iPhone 4S Pre-Orders Top One Million in First 24 Hours(apple.com)
apple.com
iPhone 4S Pre-Orders Top One Million in First 24 Hours
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/10/10iPhone-4S-Pre-Orders-Top-One-Million-in-First-24-Hours.html
138 comments
There was a time, not too long ago, when Apple stuff was legitimately a worse deal than the equivalent brown-box product. It got ingrained into our cultural consciousness: Macs are overpriced, they underperform. They claim to put design first, but they still break. Not worth it unless you really like the OS.
That hasn't been true for a while, of course; Apple has made all the deals they needed to be competitive or untouchable on price and performance, and their revolutionary design philosophy has outgrown puberty and started changing the world.
But, of course, the mythos continues.
That hasn't been true for a while, of course; Apple has made all the deals they needed to be competitive or untouchable on price and performance, and their revolutionary design philosophy has outgrown puberty and started changing the world.
But, of course, the mythos continues.
What drives some people away is the price tag, regardless of quality and features.
I just dropped $1800 and change on an iMac, which really doesn't have any more mojo than an equivalent PC.
If I need support, someone will say: "How can I help you?" no matter how inane the question, instead of (Linux) "RTFMNoob" and (Windows): "Google, install driver, visit MSDN, etc.".
The difference (in my mind) is that I didn't buy a personal computer, I bought a Mac. I didn't buy what I needed, I bought what I want.
I just dropped $1800 and change on an iMac, which really doesn't have any more mojo than an equivalent PC.
If I need support, someone will say: "How can I help you?" no matter how inane the question, instead of (Linux) "RTFMNoob" and (Windows): "Google, install driver, visit MSDN, etc.".
The difference (in my mind) is that I didn't buy a personal computer, I bought a Mac. I didn't buy what I needed, I bought what I want.
> I didn't buy what I needed, I bought what I want.
The funny thing is that's the complete opposite to what Apple retail employees are taught. Sell what the customer needs; nothing more, nothing less
The funny thing is that's the complete opposite to what Apple retail employees are taught. Sell what the customer needs; nothing more, nothing less
I'd say that just highlights Apple's 0th law, that one thing only they seem to get: form is function, what you want is what you need. If it doesn't do what you want, it's insufficient for your needs. Conversely, if it does more than you need, you don't really want it, you just think you do.
This is so true. While i'd love to have a new 27" IMac I just can't justify getting rid of my 3GHz 2008 since it still works so well. It's like I just took it out of the box.
Apple also does not bother to compete in the discount PC area. They just don't make a $250 desktop, or a $500 laptop, and Compaq and Dell do. So if that's what you are interested in, Apple definitely feels too expensive.
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You really can't imagine why anyone might prefer the Samsung Galaxy S II (for example) to an iPhone?
How about (straight off the top of my head)
Better Linux connectivity.
Ability to easily copy files on and off the phone.
Ability to sync podcasts directly on the phone, without having to connect to a computer with iTunes (not used an iPhone for a while, they might have finally fixed this).
Ability to run software Apple doesn't like (emulators).
We haven't really seen the AI yet, I remain to be convinced, and I don't care about the camera.
Also, you mention price point. The iPhone (particularly the 4S) is about the most expensive phone around at the moment. In general of course the most expensive phone with have the fastest processor, that's hardly suprising.
How about (straight off the top of my head)
Better Linux connectivity.
Ability to easily copy files on and off the phone.
Ability to sync podcasts directly on the phone, without having to connect to a computer with iTunes (not used an iPhone for a while, they might have finally fixed this).
Ability to run software Apple doesn't like (emulators).
We haven't really seen the AI yet, I remain to be convinced, and I don't care about the camera.
Also, you mention price point. The iPhone (particularly the 4S) is about the most expensive phone around at the moment. In general of course the most expensive phone with have the fastest processor, that's hardly suprising.
> Better Linux connectivity.
Very few people actually run Linux on their desktops. If you are one of those people, then yes, I can see this being an advantage. Otherwise... not so much.
I'm a Linux guy and when I had an iPhone, I used to just reboot to my Windows partition to sync my phone. I'd do it ~once per week or so (to sync up with the latest podcasts).
> Ability to easily copy files on and off the phone.
To be honest, I have found this to be more problematic on Android. iTunes synced my music/photos/etc and it Just Worked (tm).
On my Android phone, when I rsync my music/photos/etc from my Linux partition to my phone's SD card, it clobbers everything due to the FS being FAT32 (case insensitive). It's a nightmare to keep things in sync and it takes longer.
> Ability to sync podcasts directly on the phone, without having to connect to a computer with iTunes (not used an iPhone for a while, they might have finally fixed this).
Yes, iPhone has this now. It can both sync with your desktop wirelessly and download the latest podcasts via the iTunes app on your phone if you aren't anywhere near your desktop w/ iTunes.
> Ability to run software Apple doesn't like (emulators).
Jailbreak? I mean, ya gotta do that with Android too...
> We haven't really seen the AI yet, I remain to be convinced, and I don't care about the camera.
I'm skeptical as well, but if it works anywhere near as well as advertised, it will be awesome.
Packing more pixels into such a tiny sensor isn't really going to improve the quality of the photos. However, more sensitivity might...
From what I understand, they've done both... so maybe it'll help or maybe it won't.
The HDR photography that iPhone 4 supported was awesome and makes me regret getting a Samsung Galaxy S which, quite frankly, sucks hardcore in every way.
But I'm a Linux guy so I got an Android... won't be making that mistake again :-\
> Also, you mention price point. The iPhone (particularly the 4S) is about the most expensive phone around at the moment. In general of course the most expensive phone with have the fastest processor, that's hardly suprising.
Equivalent Android's aren't typically much (if at all) cheaper, though (if you buy them outright, at least). Of course, the carriers do seem to subsidize Android phones a lot more than iPhones (which is how you can get most Android phones for cheap-cheap with a 2 year contract).
Very few people actually run Linux on their desktops. If you are one of those people, then yes, I can see this being an advantage. Otherwise... not so much.
I'm a Linux guy and when I had an iPhone, I used to just reboot to my Windows partition to sync my phone. I'd do it ~once per week or so (to sync up with the latest podcasts).
> Ability to easily copy files on and off the phone.
To be honest, I have found this to be more problematic on Android. iTunes synced my music/photos/etc and it Just Worked (tm).
On my Android phone, when I rsync my music/photos/etc from my Linux partition to my phone's SD card, it clobbers everything due to the FS being FAT32 (case insensitive). It's a nightmare to keep things in sync and it takes longer.
> Ability to sync podcasts directly on the phone, without having to connect to a computer with iTunes (not used an iPhone for a while, they might have finally fixed this).
Yes, iPhone has this now. It can both sync with your desktop wirelessly and download the latest podcasts via the iTunes app on your phone if you aren't anywhere near your desktop w/ iTunes.
> Ability to run software Apple doesn't like (emulators).
Jailbreak? I mean, ya gotta do that with Android too...
> We haven't really seen the AI yet, I remain to be convinced, and I don't care about the camera.
I'm skeptical as well, but if it works anywhere near as well as advertised, it will be awesome.
Packing more pixels into such a tiny sensor isn't really going to improve the quality of the photos. However, more sensitivity might...
From what I understand, they've done both... so maybe it'll help or maybe it won't.
The HDR photography that iPhone 4 supported was awesome and makes me regret getting a Samsung Galaxy S which, quite frankly, sucks hardcore in every way.
But I'm a Linux guy so I got an Android... won't be making that mistake again :-\
> Also, you mention price point. The iPhone (particularly the 4S) is about the most expensive phone around at the moment. In general of course the most expensive phone with have the fastest processor, that's hardly suprising.
Equivalent Android's aren't typically much (if at all) cheaper, though (if you buy them outright, at least). Of course, the carriers do seem to subsidize Android phones a lot more than iPhones (which is how you can get most Android phones for cheap-cheap with a 2 year contract).
Just one comment on Jailbreaking.
Just this week, I happened to get an iPad at work. Turns out, the only way I can jailbreak it is by a "tethered" jailbreak, which means (as far as I understand) my iPad has to be attached to my computer whenever I reboot it, else it won't work properly.
We also have a 3G iPad 2, and it seems that can't be jailbroken at all at the moment.
So jailbreaking really doesn't seem to be the "magic solution" to the Apple walled garden. Also, note I don't have to jailbreak to run software Google doesn't like, just go to the webpage and download the package, rather than get it through google market. You can also jailbreak for root access, but I've never felt a need.
I will admit, the argument between Android and Apple is slim, but personally I see it mostly as a "one or the other", not "Apple is superior to Android in every way", as the opening poster seemed to claim.
Just this week, I happened to get an iPad at work. Turns out, the only way I can jailbreak it is by a "tethered" jailbreak, which means (as far as I understand) my iPad has to be attached to my computer whenever I reboot it, else it won't work properly.
We also have a 3G iPad 2, and it seems that can't be jailbroken at all at the moment.
So jailbreaking really doesn't seem to be the "magic solution" to the Apple walled garden. Also, note I don't have to jailbreak to run software Google doesn't like, just go to the webpage and download the package, rather than get it through google market. You can also jailbreak for root access, but I've never felt a need.
I will admit, the argument between Android and Apple is slim, but personally I see it mostly as a "one or the other", not "Apple is superior to Android in every way", as the opening poster seemed to claim.
More anecdotal commentary: I have an iPad 2. It's jailbroken. I haven't rebooted it since the jailbreak, which is probably going on several months now.
Given iOS's stability (even while jailbroken), the tethering is an annoyance, but certainly not a dealbreaker.
Given iOS's stability (even while jailbroken), the tethering is an annoyance, but certainly not a dealbreaker.
> Very few people actually run Linux on their desktops.
But you forgot, the original post rhetorically questioned why the 'technocrati' pick another phone. There is a disproportional number of technocrati that run Linux on their Desktop perhaps?
But you forgot, the original post rhetorically questioned why the 'technocrati' pick another phone. There is a disproportional number of technocrati that run Linux on their Desktop perhaps?
I thought the original post was questioning why the "technorati" pick the iPhone as being worse for everyone. I don't think anyone takes issue with "I prefer an AndroidMark 42 to the iPhone 4S". What we take issue with is statements like, "Why would anyone buy an iPhone 4S instead of the AndroidMark 42, which is clearly superior in every way?"
My mom could care less about better Linux connectivity. My girlfriend doesn't care about copying files on/off the phone. My aunt doesn't care about running emulators.
You know what they do care about? A nice camera. An easier way of interacting with the phone (Siri).
You know what they do care about? A nice camera. An easier way of interacting with the phone (Siri).
I think what he is trying to say is that some people would prefer what he's talking about, and that the iPhone isn't one size fits all.
Why does this post got downvoted? Does it violate any rules on hacker news? Or just because here is a big Apple circle-jerk going on?
(written on my macbook)
(written on my macbook)
Do you know half of iPhone users never connect to computer once activated, that means iPhone works totally fine without iTunes for ordinary people. Not to mention iOS5 now support wifi sync and iCloud backup. You may don't care camera, but one of my friend have 12G pictures and videos on iPod touch, it's crucial to users.
Ordinary people don't need Linux connectivity, file copying, emulators, they need a Phone which just works.
Ordinary people don't need Linux connectivity, file copying, emulators, they need a Phone which just works.
All of those are things regular people - i.e. not hacker news readers - don't give a toss about.
But 'regular' people are loving the Galaxy S 2, I guess because of it's large and vibrant screen, and it's thinner (to hold) compared to the iPhone 4[1].
I really like the Galaxy S 2 and I wish so hard that Android was actually polished to the degree that iOS is. My iPhone bores and I love the screen on the Galaxy S, yet I know I will miss out on OS updates and being able to smoothly rotate the screen. The day android is as polished as iOS is is the day I switch.
[1] I'm not sure if it is actually thinner than the iPhone 4, but it feels thinner, much in the same way the 2nd gen iPod touch was thinner than the previous gen)
I really like the Galaxy S 2 and I wish so hard that Android was actually polished to the degree that iOS is. My iPhone bores and I love the screen on the Galaxy S, yet I know I will miss out on OS updates and being able to smoothly rotate the screen. The day android is as polished as iOS is is the day I switch.
[1] I'm not sure if it is actually thinner than the iPhone 4, but it feels thinner, much in the same way the 2nd gen iPod touch was thinner than the previous gen)
> But 'regular' people are loving the Galaxy S 2
Did Galaxy S2 break iPhone 4's sale record?
Did Galaxy S2 break iPhone 4's sale record?
Heck, did it break the iPhone 3GS sales record? If I remember correctly, the 3GS has been the second best-selling phone in the US for the past year.
That's not really a fair comparison since there is only one iPhone 4 and countless Android manufacturers.
Countless Galaxy S2 manufacturers, you mean?...
No, I meant Android models. People who want the latest iOS, get the latest iPhone. People who want latest Android won't necessarily get a Galaxy S2 because there are are many other new Android phones. So I'm saying comparing the iPhone sales to the Galaxy S2 sales isn't fair.
You mean not fair to iPhone 4 right?
> But 'regular' people are loving the Galaxy S 2
Are you sure of that? I can't imagine it's true, or there would be a hell of a lot more sales of it than there are...
Are you sure of that? I can't imagine it's true, or there would be a hell of a lot more sales of it than there are...
Do you think that might have something to do with the variety of models available? That people are more free to pick what hits their aesthetic desires, as well as form, functionality, features?
Whereas with the iPhone, you basically have "the iPhone". So of course sales are consolidated into that one model.
Whereas with the iPhone, you basically have "the iPhone". So of course sales are consolidated into that one model.
The Galaxy S II is the best selling phone in several countries, in others it's a close 2nd to the iPhone 4. I'm not sure it's possible for it to sell a "hell of a lot more" unless every single person bought one, (would you make the same argument for the iPhone 4?).
Samsung have just overtaken Apple in total smartphone sales, though they have a few more models than Apple. But if you look at the trajectory (they came from nothing in the last year or so) it's only a matter of time before their flagship outsells Apple's in more countries than it already does.
Samsung have just overtaken Apple in total smartphone sales, though they have a few more models than Apple. But if you look at the trajectory (they came from nothing in the last year or so) it's only a matter of time before their flagship outsells Apple's in more countries than it already does.
The Galaxy S2 sold 10 million phones worldwide even before it went on sale in the US. It's pretty much the bestselling Android phone. So this is a pretty silly comment, although fairly typical for iPhone users who aren't up to date on Android phones.
I found one article about the sales of the S2 from an "android news" site, that indicated it was selling 2-3 million a month. I'm sure it is the best selling android phone, and I say anything that sells more than a million units in a year is a "hit", but that's not a lot of sales compared to the iPhone. It certainly hasn't broken out into the mainstream like the iPhone has.
Look at the comment I was responding to, that people must not be loving the Galaxy S2 because "there would be a hell of a lot more sales of it than there are..."
If there were essentially no alternatives, as with apple, sales would undoubtedly be much higher, wouldn't you agree?
In my experience, yes. I a lot of people I work with (shifty at KFC) and live in my dorm get more excited about the Galaxy as apposed to the iPhone. Those who have the GS2 love and live by it.
> The day android is as polished as iOS is is the day I switch.
I look forward to having you in the iOS community for a long, long time then.
I look forward to having you in the iOS community for a long, long time then.
It is about a milimeter thinner than iPhone.
0.6mm at its thinnest point, and 0.5mm thicker at its thickest point (the latter being a sticking point, UK's Advertising Standards Authority ruled against Samsung's claim of thinnest smartphone on the market on these grounds)
The day android is as polished as iOS is is the day I switch.
You ... and everybody else! That rather undermines your defense of the S2.
You ... and everybody else! That rather undermines your defense of the S2.
I am so fucking tired of this argument. "Users don't care" - well you know what? I AM a user. And if a phone can't do X it does matter for me, even if you or your grandma might not care. It's downright insulting saying that I am somehow different from regular people, because I have flaws with Apple products.
> Ability to sync podcasts directly on the phone, without having to connect to a computer with iTunes (not used an iPhone for a while, they might have finally fixed this).
Yeah, this has been fixed for about 2 years. Has to be over wifi though because of the 3G download limits (most podcasts are over 20mb).
Yeah, this has been fixed for about 2 years. Has to be over wifi though because of the 3G download limits (most podcasts are over 20mb).
I'm sure the S II is great, but some of these problems are pretty trivial in iOS. Dropbox, for example, handles all of my file transfer needs pretty easily and iCloud looks like it will make anything difficult now (photo/video transfer, which required that horrible sync process) automatic. There are great podcast apps on iOS - I stream all of my podcast subscriptions using Instacast (.99).
> Better Linux connectivity.
Doesn't matter. No one uses Linux.
> Ability to easily copy files on and off the phone.
Doesn't matter. Everyone uses email for a file store.
> Ability to sync podcasts directly on the phone, without having to connect to a computer with iTunes (not used an iPhone for a while, they might have finally fixed this).
They fixed this, also, doesn't matter, no one listens to podcasts.
> Ability to run software Apple doesn't like (emulators).
Doesn't matter.
If you want to make an argument that Android is a better purchase option for mass market consumers, you'll need an argument that actually represents the mass market. I can't think of any argument, as Apple alternatives are always better: better media library, better app library, better product lifetime support (both in terms of software updates, product maintenance), better hardware, better (consistent) software, better branding. These are the things that matter to people.
Doesn't matter. No one uses Linux.
> Ability to easily copy files on and off the phone.
Doesn't matter. Everyone uses email for a file store.
> Ability to sync podcasts directly on the phone, without having to connect to a computer with iTunes (not used an iPhone for a while, they might have finally fixed this).
They fixed this, also, doesn't matter, no one listens to podcasts.
> Ability to run software Apple doesn't like (emulators).
Doesn't matter.
If you want to make an argument that Android is a better purchase option for mass market consumers, you'll need an argument that actually represents the mass market. I can't think of any argument, as Apple alternatives are always better: better media library, better app library, better product lifetime support (both in terms of software updates, product maintenance), better hardware, better (consistent) software, better branding. These are the things that matter to people.
> If you want to make an argument that Android is a better purchase option for mass market consumers, you'll need an argument that actually represents the mass market.
Who wants to do that? The thread parent post said "it is beyond me how anyone can argue that this is not the best smartphone on the market." That is very, very far from arguing which phone is the best option for mass market consumers. For someone running Linux, it is very easy to argue this is not the best smartphone on the market.
Who wants to do that? The thread parent post said "it is beyond me how anyone can argue that this is not the best smartphone on the market." That is very, very far from arguing which phone is the best option for mass market consumers. For someone running Linux, it is very easy to argue this is not the best smartphone on the market.
Resale value is also good for Apple kit.
>Even before this announcement, it is beyond me how anyone can argue that this is not the best smartphone on the market.
Because, just as people complain about irrational "fanboys", there are also irrational "haters". If Android was a huge, old-style brick phone with a pull-out antenna windows CE style interface Apple haters would be talking about how great it is and how much better it is than the 4S.
Because, just as people complain about irrational "fanboys", there are also irrational "haters". If Android was a huge, old-style brick phone with a pull-out antenna windows CE style interface Apple haters would be talking about how great it is and how much better it is than the 4S.
Similarly, there are a number of people who would love a "a huge, old-style brick phone with a pull-out antenna windows CE style interface" and how it was better than the Galaxy S II or Prime just because it was made by Apple.
Different strokes for different folks. The iPhone is a great phone, but it's silly to suggest the iPhone is one size fits all.
PS: I chose a Windows Phone. Though, I'd be on an iPhone if Mango (Windows Phone 7.5) wasn't around.
PS: I chose a Windows Phone. Though, I'd be on an iPhone if Mango (Windows Phone 7.5) wasn't around.
I might agree, it looks like a nice phone. Possibly better than the Android competition.
But the underlying issue I have with the iPhone, is the lack of freedom I get with it. I don't want to (and more or less can't) be restricted to iTunes, and feel I shouldn't have to void my warranty to use the device how I see fit.
But the underlying issue I have with the iPhone, is the lack of freedom I get with it. I don't want to (and more or less can't) be restricted to iTunes, and feel I shouldn't have to void my warranty to use the device how I see fit.
I don't understand this "lack of freedom" (or the "androids more open" mantra). I rarely use iTunes myself, and don't feel "restricted" to it. (unless you feel that using iTunes to sync is "restrictive"... and even if that's the case, syncing is now doable via iCloud.)
I guess if you want to do hardware hacking, you'll always be voiding your warranty. I don't see how you'd have to void it to use an iPhone how you see fit.
I run whatever software I want on mine, open source stuff, stuff that's never seen the appstore... and that's without jailbreaking it.
As I understand it, on android, you'd have to jailbreak it.
If the complaint is that apple doesn't allow malware on the AppStore, I think that's a good thing. Its not like Apple only allows software Apple thinks is good on the store. (though I do wish they would be more restrictive in that regard.)
Always I see the claim that android is "open" or the assertion that the iPhone causes a "lack of freedom".... but rarely are there any specifics. This forces me to guess what you're talking about in order to argue a different point. You're now in a position to say that all of my examples were not what you were talking about... which is the rhetorical value of vague complaints.
I guess if you want to do hardware hacking, you'll always be voiding your warranty. I don't see how you'd have to void it to use an iPhone how you see fit.
I run whatever software I want on mine, open source stuff, stuff that's never seen the appstore... and that's without jailbreaking it.
As I understand it, on android, you'd have to jailbreak it.
If the complaint is that apple doesn't allow malware on the AppStore, I think that's a good thing. Its not like Apple only allows software Apple thinks is good on the store. (though I do wish they would be more restrictive in that regard.)
Always I see the claim that android is "open" or the assertion that the iPhone causes a "lack of freedom".... but rarely are there any specifics. This forces me to guess what you're talking about in order to argue a different point. You're now in a position to say that all of my examples were not what you were talking about... which is the rhetorical value of vague complaints.
> I run whatever software I want on mine, open source stuff, stuff that's never seen the appstore... and that's without jailbreaking it.
I'm guessing this is due to a developer certificate? I don't think it's reasonable to expect even power users to jump through all the Xcode hoops (and pay a $99 freedom tax) in order to run unapproved software.
> Its not like Apple only allows software Apple thinks is good on the store.
Curiously enough, if Apple were to allow sideloading, they could get far pickier about what goes in the App Store, which would be a better experience for 99% of customers, and potentially result in more total sales by creating an expectation of quality. There is much less shoddy junk in the Mac App Store for this very reason.
All that said, I've never run into anything I wish I could do that I can't, and so even though I've jailbroken my iDevices 5+ times, I always end up undoing it with the next upgrade.
I'm guessing this is due to a developer certificate? I don't think it's reasonable to expect even power users to jump through all the Xcode hoops (and pay a $99 freedom tax) in order to run unapproved software.
> Its not like Apple only allows software Apple thinks is good on the store.
Curiously enough, if Apple were to allow sideloading, they could get far pickier about what goes in the App Store, which would be a better experience for 99% of customers, and potentially result in more total sales by creating an expectation of quality. There is much less shoddy junk in the Mac App Store for this very reason.
All that said, I've never run into anything I wish I could do that I can't, and so even though I've jailbroken my iDevices 5+ times, I always end up undoing it with the next upgrade.
One example I can think of is apps like Torrent-Fu, where I can scan a movie barcode with my android and it will download on my home uTorrent. Obvious piracy, which is why it would never make it the app store, but this is just one example of the superior freedom one can enjoy on android.
OTOH, how many of the people who are watching and commenting on Apple keynotes have even tried the latest Android phones?
I watched the keynote, and as someone who does almost all his purchasing online, found myself in Best Buy the other day. So we wandered over to the phones and checked out a Windows phone and an HTC which were right next to each other.
The windows phone was pretty interesting. It took my partner a couple tries to figure out how to use it (I'd seen demos online so I was more prepared for the UI) but they eventually got it. Still, the UI was broken in some very weird ways-- for instance, going to the datebook app, you could easily scroll from day to day, but what if you wanted to go a year into the future or the past? (The phone was set for last year)... eventually we were able to figure out how to bring up a calendar view that showed months at a time, but tapping on a particular month or day didn't bring you to that particular month or day's agenda! Never did figure that out.
I give Microsoft credit here for trying to come up with something new. I think in a couple years, they will have something very usable, and it certainly is very different and potentially innovative. (Didn't get to use the device long enough to see if it was different for difference sake, or if there was a fundamental UI insight behind the way it worked.)
Then we picked up the HTC. It was pretty eye opening. I did like the animated background, that's cool. The icons are fugly, though. Its like someone who didn't know what they were doing tried to copy an iPhone. The device was really cheap plastic. The touch screen wasn't very reliable, and the apps were ... poor at best. I was surprised at how fiddly everything was... you couldn't just launch an app and immediately know how to use it. On the iPhone (and windows phone it seemed) there are standard controls and paradigms, like the tab bar and swiping left-right. I'm sure android has these features as well, but they aren't really supposed to be features... they're the common commands that Apps should share so that the user spends time comprehending your app and what it means, not trying to figure out how to get to the next page, or whatever.
I don't know, or care, whether this was the "latest" android phone. In fact, replacing an iPhone every 2 years is a much better experience than having to keep up with a marketplace of phones that changes every three months... and given that Apple always delivers a superlative experience, while the android hardware market is competing more on headline features, there's a huge incentive for android makers to put in some feature (like LTE, or a power hungry processor) that undermines a more important, but less exciting capability, like battery life. Trying to keep on top of all that, making sure I'm not getting screwed is more effort than I want to spend when shopping for a phone.... especially when I can just buy the latest iPhone and get the best experience, and know I'm not going to regret my purchase.
The windows phone was pretty interesting. It took my partner a couple tries to figure out how to use it (I'd seen demos online so I was more prepared for the UI) but they eventually got it. Still, the UI was broken in some very weird ways-- for instance, going to the datebook app, you could easily scroll from day to day, but what if you wanted to go a year into the future or the past? (The phone was set for last year)... eventually we were able to figure out how to bring up a calendar view that showed months at a time, but tapping on a particular month or day didn't bring you to that particular month or day's agenda! Never did figure that out.
I give Microsoft credit here for trying to come up with something new. I think in a couple years, they will have something very usable, and it certainly is very different and potentially innovative. (Didn't get to use the device long enough to see if it was different for difference sake, or if there was a fundamental UI insight behind the way it worked.)
Then we picked up the HTC. It was pretty eye opening. I did like the animated background, that's cool. The icons are fugly, though. Its like someone who didn't know what they were doing tried to copy an iPhone. The device was really cheap plastic. The touch screen wasn't very reliable, and the apps were ... poor at best. I was surprised at how fiddly everything was... you couldn't just launch an app and immediately know how to use it. On the iPhone (and windows phone it seemed) there are standard controls and paradigms, like the tab bar and swiping left-right. I'm sure android has these features as well, but they aren't really supposed to be features... they're the common commands that Apps should share so that the user spends time comprehending your app and what it means, not trying to figure out how to get to the next page, or whatever.
I don't know, or care, whether this was the "latest" android phone. In fact, replacing an iPhone every 2 years is a much better experience than having to keep up with a marketplace of phones that changes every three months... and given that Apple always delivers a superlative experience, while the android hardware market is competing more on headline features, there's a huge incentive for android makers to put in some feature (like LTE, or a power hungry processor) that undermines a more important, but less exciting capability, like battery life. Trying to keep on top of all that, making sure I'm not getting screwed is more effort than I want to spend when shopping for a phone.... especially when I can just buy the latest iPhone and get the best experience, and know I'm not going to regret my purchase.
I think it comes down to the fact that although Android has more features, it arguable lacks the level of polish that iOS has.
Windows Phone 7 has less features than Android (and iOS?), but is way more polished and 'pretty'
Windows Phone 7 has less features than Android (and iOS?), but is way more polished and 'pretty'
Please detail which phone you use and which apps were unintuitive.
I hear complaints like this a lot, then try to replicate them on hardware I have to hand, and shockingly I am unable to do so! It's almost as if these stories are massively embellished versions of real interactions.
For example. Have you actually seen how complex the home button on an iPhone is?
I hear complaints like this a lot, then try to replicate them on hardware I have to hand, and shockingly I am unable to do so! It's almost as if these stories are massively embellished versions of real interactions.
For example. Have you actually seen how complex the home button on an iPhone is?
That's part of the problem. There is diversity in the Android ecosystem. Android hardware and software differ among models and versions. There isn't necessarily a common way of doing things.
Some might argue that the iOS' "one-way-to-do-things" design guidelines are constraining and limit innovation, but in practice they are very well thought out.
Some might argue that the iOS' "one-way-to-do-things" design guidelines are constraining and limit innovation, but in practice they are very well thought out.
Just playing devils advocate here... how complex is the home button? Clicking it does one thing: takes you to the first page of the home screen. If you're already there, it takes you to Spotlight.
Double clicking it pops up the multitasker.
Double clicking it pops up the multitasker.
And if you were in a folder before launching your app, it takes you back to the open folder. I never understood that part and it throws me off every time even with 1+ year of experience with it...
You can just hit the home button again. I always think of open folders as just another state of the home screen, just like any of the apps maintains a state.
As far as I can tell, they made double click launch the multitasker, and the mystery swipe left and right in it (without even any indicators this is possible), just to hide that stuff from novice users.
I'm not sure if you meant "hide" it so that they'd never use it or hide it so they wouldn't see it before they were ready. I think the intention on Apple's part was the latter.
It isn't that hard to accidentally double-click the home button and get to the other running Apps. This is a natural effect that good UI depends on. Rather than filling the screen with a control for every possible option, you get this "hidden" functionality that users discover by mistake.
Once there, swiping left and right is an obvious thing to do, but even if you don't think about it, you again can do it by mistake.
I found the voice command functionality by mistake when I held the home button down while thinking about what I wanted to do next (And have occasionally accidentally invoked it in this way since.)
It isn't that hard to accidentally double-click the home button and get to the other running Apps. This is a natural effect that good UI depends on. Rather than filling the screen with a control for every possible option, you get this "hidden" functionality that users discover by mistake.
Once there, swiping left and right is an obvious thing to do, but even if you don't think about it, you again can do it by mistake.
I found the voice command functionality by mistake when I held the home button down while thinking about what I wanted to do next (And have occasionally accidentally invoked it in this way since.)
You have a lot more faith than I in people actually realizing what they did by mistake, and learning to repeat it.
I think he's referring to this diagram:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/adurdin/4944720731/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/adurdin/4944720731/
And you click and hold to get Voice command. I've gotten that a couple times by mistake. So, I guess I've experienced the usability downside of this "complexity".
Still, one of the things I experienced in best buy was that the buttons at the bottom of the screen were pretty confusing.
The home button is really intuitive in comparison.
Still, one of the things I experienced in best buy was that the buttons at the bottom of the screen were pretty confusing.
The home button is really intuitive in comparison.
There's only really a couple of points in your post that are valid, so I'll go through each point you made.
1. Phones with the same class of processor have been available for some time now. Tegra 2 is a dual core 1ghz SoC and there are 1.2 and 1.5ghz dual cores from competitors, with a quad core 1.5ghz due from Nvidia within the next few months.
2. The camera may be excellent, but previous phones have applied some bad automatic settings to this, making adjusting of photos result in unnecessary detail loss.
3. iTunes and the App Store I won't argue against, but it's worthy of note now that competitors are approaching Apple with these features.
4. As far as the AI goes, I doubt it will ever see significant widespread adoption. Nobody has yet been able to give me a few good solid examples of use outside of 'play this album' and 'set a reminder for x'. Facetime was supposed to be the be-all and end-all of video chatting. I think I have used it once.
5. The general point about carriers is almost certainly stated by an American. iPhones have been available on many carriers in many countries, and still Android is advancing significantly.
6. You're ignoring the significant downsides to the iOS ecosystem. For example, if you purchase apps, you would be better off with an Android. Why? Because purchasing those apps on an iPhone means that the associated cost of switching to any other platform increases by the value of those apps. That cannot be justified as a 'good thing'.
1. Phones with the same class of processor have been available for some time now. Tegra 2 is a dual core 1ghz SoC and there are 1.2 and 1.5ghz dual cores from competitors, with a quad core 1.5ghz due from Nvidia within the next few months.
2. The camera may be excellent, but previous phones have applied some bad automatic settings to this, making adjusting of photos result in unnecessary detail loss.
3. iTunes and the App Store I won't argue against, but it's worthy of note now that competitors are approaching Apple with these features.
4. As far as the AI goes, I doubt it will ever see significant widespread adoption. Nobody has yet been able to give me a few good solid examples of use outside of 'play this album' and 'set a reminder for x'. Facetime was supposed to be the be-all and end-all of video chatting. I think I have used it once.
5. The general point about carriers is almost certainly stated by an American. iPhones have been available on many carriers in many countries, and still Android is advancing significantly.
6. You're ignoring the significant downsides to the iOS ecosystem. For example, if you purchase apps, you would be better off with an Android. Why? Because purchasing those apps on an iPhone means that the associated cost of switching to any other platform increases by the value of those apps. That cannot be justified as a 'good thing'.
You're ignoring the significant downsides to the Android ecosystem. For example, if you purchase apps, you would be better off with an iPhone. Why? Because purchasing those apps on an Android phone means that the associated cost of switching to any other platform increases by the value of those apps. That cannot be justified as a 'good thing'.
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I'm not understanding what you are saying. Any Android app you purchase can be installed on all of your Android devices. Would you mind rephrasing so I understand?
Well any iOS app you purchase can be installed on all of your iOS devices.
UNLESS, this is about how you can ONLY buy stuff from Apple's App Store and then I can understand the point being made. But jailbroken iPhone users are such a small percentage (as are rooted Android phone users) so I'm looking at this from the average consumers' perspective.
If they buy 100 apps on their Android device they are then leery about switching to iOS because they lose all those apps and vice-versa.
UNLESS, this is about how you can ONLY buy stuff from Apple's App Store and then I can understand the point being made. But jailbroken iPhone users are such a small percentage (as are rooted Android phone users) so I'm looking at this from the average consumers' perspective.
If they buy 100 apps on their Android device they are then leery about switching to iOS because they lose all those apps and vice-versa.
You are incorrect. Android applications can be compiled against purely Android libraries, or Google's additional libraries. The ones which do not depend on Google's services specifically can be used anywhere you like.
For example: There's a company running Android apps on iOS now.
For example: There's a company running Android apps on iOS now.
How am I incorrect? I'm referring to the idea of an average consumer buying 100 apps for their Android device and then being leery about switching to iOS because they would lose those apps and vice-versa.
Also, what company are you referring to?
Also, what company are you referring to?
Facetime is too integrated into an iPhone that it's easy to miss that it even exists. I've talked to people who use video chat apps on their iPhone 4, and didn't even realize that facetime exists, or how to use it. You also can't get a list of facetime contacts from the phone, you have to memorize if your contact has an iPhone on that phone number or email address or press the small facetime button on the person's contact detail screen on the bottom right corner and see if it will work. On top of that you can't use it on 3G network, which kills most of the use cases for it.
I used Siri quite a bit when it was still just a free app, and I found it to be pretty useful. Real-world stuff I actually used it for include:
1. Checking the weather forecast for a particular day. Just ask something like, "What's the weather tomorrow?" You can give it a specific city, or it will just use your current location. This is generally faster than using a weather site or app for places you haven't already set up a shortcut for.
2. Checking on movie times and availability while on the go. Just ask something like "movies near here" and it shows you what's available.
3. Setting up reminders when I spontaneously think of something while out and about. It's much easier to just say "remind me to water the dog tonight at 7" than to type something up into an e-mail or reminder app.
Ultimately, it didn't get as much use as perhaps it should, for two reasons. One, it's inconvenient to use as a standalone app. You have to unlock the phone, find the app icon, run it, wait for it to get started, press the button to activate voice input, then say what you want. Having it built in to iOS5 on the 4S should eliminate that problem completely. It looks like it's just a single button to go straight to voice mode.
Two, being an app, it doesn't integrate well with the rest of the phone. You can't use it to call people or e-mail them or send them text messages or modify your calendar or.... This limits the functionality greatly. I sometimes find myself using Dragon Dictation to bang out a quick e-mail, but it too is fairly cumbersome. Again, the integration into the system should solve this.
From my previous use, the Siri app was great but ultimately not all that useful, but I think the integrated one could end up being great. Of course, we will have to see how it really works once it ships.
1. Checking the weather forecast for a particular day. Just ask something like, "What's the weather tomorrow?" You can give it a specific city, or it will just use your current location. This is generally faster than using a weather site or app for places you haven't already set up a shortcut for.
2. Checking on movie times and availability while on the go. Just ask something like "movies near here" and it shows you what's available.
3. Setting up reminders when I spontaneously think of something while out and about. It's much easier to just say "remind me to water the dog tonight at 7" than to type something up into an e-mail or reminder app.
Ultimately, it didn't get as much use as perhaps it should, for two reasons. One, it's inconvenient to use as a standalone app. You have to unlock the phone, find the app icon, run it, wait for it to get started, press the button to activate voice input, then say what you want. Having it built in to iOS5 on the 4S should eliminate that problem completely. It looks like it's just a single button to go straight to voice mode.
Two, being an app, it doesn't integrate well with the rest of the phone. You can't use it to call people or e-mail them or send them text messages or modify your calendar or.... This limits the functionality greatly. I sometimes find myself using Dragon Dictation to bang out a quick e-mail, but it too is fairly cumbersome. Again, the integration into the system should solve this.
From my previous use, the Siri app was great but ultimately not all that useful, but I think the integrated one could end up being great. Of course, we will have to see how it really works once it ships.
Whenever the iPhone vs. android thing comes up, android proponents seem to always compare an actual iPhone against theoretical android phones? All of the features you're rebutting are in the actual iPhone, but you're comparing them to the entire android ecosystem.
On a point by point basis:
1. Android phones don't have co-processors for image stabilization and quality, for speech recognition, etc. They're using off the shelf parts and don't have the R&D budget to source and integrate the technology Apple has. Further, a couple of Apple's acquisitions were companies that give them an edge in power per watt.
2. Your claim about past iPhones is debatable, but it doesn't address the 4S.
3. I've --and I mean this literally-- heard people saying that competitors were replicating iTunes and it would no longer be a competitive advantage for Apple, since the very year the iTunes store was announced.
4. I think that talking to your phone like this might be a usability issue, we'll see. But nobody was used to touching their phones before Apple did it, and for a couple years after Apple announced the iPhone, people were always saying that phones with keyboards were better.
5. "Significance" is a subjective term, so you can't be wrong there- its significant to you, sure. Both products are quickly eating away at the installed base of feature phones... but it seems android makes sales to segments that just want a feature phone replacement, while the iPhone is making sales into segments where people want a smartphone. This results in iPhone users buying many more apps, using the phone to browse more, etc. Further, there is no successful android equivalent of the iPod touch or the iPad, and thus when looking at the whole market, android isn't doing as well.
6. All platforms have switching costs. Thus your claim here applies to android as well. However, since android users buy fewer apps, its easier for them to switch to the iPhone, than the reverse. The superlative app ecosystem on the iPhone works as a moat, but that effect doesn't help android as much.
On a point by point basis:
1. Android phones don't have co-processors for image stabilization and quality, for speech recognition, etc. They're using off the shelf parts and don't have the R&D budget to source and integrate the technology Apple has. Further, a couple of Apple's acquisitions were companies that give them an edge in power per watt.
2. Your claim about past iPhones is debatable, but it doesn't address the 4S.
3. I've --and I mean this literally-- heard people saying that competitors were replicating iTunes and it would no longer be a competitive advantage for Apple, since the very year the iTunes store was announced.
4. I think that talking to your phone like this might be a usability issue, we'll see. But nobody was used to touching their phones before Apple did it, and for a couple years after Apple announced the iPhone, people were always saying that phones with keyboards were better.
5. "Significance" is a subjective term, so you can't be wrong there- its significant to you, sure. Both products are quickly eating away at the installed base of feature phones... but it seems android makes sales to segments that just want a feature phone replacement, while the iPhone is making sales into segments where people want a smartphone. This results in iPhone users buying many more apps, using the phone to browse more, etc. Further, there is no successful android equivalent of the iPod touch or the iPad, and thus when looking at the whole market, android isn't doing as well.
6. All platforms have switching costs. Thus your claim here applies to android as well. However, since android users buy fewer apps, its easier for them to switch to the iPhone, than the reverse. The superlative app ecosystem on the iPhone works as a moat, but that effect doesn't help android as much.
Let's stay on the ground here. Yeah it is better.. because it's new.
There are many phones with a good camera, which will be enough for many people. Most advanced AI technology? I guess so, other phones don't have any AI technology. How fast the processor is, is mostly irrelevant unless the phone can't handle its own UI.
I own a Windows Phone because it was very cheap (180 Euros) and it's essentially the same as an IPhone from a functionality and design viewpoint.
I own a Windows Phone because it was very cheap (180 Euros) and it's essentially the same as an IPhone from a functionality and design viewpoint.
> are they actually suggesting someone would be better off with a Android, Blackberry or Windows 7 phone?
It seems your comment is based on a flawed assumption that all these consumer devices should be evaluated in a vacuum where price, app markets, & previous corporate adoption doesn't matter.
iPhones where historically really expensive devices. And price is one of the features of the device just like camera resolution is. So it is a bit like saying "Can't people see that a Lexus is a much better car than a Honda Civic? Why are reviews for a Honda Civic better sometimes than reviews for a Lexus, I don't get it !?"
It seems your comment is based on a flawed assumption that all these consumer devices should be evaluated in a vacuum where price, app markets, & previous corporate adoption doesn't matter.
iPhones where historically really expensive devices. And price is one of the features of the device just like camera resolution is. So it is a bit like saying "Can't people see that a Lexus is a much better car than a Honda Civic? Why are reviews for a Honda Civic better sometimes than reviews for a Lexus, I don't get it !?"
> iPhones where historically really expensive devices.
No. Smartphones are historically really expensive devices. Year before the iPhone was released, I had a Eseries Nokia phone, it was something like 500€ out of carriers (and few carriers had it, Eseries are enterprise/corporate phones), unsubsidized Nseries phones ("comsumer" smartphones, usually with a 10key and more multimedia features instead of the full qwerty keyboard of Eseries) were the same price.
When the original iPhone was released, it was not expensive, it was unsubsidized.
No. Smartphones are historically really expensive devices. Year before the iPhone was released, I had a Eseries Nokia phone, it was something like 500€ out of carriers (and few carriers had it, Eseries are enterprise/corporate phones), unsubsidized Nseries phones ("comsumer" smartphones, usually with a 10key and more multimedia features instead of the full qwerty keyboard of Eseries) were the same price.
When the original iPhone was released, it was not expensive, it was unsubsidized.
> When the original iPhone was released, it was not expensive, it was unsubsidized.
Which made it 'seem' expensive to an average consumer. Yes, they end up spending that money by being locked into a contract for 2 years, but they at least see it as a cheaper option.
Which made it 'seem' expensive to an average consumer. Yes, they end up spending that money by being locked into a contract for 2 years, but they at least see it as a cheaper option.
He didn't say it was the best value on the smartphone market. He said it was (in his opinion) the best smartphone.
Not sure how price qualifies as a feature considering prices may change based on time, geography, carrier choice and other factors.
No matter how you look at it, a Lexus is a better car than a Honda Civic. You, as a customer, may not assign the same value to the actual features as a different customer may is the only difference.
Not sure how price qualifies as a feature considering prices may change based on time, geography, carrier choice and other factors.
No matter how you look at it, a Lexus is a better car than a Honda Civic. You, as a customer, may not assign the same value to the actual features as a different customer may is the only difference.
I just see value as one of the features. Even reviewers who get the device for free will probably have an idea on what it would cost and thus have correspondingly higher expectations of it.
To continue with my stupid exampel, if I am asked to review a Lexus, I will end up reviewing it differently perhaps because I expect more. Heated seats not working well enough -- taking points off. Even in a comparison review some of this bias will leak in.
To continue with my stupid exampel, if I am asked to review a Lexus, I will end up reviewing it differently perhaps because I expect more. Heated seats not working well enough -- taking points off. Even in a comparison review some of this bias will leak in.
I love my Windows phone especially with the new update. The software actually makes up for the substandard hardware. On that note the new Iphone is pretty damn awesome.
A few reasons why I prefer my Thunderbolt to the iPhone 4:
-Bigger screen
-LTE 4G
-Tons of different ROMs available
-More customization options
-I prefer the Android interface
It all comes down to your needs. The screen size alone takes the iPhone out of consideration for me.
-Bigger screen
-LTE 4G
-Tons of different ROMs available
-More customization options
-I prefer the Android interface
It all comes down to your needs. The screen size alone takes the iPhone out of consideration for me.
I want a bigger screen :(
It's hard to read books on the iPhone, but it's easy on 3.7-4.0" phones, even when they have less pixels.
It's hard to read books on the iPhone, but it's easy on 3.7-4.0" phones, even when they have less pixels.
Best is a term that suggests there is no subjectivity to preference.
Me and the rest of the developer community laugh at the contrary blog posts, all the way to the bank. This weekend, there will be hundreds of thousands more iPhone owners, and the developer community will make a fortune.
I applaud Apple for focusing on what's important - speed and sex, not features and fapping. Because when they do, all my apps get faster and all my customers get happier, and I don't have to do much work at all. Integrating with new APIs and hardware is a necessary evil, but we just want the devices to keep getting smaller and faster, as do the consumers.
I applaud Apple for focusing on what's important - speed and sex, not features and fapping. Because when they do, all my apps get faster and all my customers get happier, and I don't have to do much work at all. Integrating with new APIs and hardware is a necessary evil, but we just want the devices to keep getting smaller and faster, as do the consumers.
OTOH, if Apple had killed the 3GS this time around, rather than keeping it around for another year, that probably would have been better for devs since they wouldn't have needed to support that old slow platform.
I wouldn't call the 3GS slow. The 3G was slow, and represented a development pain in which we would do optimizations to suit the device. 3GS is plenty fast, and the iPhone4 and iPad2 are smoking hot rods.
The contrarian community wonders where your data regarding the percentage of iPhone 4S orders that represent new customers comes from. Is this based on past launches? What were the percentages then?
"Every customer who buys an iPhone 4S at an Apple retail store will be offered free Personal Setup service, helping them customize their iPhone 4S by setting up email, showing them new apps from the App Store™ and more, so they’ll be up and running with their new iPhone before they leave the store."
They don't need to be new owners. Imagine a sale team that will sit down with millions of your users (existing or new), showing them what new apps are out there, reminding them to buy from your store and walking them through on purchasing your product again. This will sure generate a big spike overall.
It’s a pretty safe bet. Apple has had a stable marketshare in this rapidly growing market for a long time.
I don't know the percentages, but when iPad2 and iPhone4 hit, we made a lot of money. Those days were like Christmas spikes.
Industry wonks will probably estimate the % who are new customers this week though.
Industry wonks will probably estimate the % who are new customers this week though.
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Hey, iPhones have features, too.
So if there was an iPhone 5, it's preorders would be the same as worse as now, right? A lot of people upgraded from the 3GS to the iPhone 4 even when in contract, I believe the percent of people doing that is lesser this time and would've been higher at this point.
I don't think anyone said the iPhone 4S will do badly. It's a new iPhone after all and there's a ton of 3GS'ers out of a contract, not to mention people holding off on buying an iPhone 4 waiting for the new phone from a few months.
I don't think anyone said the iPhone 4S will do badly. It's a new iPhone after all and there's a ton of 3GS'ers out of a contract, not to mention people holding off on buying an iPhone 4 waiting for the new phone from a few months.
Up 66% percent, roughly the same rate that the entire market is growing. It's almost uncanny how the iPhone manages to maintain its near-constant share of this rapidly growing market.
A visual chart of this phenomenon:
http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/wp-content/uploads/2011/...
A visual chart of this phenomenon:
http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/wp-content/uploads/2011/...
What's more amazing is that Apple does this with one phone. Whereas Android and BlackBerry are split across many, many devices and/or manufacturers.
>What's more amazing is that Apple does this with one phone.
I think that's part of how Apple do it. Focus.
I think that's part of how Apple do it. Focus.
Well, now you have 3 distinct models out there, with significantly different hardware, so it's not really one phone.
Sure it is, its the same phone, but different model years.
That must be why they all have different names. But hey, at least that is better than "Macbook Pro (early 2009)".
I'm not sure if this is pedantic in context but actually Apple have been selling 3 or 4 phones for the last year. (The 3G was still available in some markets after the 4 was introduced just as the 3GS remains now in the US. Whether you count the Verizon iPhone seperately is debatable, but Samsung's American network exclusives seem to be counted that way, even if they share 99% of their make-up, though Apple has unified those now to some degree).
I'm thinking about picking up the 3GS here in Switzerland with a pretty cheap subscription plan, which is essentially a subsidized pay-as-you-go plan. (with a $20 subsidy over 2 years). So there definitely is a market for the older 3GS.
This graph is quite old now. Updated version?
That's a different source though, and figures for the world not the US, so not directly comparable.
Neilsen do update the figures every so often in items on their blog, but that was the latest historical graph.
This entry from last month has the figures for June (so six months since the last figures shown on the graph) Android up 14 points to 40%, RIM down 8 points to 19% and Apple still steady at 28%:
http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/online_mobile/40-percent...
I believe someone on hacker news was copying these monthly updates into a spreadsheet so they could make their own graphs without having to buy the full report and sharing the results, you might be able to find a link if you search.
Neilsen do update the figures every so often in items on their blog, but that was the latest historical graph.
This entry from last month has the figures for June (so six months since the last figures shown on the graph) Android up 14 points to 40%, RIM down 8 points to 19% and Apple still steady at 28%:
http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/online_mobile/40-percent...
I believe someone on hacker news was copying these monthly updates into a spreadsheet so they could make their own graphs without having to buy the full report and sharing the results, you might be able to find a link if you search.
Good for Apple. I'm happy that internet 'gurus' and Wall St are proven wrong again when saying that the 4S was a disappointing product...
To put the disappointed reaction in perspective, I'd say it was roughly the same reaction the iPad received upon its introduction - it was just a "big iPhone". I can't believe it's still going over people's heads, but Apple releases simple products with limited feature sets. Well after the iPhone's release, many people argued somewhat persuasively that Nokia phones from 2004 were light-years ahead of the iPhone. Almost every iPod (excepting the Nano and Touch) was met with that same kind of "eh, nothing new" derision.
They haven't necessarily been proven wrong. Firstly, disappointing is subjective, not objective, so the people who were disappointed might not be the ones ordering it, and neither of those choices is right or wrong.
But more importantly, when the Blackberry 9000 was released I was disappointed with it, I'd hoped for more. I still got my pre-order in, because I wanted to upgrade and it was better than the phone I had at that time. And I have friends now who say they are disappointed with the 4S, but they are still upgrading from their 3/3S/4, just because it's still better and they've had their current phone for a while.
But more importantly, when the Blackberry 9000 was released I was disappointed with it, I'd hoped for more. I still got my pre-order in, because I wanted to upgrade and it was better than the phone I had at that time. And I have friends now who say they are disappointed with the 4S, but they are still upgrading from their 3/3S/4, just because it's still better and they've had their current phone for a while.
I think this is a stretch. This is the absolute best product launch in the history of Apple in terms of pre-order. We still have all the people that are actually going to go in and buy the thing on Friday in real life! Not to mention it has been more than 24 hours so who knows how big the total number of pre-orders is.
So you got a Blackberry 9000 despite it not being everything you wanted? But did you get it in the first 24 hours? Did you do it first thing in the morning as many people must have since at least 200,000 were sold in the first 12 hours by ATT? These are not the actions of disappointed people.
And sure, I guess technically no matter how well it performs the product could still be "disappointing" under some definition, but then the word starts to lack meaning.
So you got a Blackberry 9000 despite it not being everything you wanted? But did you get it in the first 24 hours? Did you do it first thing in the morning as many people must have since at least 200,000 were sold in the first 12 hours by ATT? These are not the actions of disappointed people.
And sure, I guess technically no matter how well it performs the product could still be "disappointing" under some definition, but then the word starts to lack meaning.
It's 'disappointing' in the sense that, although it is more powerful and arguably better than the previous generation, people were wanting more substantial improvements.
SunSpider results show that the browser is twice as fast as the previous generation. The processor is twice as fast with a 7x graphics performance improvement. That's a substantial improvement over an already good product.
When you say people were wanting more substantial improvements, what you really meant was that they wanted a different name (iPhone 5) and case design. If the iPhone 4S internals were put into a different case and was called the iPhone 5, we wouldn't be hearing complaints. These complaints are superficial (at best), and the overwhelming initial demand is showing that many people don't find those issues at all.
When you say people were wanting more substantial improvements, what you really meant was that they wanted a different name (iPhone 5) and case design. If the iPhone 4S internals were put into a different case and was called the iPhone 5, we wouldn't be hearing complaints. These complaints are superficial (at best), and the overwhelming initial demand is showing that many people don't find those issues at all.
I think we are arguing the same point: the iPhone 4S is a great product and does have solid improvements.
I am not disappointed with the 4S, but it is apparently clear that a few vocal people are. Why are they disappointed? I can only guess that it would be because it doesn't have a 'next generation' design.
At first I was disappointed because I was after a larger screen (or just more of an 'edge-to-edge' display) for my iPhone and I would happily upgrade to that, but that is the extend to my disappointment. It is evident that the 4S an improvement upon the second generation and will be welcomed by people coming off their 3GS contracts
I am not disappointed with the 4S, but it is apparently clear that a few vocal people are. Why are they disappointed? I can only guess that it would be because it doesn't have a 'next generation' design.
At first I was disappointed because I was after a larger screen (or just more of an 'edge-to-edge' display) for my iPhone and I would happily upgrade to that, but that is the extend to my disappointment. It is evident that the 4S an improvement upon the second generation and will be welcomed by people coming off their 3GS contracts
And what exactly were those people wanting?
I'd say they were expecting the iPhone 5 because Apple did not upgrade the iPhone 4 in the summer like they did with the iPhone 3G and also because iOS 5 was already announced.
Now about what would they expect from the iPhone 5, that's more complicated. Look, they created an amazing smartphone out of nowhere, then they did the iPad and then they even did the cheaper MacBook Air. I guess people could be expecting something really new again. Can't say it was a smart decision to expect it because iOS 5 is pretty much the same thing but still...
So, now we can all expect an iPhone 5 coming next year by this time but what can they do while keeping iOS 5 around?
Now about what would they expect from the iPhone 5, that's more complicated. Look, they created an amazing smartphone out of nowhere, then they did the iPad and then they even did the cheaper MacBook Air. I guess people could be expecting something really new again. Can't say it was a smart decision to expect it because iOS 5 is pretty much the same thing but still...
So, now we can all expect an iPhone 5 coming next year by this time but what can they do while keeping iOS 5 around?
I don’t understand you. Are you suggesting that Apple should ditch iOS?
Ditch? No, it's a success! What I am saying it that smartphones probably won't change much its hardware format for some more years (with just tiny differences) so if I had to guess I'd say software is pretty much everything on this race in the medium term.
So, back to my iPhone roadmap, I can't see Apple releasing iOS 6 just after one year so iPhone 5, to be released in 2012, will still feature iOS 5 thus there won't be magical changes (the ones I was talking about on my previous post). Either Apple do something amazing hardware-wise or they hurry iOS 6 to be a major update to the platform in 2012 already.
So, back to my iPhone roadmap, I can't see Apple releasing iOS 6 just after one year so iPhone 5, to be released in 2012, will still feature iOS 5 thus there won't be magical changes (the ones I was talking about on my previous post). Either Apple do something amazing hardware-wise or they hurry iOS 6 to be a major update to the platform in 2012 already.
My guess is a 'new device'. If the only difference between that and the iPhone 4S is a larger screen and designed exterior, then so be it.
I think many just wanted a pretty new piece of hardware that looks different (‘better’) than the current form factor.
Disappointing just means it didn't meet expectations - there's plenty of scope for something to fall below expectations yet above the level which makes you want it badly.
Yes, with the Bold 9000 I pre-ordered the instant it was available.
Yes, with the Bold 9000 I pre-ordered the instant it was available.
I'm quite disappointed (disclosure: I mainly develop iOS applications) not because of the specs, but I'm disappointed because Apple on this one appears to be even more greedy [1] than before. I don't necessarily want change for change but when you reuse components or design you are expected to lower the price a bit.
I find the current release pattern very similar to the Intel Tick-Tock model [2] where the Tick would be a big software update (iOS 5 in this case) and where the Tock would be an emphasized hardware update on the same platform (maybe a new iPhone 5 next year on iOS 5).
[1] http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/10/10/apple_expected...
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Tick-Tock
I find the current release pattern very similar to the Intel Tick-Tock model [2] where the Tick would be a big software update (iOS 5 in this case) and where the Tock would be an emphasized hardware update on the same platform (maybe a new iPhone 5 next year on iOS 5).
[1] http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/10/10/apple_expected...
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Tick-Tock
Of course Apple has higher manufacturing margins. They do more than other manufacturers; other manufacturers don't necessarily design the CPU or write the OS. Google writes the Android OS for free in an attempt to subsidize people's consumption of web advertising, but Apple has to make their money by actually selling phones. Software talent isn't exactly cheap in Silicon Valley.
You're right about the Tick-Tock, but since Apple hasn't announced it as a policy, people expect every release to be a Tick.
I think you're wrong about Apple being greedy. Didn't they double the RAM? 16/32/64 for the price of 8/16/32 in the past? Also, the camera, processor and radio chips are all new from the original iPhone 4. The form factor is the same, but the antenna are a new design. And I think they are still working off the margin hit from the retina display.
I think you're wrong about Apple being greedy. Didn't they double the RAM? 16/32/64 for the price of 8/16/32 in the past? Also, the camera, processor and radio chips are all new from the original iPhone 4. The form factor is the same, but the antenna are a new design. And I think they are still working off the margin hit from the retina display.
The only people expecting a tick-tick-tick release model haven't been paying attention to what Apple has almost always done.
They haven't doubled the storage (at the same price) for 2 years now.
iPhone 3GS: 16GB for $199, 32GB for $299.
iPhone 4: 16GB for $199, 32GB for $299.
iPhone 4S: 16GB for $199, 32GB for $299, 64GB for $399.
iPhone 3GS: 16GB for $199, 32GB for $299.
iPhone 4: 16GB for $199, 32GB for $299.
iPhone 4S: 16GB for $199, 32GB for $299, 64GB for $399.
Indeed not - with the 4S they added unlimited storage at the same price, and retrospectively added it to any device running iOS 5, with 5GB for some uses.
It may not be flash memory, but it has to count - it is what Apple intend to be used for bulk music storage with iOS 5.
It may not be flash memory, but it has to count - it is what Apple intend to be used for bulk music storage with iOS 5.
It just means that the 16 GB iPhone 4S is worth $100 more to people than the 8 GB iPhone. Since I assume most people buying one are coming from the 3GS after their 2 year contract is up. The 4S is certainly not going to get iPhone 4 users to upgrade early for an extra couple hundred bucks.
I’m not really sure whether that’s Apple’s goal in the first place. Realistically the vast majority of people is not going to buy a new phone every year. Apple is not selling the iPhone to a handful crazy devotees, those are (at least by now) clearly a tiny minority. Consequently it doesn’t seem wise to optimize everything for one-year upgrade cycles.
I think we can't judge if this product is disappointing or not by the sales number. I am not saying that the 4S is not a good phone, but the sales are obviously heavily influenced by the Steve Jobs death. Many of my friends who weren't considering a new phone are now going to buy it because it is the last iPhone launched with Jobs alive.
The iPhone 4S will probably be my mom's first cell phone. She doesn't like tech and likes her big button home phone (as in 3/4" button big button). My father and her just moved and my Dad doesn't really want a home phone anymore. He has been looking at getting her a JitterBug. She uses and Apple TV fine (netflix, mlb, and iTunes), so it isn't like she cannot use technology. She just has a phobia of current cellphones. I think it is more from her not wanting to wear her glasses and not being able to read the phone (she sees the TV fine).
Given Siri, Mom will be getting the iPhone 4S.
Given Siri, Mom will be getting the iPhone 4S.
Are these numbers from worldwide pre-orders? I might be wrong but I thought that this was their biggest launch (different countries same date).
Even if that's the case, the significantly higher (~66%) orders is something that people in Apple can take a bow for. Well done.
Even if that's the case, the significantly higher (~66%) orders is something that people in Apple can take a bow for. Well done.
When the technorati (and, to be honest, most bloggers have been supportive of the product) diss this phone, are they actually suggesting someone would be better off with a Android, Blackberry or Windows 7 phone? It's a plain and simple fact that people refuse to accept - people purchase Android because it's available on many different carriers and comes in many different price points. People choose blackberry cause sometimes their work requires it or they want blackberry messenger. And no one chooses Windows phones. With the iPhone now available on more carriers at different price points, the game will continue to change.