Tell HN: Why Foundation (TV series) sucks. And doesn't.
16 comments
I haven’t read the books, but I found Gaal Dornick and Salvor Hardnick’s storylines very difficult to follow. The actors felt miscast and the character development felt extremely rushed.
Possible spoilers:
One minute Gaal arrives and meets Raych Seldon. Within an episode, somehow they’ve become lovers? Um. What?
Hugo is possibly the most pointless character.
Salvor comes off as a heroic, protagonist, but it doesn’t seem earned.
The “Empire” is the only interesting plot line. Brother “Day” is casted very well. The rest of the show made little sense.
Overall the show has extremely high production quality. It’s looks like a beautifully seared, delicious piece of steak. But when you cut into it, it’s a glob of fat.
Possible spoilers:
One minute Gaal arrives and meets Raych Seldon. Within an episode, somehow they’ve become lovers? Um. What?
Hugo is possibly the most pointless character.
Salvor comes off as a heroic, protagonist, but it doesn’t seem earned.
The “Empire” is the only interesting plot line. Brother “Day” is casted very well. The rest of the show made little sense.
Overall the show has extremely high production quality. It’s looks like a beautifully seared, delicious piece of steak. But when you cut into it, it’s a glob of fat.
>I haven’t read the books, but I found Gaal Dornick and Salvor Hardnick’s storylines very difficult to follow. The actors felt miscast and the character development felt extremely rushed.
As I said, it seems that a lot of the story has been sacrificed to the altar of "what works on TV." Which is really dumb IMO, but happens all the time.
In the novels (which I really do recommend highly!), the former is a minor character and the latter is much, much more than the series makes out.
If I had to hazard a guess, the treatment of those characters is an attempt to appeal to the female 18-34 demographic more than anything else.
Which gives Asimov's storytelling short shrift.
For what it is, the first season of the TV series (which covers the first third or so of the first novel), is so far from the novel that I kept saying "what the hell just happened?" "That makes no sense!" and "I hope Asimov's estate was compensated handsomely for this. That's the only good that could come out of it!"
That said, I tried in my submission, to ignore the novels and look at the TV "adaptation" separately. And the best I could come up with was "the production values were high" and "the story line wasn't too terrible."
I torrented the episodes, even though I have a free six-month subscription to AppleTV+.
Given that it's been my only experience with Apple's productions, I certainly won't be using, let alone renewing that subscription.
Then again, as a middle-aged man, the series is definitely not geared toward me. Perhaps it will find success with the target demographic.
But do go and read the original trilogy and, if it sparks your interest, the follow-on novels as well. They are much more coherent and tell an interesting story with astonishing scope.
As I said, it seems that a lot of the story has been sacrificed to the altar of "what works on TV." Which is really dumb IMO, but happens all the time.
In the novels (which I really do recommend highly!), the former is a minor character and the latter is much, much more than the series makes out.
If I had to hazard a guess, the treatment of those characters is an attempt to appeal to the female 18-34 demographic more than anything else.
Which gives Asimov's storytelling short shrift.
For what it is, the first season of the TV series (which covers the first third or so of the first novel), is so far from the novel that I kept saying "what the hell just happened?" "That makes no sense!" and "I hope Asimov's estate was compensated handsomely for this. That's the only good that could come out of it!"
That said, I tried in my submission, to ignore the novels and look at the TV "adaptation" separately. And the best I could come up with was "the production values were high" and "the story line wasn't too terrible."
I torrented the episodes, even though I have a free six-month subscription to AppleTV+.
Given that it's been my only experience with Apple's productions, I certainly won't be using, let alone renewing that subscription.
Then again, as a middle-aged man, the series is definitely not geared toward me. Perhaps it will find success with the target demographic.
But do go and read the original trilogy and, if it sparks your interest, the follow-on novels as well. They are much more coherent and tell an interesting story with astonishing scope.
Apple seem to just be throwing money at anything now to fill their catalog. The production quality of their shows is high but the shows themselves are poorly written trash. I've watched a handful of their originals and so far the only one I can recommend is Dr. Brain. It's a Korean sci-fi drama, which is the only reason I imagine it was immune to the diversity at all costs mandate.
I completely agree with the point about Gaal. I honestly thought she was a pre-teen as the actress looks very young, so start the second episode with a sudden romance was very off-putting, as she looks so much younger than Raych. I wish they would have built up to that a bit.
I've enjoyed the show, but so far it's on the strength of Jared Harris as Hari Seldon and Lee Pace as Brother Day. The rest of the show is very forgettable and reminds me of low budget sci-fi "villain of the week" type shows.
(Note: Not a bookreader, and not at all familiar with the books)
I've enjoyed the show, but so far it's on the strength of Jared Harris as Hari Seldon and Lee Pace as Brother Day. The rest of the show is very forgettable and reminds me of low budget sci-fi "villain of the week" type shows.
(Note: Not a bookreader, and not at all familiar with the books)
>Jared Harris
Didn't watch Foundation yet, but loved him in The Expanse, such a charismatic presence.
Didn't watch Foundation yet, but loved him in The Expanse, such a charismatic presence.
If you liked him The Expanse, check out Chernobyl. It’s his best performance so far.
While Chernobyl is absolutely a masterpiece, Jared Harris’ performance in The Terror season 1 remains his finest by an incredible margin. Every muscle he exercised in Chernobyl is on display in TERROR S1, and about a thousand more. Highly highly recommend for anyone who appreciates mature, emotionally complex drama. It’s a crime how few people seem to be aware of it!
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On reflection, I'd add that the casting/actors of the series are actually pretty good and the quality of the production is very good.
I suppose my biggest peeve comes from having read the novels first. Which is normal for TV/movie adaptations of novels.
Which is why I didn't start reading The Expanse novels until I'd watched the TV season treated by each novel. That made the TV series much better IMHO.
I suppose my biggest peeve comes from having read the novels first. Which is normal for TV/movie adaptations of novels.
Which is why I didn't start reading The Expanse novels until I'd watched the TV season treated by each novel. That made the TV series much better IMHO.
Seldon and Empire are the only good actors cast IMO.
The series seems more interested in shoehorning diversity and anti-establishment rhetoric rather than painting the political odyssey that Asimov imagined. I am imensely dissappointed with the show both as an interpretation of his work and standalone sci-fi series.
The series seems more interested in shoehorning diversity and anti-establishment rhetoric rather than painting the political odyssey that Asimov imagined. I am imensely dissappointed with the show both as an interpretation of his work and standalone sci-fi series.
>The series seems more interested in shoehorning diversity and anti-establishment rhetoric rather than painting the political odyssey that Asimov imagined. I am imensely dissappointed with the show both as an interpretation of his work and standalone sci-fi series.
I didn't take that from the series at all. Rather, I found it to be overly moralistic, with references to the destructiveness of religious fervor and a lack of vision WRT the vastness of the galactic empire envisioned by Asimov.
I'd say that rather than being anti-establishment, it's much more pro-establishment, where "the establishment" are the ones on the inside trying to good, while the corrupt ones do evil to their self-righteous, morally superior betters and equally evil outsiders, horrifying all the "right-thinking" people.
It's pretty standard TV fare which, sadly, gives short shrift to Asimov's smart and insightful view of humans and how they wield and are molded by power.
I'll watch it, both for the car crash in-slow-motion reaction of how they butcher the story, and for the pleasure of knowing Apple won't get a nickel out me for doing so.
I didn't take that from the series at all. Rather, I found it to be overly moralistic, with references to the destructiveness of religious fervor and a lack of vision WRT the vastness of the galactic empire envisioned by Asimov.
I'd say that rather than being anti-establishment, it's much more pro-establishment, where "the establishment" are the ones on the inside trying to good, while the corrupt ones do evil to their self-righteous, morally superior betters and equally evil outsiders, horrifying all the "right-thinking" people.
It's pretty standard TV fare which, sadly, gives short shrift to Asimov's smart and insightful view of humans and how they wield and are molded by power.
I'll watch it, both for the car crash in-slow-motion reaction of how they butcher the story, and for the pleasure of knowing Apple won't get a nickel out me for doing so.
I'm quite conflicted because I wanted to like it so much and the production is so beautiful, but the fact they have reversed so many Asimov themes is really disheartening.
The sets, costumes, lighting, cinematography and most of the acting is truly superb. I'd think it's safe to say to it's the most enveloping sci-fi universe ever captured in a tv show with all the money and details that have gone into the production.
And yet the writing has Salvor Hardin shoot someone in the neck in the very episode they quote the famous aphorism "violence is the last refuge of the incompetent". The day to day technology within the empire is so advanced what room for innovation does the Foundation have? They seem to have abandoned the religious aspect of the first Foundation expansion, which would have been fascinating to explore (though they could still potentially retrieve by skipping forward and making Seldin and his appearance from beyond the grave into the basis for a faith that grows up around the founding of the alliance).
Maybe it's true Foundation is unfilmable as written, but there was room for taking the themes of the ossification of institutions and the innovation borne of necessity and making something that matched much more closely to the spirit of Foundation. What we got feels like a cargo cult adaption where the words match the book but there isn't any meaning, understanding or depth behind them.
The sets, costumes, lighting, cinematography and most of the acting is truly superb. I'd think it's safe to say to it's the most enveloping sci-fi universe ever captured in a tv show with all the money and details that have gone into the production.
And yet the writing has Salvor Hardin shoot someone in the neck in the very episode they quote the famous aphorism "violence is the last refuge of the incompetent". The day to day technology within the empire is so advanced what room for innovation does the Foundation have? They seem to have abandoned the religious aspect of the first Foundation expansion, which would have been fascinating to explore (though they could still potentially retrieve by skipping forward and making Seldin and his appearance from beyond the grave into the basis for a faith that grows up around the founding of the alliance).
Maybe it's true Foundation is unfilmable as written, but there was room for taking the themes of the ossification of institutions and the innovation borne of necessity and making something that matched much more closely to the spirit of Foundation. What we got feels like a cargo cult adaption where the words match the book but there isn't any meaning, understanding or depth behind them.
I felt that Peter Jackson butchered Lord of The Rings.
There was no reason for all the changes he made and many of them were stupid and offensive such as dwarves being portrayed sort of like clowns.
There were many great things about Jackson’s LOTR but overall it was a real disappointment. The Hobbit was truly garbage.
There was no reason for all the changes he made and many of them were stupid and offensive such as dwarves being portrayed sort of like clowns.
There were many great things about Jackson’s LOTR but overall it was a real disappointment. The Hobbit was truly garbage.
Thanks for the review, I'm glad I missed it.
Thank you for posting. I have not watched the series yet, and as a lover of the books, I will avoid getting angry as Hollywood ruins another story.
As someone who has enjoyed the worlds of Isaac Asimov's fiction for many years, I was excited to watch the TV adaptation[0] of his Foundation series.
I expected a good deal of re-imagining of the original novels, as Asimov's story spans centuries and recasting the series every few episodes would be both challenging and wouldn't allow viewers to invest in specific characters -- which is a big no no in television.
I also expected some story lines to be combined with others, and some to be excised, in order to maintain a reasonable (for TV) number of plot lines in the story being told.
However, I did not expect the show to veer so far from the novels as to completely change the narrative of the story.
That Salvor Hardin was gender-switched was perfectly fine, and even the reveal of the Second Foundation (and, even more, the reveal of its location) didn't really bother me all that much. Making Hardin an inexperienced teenager with gifts of perception and a penchant for violent outbursts rather than a talented and experienced bureaucrat most remembered for "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent", was rather lazy IMHO.
However, I found the complete redefinition of the history, origin and level of maturity of Gaal Dornick rather insulting and offensive to the character.
Making the "emperor" three in a line of clones dating back half a millenium was also unexpected, but not that surprising given the casting/relateability issues mentioned above.
I suppose that it seemed necessary (from a TV perspective) to paint the Galactic Empire as evil, pernicious and grasping, in order to create the conditions for a hated regime that deserved to fail, rather than the more banal (and likely, but less evocative of immediate drama) scenario of an enormous, sessile entity drowning in its own bureaucracy.
And ignoring the (incredibly obvious) fact that the Foundation on Terminus was a source of technological and engineering expertise and treating it as a rag-tag group of semi-refugees without resources or the ability to interact politically (which, again was sabotaged by the need to make the empire evil) with its powerful, but technologically inferior neighbors, weakened one of the overarching premises of the novels: that the Foundation was a conservative force for knowledge retention and reducing the 10,000 years of chaos to just 1,000.
And ignoring the "Three Laws of Robotics" in having Demerzel assassinate those who might challenge the primacy of the emperor was quite disturbing as well.
As such, I find that, unlike Peter Jackson's treatment of The Lord of the Rings, Foundation is more a new story loosely based in Asimov's universe than a reasonably faithful adaptation of the novels.
All that said, the story line presented isn't too terrible, and while it does seem to cater more to those with a lust for emotional angst and manufactured drama. It's not too bad.
Assuming the series gets picked up for a second season, I'll watch it.
That said, Asimov's Foundation series[1] is wonderful in its storytelling and scope. Even the follow on novels by others are mostly pretty good too. I highly recommend reading those. Although perhaps not until after watching the TV "adaptation."
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_(TV_series)
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_series