XVideos: The porn empire next door(netzpolitik.org)
netzpolitik.org
XVideos: The porn empire next door
https://netzpolitik.org/2022/xvideos-the-porn-empire-next-door/
261 comments
Anal, gangbangs, humiliation and other hardcore scenes pay extra. Significantly better money than normal scenes.
Take Lana Rhoades for example, an "outspoken critic of the adult industry" with numerous anal gangbangs and humiliation scenes under her belt:
"One of the worst... honestly, I feel like I'm in denial sometimes and I can't accept some of the things that I've done.
"There was one thing that, ya know, I tried talking to a therapist about before something that I had to do for a scene that was really rough for me.
"Basically, this guy had a bowl and he, like, gagged me until I threw up into it and he, like, pissed in the bowl, and during the scene he asked me to drink it, and I didn't know how to say no.
"It was one of the most disgusting, foul scenes."
It was so traumatic .... Lena decided to go back two more times to do more humiliation scenes with same producer. $$$$
Take Lana Rhoades for example, an "outspoken critic of the adult industry" with numerous anal gangbangs and humiliation scenes under her belt:
"One of the worst... honestly, I feel like I'm in denial sometimes and I can't accept some of the things that I've done.
"There was one thing that, ya know, I tried talking to a therapist about before something that I had to do for a scene that was really rough for me.
"Basically, this guy had a bowl and he, like, gagged me until I threw up into it and he, like, pissed in the bowl, and during the scene he asked me to drink it, and I didn't know how to say no.
"It was one of the most disgusting, foul scenes."
It was so traumatic .... Lena decided to go back two more times to do more humiliation scenes with same producer. $$$$
>It was so traumatic .... Lena decided to go back two more times to do more humiliation scenes with same producer.
Honestly doesn't sound any different to the women who go from one abusive boyfriend to the next. There's something going on there, and I think it's more than economics.
Honestly doesn't sound any different to the women who go from one abusive boyfriend to the next. There's something going on there, and I think it's more than economics.
Trauma leads to changes in brain chemistry that can cause reenactment behaviors until the trauma gets resolved
https://lakesidemilam.com/blog/trauma-stress-repetition-comp...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3330499/
https://lakesidemilam.com/blog/trauma-stress-repetition-comp...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3330499/
Something like Stockholm syndrome?
> Something like Stockholm syndrome?
More like PTSD and the difficulty it can produce dealing with normal situations.
Stockholm Syndrome is something invented on the spot, by someone integral to advising the police violence in question, to leverage misogyny to dismiss criticism of unnecessary police violence endangering hostages in a particular event, that remains a popular idea because media (both news and fictional) likes invoking it.
More like PTSD and the difficulty it can produce dealing with normal situations.
Stockholm Syndrome is something invented on the spot, by someone integral to advising the police violence in question, to leverage misogyny to dismiss criticism of unnecessary police violence endangering hostages in a particular event, that remains a popular idea because media (both news and fictional) likes invoking it.
> It was so traumatic .... Lena decided to go back two more times to do more humiliation scenes with same producer. $$$$
I'm not sure if you're trying to imply snarkily that because Lena went back to do more pornography shoots that she is lying about her experience and trauma. But just in case that is what you're implying it's worth me pointing out that repitition is a very common consequence of sufferring a trauma. The mental effects of trauma cause a cycle of trauma re-enactment behaviors.
https://lakesidemilam.com/blog/trauma-stress-repetition-comp...
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2664732/
I'm not sure if you're trying to imply snarkily that because Lena went back to do more pornography shoots that she is lying about her experience and trauma. But just in case that is what you're implying it's worth me pointing out that repitition is a very common consequence of sufferring a trauma. The mental effects of trauma cause a cycle of trauma re-enactment behaviors.
https://lakesidemilam.com/blog/trauma-stress-repetition-comp...
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2664732/
What they mean is that money is that higher in those scenes that they endure to do it again even if they're traumatic.
I think the defense from porn sites would be that you could apply this to a whole range of destructive behaviors, from self-harm, to stealing, to causing trauma in others (in fact this is considered an important factor in essentially all forms of abuse). Yes, people can use porn to destroy themselves. It's not the worst thing people do, by far. There's the occasional story of porn actually helping (you know, because money).
Why should you need to prove that you're doing porn shoots for the right reasons ... and not when buying anything even remotely sharp (which may be used for self-harm), or for private sex acts (so why shouldn't there be limits on buying condoms or lube or ...)?
And yet when we put it in ways that would really make a difference, like requiring when a teacher buys a "barely 18" magazine, the police gets notified. Or, in Europe, when buying or surfing to anything extreme-right (a BIG no-no for anyone in public office in many WW2 participant countries, Germany, France, Belgium, ...). That would be totally unacceptable, and yet would probably protect more people than porn regulations.
And, lastly, porn (and ...) is a way people survive. If you take it away you are taking away people's livelihoods, which will have strong negative consequences for them. Is homelessness better or worse than porn? Because all these "protect women" efforts are a bit like youth care: any careful look at the alternative will make you question if these people have the good of those women at heart.
Why should you need to prove that you're doing porn shoots for the right reasons ... and not when buying anything even remotely sharp (which may be used for self-harm), or for private sex acts (so why shouldn't there be limits on buying condoms or lube or ...)?
And yet when we put it in ways that would really make a difference, like requiring when a teacher buys a "barely 18" magazine, the police gets notified. Or, in Europe, when buying or surfing to anything extreme-right (a BIG no-no for anyone in public office in many WW2 participant countries, Germany, France, Belgium, ...). That would be totally unacceptable, and yet would probably protect more people than porn regulations.
And, lastly, porn (and ...) is a way people survive. If you take it away you are taking away people's livelihoods, which will have strong negative consequences for them. Is homelessness better or worse than porn? Because all these "protect women" efforts are a bit like youth care: any careful look at the alternative will make you question if these people have the good of those women at heart.
I'm not saying porn should be banned, I'm just think people are misinformed that there are no consequences to it, or that it's harmless.
Just like the solution to drug addiction isn't making drug usage illegal, neither is banning porn.
Just like the solution to drug addiction isn't making drug usage illegal, neither is banning porn.
All that proves is that people who are messed up struggle to change their lives. The idea that someone is doing those things to make a fortune is daft.
Porn is a machine that turns drug addicts into money. It's objectively bad as far as I'm concerned.
Porn is a machine that turns drug addicts into money. It's objectively bad as far as I'm concerned.
> Porn is a machine that turns drug addicts into money.
Consider this[1]: "Belle Delphine is a hugely successful OnlyFans model making $1.2 million a month."
[1] https://www.insider.com/belle-delphine-net-worth-onlyfans-dr...
Consider this[1]: "Belle Delphine is a hugely successful OnlyFans model making $1.2 million a month."
[1] https://www.insider.com/belle-delphine-net-worth-onlyfans-dr...
Yes, a single counterexample negates the general trend.
I have a friend who is gay and some 15 years ago when online webcams were starting had earned enough to buy a flat and a car with this, within 1 or 2 years. Nothing hardcore. It was mostly from tips. Wouldn't be possible to earn that much now, not for same things.
I guess sudden relative wealth isn't something many of these can handle properly and start doing stupid things.
I guess sudden relative wealth isn't something many of these can handle properly and start doing stupid things.
I read that as per year at first. Per. Month. Wow.
Certainly not fortune, but fame, adoration, good living, future without actual work. Rich husband, influencer career, etc. Drug addicts dont last in porn.
Dakota Skye lasted quiet a long time until she OD'd.
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/porn-s...
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/porn-s...
> Drug addicts dont last in porn.
The producers know. And swap them out. As long there is somebody else, who can be abused by the same promises.
The producers know. And swap them out. As long there is somebody else, who can be abused by the same promises.
>future without actual work
Did you read TFA that goes in explicit details of the amount of actual work involved in porn?
Did you read TFA that goes in explicit details of the amount of actual work involved in porn?
You simply misunderstood me. Porn is treated by many performers as a gateway to larger things. Getting noticed, gaining notoriety, scoring rich husbands (footballer, Harvard professor), building "my after pron" careers like Lana.
[deleted]
Free porn online is marketing for high priced prostitution.
If you have lots of money, you can have sex with pornstars for money.
If you have lots of money, you can have sex with pornstars for money.
Probably parent doesn't consider sex work as "actual work", which is stupid. Sex work is probably the oldest form of "actual work" since modern civilization or even older.
> Porn is a machine that turns drug addicts into money. It's objectively bad as far as I'm concerned.
Here's an idea - regulate the porn industry so that anyone failing a drug test is cannot work in it, make the tests mandatory.
Here's an idea - regulate the porn industry so that anyone failing a drug test is cannot work in it, make the tests mandatory.
What we need is a war on drugs. We'll totally win that and there won't be drugs anymore.
> What we need is a war on drugs. We'll totally win that and there won't be drugs anymore.
I did not express an opinion on the legalisation (or not) of any drug at all.
My point is that if performers are performing only due to promise of getting their next fix, then regulating the industry and preventing them from getting hired at all in porn is a good solution. After all, what are the alternatives?
Lots of industries have regulations on drug use (once again, it's irrelevant whether the drug in question is legal or not); why not add the porn industry to that list?
I did not express an opinion on the legalisation (or not) of any drug at all.
My point is that if performers are performing only due to promise of getting their next fix, then regulating the industry and preventing them from getting hired at all in porn is a good solution. After all, what are the alternatives?
Lots of industries have regulations on drug use (once again, it's irrelevant whether the drug in question is legal or not); why not add the porn industry to that list?
Maybe we can change the game-theoretic parameters of the universe to disincentivize short-term outcome optimisation.
I don't think this is your implied reading of what you present, but it's worth considering how desperate for money (or how self-destructive, either is deeply concerning) you need to be to be willing to keep going back to traumatizing experience after traumatizing experience despite being aware enough of the trauma to seek out a mental health professional.
It's one thing to look at a story like this and say "oh, well, porn actresses knowingly make bad choices, I guess they just want the cash" and another to question what drives people to knowingly self-harm for money.
It's one thing to look at a story like this and say "oh, well, porn actresses knowingly make bad choices, I guess they just want the cash" and another to question what drives people to knowingly self-harm for money.
Its their choice. You can do 10 solo toy scenes, or one where some repulsive dude puts a toilet seat on your neck and pisses straight into your mouth. Why blame third parties for your own consensual life choices?
>Why blame third parties for your own consensual life choices?
Because certain people (homeless, mentally ill, dealing with substance abuse) will agree to degrading treatment that no regular person would accept. Taking advantage of someone in these sorts of situations is predatory.
Because certain people (homeless, mentally ill, dealing with substance abuse) will agree to degrading treatment that no regular person would accept. Taking advantage of someone in these sorts of situations is predatory.
And the porn industry seems designed to wash guilt. The directors just make films. The sites just host content. The viewers just watch content.
But in aggregate, this system creates a huge financial incentive to exploit anyone you can.
I'm all for regulation, if done in a non-puritanical, individual freedom-promoting way. People should be able to choose to be involved in producing porn. No one should feel forced into producing porn.
If we, as a society, aren't willing to ban porn (and I don't think we should), then we have a moral obligation to prevent workplace exploitation in its production via regulation, investigation, and social support resources.
But in aggregate, this system creates a huge financial incentive to exploit anyone you can.
I'm all for regulation, if done in a non-puritanical, individual freedom-promoting way. People should be able to choose to be involved in producing porn. No one should feel forced into producing porn.
If we, as a society, aren't willing to ban porn (and I don't think we should), then we have a moral obligation to prevent workplace exploitation in its production via regulation, investigation, and social support resources.
Maybe the solution is to pursue a society where people are not so unequal that they feel tempted to degrade themselves for money? Maybe we should have minimum income to at least a level where everyone is capable of meeting basic needs, basically "fuck you money" for everyone.
IMHO doing obviously unethical work for money is also degrading and is much more common than porn. It's one thing if someone wants the money and doesn't care, but there are millions of people around the world in e.g. scam call centers that do this kind of work to stay out of the worst of the slums.
IMHO doing obviously unethical work for money is also degrading and is much more common than porn. It's one thing if someone wants the money and doesn't care, but there are millions of people around the world in e.g. scam call centers that do this kind of work to stay out of the worst of the slums.
I know you propose it with a maybe and i do not mean to attack you. That said, it is so simplistic to think people only do degrading things because they need money, that if they had money it would not happen. I think we are so more gray than that.
"fuck you money" is undefined. I am pretty sure that there are people that do not care about the amount, they care how they are compared to their peers. Just for these people, arguably most people, your solution already fails.
The other simplification is the assertion that degradation is a universal concept and that the threshold is the same. This is extremely difficult to define and i am pretty sure a catholic priest's definition of degradation starts at anything else than marital sex. We can define something more liberal but then we need to take the great step of saying what is acceptable regarding one's sexuality. Seems to me most liberal societies decide to bail that discussion, just deciding that if you did it without coercion it is fine. I also find that position objectionable by the way, as there are work contracts which are by definition illegal(eg, a contract for work of more than 40 hours per week), and i do not see why we could not go further.
All and all, maybe giving these people social security, requirements for mental and physical tests, a subsidy for change of employment, could help lower the chance of unfair and dysfunctional societies. At the same time if someone wants to do, distribute or consume this stuff, then we get the benefit that the chain is legitimate. I think that is really worth it. Sex workers do really important social work.
"fuck you money" is undefined. I am pretty sure that there are people that do not care about the amount, they care how they are compared to their peers. Just for these people, arguably most people, your solution already fails.
The other simplification is the assertion that degradation is a universal concept and that the threshold is the same. This is extremely difficult to define and i am pretty sure a catholic priest's definition of degradation starts at anything else than marital sex. We can define something more liberal but then we need to take the great step of saying what is acceptable regarding one's sexuality. Seems to me most liberal societies decide to bail that discussion, just deciding that if you did it without coercion it is fine. I also find that position objectionable by the way, as there are work contracts which are by definition illegal(eg, a contract for work of more than 40 hours per week), and i do not see why we could not go further.
All and all, maybe giving these people social security, requirements for mental and physical tests, a subsidy for change of employment, could help lower the chance of unfair and dysfunctional societies. At the same time if someone wants to do, distribute or consume this stuff, then we get the benefit that the chain is legitimate. I think that is really worth it. Sex workers do really important social work.
Absolutely. The problem with sex work isn't that it's sex, but that it's work.
It's both. All wage labor is exploitative. But that doesn't mean all wage labor is equally abusive. Even without the cultural biases against sex work, there's a tangible difference in the vulnerability of selling intimacy.
I caught the pre-edit phrasing and agreed with it too. ;)
But agreed that the greater good would be looking at the structural facts that force people into unethical work and addressing those.
But agreed that the greater good would be looking at the structural facts that force people into unethical work and addressing those.
That observation has nothing to do with the porn industry. The agricultural and meat processing industries have been aware of this for centuries.
Its an avenue for people who consistently make bad decisions to monetize that trait.
Brutal take, but I would argue it's just as valid as the opposite take:
"People who helplessly fell through the cracks become victims of those preying on the weak"
In reality its a mix of both and would come down to arguing over which is more prevelant.
Brutal take, but I would argue it's just as valid as the opposite take:
"People who helplessly fell through the cracks become victims of those preying on the weak"
In reality its a mix of both and would come down to arguing over which is more prevelant.
People often to go back to their abusers, even though it means getting abused again. That doesn't mean it's okay to abuse them.
no one is telling you you can’t get off to it, you just don’t get to act like it’s ok anymore. we both understand that there are factors outside of money when exchanging it for services. these women are offered things they can’t turn down due to other issues. no need to dance around it, just add lack of consent to your kinks and the porn is even better
> these women are offered things they can’t turn down due to other issues.
Yes that's generally how jobs work. You need to take them to make money to survive. Porn is not special in this case.
Yes that's generally how jobs work. You need to take them to make money to survive. Porn is not special in this case.
I used to think this way too and the attitude is still widespread even on the left, but porn is special because sex work is tangibly different.
You may argue that the difference is entirely cultural and if our culture were different, sex work would stop being special, but with things being as they are, there's no place on Earth where sex work isn't different from other forms of work.
Heck, just looking at it without considering the actual sex acts and sexual nature of the work, porn is mixing a lot of extremes from other fields of work (emotional labor, selling your physical likeness, intense physical labor, etc) while often involving extremely toxic work environments and abusive business practices. It's "easy money" in terms of money received as a function of time spent, but it's not at all an easy line of work even if you ignore all the social and cultural aspects of it (e.g. risk of losing your home, losing custody, being disowned by your family, difficulty finding romantic partners, risk of being physically, emotionally and sexually abused by people outside work, etc).
You may argue that the difference is entirely cultural and if our culture were different, sex work would stop being special, but with things being as they are, there's no place on Earth where sex work isn't different from other forms of work.
Heck, just looking at it without considering the actual sex acts and sexual nature of the work, porn is mixing a lot of extremes from other fields of work (emotional labor, selling your physical likeness, intense physical labor, etc) while often involving extremely toxic work environments and abusive business practices. It's "easy money" in terms of money received as a function of time spent, but it's not at all an easy line of work even if you ignore all the social and cultural aspects of it (e.g. risk of losing your home, losing custody, being disowned by your family, difficulty finding romantic partners, risk of being physically, emotionally and sexually abused by people outside work, etc).
Nice personal attack.
>can’t turn down due to other issues
Like what? The difference between soft and hardcore stuff is probably ~10x the payout at the extreme end. So instead of one $3-5K scene and lets go shopping you now have to work every 2-4 days.
>can’t turn down due to other issues
Like what? The difference between soft and hardcore stuff is probably ~10x the payout at the extreme end. So instead of one $3-5K scene and lets go shopping you now have to work every 2-4 days.
how’s it a personal attack? the scene is legal, the exchange is known to both parties, it’s completely between two consenting adults, don’t kink shame.
so the term i’m dancing around is intersectionality. the opportunities afforded to these folks present them with artificially constrained options, and that constraint is the true issue here, not the porn. do not misrepresent my argument because you assumed i was being an ass, i’m just trying to call it as it is and for us to acknowledge it not change it lol
so the term i’m dancing around is intersectionality. the opportunities afforded to these folks present them with artificially constrained options, and that constraint is the true issue here, not the porn. do not misrepresent my argument because you assumed i was being an ass, i’m just trying to call it as it is and for us to acknowledge it not change it lol
There's something comparable there to workers doing extremely dangerous work, like crab fishing, oil drilling, and so forth. They pay crazy amounts of money because of the danger, only crazy people do the work. There's a huge psychological difference with sex work, of course, and the insurance and legal protections leave a lot to be desired. Maybe extreme work that entails risk of permanent physical harm should have a standard mandatory insurance threshold.
The contracts porn stars sign are often abusive of themselves.
American prudishness is a nasty force in the world. Sex work needs better regulation, less stigma, and maybe post office style banking isn't such a bad idea, since they couldn't discriminate against people in this arena.
The contracts porn stars sign are often abusive of themselves.
American prudishness is a nasty force in the world. Sex work needs better regulation, less stigma, and maybe post office style banking isn't such a bad idea, since they couldn't discriminate against people in this arena.
She also was involved in a crypto rugpull that she says was a result of the community not being positive enough for her: https://youtu.be/zPLiLCmGhkA
So perhaps, given this dishonesty, we should consider how truthful her statements above may be.
So perhaps, given this dishonesty, we should consider how truthful her statements above may be.
Or maybe we should take what she's saying on a case by case basis and also recognise the effects traumatic experiences can have as the range of factors at play in criminality. To reduce someone to the position of a hard wired liar who didn't deserve compassion or a voice is very worrying especially in 2022.
It's well documented that trauma survivors will seek out ways to relive their trauma. What you're suggesting is very dangerous and it's honestly frightening to see such an uninformed take on HN.
Whatever you have to say, I think mocking this person is wrong. Maybe you don't mean it to come across that way, but that's what it looks like to me.
Also, that's not how trauma works. People can't get out of it emotionally and mentally, like people who suffer abuse in other contexts. Also, people need money to survive, and exploitation is sadly not unusual.
Also, that's not how trauma works. People can't get out of it emotionally and mentally, like people who suffer abuse in other contexts. Also, people need money to survive, and exploitation is sadly not unusual.
Are these studios not responsible for traumatic outcomes tho? Or do they just weasel themselves out with contracts and jurisdictions with no such protection?
Or is mental health generally not protected same as physical health?
Or is mental health generally not protected same as physical health?
You kinda know what is going to happen when signing to do a scene for Facial Abuse dot com (repulsive human toilet people) or kink com (someone eventually sticks a cordless drill dildo in you while simultaneously pouring liquid vax, while you are hanging from ceiling by the leg).
> You kinda know what is going to happen when signing
In fact, many performers say they do not, and they are taken advantage of. Many say they are lied to. I've read them talk about using safe words, and the men ignorning them and cutting them out of the footage.
In fact, many performers say they do not, and they are taken advantage of. Many say they are lied to. I've read them talk about using safe words, and the men ignorning them and cutting them out of the footage.
I actually feel disgusted sharing the same community with you.
Your take is bad and it's gross that you think this way about exploitation in the adult film industry.
>if you need a local anaesthetic, it somewhat implies that you're doing dangerous stuff.
It explains why porn is mostly made in low income regions like Eastern Europe and South-East Asia. Lots of desperate people trying to get by who will get into dangerous activities trying to make ends meet.
Although the economy is now much better than it was in the 90's, even today in my Eastern European college town, the university campuses are full of adverts for "modelling agencies" that are basically fronts for bating young women into the porn industry.
Back in the 90's to the 00's, human trafficking here was rampant, with pimp gangs baiting young women from poor villages under the lie that they will work in hospitality in Western Europe to send money back home, but instead, taking their passports away, and sending them to forced prostitution in Western Europe, under punishments of beatings if they try to tell anyone or escape.
It explains why porn is mostly made in low income regions like Eastern Europe and South-East Asia. Lots of desperate people trying to get by who will get into dangerous activities trying to make ends meet.
Although the economy is now much better than it was in the 90's, even today in my Eastern European college town, the university campuses are full of adverts for "modelling agencies" that are basically fronts for bating young women into the porn industry.
Back in the 90's to the 00's, human trafficking here was rampant, with pimp gangs baiting young women from poor villages under the lie that they will work in hospitality in Western Europe to send money back home, but instead, taking their passports away, and sending them to forced prostitution in Western Europe, under punishments of beatings if they try to tell anyone or escape.
Off Topic
I abhor this concept of "Passport Confiscation". In middle east countries, this practice is very much prevalent. They hire poor people from Asia to construct roads, Fifa stadium, etc. Also, the first thing these bloodsuckers do is confiscate their passport. How is this different than slavery in China? Shouldn't we sanction such a toxic place?
I abhor this concept of "Passport Confiscation". In middle east countries, this practice is very much prevalent. They hire poor people from Asia to construct roads, Fifa stadium, etc. Also, the first thing these bloodsuckers do is confiscate their passport. How is this different than slavery in China? Shouldn't we sanction such a toxic place?
This happens all over the world, even in the Western countries.
Some (most?) Western countries explicitly have laws against this. Fun aside: I used to work at a student library and management was very clear about us not being allowed to retain government-issued personal ID cards as collateral (instead of the university-issued student ID cards) because doing so would be breaking the law.
Of course human traffickers don't care about the legality of the practice, but there's a difference between something being widespread among criminals and something being culturally (or legally) acceptable without having to buy off police or customs.
Of course human traffickers don't care about the legality of the practice, but there's a difference between something being widespread among criminals and something being culturally (or legally) acceptable without having to buy off police or customs.
And it’s horrific anywhere it occurs. That’s not a valid criticism.
Why is it always assumed that comments are arguing against their parent comments?
Western countries?
Pray give us some examples. Curious to know if this happens in Canada and USA.
Pray give us some examples. Curious to know if this happens in Canada and USA.
Get to know people at nearest local Vietnamese coffee shops, or Korean nail salons, etc. and you'll likely get some eye opening.
Yes, that happens in western countries. Either on construction sites or for "household aides."
For the first the authorities in most western countries try to uncover it with raids on construction sites etc. The household situation is tough, as it is harder to see.
For the first the authorities in most western countries try to uncover it with raids on construction sites etc. The household situation is tough, as it is harder to see.
It does, but you won't know about it because they're frequently labeled as "unregistered illegal aliens".
This sounds like something a law could deal with quite swiftly?
"Jail time + huge fines for anyone other than law enforcement with a legal order or warrant denying access any document a person requires for travel."
"Jail time + huge fines for anyone other than law enforcement with a legal order or warrant denying access any document a person requires for travel."
Why not just scan all passports on arrival. Then if a passport is lost or stolen a fingerprint and biometric Id can just be used in place. The whole concept of a physical passport is so pre internet
Oh yes, but unfortunately the physical passport is enshrined in a ton of treaties that are very hard and slow to change.
There are also some nasty privacy and autonomy implications to digitizing the passport system.
This is not primarily a technical problem, but that doesn't mean it's not a very hard problem. Tech people tend to assume that every non-technical problem is easy. Often people, legal, ethical, and institutional problems are quite a bit harder than just making shit work at the tech level, and it is not just because people are lazy or inept. It's because there are loads of competing concerns and stakeholders.
There are also some nasty privacy and autonomy implications to digitizing the passport system.
This is not primarily a technical problem, but that doesn't mean it's not a very hard problem. Tech people tend to assume that every non-technical problem is easy. Often people, legal, ethical, and institutional problems are quite a bit harder than just making shit work at the tech level, and it is not just because people are lazy or inept. It's because there are loads of competing concerns and stakeholders.
Non technical problems are the worst. The type of problem would probably take tens or hundreds of billions of dollars in manpower to fix. The amount of meetings and negotiations is probably staggering
Here is a case of this exact thing occuring in one of the wealthiest counties in the US, right outside of Washington, DC. The police were actively assisting the traffickers as well.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/suit-fairfax-police-offi...
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/suit-fairfax-police-offi...
The difference is that when something like this is uncovered in the US or Canada, we get news stories and politicians publicly condemning the practice. When forced labor happens in China, their state media calls it Western propaganda.
Then why don’t the people rise up against their state? Why would it be the business of other nations to intervene in the internal affairs of another?
Notably, what is happening to Russia externally is different, because they first started a war by attacking Ukraine.
Notably, what is happening to Russia externally is different, because they first started a war by attacking Ukraine.
I guess not everyone is contented to sit and watch fellow humans suffer just because they’re on the other side of an imaginary line.
> Then why don’t the people rise up against their state?
Because the governments have taken away or undermined all ability for people to organize. When you have to fear every single friend of you being a potential informant of the Secret Service, how will you find someone willing to do anything that goes against the government? Rule by fear is incredibly effective, it was what held together the Soviet Union, Yugoslavia, the GDR and modern Russia and China.
> Why would it be the business of other nations to intervene in the internal affairs of another?
Because we as humanity should have learned something from what my ancestors did in 1933-1945 - namely, to not stand aside in the face of obvious inhumanity.
Because the governments have taken away or undermined all ability for people to organize. When you have to fear every single friend of you being a potential informant of the Secret Service, how will you find someone willing to do anything that goes against the government? Rule by fear is incredibly effective, it was what held together the Soviet Union, Yugoslavia, the GDR and modern Russia and China.
> Why would it be the business of other nations to intervene in the internal affairs of another?
Because we as humanity should have learned something from what my ancestors did in 1933-1945 - namely, to not stand aside in the face of obvious inhumanity.
Historical uprisings look obvious in hindsight, but in real time, it takes some real chutzpah and/or desperation to say, "Hey guys, I've got this great idea. Let's overthrow the state!"
>Then why don’t the people rise up against their state? Why would it be the business of other nations to intervene in the internal affairs of another?
Because in general, from my experiencing interacting with Chinese nationals, the Chinese people either don't believe or don't care that their fellow countrymen are undergoing a systematic genocide.
Because in general, from my experiencing interacting with Chinese nationals, the Chinese people either don't believe or don't care that their fellow countrymen are undergoing a systematic genocide.
Does it happen with same degree and prevalence rates as the west?
[deleted]
Many hotels in Europe (and no doubt in other places) take possession of your passport.
A UK passport is the property of the UK government; as far as I'm aware, it's forbidden for a UK passport holder to voluntarily surrender it to a third party.
A UK passport is the property of the UK government; as far as I'm aware, it's forbidden for a UK passport holder to voluntarily surrender it to a third party.
You are not crazy, I have experienced the same in many countries all over the world. Now I just say no
Citation needed. I have traveled a lot and I've never, anywhere in the world, had a hotel attempt to hold onto my passport longer than it takes them to photocopy it for ID purposes.
I have, and I have had a motorbike rental place hold my passport as a deposit on the bike.
I haven't travelled internationally for a long time, so I withdraw my remark in deference to your greater experience.
> It explains why porn is mostly made in low income regions like Eastern Europe and South-East Asia.
Citation needed. Your claim doesn't match commonly reported data.
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The global leaders in porn are the U.S, taking a 60 per cent share of global internet pornography, Two thirds of all U.S porn sites are hosted in California with the country hosting a total of 4.2 million domains containing porn.
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Citation needed. Your claim doesn't match commonly reported data.
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The global leaders in porn are the U.S, taking a 60 per cent share of global internet pornography, Two thirds of all U.S porn sites are hosted in California with the country hosting a total of 4.2 million domains containing porn.
---
I think you're focussing on the wrong metric. This would be like saying that phones aren't made with slave labour because the companies are in california.
There's a disconnect between where the models come from, and where the money goes.
There's a disconnect between where the models come from, and where the money goes.
It has been my impression that most actors are American, followed by Russian. I couldn't find any numbers to corroborate that though.
> I think you're focussing on the wrong metric.
I'm focussing on the claim made by OP which is contrary to what is commonly reported (I provided the paste from the news report). He stated "It explains why porn is mostly made in low income regions like Eastern Europe and South-East Asia."
Do you believe OP's claim to be accurate? Could you clarify what evidence you used to form that belief?
I'm focussing on the claim made by OP which is contrary to what is commonly reported (I provided the paste from the news report). He stated "It explains why porn is mostly made in low income regions like Eastern Europe and South-East Asia."
Do you believe OP's claim to be accurate? Could you clarify what evidence you used to form that belief?
Geez, his metric is wonky - "made in $COUNTRY", but your rebuttal doesn't make sense either... you're looking at which country hosts the domain names of porn sites?!
Nevertheless, there are a lot of Eastern European porn actresses, and also a lot of videos filmed there, because well, that's where the actresses live! It seems like a combination of bad economies and attractive[1] people - there's presumably less Swedish porn because Swedes can get rich[2] by working a "normal" job, and there's less porn from (exercice for the reader: insert a country here) because the average porn viewer wouldn't find people from there arousing.
[1] Attractive for the average porn viewer.
[2] Rich in the sense of being able to afford a lifestyle, e.g. brand name stuff and the newest iPhone - an average Swede can probably afford those things with a few months' worth of savings, but an average Romanian would have to save a lot longer.
Nevertheless, there are a lot of Eastern European porn actresses, and also a lot of videos filmed there, because well, that's where the actresses live! It seems like a combination of bad economies and attractive[1] people - there's presumably less Swedish porn because Swedes can get rich[2] by working a "normal" job, and there's less porn from (exercice for the reader: insert a country here) because the average porn viewer wouldn't find people from there arousing.
[1] Attractive for the average porn viewer.
[2] Rich in the sense of being able to afford a lifestyle, e.g. brand name stuff and the newest iPhone - an average Swede can probably afford those things with a few months' worth of savings, but an average Romanian would have to save a lot longer.
> Geez, his metric is wonky - "made in $COUNTRY", but your rebuttal doesn't make sense either..
I did not attempt a rebuttal. I merely pasted a paragraph from a news article to point out that his claim doesn't seem to match up with what is commonly reported. Is his claim based on data? Or how about your claims? Or are both based on what categories of pornography and porn actresses viewers watch?
I did not attempt a rebuttal. I merely pasted a paragraph from a news article to point out that his claim doesn't seem to match up with what is commonly reported. Is his claim based on data? Or how about your claims? Or are both based on what categories of pornography and porn actresses viewers watch?
Oh boy, I can see this debate will be fruitless for probably both of us (more importantly for me, it'll be useless for me), because it seems our dictionaries disagree on what "rebuttal" means.
How is "I merely pasted a paragraph from a news article to point out that his claim doesn't seem to match up with what is commonly reported." not an attempt of a rebuttal? And your counter-claim (which countries host domains) doesn't fit his claim of "in which countries are porn produced"?
It'd be like him saying iPhones are made in China and you quoting an article that says he's wrong because the majority of iPhones are sold in the US.
I don't look forward to be even more confused.
How is "I merely pasted a paragraph from a news article to point out that his claim doesn't seem to match up with what is commonly reported." not an attempt of a rebuttal? And your counter-claim (which countries host domains) doesn't fit his claim of "in which countries are porn produced"?
It'd be like him saying iPhones are made in China and you quoting an article that says he's wrong because the majority of iPhones are sold in the US.
I don't look forward to be even more confused.
I'm saying his claim doesn't match up with the data that is frequently reported on and therefore requested what corroborating data he was basing his claim on. If I had attempted a rebuttal, I would have directly said his claim was wrong because here's data that directly opposes it. I don't have such data and thus was seeking clarification.
The porn he is mentioning are toxic porn, not the normal porn, so you can't compare it like this.
I don't see that conditional made in his claim. I'm asking for data to support his claim, if such data does not exist than it indicates the claim is unlikely to be valid.
Would you like to clarify your meaning of "normal porn" and "toxic porn", and what data exists to support your claim?
Would you like to clarify your meaning of "normal porn" and "toxic porn", and what data exists to support your claim?
As with any social or morality based topic, people drift back and forth between wide and narrow scopes. People tend to use the most extreme and narrow scope to establish a point, and then casually shift to create the impression of that point applying to the wider scope.
Most of this thread boils down to "partial-birth abortion as an argument against the RU486 abortion pill" level reasoning.
Most of this thread boils down to "partial-birth abortion as an argument against the RU486 abortion pill" level reasoning.
"global leaders in porn are the U.S, taking a 60 per cent share "
Where something is produced and where the money goes are two totally different questions
Where something is produced and where the money goes are two totally different questions
Porn is not made in South East Asia because local legislation is very hostile to it, as various producer wannabes in Pattaya find out the hard way.
The actual global epicenter of porn production is the San Fernando Valley near LA, where it's perfectly legal and there's a large industry offering everything you need.
The actual global epicenter of porn production is the San Fernando Valley near LA, where it's perfectly legal and there's a large industry offering everything you need.
I don't understand this "taking their passports away". It's not like you're a slave if you lost your passport. Also, you can travel pretty much everywhere within Western Europe without a passport, it's called the Schengen zone.
Except that the abused girls usually came from countries outside of Schengen (Albania, Serbia, Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, Romania, Bulgaria, etc.) Without their passport they couldn't go back home since their stay in the west was tied to some scam employer sponsored visa.
Also, you do realize that you still need your passport for identification for basically anything right? Living in Germany, the first thing you always hear when visiting any institution, police, hospital, pharmacy, etc. is 'Ausweis bitte!'. Without an ID, you will not be served unless you're in a life threatening emergency.
And the girls would be too afraid to go to the authorities for help, for the fear of beatings or the pimp gangs taking revenge out on their families back home, since they knew where they lived.
Also, you do realize that you still need your passport for identification for basically anything right? Living in Germany, the first thing you always hear when visiting any institution, police, hospital, pharmacy, etc. is 'Ausweis bitte!'. Without an ID, you will not be served unless you're in a life threatening emergency.
And the girls would be too afraid to go to the authorities for help, for the fear of beatings or the pimp gangs taking revenge out on their families back home, since they knew where they lived.
> And the girls would be too afraid to go to the authorities for help
In which western European countries are human trafficked girls afraid of going to the police? It's hard to imagine any western European country where authorities wouldn't take this extremely seriously, and where this wouldn't be front page news.
In which western European countries are human trafficked girls afraid of going to the police? It's hard to imagine any western European country where authorities wouldn't take this extremely seriously, and where this wouldn't be front page news.
You seem to be uninformed about basically the entire problem area. There is a large industry of human trafikking.
Spesifically in UK there was a scandal with local police basically ignoring the issue.
The girls are seen as illegal immigrants first, and any kind of victim second. Then there is the risk of blackmail, as in, if the girl's concervative family find out that she has been a sex slave, she would be disowned.
If none of the above issues apply, it is also important how the girls think the police will react, rather than how they will actually react.
And lastly, without your passport you are mostly stuck in an unfamiliar country, don't speak the language and probably you have no money either.
it is basically slavery.
Spesifically in UK there was a scandal with local police basically ignoring the issue.
The girls are seen as illegal immigrants first, and any kind of victim second. Then there is the risk of blackmail, as in, if the girl's concervative family find out that she has been a sex slave, she would be disowned.
If none of the above issues apply, it is also important how the girls think the police will react, rather than how they will actually react.
And lastly, without your passport you are mostly stuck in an unfamiliar country, don't speak the language and probably you have no money either.
it is basically slavery.
> Spesifically in UK there was a scandal with local police basically ignoring the issue.
Source?
> without your passport you are mostly stuck in an unfamiliar country
Without your passport you just go to your country's embassy and get a new one. Or if that's not possible because your country doesn't have them, claim refugee status.
Source?
> without your passport you are mostly stuck in an unfamiliar country
Without your passport you just go to your country's embassy and get a new one. Or if that's not possible because your country doesn't have them, claim refugee status.
»In 2018, it emerged that under the "hostile environment" policy, victims of modern slavery and human trafficking in the U.K. had been jailed in breach of the Modern Slavery Act 2015, and that several had been deported by the Home Office.«
[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Office_hostile_environm...
[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Office_hostile_environm...
It's not about the country where this happens but in the home country where the girls' families are that they are not safe from the mob if their racket is threatened. The police from another country can't offer them protection.
I see yea that makes more sense.
That is maybe a tangent, I do think so this story deserves some context.
A conservative, church backed organisatin (Edit: in Germany I have to add) promoting youth protection in the internet is currently pushing all kind of funny things against pron sites. Including limiting access, in a way that amounts to censoship.
The adult film industry is here to stay. It is profiting, as is sex work in general, from desperation and weakness (by no means to tue extend that is being pushed so). That means sex workers, regardless of the details, should be protected. Accusations of assault, sexual abuse and rape should be taken serious. In short, make it legal and regulate it. Enforce the rules, protect the actors.
If the abusive assholes forcing actors to produce extreme videos, should be of the internet. And that pressure is social and psychological. It builds up, I see parallels to abusive relationships.
A conservative, church backed organisatin (Edit: in Germany I have to add) promoting youth protection in the internet is currently pushing all kind of funny things against pron sites. Including limiting access, in a way that amounts to censoship.
The adult film industry is here to stay. It is profiting, as is sex work in general, from desperation and weakness (by no means to tue extend that is being pushed so). That means sex workers, regardless of the details, should be protected. Accusations of assault, sexual abuse and rape should be taken serious. In short, make it legal and regulate it. Enforce the rules, protect the actors.
If the abusive assholes forcing actors to produce extreme videos, should be of the internet. And that pressure is social and psychological. It builds up, I see parallels to abusive relationships.
> Then the bits about applying lidocaine to anuses to help them get through the shoot... I'm gobsmacked... if you need a local anaesthetic, it somewhat implies that you're doing dangerous stuff.
In this case it's no different from any professional sport.
In this case it's no different from any professional sport.
As a kid I watched VHS, then CD-ROMs, then DVDs, then internet .. then I grew up and saw sex/people differently. It pains me that porn is so prevalent. I'm no religious by culture nor personal views, but to me it's somehow stomping on the sacred (in the sense of very important emotions/bonds). It pains me twice to see how barbaric it goes.
A lot of people don't (and in my opinion, shouldn't) conflate such a primal activity as "sacred". Is it really a good idea to put sex up on a pedestal?
How much strife and suffering have we as a species created for ourselves because of our attitudes and jealousies about sex? Do you know how many people out there resent the amount of control that society tries to maintain over sexual expression and activity?
How much strife and suffering have we as a species created for ourselves because of our attitudes and jealousies about sex? Do you know how many people out there resent the amount of control that society tries to maintain over sexual expression and activity?
> A lot of people don't (and in my opinion, shouldn't) conflate such a primal activity as "sacred". Is it really a good idea to put sex up on a pedestal?
It's one of the best ideas people have ever come up with.
> Do you know how many people out there resent the amount of control that society tries to maintain over sexual expression and activity?
A small but increasingly loud minority. The vast majority of people benefit from social strictures and taboos surrounding sex.
It's one of the best ideas people have ever come up with.
> Do you know how many people out there resent the amount of control that society tries to maintain over sexual expression and activity?
A small but increasingly loud minority. The vast majority of people benefit from social strictures and taboos surrounding sex.
No, it's not. There's so many sexual things out there that are off the table if you restrict "sex" to heteronormative monogamy. So many people could live richer, more sexual fulfilling lives if only they felt it was OK.
Society benefits from family structure and family planning. And we have a deep desire to reproduce based on living in a world where there wasn't enough of us and too many died too easily. Unfortuntely there are now too many people and nobody likes it when someone dies arbitrarily, so we don't need to reproduce nearly as much.
Now that we have the technology, there is no reason why a rich family life and a rich sex life can't coexist.
edit, one other thing --
> A small but increasingly loud minority.
I suspect this is actually a majority but, sadly, religion and taboos have beaten this out of folks. The reason it is "increasing" is because more people are speaking up. Sexual unfulfilment is, I believe, one of the largest driving factors behind a lot of cheating and divorce
Society benefits from family structure and family planning. And we have a deep desire to reproduce based on living in a world where there wasn't enough of us and too many died too easily. Unfortuntely there are now too many people and nobody likes it when someone dies arbitrarily, so we don't need to reproduce nearly as much.
Now that we have the technology, there is no reason why a rich family life and a rich sex life can't coexist.
edit, one other thing --
> A small but increasingly loud minority.
I suspect this is actually a majority but, sadly, religion and taboos have beaten this out of folks. The reason it is "increasing" is because more people are speaking up. Sexual unfulfilment is, I believe, one of the largest driving factors behind a lot of cheating and divorce
> Sexual unfulfillment is, I believe, one of the largest driving factors behind a lot of cheating and divorce.
Maybe, but I don't think it's a root cause in most cases. Like, even if you had a social framework in place for the high libido partner to receive fulfillment outside the relationship, the issues (misaligned expectations, boundary issues, money stress, contempt, etc) that led to the breakdown in intimacy would still remain and and end manifesting in other ways.
I think probably a more helpful direction is to provide more guidance to couples for how to communicate around intimacy, how respond effective to a coalmine canary issue like "the sex isn't very good any more" in a way that uncovers the root causes rather than blaming one person for the symptom ("it's the LLP's fault for not doing the thing") or trying to fix it with band-aids ("just have more date nights lol").
Maybe, but I don't think it's a root cause in most cases. Like, even if you had a social framework in place for the high libido partner to receive fulfillment outside the relationship, the issues (misaligned expectations, boundary issues, money stress, contempt, etc) that led to the breakdown in intimacy would still remain and and end manifesting in other ways.
I think probably a more helpful direction is to provide more guidance to couples for how to communicate around intimacy, how respond effective to a coalmine canary issue like "the sex isn't very good any more" in a way that uncovers the root causes rather than blaming one person for the symptom ("it's the LLP's fault for not doing the thing") or trying to fix it with band-aids ("just have more date nights lol").
You make a lot of assumptions here. Sometimes the answer is simple and people are not sexually compatible, were never good at having sex together and rushed into a long term relationship. I've seen this more in people who were further along the 'sexual repression' spectrum (i.e. following religious advice about relationships and marriage).
Sometimes I think cheating and divorce is as much the norm as mating for life. I was reading a study recently that found that sexual intimacy steadily decreases over time in a long term relationship, and only seemed to go back up again if divorce/new partner happened. I will dig it out if anyone is interested.
There is a taboo around non-monogamy which I think is detrimental to many people, and certainly a lot of people make multiple partners work, despite all the barriers to doing this in most societies. It isn't a sticking plaster for other issues, that I agree though. If anything it needs the participants to understand well what they want and to be excellent communicators - something we can probably all work on.
Sometimes I think cheating and divorce is as much the norm as mating for life. I was reading a study recently that found that sexual intimacy steadily decreases over time in a long term relationship, and only seemed to go back up again if divorce/new partner happened. I will dig it out if anyone is interested.
There is a taboo around non-monogamy which I think is detrimental to many people, and certainly a lot of people make multiple partners work, despite all the barriers to doing this in most societies. It isn't a sticking plaster for other issues, that I agree though. If anything it needs the participants to understand well what they want and to be excellent communicators - something we can probably all work on.
slibhb(3)
> A lot of people don't (and in my opinion, shouldn't) conflate such a primal activity as "sacred". Is it really a good idea to put sex up on a pedestal?
I think people should have a realistic view of what sex is. It certainly is not a mechanical & purely physical act (perhaps thats what you mean by "primal"). Sex represented in porn tends be unrealistic and treats women as objects purely for male gratification, to use as some sort of sexual punching bag and evacuate feelings. Essentially it teaches viewers to dehumanise women and dissassociate from real life.
I think people should have a realistic view of what sex is. It certainly is not a mechanical & purely physical act (perhaps thats what you mean by "primal"). Sex represented in porn tends be unrealistic and treats women as objects purely for male gratification, to use as some sort of sexual punching bag and evacuate feelings. Essentially it teaches viewers to dehumanise women and dissassociate from real life.
Stats are showing that women are consuming lots of porn now too.
And I always find the 'dehumanizing' argument amusing, it's like saying that Nine Inch Nails represents all industrial music, or that all 90s rock is represented by Nickelback. If you go out seeking examples of dehumanization the systems are such that that is all you will find. If you seek out homemade videos by real couples happily posting them to Pornhub or Onlyfans, that is also what you will mostly find. If you seek out wild fetish stuff, then that is also what you will mostly find.
This is not the 90s, porn is quite diverse. For every headline out there manufactured to bring outrage to moralists, there are a hundred other stories which are much more benign.
Personally I'd do away with 'mainstream' porn, my inner voyeur likes the homemade stuff too much.
And I always find the 'dehumanizing' argument amusing, it's like saying that Nine Inch Nails represents all industrial music, or that all 90s rock is represented by Nickelback. If you go out seeking examples of dehumanization the systems are such that that is all you will find. If you seek out homemade videos by real couples happily posting them to Pornhub or Onlyfans, that is also what you will mostly find. If you seek out wild fetish stuff, then that is also what you will mostly find.
This is not the 90s, porn is quite diverse. For every headline out there manufactured to bring outrage to moralists, there are a hundred other stories which are much more benign.
Personally I'd do away with 'mainstream' porn, my inner voyeur likes the homemade stuff too much.
> Stats are showing that women are consuming lots of porn now too.
And that somehow makes porn nice and healthy does it?
> Personally I'd do away with 'mainstream' porn, my inner voyeur likes the homemade stuff too much.
I'm not sure I understand your argument, nor confident you understand mine. Just because a couple make homemade videos together and post them up, it doesn't mean the viewer who is getting sexual gratification has any sort of real connection to the performers. It's complete fantasy, dependant on the human body as solely as means of sexual gratification rather than any wholistic context. Now take that mindset to to the real world as see how maladapted it leaves you. Here in the UK there's an epidemic of highscool aged girls being pressured into sending nude images by boys. Of course porn can't be to blame for all of this, but I'm sure it plays a big part.
I'd also like to point out nothing I'm talking about is related to morality (since you mentioned it). Whatever people want to spend their time doing is up to them. I'm simply making the argument that porn can be harmful and lots of mainstream porn is really focused around turning women into sex objects and outlets for dealing with displaced emotions. I've no doubt that there's something deeper that drives your voyeurism too, maybe inquiring about that might make you pursue something more fulfilling than images on the internet.
Let's stop pretending there are no consequences to porn.
And that somehow makes porn nice and healthy does it?
> Personally I'd do away with 'mainstream' porn, my inner voyeur likes the homemade stuff too much.
I'm not sure I understand your argument, nor confident you understand mine. Just because a couple make homemade videos together and post them up, it doesn't mean the viewer who is getting sexual gratification has any sort of real connection to the performers. It's complete fantasy, dependant on the human body as solely as means of sexual gratification rather than any wholistic context. Now take that mindset to to the real world as see how maladapted it leaves you. Here in the UK there's an epidemic of highscool aged girls being pressured into sending nude images by boys. Of course porn can't be to blame for all of this, but I'm sure it plays a big part.
I'd also like to point out nothing I'm talking about is related to morality (since you mentioned it). Whatever people want to spend their time doing is up to them. I'm simply making the argument that porn can be harmful and lots of mainstream porn is really focused around turning women into sex objects and outlets for dealing with displaced emotions. I've no doubt that there's something deeper that drives your voyeurism too, maybe inquiring about that might make you pursue something more fulfilling than images on the internet.
Let's stop pretending there are no consequences to porn.
[deleted]
IMO all porn will be illegal in less than 50 years.
We just happen to live in this small blip in time that an almost libertine view of sex is normalized but this will not last forever.
We just happen to live in this small blip in time that an almost libertine view of sex is normalized but this will not last forever.
The only way that will ever happen is if the moralist fascists vying for power in conservative parties win, because getting rid of porn is going to piss off a lot of people.
Popular attitudes will eventually swing to favor piety and austerity. Likely accelerated by material decline which historically has changed social behavior. When the elderly, possibly seen as contributing to the next generations’ problems, are complaining about young people not making enough porn, not many will be quick to oblige them. Change in moral standards doesn’t require legislation or revolution.
I'm not doing it consciously, this is how I feel.
How you were programmed to feel, by a society with a vested interest in maintaining a status quo.
Personally I wonder what raw human sexuality looks like before society tamed it into what it is today. From an anatomical perspective, there are clues suggesting that humans mated with group sex far more often than they do today (like the shape of the glans on a penis being as such because it is good at scraping out another partner's semen), and anthropologically, where other primates mate in (sometimes coercive) groups.
In fact the anthropological case for monogamy is incredibly mixed, as the animal kingdom practices a wide variety of relationship styles.
Personally I wonder what raw human sexuality looks like before society tamed it into what it is today. From an anatomical perspective, there are clues suggesting that humans mated with group sex far more often than they do today (like the shape of the glans on a penis being as such because it is good at scraping out another partner's semen), and anthropologically, where other primates mate in (sometimes coercive) groups.
In fact the anthropological case for monogamy is incredibly mixed, as the animal kingdom practices a wide variety of relationship styles.
Stop, you have no idea about my personal life. I can assure you nothing of what remains in my brain was shaped by society[0]. Also I don't agree that using biology is an argument, or then I have more penguin genes than average :)
There are some human bonds that I consider emotionally harmful, fruitless, subpar, sad.. and most of free fun sexuality ends up there. I don't hear the words I care about when people talk about sex these days. Now as others said, people do what they want and if it's not harmful to any parties involved so be it.
[0] I lack the words to stress how much this is intimate and personal. Now to each his own brain, some people might have very few emotional attachment, I'm not like this.
There are some human bonds that I consider emotionally harmful, fruitless, subpar, sad.. and most of free fun sexuality ends up there. I don't hear the words I care about when people talk about sex these days. Now as others said, people do what they want and if it's not harmful to any parties involved so be it.
[0] I lack the words to stress how much this is intimate and personal. Now to each his own brain, some people might have very few emotional attachment, I'm not like this.
> I can assure you nothing of what remains in my brain was shaped by society
> I lack the words to stress how much this is intimate and personal. Now to each his own brain, some people might have very few emotional attachment, I'm not like this
So are you a robot then? Wherever you are from, your mind is a product of your influences and local culture and customs, just as much as it is also a product of your schooling and your family life. Given that we humans just absolutely love to meddle in the love lives of others, I can promise you that some of that cultural training includes guidance on how to structure your romantic relationships, and it almost certainly proscribes one man and one woman.
Unless you have spent a considerable amount of time examining these beliefs and have specifically chosen to reject the ones that your society has given you, I would argue that your brain is very much not your own in that sense.
If the opposite were true then things like propaganda would have a much harder time existing. We would have a perfect, rational world society that I dearly wish existed. Appeals to emotion would fall on deaf ears! How amazing that would be!
Instead we have entire countries full of people that live or die because of "cultural differences" aka the shit that society pollutes your mind with. One might argue that we are watching that play out with Ukraine vs Russia right now.
> Stop, you have no idea about my personal life.
You told me how you feel, so I do in fact have a small tidbit of information on your personal life
> I lack the words to stress how much this is intimate and personal. Now to each his own brain, some people might have very few emotional attachment, I'm not like this
So are you a robot then? Wherever you are from, your mind is a product of your influences and local culture and customs, just as much as it is also a product of your schooling and your family life. Given that we humans just absolutely love to meddle in the love lives of others, I can promise you that some of that cultural training includes guidance on how to structure your romantic relationships, and it almost certainly proscribes one man and one woman.
Unless you have spent a considerable amount of time examining these beliefs and have specifically chosen to reject the ones that your society has given you, I would argue that your brain is very much not your own in that sense.
If the opposite were true then things like propaganda would have a much harder time existing. We would have a perfect, rational world society that I dearly wish existed. Appeals to emotion would fall on deaf ears! How amazing that would be!
Instead we have entire countries full of people that live or die because of "cultural differences" aka the shit that society pollutes your mind with. One might argue that we are watching that play out with Ukraine vs Russia right now.
> Stop, you have no idea about my personal life.
You told me how you feel, so I do in fact have a small tidbit of information on your personal life
One of the most prominent customs of Americans is that we pretend to have no culture or customs on a national level. Of course, we actually do project a culture, and whenever that becomes apparent, many Americans are unhappy, because that culture isn't aligned well with their personal values.
Do people really believe that? Like, every fourth AskReddit thread seems to ask questions specifically of Americans. Which means someone thinks we're different enough to make a thread about it (over and over again...), ergo we have our own culture.
Maybe I've just traveled to much, and I have certainly rolled my eyes at some of my less informed countrymen, but I have a hard time believing people could think that our culture is somehow a baseline.
I agree that we project our culture a ton, and I really wish we wouldn't. It's so annoying to try and share something cultural with a foreign friend only to find out they already know and have opinions about it because they saw it on Friends
Maybe I've just traveled to much, and I have certainly rolled my eyes at some of my less informed countrymen, but I have a hard time believing people could think that our culture is somehow a baseline.
I agree that we project our culture a ton, and I really wish we wouldn't. It's so annoying to try and share something cultural with a foreign friend only to find out they already know and have opinions about it because they saw it on Friends
My take is that a lot of USians will vociferously defend the differences in regional cultures within the US - East vs. West, coastal vs. flyover, state vs. state and so on - as both a conscious and an unconscious response to questions of national cultures and norms. When someone claims the US is "too big" or "too diverse" (and isn't using the latter as a dog whistle) you see some of this implicit balkanisation of the US into incompatible units.
Of course the consistent reaction of Americans to the use of terms like "USians" is a big giveaway to the fact that there's a national identity and thus culture. As, I guess, is the habit of down-playing of any such thing lol.
Of course the consistent reaction of Americans to the use of terms like "USians" is a big giveaway to the fact that there's a national identity and thus culture. As, I guess, is the habit of down-playing of any such thing lol.
Unfortunately the few I wrote before is a minuscule amount of my experience with emotional and physical intimacy.
I'm sorry to insist, I had the displeasure to be off rail from the norm on extreme levels. Even deep introspection about norms and cultures would not register on a graph compared to the event that I had to go through.
I fail to describe more in details, but you're looking at the wrong layer, I'm talking about psychiatry/neurology levels, not social constructs.
I'm sorry to insist, I had the displeasure to be off rail from the norm on extreme levels. Even deep introspection about norms and cultures would not register on a graph compared to the event that I had to go through.
I fail to describe more in details, but you're looking at the wrong layer, I'm talking about psychiatry/neurology levels, not social constructs.
I think that when you need a local anaesthetic, it may no longer be sex, but other form of performance art.
Also, when you need to state your porn is legal, I kind of think it may be the case it shouldn't really be.
Also, when you need to state your porn is legal, I kind of think it may be the case it shouldn't really be.
If someone need to take pain medication in order to get money something is distinctly wrong.
I'm not disagreeing, but then why is this argument limited to sex work? I say this because I've only ever seen it made in discussions about sex work. There are oodles of jobs where people routinely get injured, suffer strain injuries and damage their bodies in various ways, and those are often low-paid jobs with exploitative work relationships as well. Is it because (unlike porn) much of the world is - literally - built on that? Or because it's easier to care about some than others?
There's plenty of discussion about workplace safety in just about every sector where is relevant. The rise of health & safety laws enacted by governments the world over throughout the past century should show you that. We used to have people working with asbestos without any personal protection as one example
This is good. We should have work regulations in place to prevent people from doing work that is harmful to the human body regardless of much a person volunteer to do it (in context of people wanting to get paid).
It does mean that labor costs will go up, especially in work places that pay low and require a lot of people doing physical work. It also mean we need to start having a different view about work places injuries. Every injury that occur because of work is a direct failure of either regulation or enforcement of said regulation.
It does mean that labor costs will go up, especially in work places that pay low and require a lot of people doing physical work. It also mean we need to start having a different view about work places injuries. Every injury that occur because of work is a direct failure of either regulation or enforcement of said regulation.
A lot of manual labor jobs result in destroying your body. Joints, backs, hearing, etc… it all goes much quicker when you’re lifting all day long and/or in a factory.
but what about the old adage 'hard time create stong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men'
do those people imagine you are stron man when your back gives out at the age of 30?
do those people imagine you are stron man when your back gives out at the age of 30?
> do those people imagine you are stron man when your back gives out at the age of 30?
I'd say the people who benefit the most of someone's back giving out at the age of 30 are very happy that there are plenty of willing people that want to be seen as "strong".
I'd say the people who benefit the most of someone's back giving out at the age of 30 are very happy that there are plenty of willing people that want to be seen as "strong".
Football and other professional sportspersons regularly take pain meds on game days.
If that's true, then something is seriously wrong with football.
I don't think anyone is arguing against that to be honest.
Hard disagree. There's an entire segment of the population that thinks football is continually being "pussified". Any attempt to make football not turn it's players into broken bodies is seen as ruining the sport.
They actively cheer for the bloodsport
They actively cheer for the bloodsport
I think that “anyone” should be interpreted as “anyone in this thread”. Of course you can find people arguing against anything being wrong with American football; you can find people arguing there are little gnomes living in their ears. And that’s probably excluding the Lizardman’s Constant.
Have you heard of CTE?
Technically, their point still stands.
Destroying one's body laboring in the hope that one will achieve a life where that kind of labor is no longer needed before one's body is unable to continue doing that kind of labor is a task older than history. Women doing porn are just speedrunning it.
think about sports... Although, there's definitely something wrong there
Oh yes. This is very similar to professional sports.
The best new example is a phenomen called Porpoising that came as a sideeffect of the new Formula 1 regulations and shift from aero to downforce cars. When a car goes fast on a straight the car starts to violently hop up and down. Instead of trying to fix it by any means of the governing body they just brush it off. "They might need some new fillings after the race or get a check up for concussions." Insane. [0]
[0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYyGSMwNji4
What are all those lidocaine condoms for then?
Numbing the penis so that the man doesn’t prematurely ejaculate? That doesn’t have anything to do with pain, though. In fact, it’s denying pleasure for a bit longer to allow for greater mutual pleasure
> I think that when you need a local anaesthetic
Many sexually active adults, even gubernatorial candidates and wealth businesspersons, enjoy "chemsex" - how is this any different?
Perhaps we shouldn't pre-judge others and kink shame before we've walked a mile in their heels.
Many sexually active adults, even gubernatorial candidates and wealth businesspersons, enjoy "chemsex" - how is this any different?
Perhaps we shouldn't pre-judge others and kink shame before we've walked a mile in their heels.
They're not doing it because it's their kink, they're doing it because their employer has made them do it. Not every criticism of something in the sex industry has to be "kink shaming" and to reduce everything to that is harmful and detrimental to serious discourse.
Did you read the link I posted? I don't think the women they were quoting were kink-shaming themselves.
If that second article is not fabricated then I believe the producers of that should be in jail. Forcing someone to do something that will injure them or they won't get paid anything, after lying about it.
I'm sure the whole industry is horrible but this seems pretty clearcut and high profile.
I'm sure the whole industry is horrible but this seems pretty clearcut and high profile.
> Then the bits about applying lidocaine to anuses to help them get through the shoot... I'm gobsmacked...
Unrelated to TFA but Lidocaine gel works incredibly well on aphthae / canker sore / mouth ulcer. If anyone here is sometimes getting crazy because of one of these... (not a medical advice though).
Unrelated to TFA but Lidocaine gel works incredibly well on aphthae / canker sore / mouth ulcer. If anyone here is sometimes getting crazy because of one of these... (not a medical advice though).
there isnt much of incriminating evidence in the article to justify the writing as if they discovered some terrorist cell or sth. searching for revenge porn and banning shady stuff is laudable, but there s so many people willing to make porn nowadays that it doesnt justify creating panics around it. even facebook and google have corporate structures in the carribean. The names they are printing are probably the owners of companies who serve as directors. I mean it's cool if you want to fight the global shell company system and all, but starting with a medium euro porn site doesnt seem particularly fruitful.
I wonder whose audience is this article; i don't think germans are so scared of porn
I wonder whose audience is this article; i don't think germans are so scared of porn
> i don't think germans are so scared of porn
I don't think this is the issue at all to be honest. It's not about puritanism or anti-pornography or whatever, it's about the people involved, the victims who are forced into prostitution (on camera or otherwise), or those who get their private videos published as revenge or as a consequence (blackmailing).
I don't think this is the issue at all to be honest. It's not about puritanism or anti-pornography or whatever, it's about the people involved, the victims who are forced into prostitution (on camera or otherwise), or those who get their private videos published as revenge or as a consequence (blackmailing).
> to justify the writing as if they discovered some terrorist cell or sth
I read it as whilst trying to uncover the people behind those businesses, we found those spend effort to not be uncovered.
Like a reverse "I don't need privacy because I have nothing to hide" fallacy.
Only that the reverse isn't that much a fallacy: if you spend this amount of money, effort, technology, and legal structures to hide yourselves, in an industry that is in trouble because of people who do want to hide their privacy but cannot (revenge porn etc. all mentioned in the article), there is something amiss.
I read it as whilst trying to uncover the people behind those businesses, we found those spend effort to not be uncovered.
Like a reverse "I don't need privacy because I have nothing to hide" fallacy.
Only that the reverse isn't that much a fallacy: if you spend this amount of money, effort, technology, and legal structures to hide yourselves, in an industry that is in trouble because of people who do want to hide their privacy but cannot (revenge porn etc. all mentioned in the article), there is something amiss.
i think the main reason is tax avoidance. These porn sites have so much content anyway that they dont stand to gain from distributing revenge porn. Unless they are super-shady, they remove stuff with a DMCA request
Most companies involved in the seedier side of business keep a low profile to avoid attention though. Tube sites were "disruptive" in that they let users upload copyrighted material and said "it's not us!" so it's even less surprising they'd not want their backers to be easily traced, just look at companies like Tether which have equally shady corporate structures designed to shield their owners because they're operating in - at best - legally grey areas.
Fascinating story about the world's largest producer of amyl nitrates, the production of which has always been super-shadowy.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/davidmack/poppers-facto...
Fascinating story about the world's largest producer of amyl nitrates, the production of which has always been super-shadowy.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/davidmack/poppers-facto...
For the other reasons, might it have something to do with serving and profiting from non-consensual, violent and sometimes even illegal material? Like, the way it was (?) on pornhub before they were forced to remove videos from unverified accounts?
People can be pro-pornography and still be offended by those practices
People can be pro-pornography and still be offended by those practices
tbh i don't buy that unless they have clear statistics. Facebook users upload tons more content , and surely a lot of it non-consensual. Why would porn sites, especially the big ones, care about illegal content, they have tons of content already
I really think that consensual pornography should be allowed, but considering how much coercion and abuse there is in the field it's pretty obvious that there is no way around regulation.
I really hope that the EU finds a way to regulate the business without killing it. I think consensual sex work should be allowed, especially if it's in a way where sex workers are in control of their own image.
But if the big platforms all ignore the problem and refuse to proactively do something against abuse, then the religious fundamentalists will win. A lot of platforms have started outright banning pornography and/or sex work, which just pushes people to less scrupulous sites.
I really hope that the EU finds a way to regulate the business without killing it. I think consensual sex work should be allowed, especially if it's in a way where sex workers are in control of their own image.
But if the big platforms all ignore the problem and refuse to proactively do something against abuse, then the religious fundamentalists will win. A lot of platforms have started outright banning pornography and/or sex work, which just pushes people to less scrupulous sites.
As I understand it, professional studio pornography itself is regulated (but needs more), while streaming businesses that overwhelmingly rely on pirated content are even less regulated, to the extent that there is always an issue with revenge porn or abusive/non-legal uploads (this led to the blow-up with PornHub, which started using verified accounts, but users just flocked elsewhere because: piracy). The political football surrounding this has led to proposed bills that tend to increase surveillance powers / impact privacy, rather than mitigate issues like trafficking and abuse.
My impression is that the OnlyFans/Chaturbate approach to porn is more kosher to the extent that women overwhelmingly seem to work for themselves (verified accounts by default). They become "personalities". Coercion is still possible here, but really, it will never be zero. The surprising thing when watching docs for porn (like Hot Girls Wanted or whatever), even under a negative light, is there doesn't seem to be much persuasion needed; they answer ads that are clearly for porn, and get on a flight. Consent gets murkier surrounding the more extreme options available.
My impression is that the OnlyFans/Chaturbate approach to porn is more kosher to the extent that women overwhelmingly seem to work for themselves (verified accounts by default). They become "personalities". Coercion is still possible here, but really, it will never be zero. The surprising thing when watching docs for porn (like Hot Girls Wanted or whatever), even under a negative light, is there doesn't seem to be much persuasion needed; they answer ads that are clearly for porn, and get on a flight. Consent gets murkier surrounding the more extreme options available.
It's hard to regulate an industry that is largely reputation based.
A woman calling out an abuser usually leads to blacklisting in the industry.
There are exceptions of course when enough people speak up. Like when James Deen was accused of rape.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Deen#Rape_and_sexual_mis...
A woman calling out an abuser usually leads to blacklisting in the industry.
There are exceptions of course when enough people speak up. Like when James Deen was accused of rape.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Deen#Rape_and_sexual_mis...
How about requiring all work to be filmed and the footage deposited with some government agency and let anyone send anonymously reports to authorities so when abuse happens, the authorities can look for the abuse footage and call all the people who were there for questioning and to look for further instances of abuse. This way the models can "save face" when reporting what happened.
They already do this to a degree. Interviewing a model before and after the shoot to ask them if they are OK, no model says no because they want to get paid.
[deleted]
Consensual, sure, but the issues go much deeper. Take Youtube and the issues with copyrighted content, swap copyright for violence/rape/voyeurism/underage/revenge porn and the likes, then you start grasping how bad these issues get on porn sites.
Many issues boil down to the actresses being basically abused and swindled.
They are young, inexperienced, displosable and replaceable, have no inderstanding of law or their rights, unable to afford a lawyer, having no rights over the content, etc.
If we made it so that the actress would retain un-transferrable copyright over the final work, and could pull it from the platform at any time, for example in case the work results in deaththreats to them, the relationship would change overnight.
Would it be too risky to produce porn? So what, why should the 'actor' assume all the risk of reputation, defamation, injury, etc.? Transfer all the risk to the business, what, are we are gonna run out of porn?
They are young, inexperienced, displosable and replaceable, have no inderstanding of law or their rights, unable to afford a lawyer, having no rights over the content, etc.
If we made it so that the actress would retain un-transferrable copyright over the final work, and could pull it from the platform at any time, for example in case the work results in deaththreats to them, the relationship would change overnight.
Would it be too risky to produce porn? So what, why should the 'actor' assume all the risk of reputation, defamation, injury, etc.? Transfer all the risk to the business, what, are we are gonna run out of porn?
Will this get solved with Blockchain/NFTs? If every image is legered, it could also need consent forms tied to the it, which could also be legered.
> I really think that consensual pornography should be allowed,
and continue contributing to the decline of society, just great.
and continue contributing to the decline of society, just great.
> Ranked 10th most visited website in the world. Not even amazon.com gets this many clicks.
Not only is it ranked 10th but also xnxx.com is ranked 12th. Same ip block, same company I think. Amazon is 13 on that list and pornhub 17.
This stuff is popular.
https://www.similarweb.com/en/top-websites
Not only is it ranked 10th but also xnxx.com is ranked 12th. Same ip block, same company I think. Amazon is 13 on that list and pornhub 17.
This stuff is popular.
https://www.similarweb.com/en/top-websites
Wow, I'm amazed to see https://powerlanguage.co.uk/ listed as 49th on that list.
[deleted]
It's likely because that's where "Wordle" used to be hosted before it moved to NYT
I didn't see any mentions, but xvideos.com and others are already blacklisted from Google in some countries[1]. You never see results from the domains xvideos.com, xhamster.com or youporn.com, but mirrors and pornhub.com are still there.
The search pages contain reference that some results were removed "because that URL was reported as illegal under German youth protection laws"[2].
There's been news about a campaign about strict age checks[3], as mentioned in the article, but no reports of the final decision, and the list of sites doesn't match what is actually banned. I also don't see how pornhub.com is different from the others in this regard.
I wonder what else is blacklisted...
[1] They are blocked in Germany and Greece, but not in the US, UK, and France, from a quick VPN test.
[2] https://www.lumendatabase.org/notices/9415
[3] https://happymag.tv/pornhub-and-xhamster-germany/
The search pages contain reference that some results were removed "because that URL was reported as illegal under German youth protection laws"[2].
There's been news about a campaign about strict age checks[3], as mentioned in the article, but no reports of the final decision, and the list of sites doesn't match what is actually banned. I also don't see how pornhub.com is different from the others in this regard.
I wonder what else is blacklisted...
[1] They are blocked in Germany and Greece, but not in the US, UK, and France, from a quick VPN test.
[2] https://www.lumendatabase.org/notices/9415
[3] https://happymag.tv/pornhub-and-xhamster-germany/
Pornhub recently purged all unverified content from the platform whereas in other platforms you can still make account and upload whatever you want. Maybe it's because of that.
That would indeed fall under "German youth protection laws". But it doesn't match what the articles claimed, that the proposed law was to add stronger age checks. And it's a hilariously ineffective law if clicking the first google search result still takes you to the same website, but at a different domain.
The article mentions that sone sites were banned by Visa and Mastercard. This is quite distopian. If those sites are illegal, then they should be closed by the court.
Now it looks that credit card companies are moral police who can close whoever they dont like (mostly because of some bad press that looked like a "hit piece" by other porn site competition).
Payment processors should start be consodered utilities at this point. One cannot run a business without that and without a bank account. Yet those processors seem to think that they are moral police.
Now it looks that credit card companies are moral police who can close whoever they dont like (mostly because of some bad press that looked like a "hit piece" by other porn site competition).
Payment processors should start be consodered utilities at this point. One cannot run a business without that and without a bank account. Yet those processors seem to think that they are moral police.
>One cannot run a business without that and without a bank account. Yet those processors seem to think that they are moral police.
A fact that the US government has been most eager to exploit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Choke_Point).
Whether the most recent denial of service attacks by payment processing utilities on pornography-serving sites are back-channel mandates or not, of course, is still an open question- but to the citizen the result is the same.
A fact that the US government has been most eager to exploit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Choke_Point).
Whether the most recent denial of service attacks by payment processing utilities on pornography-serving sites are back-channel mandates or not, of course, is still an open question- but to the citizen the result is the same.
Payment processors aren't shutting them down because of morality. They're doing it because of high risk of chargebacks.
So they stopped taking payments for PornHub due to the high risk of chargebacks after people campaigned for them to stop taking PornHub payments for entirely different reasons. Right. That's one hell of a coincidence.
An expensive lawsuit is a no go.
There is another article concerning xvideos from netzpolitik.org. It's mostly about the same stuff that forced pornhub to remove videos by non-verified accounts (if my memory servers me well), including rape videos, hidden cam, underage videos etc.
https://netzpolitik.org/2022/how-xvideos-does-very-little-ag...
https://netzpolitik.org/2022/how-xvideos-does-very-little-ag...
> These days, authorities are also investigating XVideos. Survivors of sexualized violence are going public.
Are we going to sue Twitter too for keeping videos of killed Russian and Ukrainian people ? Because XVideos as far as I know is not only about sexualized violence.
Are we going to sue Twitter too for keeping videos of killed Russian and Ukrainian people ? Because XVideos as far as I know is not only about sexualized violence.
In fact, Twitter has both. A lot of porn on Twitter as well. Even underage in a sort of porn rings. I'm surprised it hasn't blown up in their face yet like it did with Vine. Maybe it's because it just hasn't reached the mainstream news threshold yet. Right now Twitter is being very quiet about this issue and just trying and failing to block accounts in time.
> I'm surprised it hasn't blown up in their face yet
There is an ongoing federal lawsuit against twitter for refusing to remove extortion generated child pornography when requested by the victim and their parent.
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/31302014/doe-v-twitter-...
There is an ongoing federal lawsuit against twitter for refusing to remove extortion generated child pornography when requested by the victim and their parent.
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/31302014/doe-v-twitter-...
> Right now Twitter is being very quiet about this issue and just trying and failing to block accounts in time.
Twitter is doing two things at the moment: first, offering the ability for uploaders to mark photos and videos as sensitive (nudity, violence, general [1]), and second, at least in Germany they're hiding accounts based on complaints of our youth protection agency [2].
[1]: https://www.androidpolice.com/twitter-adds-granular-content-...
[2]: https://www.wired.com/story/twitter-porn-block-germany-age-v...
Twitter is doing two things at the moment: first, offering the ability for uploaders to mark photos and videos as sensitive (nudity, violence, general [1]), and second, at least in Germany they're hiding accounts based on complaints of our youth protection agency [2].
[1]: https://www.androidpolice.com/twitter-adds-granular-content-...
[2]: https://www.wired.com/story/twitter-porn-block-germany-age-v...
People in that war aren't (primarily ... there's of course a propaganda angle, but that's secondary) killed for it to be shown on Twitter.
Women are being abused for putting the video on xvideo etc.
That's a relevant difference.
Women are being abused for putting the video on xvideo etc.
That's a relevant difference.
It's not just a platform, it's a producer too. They have many subsidiaries.
> Are we going to sue Twitter too for keeping videos of killed Russian and Ukrainian people ?
Well, what do you think should happen with that? You're asking an open-ended question but you're not actually making a point for yourself.
Well, what do you think should happen with that? You're asking an open-ended question but you're not actually making a point for yourself.
This exploitation wouldn't have a market without consumers. Same idea with drugs -- handle the demand side and the production should diminish. I feel bad for the women thrown into this. It's disgusting.
"Handle the demand" does a lot of work here. What's the demand in your opinion, and how would you handle it?
I don’t know exactly. There’s a difference between this exploitative shit and say only fans. Assuming a creator on only fans is not being extorted in any way and understands what they’re doing they get to keep much much more of the upside and have creative control over the content. I don’t see that here. So I guess handle the demand means shape or encourage consumption of more creator friendly content than this xvideos stuff.
>Web Group Czech, an inconspicuous name. „Web Group“ – that sounds like an average internet company
Not unusual for a porn-related company to have such a generic name. Another example, Pornhub is owned by MindGeek.
Not unusual for a porn-related company to have such a generic name. Another example, Pornhub is owned by MindGeek.
Do not watch porn it is terrible for your brain
Treat what led you to porn addiction. If you "just quit" you might diverge to other escapism methods, like drinking or gambling.
Don't just follow random internet advice or pseudo-science-riddled self-help books. Seek professional help, because nobody has to be alone in dealing with addiction.
Don't just follow random internet advice or pseudo-science-riddled self-help books. Seek professional help, because nobody has to be alone in dealing with addiction.
[deleted]
Almost anything can be "terrible for your brain" as people can become addicted to almost anything. It's more about the individual taking the substance than it is about the addictive substance itself.
That said, thinking about porn as "a business" it seems like things don't add up. There are allegations about major providers being gargantuan money laundering operations. In the absence of actual facts I am inclined to believe that. It doesn't seem possible for them to grow to such scale solely on subscriptions and sex-advert related stuff.
That said, thinking about porn as "a business" it seems like things don't add up. There are allegations about major providers being gargantuan money laundering operations. In the absence of actual facts I am inclined to believe that. It doesn't seem possible for them to grow to such scale solely on subscriptions and sex-advert related stuff.
Porn is mostly harmless if you don't spiral.
I disagree. Porn has long term effects on the brain. It desensitizes the mind to what the reality of sex by showing a fake reality that is maximized to drive horniness. It plays on the fantasies of the mind and makes them into a reality with the camera. I have completely stopped watching and noticed a great deal of benefit in my sex life and I am not some stereotypical internet porn addict. Porn requires a great deal of responsibility in consumption and regulation.
I wouldn’t rely on a book essentially filled with pseudoscience and wishful thinking.
Their website is also awfully militant, perhaps even worse.
Their website is also awfully militant, perhaps even worse.
Sounds like you haven't read it, or bothered to look at the studies referenced within. There's plenty of research and studies showing its effect on brain matter and rewiring of the brain structure. It's akin to substance abuse. Feel free to explain to me how all of these studies are wrong.
Toxic people can reference valid studies and make valid points. That doesn't make them non-toxic, and neither does it invalidate the studies.
I'm not sure how this book is toxic, or the people involved in authoring it. Any snippets of the material within that you think is toxic? Could we also define toxic in this context?
True, I haven’t read the book. I have been following the controversy, though.
My gripe revolves around the fact that the author has no relevant training in the matter, but signed a highly controversial paper along with an ophthalmologist [1]. This paper was then used as the basis for both his book and his TEDx talks.
Now, I’m not going to pretend that I am a psychologist myself, but for several years I authored a blog that analysed pseudoscience and cult beliefs, and the whole website and the associated Reward Foundation reek of pseudoscience cliche:
* They frequently rely on self references, i.e. support their conclusions using their own prior work.
* Misrepresent scientific consensus, e.g alleged that “porn addiction” is part of the DSM-5.
* Any criticism on their work has been ignored, or blamed on personal vendettas or disinformation campaigns (see their opinions on Nicole Prause).
Frankly, to me this looks like just another China Study.
[1] https://retractionwatch.com/2018/06/13/journal-corrects-but-...
My gripe revolves around the fact that the author has no relevant training in the matter, but signed a highly controversial paper along with an ophthalmologist [1]. This paper was then used as the basis for both his book and his TEDx talks.
Now, I’m not going to pretend that I am a psychologist myself, but for several years I authored a blog that analysed pseudoscience and cult beliefs, and the whole website and the associated Reward Foundation reek of pseudoscience cliche:
* They frequently rely on self references, i.e. support their conclusions using their own prior work.
* Misrepresent scientific consensus, e.g alleged that “porn addiction” is part of the DSM-5.
* Any criticism on their work has been ignored, or blamed on personal vendettas or disinformation campaigns (see their opinions on Nicole Prause).
Frankly, to me this looks like just another China Study.
[1] https://retractionwatch.com/2018/06/13/journal-corrects-but-...
> My gripe revolves around the fact that the author has no relevant training in the matter, but signed a highly controversial paper along with an ophthalmologist.
Rand Paul? :)
Rand Paul? :)
Says who? You?
Consenting adults are capable of making their own decisions.
Doing anything excessively can have a negative impact on one's psyche: video games, movies, gambling, sex, food, workaholics, ..
Porn and sexual gratification has been with us since the dawn of mankind , perhaps it's time to stop waging war against the naked human body.
Consenting adults are capable of making their own decisions.
Doing anything excessively can have a negative impact on one's psyche: video games, movies, gambling, sex, food, workaholics, ..
Porn and sexual gratification has been with us since the dawn of mankind , perhaps it's time to stop waging war against the naked human body.
> Consenting adults are capable of making their own decisions.
and some of those decisions are stupid.
I am not siding with OP, just outlining he could have written 'don't stick your hand into a blender', it's a reasonable reccomendation.
and some of those decisions are stupid.
I am not siding with OP, just outlining he could have written 'don't stick your hand into a blender', it's a reasonable reccomendation.
Kinda surprised they haven’t gone full verified
I don't think it's common for porn websites to do these sort of verifications. Also, who would trust a sketchy porn website with their id? Remember the Ashley Madison incident?
I believe they mean full verification for uploaders (as PornHub has been pressured into), not for viewers.
Some radio host / comic made a bit about these being banned in France, or in the process of maybe being banned. :)
vbaguru(1)
logifail(2)
> Nine minutes, 93 seconds, orgasm. This is the average visit duration of the world’s biggest porn site XVideos
Slightly sus from the get-go.
Slightly sus from the get-go.
I have a hard time feeling sympathy with people who tries to include non-violence actions as violence. Either it's violence or it's not, stop trying to muddy the water.
Since I think those people already lie in the first accusation I wonder what else they may be lying about.
Since I think those people already lie in the first accusation I wonder what else they may be lying about.
> Until late last year, it probably didn’t take more than an email address to post photos and videos on XVideos. Accessible to a potential audience of millions. These were very low hurdles for people who wanted to distribute recordings of others without their consent, so-called voyeur recordings or „revenge porn.“
So what? Even if I'd require e.g. a phone number of every uploader it wouldn't change a thing. XVideos would still only be able to react, not preact. Content would still remain online, until someone reports it. If someone uploads your porn tape and you're the original author, just send a DMCA and it gets taken down. No problemo.
So what? Even if I'd require e.g. a phone number of every uploader it wouldn't change a thing. XVideos would still only be able to react, not preact. Content would still remain online, until someone reports it. If someone uploads your porn tape and you're the original author, just send a DMCA and it gets taken down. No problemo.
> XVideos would still only be able to react, not preact.
The less anonymous the poster is, the easier it gets for law enforcement to find them and enforce the laws against posting revenge porn or unconsented videos. Once a video is marked that way, it's relatively trivial to remove other instances of it.
The less anonymous the poster is, the easier it gets for law enforcement to find them and enforce the laws against posting revenge porn or unconsented videos. Once a video is marked that way, it's relatively trivial to remove other instances of it.
Surely national ID cards will help against these porn videos. Like they did help against terrorism. And credit card fraud. Or cheating in Chinese video games.
IDs don't prove your real identity, especially online.
IDs don't prove your real identity, especially online.
Who mentioned national ID cards?
The article complains about the low hurdles which xvideos has for creating a new account (they only require an email).
I can’t think of anything else than phone numbers and IDs which they could require for uploaders. Do you have any other ideas?
I can’t think of anything else than phone numbers and IDs which they could require for uploaders. Do you have any other ideas?
A phone number helps a bit. In many places buying a handset or a SIM will leave some paper track the police can follow.
> The less anonymous the poster is, the easier it gets for law enforcement
But this would have a horrifying, chilling effect on marginalized communities. Anonymity allows for one to publish marginalized interest works and trans-oriented contents.
This is especially important for less-than-safe jurisdictions, for which even bog-standard sex workers may well find themselves in the crosshairs of a fascist government, or even grass-roots persecution from far-right sources using hacked data! It is, after all, only a matter of time for most any web site in this day and age for a user-data compromise.
These kinds of policies lead to harassment, violence, and imprisonment for many.
But this would have a horrifying, chilling effect on marginalized communities. Anonymity allows for one to publish marginalized interest works and trans-oriented contents.
This is especially important for less-than-safe jurisdictions, for which even bog-standard sex workers may well find themselves in the crosshairs of a fascist government, or even grass-roots persecution from far-right sources using hacked data! It is, after all, only a matter of time for most any web site in this day and age for a user-data compromise.
These kinds of policies lead to harassment, violence, and imprisonment for many.
Agreed but the lack of these kinds of policies also lead to harassment and violence for many, so it's clear a discussion needs to be had.
I would choose reducing real harm caused by the actual distribution of abuse material (anyone can be abused in this way even in marginalised communities) if the only cost was potentially chilling the distribution of trans-oriented adult content. Seems like a small price to pay to reduce the effects of one of the worst things the internet has enabled.
> If someone uploads your porn tape and you're the original author, just send a DMCA and it gets taken down. No problemo.
Unfortunately, it's not as easy. The tube sites have understaffed support and, as the credit card processing ban on Pornhub has shown, consistently made life hell for affected people. These sites are blatantly ignoring even the most basic requirements of being good citizens of the Internet.
Unfortunately, it's not as easy. The tube sites have understaffed support and, as the credit card processing ban on Pornhub has shown, consistently made life hell for affected people. These sites are blatantly ignoring even the most basic requirements of being good citizens of the Internet.
> I’ve been nursing a serious prolapse injury from one shoot for Legal Porno. It was supposed to be one of 4. I’ve been dealing with blood and shit since the scene. Can’t believe they can sell my pain online but they can
Then the bits about applying lidocaine to anuses to help them get through the shoot... I'm gobsmacked... if you need a local anaesthetic, it somewhat implies that you're doing dangerous stuff.
LegalPorno (now renamed AnalVids apparently) is also owned by the people who own XVideos.
https://denikn.cz/552186/i-was-bleeding-and-ended-up-in-hosp...