You're experiencing a classic case of selection bias. You're much more likely to hear about the person that got rich trading crypto rather than the person that lost a lot of money trading crypto.
^
I'm quite open about my poverty. People literally do not want to hear it.
I'm quite open about my poverty. People literally do not want to hear it.
Why would someone *WANT* to hear it? People that care about you might want to hear if it comforts you, but random people? What would it be, an advice? or to give you an advice? (most) people like to hear and share good stories. The bad ones we share with friends at maximum. Because they might really care about it.
as someone who is always happy to see your comments:
you are interested to me, not because you are poor but because of what you achieve while being poor.
(And if I could choose I'd rather w7sh you were not poor.)
you are interested to me, not because you are poor but because of what you achieve while being poor.
(And if I could choose I'd rather w7sh you were not poor.)
Yeah, I'm a nega-millionaire. The millions my little family should have spent on medical care and didn't is, on the one hand, better than the path I should have been doomed to.
On the other hand, I still can't pay my bills and the absence of millions of dollars worth of medical care and an early death falls under "absence of evidence" or some garbage. It does nothing to give me credibility.
It's a nice little headfuck that has one silver lining: I am not impressed by anyone's net worth. Period. End of sentence.
On the other hand, I still can't pay my bills and the absence of millions of dollars worth of medical care and an early death falls under "absence of evidence" or some garbage. It does nothing to give me credibility.
It's a nice little headfuck that has one silver lining: I am not impressed by anyone's net worth. Period. End of sentence.
If that net worth consists of land it isn't worthy of praise at all until it is taxed according to its monopoly power.
The Germans would say "Ownership has its responsibilities".
The Germans would say "Ownership has its responsibilities".
I experience this as well. I try to balance the good with the bad, but any talk at all of life's struggles is just "too much negativity" for many people.
or the people who made or lost basically nothing trading crypto or riding GME or whatever
the lottery effect
the lottery effect
This isn't just selection bias. At this point you can buy random crypto/stocks/real estate almost blindly and just hold onto it and see its value appreciate more every day. There are occasional dips but on average there's a massive upwards trend.
I'm not implying that growth is impossible; on the contrary, investing your money in stocks/real estate/crypto can generate consistent returns over a long time period. I just interpreted OP's words as meaning more of a "get rich quick" type thing.
This happens periodically. Internet stocks in the late 90s, real estate in 2007. And now we're in an everything bubble.
In December 1996, Alan Greenspan (Federal Reserve Chairman) used the phase "irrational exuberance"[2] to describe the market. It was already obviously a bubble. The bubble didn't burst until March 2000.
Some people think this particular bubble will end with the dollar crashing instead of the market.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrational_exuberance
In December 1996, Alan Greenspan (Federal Reserve Chairman) used the phase "irrational exuberance"[2] to describe the market. It was already obviously a bubble. The bubble didn't burst until March 2000.
Some people think this particular bubble will end with the dollar crashing instead of the market.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrational_exuberance
> Some people think this particular bubble will end with the dollar crashing instead of the market.
That's exactly what's on my mind, you have any links to share?
That's exactly what's on my mind, you have any links to share?
I'm not.
Comparing oneself with other people on a single dimension is a bad idea because likely the most extraordinary thing about that other person is what stands out. Said otherwise, it’s the reason you chose them as a comparison point.
Same with people posting fancy pictures on instagram.
You don’t see that they have a chronic but unseen illness, and that their children hate them, for example.
Specifically though when I see people who have accumulated much more wealth than I have, often they’ve been doing it much longer. It makes more sense when I remind myself that. And yeah I could have started saving/investing earlier, but if the best time to plant a tree was 30 years ago, the 2nd best time is today.
Same with people posting fancy pictures on instagram.
You don’t see that they have a chronic but unseen illness, and that their children hate them, for example.
Specifically though when I see people who have accumulated much more wealth than I have, often they’ve been doing it much longer. It makes more sense when I remind myself that. And yeah I could have started saving/investing earlier, but if the best time to plant a tree was 30 years ago, the 2nd best time is today.
A lot of this apparent wealth if just BS by people trying to sell you something. Just hire a flash car, park it in front of a nice house, take a photo and use it show how 'successful' you are.
Selection bias combined with social media bs. You don't hear about industries that died or barely survived covid. There's a whole segment of population that was employed by those industries.
Don't worry, most of those people will be broke again in two years. Easy come, easy go.
Remember that people show you the highlight reel of their lives while you live the bloopers.
Just try your best and try not to compare yourself to other people as best you can. I find it helpful to think about history and intellectually satisfying things like math -- things that sort of transcend time. It gives me some perspective.
Just try your best and try not to compare yourself to other people as best you can. I find it helpful to think about history and intellectually satisfying things like math -- things that sort of transcend time. It gives me some perspective.
I am no economist, but from what I understood, what’s happening is that central banks have been pumping cash into the economies since the 2009 crisis. They were starting to end this when covid happened, so they reverted course and kept pumping.
What happens when the money supply is high is that banks can then grant cheap loans to people or institutions who are solvable. So they give loans to already rich entities who then invest into all kinds of stuff.
The idea behind pumping cash into the economy is that the cash eventually flows into financing actual real world activity. And it actually works, the crises happened but the economy recovered fast.
But a side effect is that a lot of that cash also goes into raw speculation. crypto, real estate, collectibles. And because so many people are doing it, it creates a bubble which means more people and more cash go into these up-spiraling dreams.
But yes at some point money will get tighter, cheap loans will have to be repaid, and the bubbles will deflate.
Hopefully inflation and taxes on capital would erode all those wins and life will go back to “normal”. But yes that’s optimistic and we’re talking at least 20 years.
What happens when the money supply is high is that banks can then grant cheap loans to people or institutions who are solvable. So they give loans to already rich entities who then invest into all kinds of stuff.
The idea behind pumping cash into the economy is that the cash eventually flows into financing actual real world activity. And it actually works, the crises happened but the economy recovered fast.
But a side effect is that a lot of that cash also goes into raw speculation. crypto, real estate, collectibles. And because so many people are doing it, it creates a bubble which means more people and more cash go into these up-spiraling dreams.
But yes at some point money will get tighter, cheap loans will have to be repaid, and the bubbles will deflate.
Hopefully inflation and taxes on capital would erode all those wins and life will go back to “normal”. But yes that’s optimistic and we’re talking at least 20 years.
The problem is that fixed supply money (combined with legal tender) is effectively a monopoly just like land. When you increase the supply or lower interest rates into negative territory it boosts the profits of other monopolies like land. You now get a debt cycle followed by a land cycle since money and land (rented for shelter) are needed to survive in society. The answer is obviously a tax on land values.
Many times the reason we are jealous is not because of other people luck but rather because we don't live up to our full potential. Try to focus on things you can control and to improve yourself, put on some muscle, dress nicely, do some cheap activities you enjoy, whether it is some specific hobby or if you don't have one do stuff anyways just for the sake of increasing your social interactions.
Those things will improve your situation regarding all the things you don't have to buy, like attracting the opposite sex or having fun experiences. By doing all those things you will also increase your "luck surface", you will hear about opportunities earlier, you will be more energetic and pro active and eventually something will fall into your lap. Even if not, you will enjoy your life and will not care so much about other people success on the financial front.
Those things will improve your situation regarding all the things you don't have to buy, like attracting the opposite sex or having fun experiences. By doing all those things you will also increase your "luck surface", you will hear about opportunities earlier, you will be more energetic and pro active and eventually something will fall into your lap. Even if not, you will enjoy your life and will not care so much about other people success on the financial front.
I am discouraged, and that's ok. There are plenty of people who are worse off.
There's a Japanese mindset/idea that the best you should hope for for your children is for them to be average. This is statistically sound and reduces the hurt that one would feel when their child is not above average as well as provides more joy if they do happen to exceed expectations.
There's a Japanese mindset/idea that the best you should hope for for your children is for them to be average. This is statistically sound and reduces the hurt that one would feel when their child is not above average as well as provides more joy if they do happen to exceed expectations.
Aquire something Money can’t buy, like a skill. Then take solace in the thought that money can (did) lose all its value over night, while the skill you acquired remains.
Also think about that it’s easier to find true friendship when you have little more to offer than yourself.
Basically stop glorifying material wealth. I know, easier said than done :)
Also think about that it’s easier to find true friendship when you have little more to offer than yourself.
Basically stop glorifying material wealth. I know, easier said than done :)
The vast majority of people's wealth consists of their own body and mind. People always say how inflation hits the poor but if they spend all their money and switch jobs frequently to get raises with inflation it is basically neutral to them because all their wealth is stored in their body and mind.
The real problem is that during inflation and negative interest rates monopolies like land become stronger and can take a bigger chunk of your income.
The real problem is that during inflation and negative interest rates monopolies like land become stronger and can take a bigger chunk of your income.
I'm not sure what you mean by calling land a monopoly. Do you mean "because land is a limited resource". Please explain.
FOMO. This is what causes bubbles. Of course it isn't any consolation that people can keep getting rich off of overpriced assets for a long time. As the saying goes, "The stock market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent." In this case however, you aren't going insolvent, just suffering jealousy.
I'm not saying to jump in - the crash my come tomorrow. Or I'm not saying don't jump in - the asset prices may melt up with inflation and people who were out are left poorer. There are risks either way.
This doesn't apply to the high paying jobs I think. There you just have to decide what you really want and be happy with what you can get. As many other comments say, money doesn't equal happiness.
I'm not saying to jump in - the crash my come tomorrow. Or I'm not saying don't jump in - the asset prices may melt up with inflation and people who were out are left poorer. There are risks either way.
This doesn't apply to the high paying jobs I think. There you just have to decide what you really want and be happy with what you can get. As many other comments say, money doesn't equal happiness.
I'm not sure what exactly you mean by FOMO but the problem with bubbles is that the return on capital exceeds the return on work so people simply stop working. It is highly problematic with money and land because those are basically what the entire economy is built on. You can't run away from them which is what makes the cycles so devastating.
FOMO = fear of missing out
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For every transaction, there is typically a winner and a loser. The winners brag, and the losers keep quiet.
In sales, you're looking for a (perceived) win-win situation. In that situation, both sides get to brag about their good deal. One of them perhaps later regrets their decision, but they won't send a press release about that.
And so we hear two positive stories, and no negative.
And so we hear two positive stories, and no negative.
Often it is actual win-win:
- Customer pays me, I solve their problem.
Sometimes it is a bit more nuanced:
- We sell the customer a better solution, they get a better (and less expensive) solution, but their previous supplier end up losing business.
I can live happily with both these scenarios.
- Customer pays me, I solve their problem.
Sometimes it is a bit more nuanced:
- We sell the customer a better solution, they get a better (and less expensive) solution, but their previous supplier end up losing business.
I can live happily with both these scenarios.
> For every transaction, there is typically a winner and a loser.
This is certainly not true. Most of the transactions I engage in don't have a winner and a loser. Those that do tend to be transactions that I consider "bad", regardless of whether I'm the winner or the loser.
This is certainly not true. Most of the transactions I engage in don't have a winner and a loser. Those that do tend to be transactions that I consider "bad", regardless of whether I'm the winner or the loser.
It seems like _it looks like_ everyone is getting rich.
Meanwhile, access to credit is easier than ever before, in so many forms, and the Internet has made it easier to "flex on plebs" in seconds.
Dump social media would be my takeaway. Shit's unhealthy
Meanwhile, access to credit is easier than ever before, in so many forms, and the Internet has made it easier to "flex on plebs" in seconds.
Dump social media would be my takeaway. Shit's unhealthy
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I had the dot com boom pass me by, saw many become rich, while I worked on ATG Dynamo based e-Commerce sites. I had the Web 2.0 boom pass me by, I remained a cog in the wheel, again saw many folks get ahead.
Was it distracting or mildly discouraging? Sure.
I finally jumped onto the touchscreen and app boom, lost a lot of time and money, but sharpened my development skills.
I have seen multiple booms where closed-networks of folks and insiders make huge money leaving the vast majority out.
I do my thing based on my capabilities and networking skills. Sucks to be an introvert on the autism spectrum. I have learnt to not be impressed by the highlight-reel of folks that is heavily curated. If you dig deep, you will learn the insider stories of the superficially happy-family folks and the ones with the latest cars.
Each of us have our own miseries, even the ones with money. Especially the ones with boat-loads of money.
Was it distracting or mildly discouraging? Sure.
I finally jumped onto the touchscreen and app boom, lost a lot of time and money, but sharpened my development skills.
I have seen multiple booms where closed-networks of folks and insiders make huge money leaving the vast majority out.
I do my thing based on my capabilities and networking skills. Sucks to be an introvert on the autism spectrum. I have learnt to not be impressed by the highlight-reel of folks that is heavily curated. If you dig deep, you will learn the insider stories of the superficially happy-family folks and the ones with the latest cars.
Each of us have our own miseries, even the ones with money. Especially the ones with boat-loads of money.
Get off social media.
It is pretty difficult to peruse HN at times because peoples success stories feel completely unattainable to me.
Life has been hard so far.
Life has been hard so far.
I find it much more enjoyable to be great at many things, have some financial stability due to having an average job in tech than making millions by being C-level on a trashy company like Facebook but unable to do any sort of physical activity and enjoying very little of what nature has to offer, just seeking as much comfort as you can, you can look for adventure. Adventure is just everywhere and is generally free or cheap. It will make you stronger and little by little will make you less worried about those rich people and rather appreciate how life managed to shift you to the most wonderful road one could be, of self-discovery, of finding a bigger truth, of empathy.
I climb, I skate and so on. I read philosophy, I have time to invest on myself on things which won't generate capital for me and I find it very amusing that even with that, I can still have a huge degree of financial freedom, as long as I work 8h a day 5 times a week and a small, but growing investment portifolio.
If you would work at a FAANG, or even be a C-level there or at a startup, there is no way you could be climbing and enjoying things on your 20s or 30s. By the time you would "make it very big", you would already be too old for this kind of things, not really health or body-wise, but you would be too attached to comfort. If you are more adventurous, you would actually look for opportunities that you could sleep on the floor, have some food deprivation and a hard adventure to test your limits. It's much more exciting than going to the office, doing politics and all. We aren't made to work in such artificial environments and that is why you and a lot of people are sad.
For me personally, I enjoy going to work, could be a few less hours and I would be happy with it. Even studying coding is nice. But I also need to go to nature, hug trees, climb mountains, hurt my foot and body whist doing it, accepting the discomfort of life as it is, in order to appreciate it. I would kill myself if all I had to do was to work, take care of kids and have expensive and comfortable travels. The best things in life are free or cheap. A kiss. A laugh. A new route.
Recently with my wife we've decided for ourselves that we don't need a kid and would rather enjoy life. There is a grind in having kids and at least 9 out of 10 friends I have that went this route are unhappy. Why have kids if I am already enjoying my journey?
Therefore, I can't be discouraged or distracted because people are doing so much better as you say, because this isn't better for me. If all you do is work and you aren't making as much as them, I feel sorry for you, maybe you are more like me, a monkey-man, that goes to the office and after work goes climbing. Or do anything else. If to be homo sapiens means to accumulate capital and shoot rockets to space, I don't belong there.
I climb, I skate and so on. I read philosophy, I have time to invest on myself on things which won't generate capital for me and I find it very amusing that even with that, I can still have a huge degree of financial freedom, as long as I work 8h a day 5 times a week and a small, but growing investment portifolio.
If you would work at a FAANG, or even be a C-level there or at a startup, there is no way you could be climbing and enjoying things on your 20s or 30s. By the time you would "make it very big", you would already be too old for this kind of things, not really health or body-wise, but you would be too attached to comfort. If you are more adventurous, you would actually look for opportunities that you could sleep on the floor, have some food deprivation and a hard adventure to test your limits. It's much more exciting than going to the office, doing politics and all. We aren't made to work in such artificial environments and that is why you and a lot of people are sad.
For me personally, I enjoy going to work, could be a few less hours and I would be happy with it. Even studying coding is nice. But I also need to go to nature, hug trees, climb mountains, hurt my foot and body whist doing it, accepting the discomfort of life as it is, in order to appreciate it. I would kill myself if all I had to do was to work, take care of kids and have expensive and comfortable travels. The best things in life are free or cheap. A kiss. A laugh. A new route.
Recently with my wife we've decided for ourselves that we don't need a kid and would rather enjoy life. There is a grind in having kids and at least 9 out of 10 friends I have that went this route are unhappy. Why have kids if I am already enjoying my journey?
Therefore, I can't be discouraged or distracted because people are doing so much better as you say, because this isn't better for me. If all you do is work and you aren't making as much as them, I feel sorry for you, maybe you are more like me, a monkey-man, that goes to the office and after work goes climbing. Or do anything else. If to be homo sapiens means to accumulate capital and shoot rockets to space, I don't belong there.
You become rich too?
It is not that difficult nowadays, if you are above average intellectually, to make a very comfortable life. If most of the examples are doing it by fair opportunities and/or hard work, why can't you too? You can feel discouraged or encouraged by the opportunities.
> How do you prevent becoming discouraged or distracted when there seems like so many opportunities calling and so many people doing better
Because the perception is not the reality. There is no great gravy train that you're missing out on. Yes, there are real opportunities for certain -- but there are always real opportunities. There's nothing special about today on that count.
Also, I'd point out the old adage: Comparing yourself to others will make you both vain and bitter, because there will always be someone doing worse than you, and always someone doing better.
But, to actually answer your question: I don't become discouraged or distracted because it's not my goal to "get rich". I have other goals, instead.
Because the perception is not the reality. There is no great gravy train that you're missing out on. Yes, there are real opportunities for certain -- but there are always real opportunities. There's nothing special about today on that count.
Also, I'd point out the old adage: Comparing yourself to others will make you both vain and bitter, because there will always be someone doing worse than you, and always someone doing better.
But, to actually answer your question: I don't become discouraged or distracted because it's not my goal to "get rich". I have other goals, instead.
Many people are telling you that these are all fake show offs, but here are the facts:
1. We had one of the longest bull runs in stock market history. Even a modest investment in something like Facebook at it’s initial price of $15 dollars around 2009 would have netted you hundreds of thousands by now.
2. The pandemic dip was an insane buying opportunity. If you just parked some money in the SPY around the lockdowns you would have doubled your money (I’m talking in just one year, not 10 years).
3. Tech industry just exploded, the whole world relies on it. The jobs and opportunities just amassed.
4. The financial collapse pretty much made it so anyone and their mother could get a home mortgage loan with literally no interest.
So yeah, it did really happen for a lot of people. If anything, what you are witnessing now could be the tail end.
But, to remain optimistic, if we look at things purely based on eye balling numbers, the world population that is not totally connected into the Internet, and have not even begun American-level consumerism is still a pretty high number. We haven’t actually gotten everyone to buy apps, and sit around and watch Netflix. Just based on that fact alone you can somewhat infer that there’s way more growth ahead.
1. We had one of the longest bull runs in stock market history. Even a modest investment in something like Facebook at it’s initial price of $15 dollars around 2009 would have netted you hundreds of thousands by now.
2. The pandemic dip was an insane buying opportunity. If you just parked some money in the SPY around the lockdowns you would have doubled your money (I’m talking in just one year, not 10 years).
3. Tech industry just exploded, the whole world relies on it. The jobs and opportunities just amassed.
4. The financial collapse pretty much made it so anyone and their mother could get a home mortgage loan with literally no interest.
So yeah, it did really happen for a lot of people. If anything, what you are witnessing now could be the tail end.
But, to remain optimistic, if we look at things purely based on eye balling numbers, the world population that is not totally connected into the Internet, and have not even begun American-level consumerism is still a pretty high number. We haven’t actually gotten everyone to buy apps, and sit around and watch Netflix. Just based on that fact alone you can somewhat infer that there’s way more growth ahead.
A lot of people talking about getting rich is not equivalent to everyone actually getting rich.
Bear in mind the avg westerner is super-rich compared to most of global pop'n and most of history. You're just observing people that are even more obscenely rich. Are they happy? Would you be happier if you had what they had? ;). There's the well-known graph where happiness rises steeply as one's wealth raises to cover the basics of life, then flatlines after that. In my experience , people with more money are often less happy, more stressed, and ironically seem to have more money worries.
> It seems ...
That's the problem right there.
People like to advertise their gains, but never their losses.
That's the problem right there.
People like to advertise their gains, but never their losses.
How do you prevent becoming discouraged or distracted when there seems like so many opportunities calling and so many people doing better