Ask HN: My house just got hit by lightning and it fried the PSU in my computer
80 comments
A lightning bolt carries a current upwards of 100,000 amps, and has upwards of 10 billion joules of energy.
A high end consumer grade surge suppressor might be rated for 1000 joules, and a few thousand amps of peak current.
If lightning directly strikes your house wiring, no amount of surge suppressors are going to save you.
For an idea of what a surge suppressor that can handle the blow of a full on lightning strike looks like, take a look at the units used by utility companies on their high tension lines. Typically they are about a 6" in diameter and often several feet long -- and those units still need to be replaced after a single direct hit! https://www.equipmentimes.com/product/details/Lightning-Arre...
The best thing that you can do to protect yourself in the future is to have a lightning rod network installed on your roof, which will shunt the current from the strike directly to the ground. Otherwise the only failsafe alternative is to completely unplug sensitive equipment (still OK to run from battery but with all ethernet etc cables unplugged -- wireless network only) whenever there is a storm predicted.
A high end consumer grade surge suppressor might be rated for 1000 joules, and a few thousand amps of peak current.
If lightning directly strikes your house wiring, no amount of surge suppressors are going to save you.
For an idea of what a surge suppressor that can handle the blow of a full on lightning strike looks like, take a look at the units used by utility companies on their high tension lines. Typically they are about a 6" in diameter and often several feet long -- and those units still need to be replaced after a single direct hit! https://www.equipmentimes.com/product/details/Lightning-Arre...
The best thing that you can do to protect yourself in the future is to have a lightning rod network installed on your roof, which will shunt the current from the strike directly to the ground. Otherwise the only failsafe alternative is to completely unplug sensitive equipment (still OK to run from battery but with all ethernet etc cables unplugged -- wireless network only) whenever there is a storm predicted.
Lightning rods are called lightning rods but they are not actually designed to take a strike head on.
They are actually designed to remove charge from the clouds above where the rod is installed.
Static electrons loves to congregate in small places, I.e. the tip of a needle or the edge or fold in a piece of metal (can help the paint job add extra paint to those places it is needed most, bonus!)
Anyway a lightning rod is probably the best protection but yeah the copper would vapourise if it.was actually hit, causing a fire.
They are actually designed to remove charge from the clouds above where the rod is installed.
Static electrons loves to congregate in small places, I.e. the tip of a needle or the edge or fold in a piece of metal (can help the paint job add extra paint to those places it is needed most, bonus!)
Anyway a lightning rod is probably the best protection but yeah the copper would vapourise if it.was actually hit, causing a fire.
According to wikipedia [0], such a device was actually proposed by a priest in 1754. The theory was more or less as you describe. But there is debate on whether it counts as a lightning rod, and apparently most lightning protection systems work exactly the way you said they don't: to provide a very low impedence path for the current to go safely to ground, which is called a Franklin design.
[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_rod#Europe
[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_rod#Europe
This is false.
I'm entirely unsurprised by hn's voting on the verbose completely wrong comment and the short completely correct comment. Neither of them provided any support for their claims, but one was wrong and wasted a lot of people's time. And even worse, some of those people are now likely to go off and share that exact same wrong information just as confidently somewhere else.
Please elaborate on why.
A lightning bolt carries a current upwards of 100,000 amps, and has upwards of 10 billion joules of energy.
How many gigawatts is that? I’ve a car I need to jump start.
How many gigawatts is that? I’ve a car I need to jump start.
About 1.21 jigawatts
Enough to travel back in time afaik
Only at 88mph...
As we don't have long cables, guess we'll have to time it perfectly.
About 1,000 gigawatts peak power for a few microseconds, plenty to jump start your time machine.
That's a blast from the past - when we were kids in India we were warned never to use the telephone during a thunderstorm - my mom even used to immediately unplug it, the TV and the refrigerator during such weather.
I've had a neighbour which had her computer destroyed by lightning. She bought a new one and disconnected it during all thunderstorms from power. But she didn't disconnect her modem from phone line (it was in 1997). After another thunderstorm, modem stopped working. When I pulled it out, the main modem chip had a nice hole with some copper vapourised near it. So, unplugging telephone in some areas is a good idea. Now my whole town has proper protectors and I didn't have any problems with electric equipment since years.
At least in Germany, surge suppressors are hierarchical of type 1, 2 and 3. Type 1 handles the major blast, followed by type 2 to protect the installation and type 3 for sensitive electronics. The OP apparently just had a type 3 surge suppressor that unsurprisingly blew.
Afaik the proper way is having a proper lightning rod together with the aforementioned cascade of surge suppressors. And of course a PE!
Afaik the proper way is having a proper lightning rod together with the aforementioned cascade of surge suppressors. And of course a PE!
Yup. The amount of energy from a direct strike is simply too much. It already travelled a great distance through a highly resistive material (air), even if there is an "ideal" path to ground some energy will find its way.
Consumer grade suppressors are meant for indirect strikes, overhead lines near you, or a direct hit on your neighbour's house.
Consumer grade suppressors are meant for indirect strikes, overhead lines near you, or a direct hit on your neighbour's house.
How about a circuit that disconnects the wall sockets upon a strike? If you make the length of the cables to your sockets divided by the propagation speed much longer than the time it takes the control signal, it could work, no?
No relay in the world is going to switch fast enough for this. I'd love to be proven wrong though.
Good luck breaking a circuit when dealing with lightning discharge conditions.
That is unless are okay buying oil immersed equipment the size of a fridge. And that’s probably not enough, either.
That is unless are okay buying oil immersed equipment the size of a fridge. And that’s probably not enough, either.
Not only is no circuit fast enough to disconnect in time, lightning isn't AC/DC. It's electrostatic. Which means it carries and induces potentials that can jump further than your power usually can. So it'll bridge the connection in even circuits that were already disconnected.
By it's very nature, lightning is high enough voltage to leap an air-gap
You only have to make the gap larger than the gap to a well-grounded terminal.
You're assuming it won't bifurcate and jump across both gaps, which is entirely possible.
sadly it won't work ... the lightning will go around the switch through the air, just like it did all the way down.
Edit: spelling
Edit: spelling
So if you unplugged your computer the lightning would still find its way, through the air, to your computer?
It could if it was still part of the lowest resistance path to ground.
Electricity is like water, it wants to flow from high potential difference to low potential difference.
Lightning (as far as I know) does not have consciousness and is not out to get your computer!
The parent post was talking about putting a automatic switch in between the power supply to the house (ground active neutral) and switching it off when lightning struck, the problem there is that the switch will not do much if the lightning air gaps around it.
Lightning (as far as I know) does not have consciousness and is not out to get your computer!
The parent post was talking about putting a automatic switch in between the power supply to the house (ground active neutral) and switching it off when lightning struck, the problem there is that the switch will not do much if the lightning air gaps around it.
Isn't it more likely that the current will go from one terminal of the now unconnected cord to another terminal of the same cord?
It all depends on the what is the shortest path to ground.
Ground is also a relative term for a lightning strike.
When lightning hits the ground, a potential field emanates from that point. The further out the closer to 0V the potential difference is.
As such it depends on where the strike is in comparison to the house, your wiring, where your house is grounded etc.
For example, if the grounding point on your house is very close to the strike, your house ground will be raised to the voltage of that point away from the stike.
The path to 0V may be through your active wiring, your powesupply, the house frame or the water pipes.
So yeah, hope that helps
Ground is also a relative term for a lightning strike.
When lightning hits the ground, a potential field emanates from that point. The further out the closer to 0V the potential difference is.
As such it depends on where the strike is in comparison to the house, your wiring, where your house is grounded etc.
For example, if the grounding point on your house is very close to the strike, your house ground will be raised to the voltage of that point away from the stike.
The path to 0V may be through your active wiring, your powesupply, the house frame or the water pipes.
So yeah, hope that helps
You're a true inventor with a perfect grasp of the principles, that's basically how circuit breakers work! The challenge is to predict the future: sense how high the voltage pulse will rise, before it overloads. The speed of light is hard to exceed, at least as we currently understand. The charge will look for a shorter path, so if it can find a way around the long cable, the lightning will probably strike there instead.
Now here's one for the engineers. We can tell the future. Musicians change tempo before singing the next verse. ADS-B data tells us when there's a plane coming. Could a "smart" surge protector include a measure of ground noise, to sense local charge differentials, and guess that the next spike is probably lightning rather than a typical mains arc? More sensors yes, but increasing protection only when expected would possibly improve the feedback loop.
Now here's one for the engineers. We can tell the future. Musicians change tempo before singing the next verse. ADS-B data tells us when there's a plane coming. Could a "smart" surge protector include a measure of ground noise, to sense local charge differentials, and guess that the next spike is probably lightning rather than a typical mains arc? More sensors yes, but increasing protection only when expected would possibly improve the feedback loop.
you are incorrect. a whole house surge protector will stop a lighting strike. its what they are designed for.
Electrostatic forces like lightning don't behave like regular AC/DC
electricity. Around a massive discharge you get high field strengths
that can induce potentials in objects not even connected. This is the
EMP (electro-magnetic pulse). Sounds like the strike was close to you
and you should be glad you only lost a PSU.
In modern electronics it's small capacitive gaps that get damaged. Electrolytic capacitors and CMOS gates get their insulation punched through, which destroys the component. As plastic housings have replaced metal ones there's little or no field shielding on gear these days.
As others have said, for prevention your supply circuits should be earthed. They should be anyway, for human health and safety reasons, including an earth rod (long copper pipe or pole driven down into soil at least 1 meter) so your earth return is not too far away. Usually you also want an earth leakage sensor set to cut the supply if any current is flowing through the earth circuit - very useful in a damp/rainy environment.
Problem is; most switched mode PSUs use only the active pair (live and neutral in single phase European terminology) so there's nowhere for errant currents to go. Often they have an arrestor, as old copper telephone systems did, and the idea is that it arcs across, closes the arrestor and shorts the path (often blowing a fuse). With nearby lightning you get >100kV very fast, and it all happens too quick.
In modern electronics it's small capacitive gaps that get damaged. Electrolytic capacitors and CMOS gates get their insulation punched through, which destroys the component. As plastic housings have replaced metal ones there's little or no field shielding on gear these days.
As others have said, for prevention your supply circuits should be earthed. They should be anyway, for human health and safety reasons, including an earth rod (long copper pipe or pole driven down into soil at least 1 meter) so your earth return is not too far away. Usually you also want an earth leakage sensor set to cut the supply if any current is flowing through the earth circuit - very useful in a damp/rainy environment.
Problem is; most switched mode PSUs use only the active pair (live and neutral in single phase European terminology) so there's nowhere for errant currents to go. Often they have an arrestor, as old copper telephone systems did, and the idea is that it arcs across, closes the arrestor and shorts the path (often blowing a fuse). With nearby lightning you get >100kV very fast, and it all happens too quick.
For some types of power supply, not having a proper ground can dangerous for reasons many people don’t realise. It’s not just about fault currents ‘flowing to ground’. Should just the supply neutral become disconnected, such as during high wind, then without a proper ground setup every metal item in your house that is grounded (such as microwave cases) can become live. It depends on how things are configured, but this type of lethal fault is a real possibility if neutral and ground are bonded at your house as they often are.
In the case where your power is derived from another property as you describe, in the UK we would normally call this a ‘TT’ power supply which you can google. It is absolutely essential (life and death) to have both a good grounding rod and an RCD at your end.
A others have said, get an electrician who understands the subtleties of outbuilding power supplies. If you cannot do that for whatever reason, I suggest first reading up extensively on the different kinds of earthing system, and finding out which one you effectively have.
Since you had no ground previously, it is likely that just live and neutral have been exported from your neighbours property (TT). You can probably check this by visual inspection, and it isn’t actually a problem provided you fix the grounding and protection at your end. To fix this grounding problem what happened? Did the electrician install a grounding rod? Did they happen to measure the impedance of it and write that somewhere? Do you have an RCD in your consumer unit (fuse box)?
In the case where your power is derived from another property as you describe, in the UK we would normally call this a ‘TT’ power supply which you can google. It is absolutely essential (life and death) to have both a good grounding rod and an RCD at your end.
A others have said, get an electrician who understands the subtleties of outbuilding power supplies. If you cannot do that for whatever reason, I suggest first reading up extensively on the different kinds of earthing system, and finding out which one you effectively have.
Since you had no ground previously, it is likely that just live and neutral have been exported from your neighbours property (TT). You can probably check this by visual inspection, and it isn’t actually a problem provided you fix the grounding and protection at your end. To fix this grounding problem what happened? Did the electrician install a grounding rod? Did they happen to measure the impedance of it and write that somewhere? Do you have an RCD in your consumer unit (fuse box)?
> Except for the palm trees, my house is the tallest structure in a 200 x 200 meters (300 feet)+ area
Do you have a lightning rod on the house? If not, you absolutely need one, and you have to make sure it has a proper grounding rod. If you don't know if the one that is there is reliable, put in a new one.
> It goes in to the owners house, where the meter is. From there they have pulled a 200 meter cable into ours.
... and let me guess there is no grounding connection at your house but only at the owner's house?
> Any suggestions on what to do next? A big metal stick somewhere in the garden?
For starters - I'll base it on German standards:
- generally, get a licensed electrician on site to review your whole electric installation. It may be severely damaged (e.g. by overvoltage breaking down the isolation of the wires)!
- both your house and the owner's house each need a proper, separate grounding rod for the electrical system. The closer to the house, the better. In Germany, it's standard practice to have one horizontal rod below the foundation and a separate vertical deep-going rod. You can have the electrician measure the quality of the grounding.
- both your house and the owner's house each need lightning rod(s) on the roof connected to the building's grounding rod
- your surge protector in the UPS isn't able to take a full lightning strike, which is why lightning protection usually needs three stages: the first one made out of spark gaps is directly at the point where the electric supply line enters the house, it will take out the brunt of the lightning strike but still leave a dangerously high overvoltage. The second stage is in the distribution cabinet, here varistors are used. The third stage is your UPS's SPD. And it will always need all three stages to work - leave one out and the system becomes useless!
- you also need lightning protection for the phone line and the TV antenna. In the latter case you need to protect the antenna itself by attaching the mast to the lightning rod and the antenna cable / distributor with an appropriate SPD system.
Do you have a lightning rod on the house? If not, you absolutely need one, and you have to make sure it has a proper grounding rod. If you don't know if the one that is there is reliable, put in a new one.
> It goes in to the owners house, where the meter is. From there they have pulled a 200 meter cable into ours.
... and let me guess there is no grounding connection at your house but only at the owner's house?
> Any suggestions on what to do next? A big metal stick somewhere in the garden?
For starters - I'll base it on German standards:
- generally, get a licensed electrician on site to review your whole electric installation. It may be severely damaged (e.g. by overvoltage breaking down the isolation of the wires)!
- both your house and the owner's house each need a proper, separate grounding rod for the electrical system. The closer to the house, the better. In Germany, it's standard practice to have one horizontal rod below the foundation and a separate vertical deep-going rod. You can have the electrician measure the quality of the grounding.
- both your house and the owner's house each need lightning rod(s) on the roof connected to the building's grounding rod
- your surge protector in the UPS isn't able to take a full lightning strike, which is why lightning protection usually needs three stages: the first one made out of spark gaps is directly at the point where the electric supply line enters the house, it will take out the brunt of the lightning strike but still leave a dangerously high overvoltage. The second stage is in the distribution cabinet, here varistors are used. The third stage is your UPS's SPD. And it will always need all three stages to work - leave one out and the system becomes useless!
- you also need lightning protection for the phone line and the TV antenna. In the latter case you need to protect the antenna itself by attaching the mast to the lightning rod and the antenna cable / distributor with an appropriate SPD system.
I had ground added to my house in the Philippines. The electrician will not do it correctly until you specify exactly what you need. They will always bias towards the cheapest option, because that is what most people want here. You need to specify to install a grounding rod, as well as the length. Consult your local electric code.
I'm guessing your electrician connected your ground wire to the roof, or some other part of your house construction. That gives you a nice path for lightning to go between the utility neutral and your roof through your appliances.
I'm guessing your electrician connected your ground wire to the roof, or some other part of your house construction. That gives you a nice path for lightning to go between the utility neutral and your roof through your appliances.
> You need to specify to install a grounding rod, as well as the length
Umm. When electrician installed grounding rod for me, he did measurements. He couldn't tell how much grounding rods will I need. Because some get lucky and get tapped into undeground water and immediately gets low resistance.
In my case, we couldn't use a single spot as the rods were too hard to go in for required length, so 4 places actually were used and connected together while appropriate resistance was achieved.
Moreover, I don't much about it but someone may approve/reject the following I heard from another electrician: If your ground provides VERY LOW resistance, then it is also bad, because it can work backwards, providing a path from outside to your house.
Umm. When electrician installed grounding rod for me, he did measurements. He couldn't tell how much grounding rods will I need. Because some get lucky and get tapped into undeground water and immediately gets low resistance.
In my case, we couldn't use a single spot as the rods were too hard to go in for required length, so 4 places actually were used and connected together while appropriate resistance was achieved.
Moreover, I don't much about it but someone may approve/reject the following I heard from another electrician: If your ground provides VERY LOW resistance, then it is also bad, because it can work backwards, providing a path from outside to your house.
> some get lucky and get tapped into undeground water and immediately gets low resistance.
You need to be careful about this. In many places the depth of the water table varies a lot depending on the season of the year.
Generally it sounds like your electrician was correctly following a well designed code of practice.
Regarding what the other electrician said, for current to flow there needs to be a potential difference and a circuit. In this case your house (roof, frame, etc) is very well connected to the ground it sits on. If it's a long way from your house to the transformer, with exposed overhead power lines, there could be a potential difference with those.
This is where the "level 2" (building entry point) protection mentioned by another commenter comes in. It used to involve fuse(s), heavy duty spark gap(s) and heavy duty varistor(s). I don't know about these days, but I wouldn't trust anything with active control to continue to protect after a lighting strike. Or during it.
You need to be careful about this. In many places the depth of the water table varies a lot depending on the season of the year.
Generally it sounds like your electrician was correctly following a well designed code of practice.
Regarding what the other electrician said, for current to flow there needs to be a potential difference and a circuit. In this case your house (roof, frame, etc) is very well connected to the ground it sits on. If it's a long way from your house to the transformer, with exposed overhead power lines, there could be a potential difference with those.
This is where the "level 2" (building entry point) protection mentioned by another commenter comes in. It used to involve fuse(s), heavy duty spark gap(s) and heavy duty varistor(s). I don't know about these days, but I wouldn't trust anything with active control to continue to protect after a lighting strike. Or during it.
In general, the first step is to put that grounding rod, put a big enough wire (whatever the standard is for 32A will do) from there into your house. Your ground circuit can be separate from your regular wiring, that's okay. Don't make any funny loops in the circuit, nor any connections to rebar. (Any double path to ground is a circuit when funny things happen.)
Once you got that, pull a ground wire to your panel as well and install a surge protector. This goes after the main switch, before any RCD. (It basically passes any surge into the ground, tripping the main switch if big enough.)
Then install RCDs, if you don't have any. They'll trip if the power pulled from live and neutral somehow mismatches. Which ones to get depends on your type of panel and loads.
Once you got that, pull a ground wire to your panel as well and install a surge protector. This goes after the main switch, before any RCD. (It basically passes any surge into the ground, tripping the main switch if big enough.)
Then install RCDs, if you don't have any. They'll trip if the power pulled from live and neutral somehow mismatches. Which ones to get depends on your type of panel and loads.
If you're the tallest thing for 200m and in an area with frequent lightning storms, you should get a lightning rod installed.
It's just a metal rod from the tallest bit of your building to the ground. It can be installed without much specialist skill, so should be cheap.
With that, the rest of your electrics will be fine in the future.
To repair your outlets, call a local electrician. It will probably just require a new breaker in the fusebox (breakers get damaged if lightning levels of current flow through them, then then they will refuse to turn on). The PSU is probably repairable if you find an electronics guy - it will need new diodes right at the input. Maybe a new fusable resistor too. But if youre paying USA labour rates, it's cheaper to just buy a new PSU.
It's just a metal rod from the tallest bit of your building to the ground. It can be installed without much specialist skill, so should be cheap.
With that, the rest of your electrics will be fine in the future.
To repair your outlets, call a local electrician. It will probably just require a new breaker in the fusebox (breakers get damaged if lightning levels of current flow through them, then then they will refuse to turn on). The PSU is probably repairable if you find an electronics guy - it will need new diodes right at the input. Maybe a new fusable resistor too. But if youre paying USA labour rates, it's cheaper to just buy a new PSU.
> Any suggestions on what to do next?
IMMEDIATELY turn off the power at the main circuit breaker.
NEXT, get a registered/bonded electrician to thoroughly inspect and test your building's power feed, its circuits, its grounding, and its surge protection equipment.
Until you do this, your building is a fire trap waiting to strike.
The building's surge/overvoltage protective devices should all be replaced, or some installed if there weren't any.
Some or all of the wiring may need to be replaced if its insulation was crisped.
Next, get all your electrical appliances checked for safety.
IMMEDIATELY turn off the power at the main circuit breaker.
NEXT, get a registered/bonded electrician to thoroughly inspect and test your building's power feed, its circuits, its grounding, and its surge protection equipment.
Until you do this, your building is a fire trap waiting to strike.
The building's surge/overvoltage protective devices should all be replaced, or some installed if there weren't any.
Some or all of the wiring may need to be replaced if its insulation was crisped.
Next, get all your electrical appliances checked for safety.
The foolproof method is to unplug electronics when thunderstorms come.
And not just the power cables. Network (and phone) cables, too. They're effectively long antennae. I've lost Ethernet ports and DSL boxes to lightning.
If said electronics are connected to a power outlet with an on/off switch, would the electricity surge find its way into the appliance when the outlet is in the off position?
It would only have to jump a 1"ish gap, so maybe
Usually more like a 2 to 4 mm gap. A direct strike won’t even notice that. It already jumped thousands of meters lol. I’ve had electronics destroyed sitting on a wooden table that weren’t even plugged in (battery powered) when lightning struck a tree 10 meters from my house. I don’t think there was any arcing to my house, so it was most likely just EMP from the blast (which blew small parts of the tree through exterior and interior walls into the living room)
I’m now in the process of finishing my new all concrete house with 12” solid walls lol. Screw lightning. It’s not a rational reaction, but it’s my reaction.
I’m now in the process of finishing my new all concrete house with 12” solid walls lol. Screw lightning. It’s not a rational reaction, but it’s my reaction.
A regular switch is no match for a lightning strike, there is only a small air gap and it does not take much for an arc to jump over it.
You can often see this even with your regular mains voltage, especially if you have some inductive load (anything with a transformer) attached. A small spark arc is visible when you flick the switch.
You can often see this even with your regular mains voltage, especially if you have some inductive load (anything with a transformer) attached. A small spark arc is visible when you flick the switch.
This is what I do too. I web host a couple of sites for friends locally but when I have an overnight lightning alert I notify them, turn off everything and pull the plugs.
Updated the post. It sounded like it was an ad for an UPS and it is not, so I rewrote parts of it. Sorry about that
Grounding is important for shunting the surge to ground.
Keep in mind: surge protectors and UPSes are not necessarily going to prevent damage directly caused by lightning. Lightning has a lot of energy and is high frequency and can make its own paths to ground through and around protective devices.
Lightning strikes cause power outages in a larger area. When power returns, you can get a high voltage surge. This is what surge protection suppresses and protects against.
Keep in mind: surge protectors and UPSes are not necessarily going to prevent damage directly caused by lightning. Lightning has a lot of energy and is high frequency and can make its own paths to ground through and around protective devices.
Lightning strikes cause power outages in a larger area. When power returns, you can get a high voltage surge. This is what surge protection suppresses and protects against.
> There was a bright white flash inside of my living room, just under an open window and directly above the my UPS surge protector and then all my devices turned off including the surge projector. The PSU in one of the computers is gone, but not the motherboard and rest.
Sounds like a perfectly cromulent outcome to me, if accurate, you're actually pretty lucky.
Sounds like a perfectly cromulent outcome to me, if accurate, you're actually pretty lucky.
It is accurate. I had a spare PSU and the computer boots just fine and I am still here :)
It's quite likely that the stuff connected to your UPS is also burned out. I hope you are lucky and it is not.
If your hard disk is a magnetic one rather than an SSD, it's possible that the data will have survived, even if the electronics died. HD retrieval companies work by swapping the media with a working device of the exact same model.
If your hard disk is a magnetic one rather than an SSD, it's possible that the data will have survived, even if the electronics died. HD retrieval companies work by swapping the media with a working device of the exact same model.
Lightning struck very close to my apartment and fried all equipment that was connected using Ethernet cable (cable modem/ router/VOIP unit, Roku). My TV was spared.
The apartment has a circuit breaker (which tripped) and I have a surge protector as well.
Did some research and read that a Surge protector with "Catastrophic Event protection" feature would have helped. This feature fries the surge protector instead of the equipment connected to it. A note from the mfr of the product I am considering buying: "most surge suppressors continue to let power through even after circuits have been damaged, leaving your equipment exposed to other damaging surges." The surge protector I have does mention that power will pass thru it, if power surge is more than what the suppressor can handle. HTH.
The apartment has a circuit breaker (which tripped) and I have a surge protector as well.
Did some research and read that a Surge protector with "Catastrophic Event protection" feature would have helped. This feature fries the surge protector instead of the equipment connected to it. A note from the mfr of the product I am considering buying: "most surge suppressors continue to let power through even after circuits have been damaged, leaving your equipment exposed to other damaging surges." The surge protector I have does mention that power will pass thru it, if power surge is more than what the suppressor can handle. HTH.
osamagirl69 and tuatoro have given you some good advice. Sadly (yet predictably) the rest is misguided, wrong, or dangerous.
To emphasize tuatoro's points, it appears some of your branch circuits were damaged by the strike. Their wiring needs to be inspected to see if the insulation was compromised. If yes, the wiring needs to be replaced. The dead kitchen appliances need to be evaluated for safety -- they could now be an electrocution risk.
Many of the comments display a dangerous (and common) misunderstanding of the purpose of a grounding rod. The language used for this topic is confusing, which doesn't help.
The important thing to know is: A GROUNDING ROD IS NOT A SAFETY GROUND.
Article 250 of the US National Electric Code covers "grounding" and "bonding." Note the two different words. "Grounding" (connect to earth) is done to limit voltage induced by lightening, line surges, or unintentional contact with higher-voltage lines.
"Bonding" is the connecting metal parts of enclosures, cases, and equipment to the supply source via an effective ground-fault current path. Bonding is what provides safety. This is what most people think of as the green "grounding" wire (in the code, called the "equipment grounding conductor."
Note it says "to the supply source." In your case, the source is the house 200 m away feeding your panel. The cable from that house should be 4 or 5 conductors, one of which is the equipment grounding conductor ("ground wire"). If the cable does not include the equipment grounding conductor, the cable MUST be replaced. It is not safe to run a separate wire back for the grounding conductor.
See this document on article 250 requirements:
https://www.mikeholt.com/instructor2/img/product/pdf/20NCT2-...
Thailand has 230 V / 50 Hz service, but the grounding and bonding principles are the same.
To emphasize tuatoro's points, it appears some of your branch circuits were damaged by the strike. Their wiring needs to be inspected to see if the insulation was compromised. If yes, the wiring needs to be replaced. The dead kitchen appliances need to be evaluated for safety -- they could now be an electrocution risk.
Many of the comments display a dangerous (and common) misunderstanding of the purpose of a grounding rod. The language used for this topic is confusing, which doesn't help.
The important thing to know is: A GROUNDING ROD IS NOT A SAFETY GROUND.
Article 250 of the US National Electric Code covers "grounding" and "bonding." Note the two different words. "Grounding" (connect to earth) is done to limit voltage induced by lightening, line surges, or unintentional contact with higher-voltage lines.
"Bonding" is the connecting metal parts of enclosures, cases, and equipment to the supply source via an effective ground-fault current path. Bonding is what provides safety. This is what most people think of as the green "grounding" wire (in the code, called the "equipment grounding conductor."
Note it says "to the supply source." In your case, the source is the house 200 m away feeding your panel. The cable from that house should be 4 or 5 conductors, one of which is the equipment grounding conductor ("ground wire"). If the cable does not include the equipment grounding conductor, the cable MUST be replaced. It is not safe to run a separate wire back for the grounding conductor.
See this document on article 250 requirements:
https://www.mikeholt.com/instructor2/img/product/pdf/20NCT2-...
Thailand has 230 V / 50 Hz service, but the grounding and bonding principles are the same.
Thank you
> my house is the tallest thing around and we frequently have huge thunderstorms
Dude. Install a lightning rod.
Dude. Install a lightning rod.
Some surge protectors have a warranty that will reimburse you up to some amount for any equipment that gets fried while plugged into it. I've never tried to make a claim on these, but it might be worth looking into if yours offers anything.
Name and shame the surge protector brand/model you used. I've seen them make outrageous warranty/guarantee promises between $10,000 and $100,000 so it might be worth using that to replace some of your hardware.
For everything else - you need an electrician. It's not as easy as just a "big metal stick somewhere in the garden" -- get someone (else) out to actually inspect and deal with it. The reason being is that IMO: your surge protection devices shouldn't have fried if they were properly grounded. So the previous electricians might not have properly grounded your property.
For everything else - you need an electrician. It's not as easy as just a "big metal stick somewhere in the garden" -- get someone (else) out to actually inspect and deal with it. The reason being is that IMO: your surge protection devices shouldn't have fried if they were properly grounded. So the previous electricians might not have properly grounded your property.
Surge protection devices are designed to sacrificially fry in a last ditch attempt to protect the electronic devices downstream. The report that the power supply was the only thing that failed when unprotected electric MOTORS in his house were fried (very hard to do) says the the protection device actually did a phenomenal job given the circumstances.
Lightning is not generally possible to protect against in nonconducting residential structures except with lightning rods and other devices designed to divert the strike. Even then the protection is not complete. Steel clad steel buildings are exceptionally resistant, but even in this ideal case, a direct strike can destroy equipment through the EMP and differing potentials generated within the structure.
Lightning protection is a achieved through defense in depth. Utility level, distribution level, then a protector at the service entrance, then circuit protection, then outlet (plug in) protection, then in device protection. If the lightning skips any of these steps by striking inside of these rings of protection, anything inside is going to face extreme challenges and is very likely to be damaged. You can’t trivially absorb or divert 10-1000 terawatts of power. It’s enough to heat air to 20,000c and to instantly vaporize a third of a cubic meter of sand. You just can’t easily protect against that kind of energy. It’s equivalent to protecting your house from suffering damage if a small commuter aircraft crashed into it.
It’s possible, but it requires extreme measures… not just plugging something into an outlet.
Lightning is not generally possible to protect against in nonconducting residential structures except with lightning rods and other devices designed to divert the strike. Even then the protection is not complete. Steel clad steel buildings are exceptionally resistant, but even in this ideal case, a direct strike can destroy equipment through the EMP and differing potentials generated within the structure.
Lightning protection is a achieved through defense in depth. Utility level, distribution level, then a protector at the service entrance, then circuit protection, then outlet (plug in) protection, then in device protection. If the lightning skips any of these steps by striking inside of these rings of protection, anything inside is going to face extreme challenges and is very likely to be damaged. You can’t trivially absorb or divert 10-1000 terawatts of power. It’s enough to heat air to 20,000c and to instantly vaporize a third of a cubic meter of sand. You just can’t easily protect against that kind of energy. It’s equivalent to protecting your house from suffering damage if a small commuter aircraft crashed into it.
It’s possible, but it requires extreme measures… not just plugging something into an outlet.
I'd love to hear what consumer-grade UPS you've seen offering protection from direct hit lightning. They'd be very stupid to offer any guarantee against that.
Tripp Lite and CyberPower are two off the top of my head.
A well-balanced mix of sales, statistics and insurance probably:)
>The PSU in one of the computers is gone, but not the motherboard and rest.
I had this happen to me, but I think it hit a phone line (back in the ADSL days) - and it caught more components then I initial thought, the ones that went under the radar were the RAMs.
The symptom was decompressing RAR files, sometimes it would give errors. The HDD also started to act oddly, so you should probably run some tests to see if everything is ok.
I had this happen to me, but I think it hit a phone line (back in the ADSL days) - and it caught more components then I initial thought, the ones that went under the radar were the RAMs.
The symptom was decompressing RAR files, sometimes it would give errors. The HDD also started to act oddly, so you should probably run some tests to see if everything is ok.
My favorite resource is this: https://www.w8ji.com/house_ground_layouts.htm He has many years of experience with lightening, big towers, and electronics. It sounds like you still have a poor ground.
If you want protection against lightning strikes, you’ll want to add a surge protective device to your electrical panel that has a fault current rating of at least 100kAIC. Surge protectors for panelboards are required for residential electrical services, the change was implemented in the 2020 NEC.
This happened to me, somehow lightning caused some kind of surge in my Ethernet network and killed ports on 3 of my computers. Turns out cheap switches aren’t grounded, you have to manually put a wire on a screw. Sucks!
Three words:
Get. An. Electrician.
Get. An. Electrician.
Difficult to get a competent Electrician if he is in Thailand in the middle of nowhere.
There's a lot to be said for countries with decent certification systems for electricians and I'm pretty sure Thailand doesn't come close to having that.
There's a lot to be said for countries with decent certification systems for electricians and I'm pretty sure Thailand doesn't come close to having that.
I live on an small remote island. We only have two certified electricians and they are all super busy on constructions sites and don't have the time for this type of problems. We have Thai "electric men" at our disposal. When he did they grounding of the sockets I was very impressed with that he did not turn of the electricity at any point.
> Difficult to get a competent Electrician if he is in Thailand in the middle of nowhere.
OK fine, but what exactly is the poster expecting from the HN community ?
Nobody competent should be giving the guy advice without a site inspection.
OK fine, but what exactly is the poster expecting from the HN community ?
Nobody competent should be giving the guy advice without a site inspection.
This is one of the benefits of the US that no one really talks about - the availability of real expertise.
In Thailand I'm willing to bet electricians aren't licensed and you're going to gamble if the local electrician you call has the ability to problem solve issues like this.
In Thailand I'm willing to bet electricians aren't licensed and you're going to gamble if the local electrician you call has the ability to problem solve issues like this.
IME, there are very competent electricians in Thailand but they are usually working on commercial or industrial sites. Otherwise, you can get lucky sometimes but more often than not they'll do "good enough" work that nonetheless has safety risks.
what you need, in addition to surge protection at the electrical device, is a whole house surge protector. It will stop the lightning strike immediately. Mine was 120.00USD plus 75.00 to install. totally worth it. These are used in place of lighting rods.
https://www.thisoldhouse.com/electrical/21194149/how-effecti...
https://www.thisoldhouse.com/electrical/21194149/how-effecti...
I got one of these mounted to panel, and have avoided all problems since then. Easy to install to the power distribution panel, relatively inexpensive, and no maintenance.
Was your ethernet cable surge protected?
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My computers were connected to an UPS surge projector. Various kitchen machinery and extension sockets that was not doesn't work anymore. The neighbor's TV blew.
There was a bright white flash inside of my living room, just under an open window and directly above the my UPS surge protector and then all my devices turned off including the surge projector. The PSU in one of the computers is gone, but not the motherboard and rest.
I was sitting on the concrete floor in the middle of the room watching it happen.
I live in Thailand in the middle of a big flat coconut groove with only two houses. Except for the palm trees, my house is the tallest structure in a 200 x 200 meters (300 feet)+ area and we have frequent huge thunder storms, but this one was in a category on its own. It made my concrete walls tremble. It was so intense. Spectacular show by nature.
Only two months ago, I bought a socket outlet tester. It reported that my sockets was not grounded. I got an electricians out to fix that. I suspect this is the reason why the lightning chooses me. We have frequent big thunderstorms and haven't had this issue before, but now there is a ground connection.
I don't know if there is a proper grounding rod. There is a cable going from the house into the ground, but I don't know what it is attached too. The rest of the electric installation is amateur's business so could be connected to nothing. The house is a long-term rental and the electric installation came with it, but I can change it regardless of it's is a rental.
The electricity doesn't even come directly from the power company's cables. It goes in to the owners house, where the meter is. From there they have pulled a 200 meter cable into ours. There is a fuse box in my house.
Any suggestions on what to do next? A big metal stick somewhere in the garden?