Ask: I need a feedback about my job offer/description
18 comments
(Disclaimer: I do interviewing for senior software engineer candidates at Uber)
I'm gonna be blunt. Your pitch reads like a fresh-out-of-school student CV; all the stuff about soft skills and team growth can be omitted, a lot of it is frankly kinda corny. My recommendation is to read other job descriptions or look at how LinkedIn recruiters cold call. Generally speaking, be brief but clear about what the role is in terms of concrete business value (e.g. "you'll be working on product X"), don't get into too many minutiae. Say upfront what the role title actually is (it appears to be "frontend developer").
Also: what you write there doesn't matter nearly as much as where it's posted (other than having machine-readable keywords for search indexing). You didn't mention what your budget is, but generally the two main approaches are to either go for quantity (i.e. post on monster/indeed/etc) or go for curation (work w/ a recruiting firm). Just posting it on your website won't do anything.
It doesn't sound like you have much in terms of differentiators as an employer, and the position doesn't seem all that senior, so my recommendation would be to go for quantity and be prepared to do a lot of sifting. Alternatively, settle for "less" and be prepared to invest in up-leveling your hire. In reality, at the lower end, a lot of candidates that would otherwise be acceptable fits get intimidated by years of experience requirements.
I'm gonna be blunt. Your pitch reads like a fresh-out-of-school student CV; all the stuff about soft skills and team growth can be omitted, a lot of it is frankly kinda corny. My recommendation is to read other job descriptions or look at how LinkedIn recruiters cold call. Generally speaking, be brief but clear about what the role is in terms of concrete business value (e.g. "you'll be working on product X"), don't get into too many minutiae. Say upfront what the role title actually is (it appears to be "frontend developer").
Also: what you write there doesn't matter nearly as much as where it's posted (other than having machine-readable keywords for search indexing). You didn't mention what your budget is, but generally the two main approaches are to either go for quantity (i.e. post on monster/indeed/etc) or go for curation (work w/ a recruiting firm). Just posting it on your website won't do anything.
It doesn't sound like you have much in terms of differentiators as an employer, and the position doesn't seem all that senior, so my recommendation would be to go for quantity and be prepared to do a lot of sifting. Alternatively, settle for "less" and be prepared to invest in up-leveling your hire. In reality, at the lower end, a lot of candidates that would otherwise be acceptable fits get intimidated by years of experience requirements.
I don’t see anything dishonest about the post, they say clearly ‘2+ years of experience with React projects’, that’s about as entry level as it gets.
Here's my quick first read:
"self organizing teams" + "every stage of the project" + "split work" + "leadership" --> "We have no idea how to run a software company. We don't have PMs, managers, or tech leads. We're hoping we can throw a bunch of smart people in a (virtual) room together and it will somehow just work."
My overall impression here is that you have no company and you are trying to hire your first employees, because obviously if you had a company with more than 5 employees this would be a disaster. That's not a great first impression. If it's somehow not a disaster, you need to really explain why this way of working is unique and superior, and then sell me on the value of that experience.
"self organizing teams" + "every stage of the project" + "split work" + "leadership" --> "We have no idea how to run a software company. We don't have PMs, managers, or tech leads. We're hoping we can throw a bunch of smart people in a (virtual) room together and it will somehow just work."
My overall impression here is that you have no company and you are trying to hire your first employees, because obviously if you had a company with more than 5 employees this would be a disaster. That's not a great first impression. If it's somehow not a disaster, you need to really explain why this way of working is unique and superior, and then sell me on the value of that experience.
not a dev, but this was my reaction too — "Oh, so nobody's in charge? fuuuuucccckkkkk that"
I'm probably mid level in my field, I don't bother applying to jobs without salary ranges. I have too many people to interview with so I throw any potential low ballers out of the process early. Lot's of employers are "hiring" but trying to wait out what they see as temporary inflation and in my position talking to them is a waste of time.
Yup, this is a hard requirement for me. When someone says they pay competitively or market rate, it's usually low. When someone pays well and doesn't give numbers, it means they're stupid (to pay well and not pitch it) or they're underpaying someone quietly, which is a red flag.
The processes are usually too long to go through without a given number.
The processes are usually too long to go through without a given number.
Some context from the hiring side: not all employers can afford to pay top dollar for mid-senior level candidates, so the business proposition in those cases tend to be geared towards growth (i.e. either "grow the company and the employee together" or "I'll just gain some experience with this employer and job hop when my resume looks more solid"). This is more common on the lower end, which appears to be the case for this job description.
For more senior level, I agree. Senior level candidates have a lot of leverage and it's generally a bad idea for an employer to be a sneaky lowballer. Interviewees talk and job interview reputation can be a dealbreaker for many potential candidates before the process even starts for them.
For more senior level, I agree. Senior level candidates have a lot of leverage and it's generally a bad idea for an employer to be a sneaky lowballer. Interviewees talk and job interview reputation can be a dealbreaker for many potential candidates before the process even starts for them.
When I look at a post, I want to know:
1. What the company does. Do they even know? Is it something I wouldn't do (e.g gambling)? Is it something I really want to do?
2. Is it better than where I am? Compensation, benefits, things like remote work.
3. What do you want and expect from me that others may not qualify? "React Native" is helpful. "Git" is not.
4. Does the company know what they're doing? I want to follow a leader who can lead. Would you speak the same way to an investor? Verbosity usually means you don't really understand what you're saying. Try to cut down a paragraph to a sentence or consider omitting.
1. What the company does. Do they even know? Is it something I wouldn't do (e.g gambling)? Is it something I really want to do?
2. Is it better than where I am? Compensation, benefits, things like remote work.
3. What do you want and expect from me that others may not qualify? "React Native" is helpful. "Git" is not.
4. Does the company know what they're doing? I want to follow a leader who can lead. Would you speak the same way to an investor? Verbosity usually means you don't really understand what you're saying. Try to cut down a paragraph to a sentence or consider omitting.
This is twice as long as it should be. Omit needless words.
For example "genuinely value" -> "value"; "In the daily work, you will find that we are not very different from other organizations." -> ""
For example "genuinely value" -> "value"; "In the daily work, you will find that we are not very different from other organizations." -> ""
My thoughts:
1. Why do I want to work for you based on this mail? You are telling me you are like every other company... literally!
2. Many of the things you list are very... wishy washy. You are using weak words. If I put those words on my resume, you'd pass them over.
3. Red flags:
3.1 I expect your company to have too many meetings. The fact that you even MENTION meetings with a positive tone is a red light, for some coders.
3.2 Much of what you mention I assume is true at most companies. What company would an employee NOT be able to give feedback to improve process at? Well.. no place people will stay long.
Final thoughts:
You are making a sales pitch. You are trying to sell me on wasting ~5 hours of my life on your company, possibly deal with rejection, etc. Why should I bother...
Your mail doesn't answer the question.
Answers: $$$! Good pay is an answer. Awesome benefits, STRONG culture, great name to put on my resume, good founders to convince me you'll have a great exit. These things matter! Remember, engineers work for a living, we may love what we do... but we'll listen to someone else's problems for money too.
Another thought: Lower the bar to reply. Unless it is a GREAT opportunity, why am I going to go beyond the site I'm using for a job search? Why am I going to cover letter, github, etc... for a generic job, that I'll get 10 of in the next week in my inbox, who will all be less picky, and less of a pain.
But I encourage you to look at it as sales. Sell me! Make me WANT to buy into YOUR company and YOUR product for what makes it great!
1. Why do I want to work for you based on this mail? You are telling me you are like every other company... literally!
2. Many of the things you list are very... wishy washy. You are using weak words. If I put those words on my resume, you'd pass them over.
3. Red flags:
3.1 I expect your company to have too many meetings. The fact that you even MENTION meetings with a positive tone is a red light, for some coders.
3.2 Much of what you mention I assume is true at most companies. What company would an employee NOT be able to give feedback to improve process at? Well.. no place people will stay long.
Final thoughts:
You are making a sales pitch. You are trying to sell me on wasting ~5 hours of my life on your company, possibly deal with rejection, etc. Why should I bother...
Your mail doesn't answer the question.
Answers: $$$! Good pay is an answer. Awesome benefits, STRONG culture, great name to put on my resume, good founders to convince me you'll have a great exit. These things matter! Remember, engineers work for a living, we may love what we do... but we'll listen to someone else's problems for money too.
Another thought: Lower the bar to reply. Unless it is a GREAT opportunity, why am I going to go beyond the site I'm using for a job search? Why am I going to cover letter, github, etc... for a generic job, that I'll get 10 of in the next week in my inbox, who will all be less picky, and less of a pain.
But I encourage you to look at it as sales. Sell me! Make me WANT to buy into YOUR company and YOUR product for what makes it great!
Since I am job-seeking myself currently, I have looked at a few offers during last weeks.
I'm not sure if you just didn't add it to the text, but is there no title for the job offer? Something like "React dev (m/w/d), mostly Frontend, Fullstack appreciated" (along these lines, can be done better surely).
Also while some parts look like good offers to some people, they may be intimidating to others. For example "take share of leader's responsibilities" - not everyone may like to do that. Now it can be that you don't want people who shy away from this, but if you don't care and it's entirely optional, then say it is optional.
Same for backend. I have seen a lot of offers that sound like pure Frontend, but during first interview it becomes obvious that it's actually full stack. So be clear if it's a fullstack position with focus on frontend, or a frontend position, preferably in the title already.
My 2cents:) Good luck with your applicants!
I'm not sure if you just didn't add it to the text, but is there no title for the job offer? Something like "React dev (m/w/d), mostly Frontend, Fullstack appreciated" (along these lines, can be done better surely).
Also while some parts look like good offers to some people, they may be intimidating to others. For example "take share of leader's responsibilities" - not everyone may like to do that. Now it can be that you don't want people who shy away from this, but if you don't care and it's entirely optional, then say it is optional.
Same for backend. I have seen a lot of offers that sound like pure Frontend, but during first interview it becomes obvious that it's actually full stack. So be clear if it's a fullstack position with focus on frontend, or a frontend position, preferably in the title already.
My 2cents:) Good luck with your applicants!
Thank you! Really good points! The job offer has a title like "React developer".
"take share of leader's responsibilities" - you are right about this. Actually, it's something what we highly appreciate, but as you said, it's rather optional and can be intimidating.
"take share of leader's responsibilities" - you are right about this. Actually, it's something what we highly appreciate, but as you said, it's rather optional and can be intimidating.
In addition to what others have said, there are many grammatical errors/oddities that make it clear this was not written by a native English speaker. That may or may not matter depending on your target audience, but if it does, I would get a native speaker to edit the whole thing.
Personally I think you should strike this "(...because failure is not an option! ;) )" it's a little offputting. I also think you should put a salary range. I get how it kind of reveals your hand but it also sets expectations.
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Thank you all! It's really helpful for me. It seems that I need to change a lot :D
if you can’t tell someone is good in the first interview… also, compensation is more important than all the rest.
I will be really happy to hear your general feeling after reading the offer and what are "positives" or "negatives" in your opinion. Thanks!
Job offer -------------------
Hey! I'm Frank, and I want you to help us with React projects!
Join to our self-organizing teams and participate at every stage of the project: from exploring the project's problem to delivering outstanding products. As a team member, you will share responsibilities with other teammates. Together, you will plan the solution and split the work within the team. Collectively, you will take care about the code, final outcome at every level and genuinely support each other. Each team has a leader who consolidates organizational activities like tracking the projected trajectory, communication with the client, and coordination of the team efforts... but we encourage everyone to commit at every level, including the leader's responsibilities.
Your skills, continuous improvement, willingness to face challenges, and thoughtful collaboration with respect and trust are what you bring to the table. This will make you a valuable part of the project team, and everyone will look forward to working with you! In COMPANY_NAME, we highly appreciate self-learners giving great attention to the details and final results and having a deep sense of responsibility.
We also genuinely value the efforts to extend domains, and we encourage everyone to migrate towards full-stack competencies. It gives a better understanding of the project, facilitates cooperation with other programmers, and makes you a more complete developer. Saying this, any additional experience with React Native, Blockchain, Ruby on Rails, AWS, and DevOps will be your great advantage!
At COMPANY, you may not only contribute at the project level. Each team follows the common standards and guidelines unifying how projects are built. By giving new suggestions, you can shape how you and all other teams work. This is another way how you can help us to deliver better results!
In the daily work, you will find that we are not very different from other organizations. We are using GitHub, Docker, Slack, and we do code reviews. Also, we make sure that everyone can enjoy the well-balanced environment with the right amount of meetings-and-teamwork time and time when you deeply focus on the programming.
We work on projects and with people from around the world... so good English communication skills are really needed in this job.
Apply now to become a part of COMPANY where you'll work as a team, tackle challenges as a team, succeed as a team and fail as a team (...because failure is not an option! ;) )
We'll also highly appreciate anything more than a CV. You can provide showcases of your previous work and links to your profiles on GitHub and LinkedIn.
>>> Essentials:
-2+ years of experience with React projects
-(...)
-Good English communication skills (B2/C1)
>>> Nice to have:
-Gatsby / NextJS
-(...)
-Storybook
>>> Leverage:
We aim to create a balanced team of developers, and we encourage everyone to enhance their skills to cover other domains of the development world, so the experience with any of the following technologies will give you a great advantage:
-React Native
-(...)
-DevOps
>>> Job:
-Contract: ?
-Remote work
-Paid time off
-Flexible working hours
Process:
1.Application review
2.First interview-60min
3.Second meeting-90min
4.Final meeting-30min
5.Paperwork and onboarding