The Fugate family of Kentucky has had blue skin for centuries (2017)(allthatsinteresting.com)
allthatsinteresting.com
The Fugate family of Kentucky has had blue skin for centuries (2017)
https://allthatsinteresting.com/fugate-family-blue-people-of-kentucky
90 comments
I went to college in Kentucky with two of the Fugates, twins in fact. Sorry to report, neither were blue in color.
Makes sense, seems like in the 1960s they came up with a solution for removing the blue color, so most likely if they have the recessive gene, they are taking those pills.
> Using research collected from studies of isolated Alaskan Eskimo populations, Cawein was able to conclude that the Fugates carried a rare hereditary blood disorder that causes excessive levels of methemoglobin in their blood.
> Cawein devised a cure for this disorder: more blue. Counterintuitively, the best chemical for activating the body’s process of turning methemoglobin to hemoglobin is methylene blue dye. The Fugates he treated ingested this dye and within a few minutes, the blue coloration of their skin disappeared, and their skin turned pink.
> As long as they kept ingesting pills of the substance regularly, these blue people of Kentucky could live their lives normally.
> Using research collected from studies of isolated Alaskan Eskimo populations, Cawein was able to conclude that the Fugates carried a rare hereditary blood disorder that causes excessive levels of methemoglobin in their blood.
> Cawein devised a cure for this disorder: more blue. Counterintuitively, the best chemical for activating the body’s process of turning methemoglobin to hemoglobin is methylene blue dye. The Fugates he treated ingested this dye and within a few minutes, the blue coloration of their skin disappeared, and their skin turned pink.
> As long as they kept ingesting pills of the substance regularly, these blue people of Kentucky could live their lives normally.
Very well could be. I'd never heard of it at the time I knew them, so didn't know to look or even ask.
I can't confirm they are direct lineage or anything, though. I only know they were Fugate from eastern KY. It's not a particularly common name, nor is eastern KY particularly well populated so figure they are related in some manner.
I can't confirm they are direct lineage or anything, though. I only know they were Fugate from eastern KY. It's not a particularly common name, nor is eastern KY particularly well populated so figure they are related in some manner.
[deleted]
Same. In fact the obvious question in the absence of photographs is how blue they really were.
That's argyria from taking colloidal silver.
Methemoglobinemia looks far less severe: https://blogs.brown.edu/emergency-medicine-residency/citw-14...
Methemoglobinemia looks far less severe: https://blogs.brown.edu/emergency-medicine-residency/citw-14...
If you Google the last name you’ll find some pictures
I think those are black and white with false colour
search for methemoglobinemia
They do, toward the end of the article.
He does not look blue.
He doesn't look too blue at all, that is true. They say that most of the color faded as he got older. If you look closely you can see a tinge of blue on his face.
This article touches on something that remains very true today: if you want to study genetic disorders you look at closely-related populations. If the condition you want to study is linked to a recessive gene, you want to find (or create) an isolated population with that gene.
In animals/plants this is why inbreeding can serve a useful function. If you want to detect a recessive gene, but either don't have access to genetic testing or are not sure which gene is involved, you in-breed until you see individuals who express the recessive gene. These individuals inherited the recessive gene from both parents. You then know which parental lines carry the gene, which lets you select for or against it.
In animals/plants this is why inbreeding can serve a useful function. If you want to detect a recessive gene, but either don't have access to genetic testing or are not sure which gene is involved, you in-breed until you see individuals who express the recessive gene. These individuals inherited the recessive gene from both parents. You then know which parental lines carry the gene, which lets you select for or against it.
Look no further than European Royalty, for example Charles II of Spain's family tree ... er, family square, rather.
My country of origin, Faroe Islands, has worked on this precisely because the population is small and very closely related. So there's a lot of recessive genes being expressed. Also, they've kept meticulous population records for centuries, so traits can be accurately traced back through several generations. I just looked up my own records in the national registry and traced one of my branches back to a named person born in the year 1170.
Info: https://www.fargen.fo/en/research/genealogy-registry/
Info: https://www.fargen.fo/en/research/genealogy-registry/
> inbreeding can serve a useful function
Are there any examples of species doing this 'deliberately'?
Are there any examples of species doing this 'deliberately'?
Many, many species of plants are inbreeders. In the plant world, inbreeding and outbreeding seem to both be successful techniques with their own benefits and drawbacks.
If I remember correctly, certain types fruit flies prefer inbreeding.
Royal consanguinity marriages in old Europe. And many other places as well. Sibling marriages in Egypt and the Diadochi!
Ancient Ireland, too: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2246227-stone-age-rulin...
Have you heard about the Fugate family from Kentucky?
Inbreeding gets a bad reputation in humans because we have poor genetic diversity and endless recessive diseases due to going through at least two near-extinction events (population bottlenecks) that took us down to 2000 and 55000 humans.
https://gizmodo.com/extinction-events-that-almost-wiped-out-...
Many animals can inbreed with much less downside.
There are lab mice that are entirely homozygous (inbred until every gene they have is identical). They're not quite as prolific as normal mice, but they survive.
Many animals can inbreed with much less downside.
There are lab mice that are entirely homozygous (inbred until every gene they have is identical). They're not quite as prolific as normal mice, but they survive.
The discovery of the treatment in the methylene blue dye is quite fascinating. How exactly did someone figure that out for such a rare condition? And imagine being deep blue all your life and everyone knowing you as blue, then you take this blue pill and bam, you're pink as can be. Must have seemed like practical magic.
Methylene blue was widely used in malaria treatment, and after its relative safety was figured out, ease of access meant doctors went nuts trying it out on all sorts of conditions. And it worked as a treatment for all sorts of things, and was issued to soldiers in the field through wwii. It's a MAOI and shows up in nootropic stacks and discussions all the time.
Makes you pee blue, can treat effects of carbon monoxide poisoning, etc. There were lots of opportunities for someone with blue skin to have encountered the stuff.
Makes you pee blue, can treat effects of carbon monoxide poisoning, etc. There were lots of opportunities for someone with blue skin to have encountered the stuff.
Methylene blue has a fascinating history in medicine. It was already well known as a treatment for methemoglobinemia however. It's a ready electron acceptor. It's used for a few other conditions today, without a lot of evidence.
Yves Klein used Methylene blue in the drinks at one of his shows to great effect...
https://socks-studio.com/2019/11/23/iris-clert-yves-klein-th...
The general condition of methemoglobinemia isn't as rare as this family's particular genetic condition, so the methylene blue treatment was already known. I'm not sure when they first discovered that methylene blue can treat methemoglobinemia - methylene blue was discovered in 1876, but it does all sorts of things.
It's a known cure for Methemoglobinemia: https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/000562.htm
> And imagine being deep blue all your life and everyone knowing you as blue, then you take this blue pill and bam, you're pink as can be. Must have seemed like practical magic.
Almost sounds like homeopathy, without the dilution, that actually works.
Almost sounds like homeopathy, without the dilution, that actually works.
Not really. This isn't like cures like. This is triggering a biological system to do something. There is a buildup of a substance that he body could break down but doesn't. So you do something to trigger the system into action. This is more like hydrating someone in order to trigger their kidneys to work harder and thereby flush out some other toxin.
So, not homeopathy?
I get their point, homeopathy has two bs gimmicks. The first is to use a substance that causes the ailment as a cure, the second is to replace that substance with water/sugar and the idea of the substance.
Using a blue substance to cure someone who's blue is similar to the first gimmick, but here they actually use the substance and medically tested it.
Using a blue substance to cure someone who's blue is similar to the first gimmick, but here they actually use the substance and medically tested it.
It has three gimmicks, the first is to never look at causes, only at symptoms.
Then use a substance that causes the same symptom (usually not the ailment, only one of the symptoms), and then dilute it away.
So it scores 2 out of 3. But the dilution part is important :)
Then use a substance that causes the same symptom (usually not the ailment, only one of the symptoms), and then dilute it away.
So it scores 2 out of 3. But the dilution part is important :)
For the sake of clarity: I will not stand on the side of homeopathy, ever. It's placebo effect marketing rather than evidence-based science and hence not worth my money.
I didn't think you did, but valid things can share traits with bullshit and still be valid things.
This is correct and too often ignored. Bullshit owns nothing:)
What about when placebo-based medicine offers better patient outcomes, for certain disorders? E.g., for sleep medicine without side effects? We used homeopathy for my daughters car sickness and it worked great.
Did you know stretching before a car trip prevents all but the worst car sickness? Both my chiropractor and my acupuncturist recommended it and I haven't suffered from car sickness since.
There, I saved you the cost of the water pills. You don't need costly, potentially dangerous additive laced medicine if you're just looking for the placebo effect.
There, I saved you the cost of the water pills. You don't need costly, potentially dangerous additive laced medicine if you're just looking for the placebo effect.
Yeah, but she feels sick in the car. Then we give her a pill. There is nothing dangerous in homeopathy, that’s the dilution effect.
Another thread trending on the value of placebo: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28887705
Another thread trending on the value of placebo: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28887705
>There is nothing dangerous in homeopathy
Some of the pills are made using toxic fillers. It's not enough I'd panic over, you can get the placebo effect without ingesting anything shady/expensive.
Some of the pills are made using toxic fillers. It's not enough I'd panic over, you can get the placebo effect without ingesting anything shady/expensive.
Do you have a source for homeopathy being made from toxic filers?
I’d hypothesize that the more expensive the pill, the better the effect.
I’d hypothesize that the more expensive the pill, the better the effect.
I can't find specifics about homeopathic fillers, but any pill not regulated by the FDA is likely to use cheap fillers that are often toxic. Vitamins are where you commonly hear about this, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_food_and_dietary...
I did find this, https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/10/fda-homeopathic-teet... which shows there is some risk, though again you're most likely fine.
>I’d hypothesize that the more expensive the pill, the better the effect.
For you, sure. For your daughter, I bet your confident recommendation is the most important aspect.
I did find this, https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/10/fda-homeopathic-teet... which shows there is some risk, though again you're most likely fine.
>I’d hypothesize that the more expensive the pill, the better the effect.
For you, sure. For your daughter, I bet your confident recommendation is the most important aspect.
Placebo is very powerful and is actually validated by scientific research.
So when the conditions are here, as they seemingly were for your daughters, it's great.
Yet, homeopathy, when considered as a potent product, didn't help, because it is not potent. The conditions enabling the placebo effect did. And no one would complain about that :)
The problem arises when homeopathy is sold and marketed as potent _per se_.
So when the conditions are here, as they seemingly were for your daughters, it's great.
Yet, homeopathy, when considered as a potent product, didn't help, because it is not potent. The conditions enabling the placebo effect did. And no one would complain about that :)
The problem arises when homeopathy is sold and marketed as potent _per se_.
Maybe the old term for European aristocrat, blue blood, along with its inbreeding connotations, is more literal than history gives it credence. It's usually attributed to pale skin but perhaps methemoglobinemia was on display.
https://www.historyextra.com/period/georgian/why-people-nobl...
https://www.historyextra.com/period/georgian/why-people-nobl...
If people had been quite literally blue, it would have been widely written about. You're talking about an era giving people nicknames based on their countenance and using any slight deformity for propaganda was quite common.
Some oxiditation (1%) of Hb (Fe 2+) to metHb (Fe 3+) is normal, it gets reduced back by the enzyme Cytochrome b5 reductase. So far so good.
But since metHb is dysfunctional and cannot bind oxygen and you need levels of at least 10% metHb to be visible as cyanosis: Why didn't they exhibit oxygen-deficit related symptoms?
Or can your body compensate with other mechanism if it's congenital? At least when it is visibly induced you most certainly will also suffer from symptoms like shortness of breath etc.
But since metHb is dysfunctional and cannot bind oxygen and you need levels of at least 10% metHb to be visible as cyanosis: Why didn't they exhibit oxygen-deficit related symptoms?
Or can your body compensate with other mechanism if it's congenital? At least when it is visibly induced you most certainly will also suffer from symptoms like shortness of breath etc.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methemoglobinemia
It would seem you are correct but these effects weren't touched on by the article.
It would seem you are correct but these effects weren't touched on by the article.
Comically, the author used a stock image to explain how recessive genes work, where the unaffected individual is blue, and the affected is red. It serves more to confuse than explain.
Now I wonder if the blue skined gods of hinduism are based on real people
That’s from Datura metel
One past thread:
The Fugate family of Kentucky has had blue skin for centuries - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21096062 - Sept 2019 (86 comments)
The Fugate family of Kentucky has had blue skin for centuries - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21096062 - Sept 2019 (86 comments)
As others have already mentioned, in addition to the genetic cause of blue skin it can also be caused by an ingestion of silver.
There are several well-publicized cases, all of which were self-inflicted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argyria
There are several well-publicized cases, all of which were self-inflicted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argyria
The patho is different. Fugates’ skin was due to methemoglobin. Argyria is the result of the accumulation of silver nanoparticles in body tissues. Argyria is not reversible.
I would imagine the actual hue of the blueness would be different.
I would imagine the actual hue of the blueness would be different.
Not to be insensitive, but it would have been interesting if they had a member of the family play an Andorian in Star Trek. Think about it.
It's more of a gray-ish blue, not bright blue like those characters.
Or Kree in MCU!
They don't have a family tree... They have a family ladder. Wow.
Other than the one person marrying their aunt, the closest connection I can see is a second cousin marrying, something I believe is legal, healthy, and very common in that period. I'd bet portions of your family tree from two hundred years ago would look similar.
That tree's focused on only one person, Ben Stacy; his ancestors. The entire tree sounds a lot more connected:
> However, by the early 1960s, some members of the Fugate clan had begun to resent their cobalt-tinted skin. Not only did their skin mark them as different, but by that time, people had already begun to associate their skin color with the family’s history of inbreeding.
> However, by the early 1960s, some members of the Fugate clan had begun to resent their cobalt-tinted skin. Not only did their skin mark them as different, but by that time, people had already begun to associate their skin color with the family’s history of inbreeding.
I think if any of us had a visual cue showing our familial ties people would also say we had a family history of inbreeding.
It’s called pedigree collapse. Your family tree grows exponentially to the second power with each generation. So a mere 50 generations ago, which is to say roughly 1000-1500 years ago, you had 1,125,899,906,842,624 slots in your family tree. Needless to say the vast majority of those slots don't have a unique person in them.
Family directed acyclic graph.
Hi exDM69, you posted in April about a proto (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22977095) that you might share. I am interested on how you did: "cache (sizeof(node) == cache line), no recursion, no memory allocation, no unbounded loops, no system calls, etc."
Can you share please github name: lazalong
[deleted]
Anyone have better photos, maybe from the 70s onward?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methemoglobinemia
Maybe that particular family had it much worse but I don't think I'd ever see someone with it and think "they're blue." Though if it's like poor circulation, it'd looks a bit more blue in person.
Maybe that particular family had it much worse but I don't think I'd ever see someone with it and think "they're blue." Though if it's like poor circulation, it'd looks a bit more blue in person.
There's some photos of Paul Karason on Google Images, who developed the same condition from silver poisoning.
He turned blue from silver poisoning, he did not develop methemoglobinemia from it.
Silver nitrate is a known cause of acquired methemoglobinemia.
https://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and-treatments/argyria-o....
Different conditions. What happens with colloidal silver is the buildup of silver oxides in tissues, permanently staining them blue.
Different conditions. What happens with colloidal silver is the buildup of silver oxides in tissues, permanently staining them blue.
Some people get blue skin after exposure to colloidal silver.
These people would be naturals in any star trek show. Finally a cheap way to cast more Andorians.
The true "Indigo Children". Sorry to resurrect that early 2000's meme.
Blue fugate(s) would be a cool name for a band
[deleted]
Therefore, close relatives to marry is a human breeding taboo, will greatly increase the probability of genetic diseases in infants
Cool so can we edit our genes to express our inner smurf?
You don't need gene editing, a bit of Nitrobenzene will do: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33510533/
Note: do not do this!
Note: do not do this!
I wish they had included at least one photograph of this.