Reasons to tour by bicycle(kk.org)
kk.org
Reasons to tour by bicycle
https://kk.org/thetechnium/reasons-to-tour-by-bicycle/
219 comments
As someone who deeply agrees with this, and yet just spent most of the day in A&E thanks to a car driver who was not looking, we as a society need to rethink our built infrastructure.
Over the next few decades we have to change so much infrastructure to solar / electrification that we have an enormous opportunity to make it not just a question of survival but a better civilisation - more human.
Cities where every child can cycle to school on car free paths, every worker can get to work on car free paths.
Hell it even makes carbon sense to get rid of petrol cars in favour of diesel buses.
The design of our lives environments is a force multiplier for our quality of life
Over the next few decades we have to change so much infrastructure to solar / electrification that we have an enormous opportunity to make it not just a question of survival but a better civilisation - more human.
Cities where every child can cycle to school on car free paths, every worker can get to work on car free paths.
Hell it even makes carbon sense to get rid of petrol cars in favour of diesel buses.
The design of our lives environments is a force multiplier for our quality of life
I get what you're saying but you ever tried biking in Amsterdam at rush hour? There's just as much congestion. Nobody's going to die in a crash though, I'll give you that. But the experience itself is more crowded.
I think what you're looking for is a more rural existence.
I think what you're looking for is a more rural existence.
> I think what you're looking for is a more rural existence.
Speaking for myself, absolutely not. The amount of things available in cities compared to rural areas is immense. I’ve lived in both.
Theater, music venues, libraries, restaurants, beer gardens, good food markets, schools. I have all of this writhing walking and biking distance. You don’t get that in rural areas without needing a car.
Speaking for myself, absolutely not. The amount of things available in cities compared to rural areas is immense. I’ve lived in both.
Theater, music venues, libraries, restaurants, beer gardens, good food markets, schools. I have all of this writhing walking and biking distance. You don’t get that in rural areas without needing a car.
Rural areas are actually bike-averse. No shoulders, high speed limits, drunk drivers, asshole angry white guy pickup truck drivers, conservative contempt for "liberal" bicyclists.
They SHOULD be better but... no.
Then again my urban experience is Minneapolis St Paul, possibly the most bike-able city outside of winter I've seen.
They SHOULD be better but... no.
Then again my urban experience is Minneapolis St Paul, possibly the most bike-able city outside of winter I've seen.
i just saw the same in a documentary about biking in germany. major roads in rural areas have absolutely no space for bikes. cars go at the speed limit, and riding a bike from one village to the next is more dangerous than any city.
It depends. Many major roads have separate bike paths and if they don't there's always the option to use smaller, less travelled side roads but you have to plan your route in that case.
It's certainly not as bleak as you describe.
It's certainly not as bleak as you describe.
well that situation was what was shown in the documentary. i can't say how common that is, but given the cost and notorious lack of funds i think it is more common than we like. i could be wrong though. we could use google streetview to check.
as for alternative roads, that really depends. generally from my experience between two neighboring villages there tends to be only one road, unless you want to make a big detour. sometimes alternate roads exist when and old main road is replaced with a new one on a different route.
as for alternative roads, that really depends. generally from my experience between two neighboring villages there tends to be only one road, unless you want to make a big detour. sometimes alternate roads exist when and old main road is replaced with a new one on a different route.
I do / have done the London cycle superhighway at rush hour - it's pretty much the same deal (although i would call any electric bikes "powered" and question if they should be on the same path / as powerful).
The point is if there was a dedicated (about a metre wide, cut off from road traffic by a raised kerb) cycle lane not just through Londons busiest roads but ... well everywhere there is a car road.
Just say if you want a car there you should also have a bicycle.
We seem to think that the industrial revolution chnaged something - like globally there should be some kind of "profit".
I think it's just we as a species get to still be at a subsistence level, just a higher subsistence level.
NB- re london cycleways - yeah people do die. The cannon street path was opposite the LFB station and they did not have far to go to wash the blood away sadly.
The point is if there was a dedicated (about a metre wide, cut off from road traffic by a raised kerb) cycle lane not just through Londons busiest roads but ... well everywhere there is a car road.
Just say if you want a car there you should also have a bicycle.
We seem to think that the industrial revolution chnaged something - like globally there should be some kind of "profit".
I think it's just we as a species get to still be at a subsistence level, just a higher subsistence level.
NB- re london cycleways - yeah people do die. The cannon street path was opposite the LFB station and they did not have far to go to wash the blood away sadly.
> although i would call any electric bikes "powered" and question if they should be on the same path / as powerful
Sort of agree, although an electric assist (for people who aren't in great shape, to get over hills) might be an exception. Limit it to 15mph or whatever.
Sort of agree, although an electric assist (for people who aren't in great shape, to get over hills) might be an exception. Limit it to 15mph or whatever.
Like the sibling mentioned, a pedal assist makes intersections safer - at least, it seems that way here in the southeast of the US. Barreling through a walkway and endangering the people around them is the problem, but it is kind of difficult to sell a bike with the potential for the former that doesn't have the latter as well.
It would be so nice to share most roads - but like op mentioned traveling through the historical European sites, the greenways being built here are approximating that. It is changing our city government significantly. Hope it is yours as well.
It would be so nice to share most roads - but like op mentioned traveling through the historical European sites, the greenways being built here are approximating that. It is changing our city government significantly. Hope it is yours as well.
I'm daily cycling through Amsterdam (City center) at rush hours (8 am, 5 pm), it's busy but no congestion (longer than 10 seconds). But you definitely need some cycling skills and know your way around.
It's still easily twice as fast as trying to do the same route by car.
> I think what you're looking for is a more rural existence.
People tend to forget that while there are benefits in increasing density, they don't continue ad infinitum.
People tend to forget that while there are benefits in increasing density, they don't continue ad infinitum.
That’s not categorically good for everyone. This means we will need to have dense living conditions. A lot of people would much rather live in semi rural areas and have a lot of land and a lower density of people. That’s pretty incompatible with not having good car infrastructure.
The problem is that rural and suburban living is heavily subsidized in relation to urban living, which has economies of scale. This doesn't even factor in things like per-capita pollution. If people who would "rather" live a certain way actually paid their fair share (i.e. for negative externalities) it'd be a different story.
Infrastructure is used for a lot of things including transportation of goods and produce. It makes no sense to further incentivize moving to cities/urban areas as they already have plenty on incentives already.
> including transportation of goods and produce
Forgive me, if your rural land is on a major interstate then I definitely agree! For every branch off that major arterial the road becomes more and more specific to a few number of people, who rarely pay the full cost of the road/utilities that service them.
> It makes no sense to further incentivize moving to cities
I'm not asking for any incentives. I'm asking to stop sending my money to highway expansion, road repair and other services to people who live very sparsely. Let them pay for the extension (and maintenance) of service themselves, and then they can decide whether they would "rather" live there.
Forgive me, if your rural land is on a major interstate then I definitely agree! For every branch off that major arterial the road becomes more and more specific to a few number of people, who rarely pay the full cost of the road/utilities that service them.
> It makes no sense to further incentivize moving to cities
I'm not asking for any incentives. I'm asking to stop sending my money to highway expansion, road repair and other services to people who live very sparsely. Let them pay for the extension (and maintenance) of service themselves, and then they can decide whether they would "rather" live there.
You’re inadvertently arguing against having a nation wide road system. In your ideal would cities be isolated? Have most of the country inaccessible to people? Have no small towns or villages? Have nothing quaint, no national parks, beach towns or farming communities? I don’t think you’ve thought this through.
You're effectively saying my family (in a city) should keep paying to make your life equivalent cost to a city life. I'm saying your life should come with the full cost of the burden it bears, that's all. We'll still have farming communities and beach towns but they can price their externalities in.
As an aside, it's a wild stretch to pull the national park system and state beaches into "I, one person, prefer to have multiple acres to myself", as if these programs exist so that you can live X many miles away from anything, for free.
As an aside, it's a wild stretch to pull the national park system and state beaches into "I, one person, prefer to have multiple acres to myself", as if these programs exist so that you can live X many miles away from anything, for free.
> who rarely pay the full cost of the road/utilities that service them.
There are costs that are higher in cities too, such as public housing. There are costs that are higher in mountains and in plains, in the north or the south, on the coast or inland, for commuters and people who stay home and people with kids or without, those that have ICE or electric vehicles or bikes, etc.
Allocating taxes or fees based on service usage has a lot of negative effects: 1) It's very complicated to quantify: Those rural roads also carry goods to the city, for example, and each person in the city uses those goods at different rates. 2) It requires a metering, collection, enforcement, etc. infrastructure. 3) It's divisive: Instead of bringing the community together and saying, 'this is good; we should do this together', it becomes 'you used 10 micro-whatever more but only paid X'.
Instead of spending my energy and time on fees, I think this is a much better deal: I'm happy for my neighbors, urban and rural, to do well and have what they reasonably need, and they are happy for me to do the same.
At the same time, would you happen to know about any data or research that tries to sort out the economics of #1 above?
There are costs that are higher in cities too, such as public housing. There are costs that are higher in mountains and in plains, in the north or the south, on the coast or inland, for commuters and people who stay home and people with kids or without, those that have ICE or electric vehicles or bikes, etc.
Allocating taxes or fees based on service usage has a lot of negative effects: 1) It's very complicated to quantify: Those rural roads also carry goods to the city, for example, and each person in the city uses those goods at different rates. 2) It requires a metering, collection, enforcement, etc. infrastructure. 3) It's divisive: Instead of bringing the community together and saying, 'this is good; we should do this together', it becomes 'you used 10 micro-whatever more but only paid X'.
Instead of spending my energy and time on fees, I think this is a much better deal: I'm happy for my neighbors, urban and rural, to do well and have what they reasonably need, and they are happy for me to do the same.
At the same time, would you happen to know about any data or research that tries to sort out the economics of #1 above?
I've always thought there's a way to design living conditions for this sort of thing. Like... front door leads to front porch, front yard and sidewalk / bikeway. Backdoor leads to garage and alley and/or road.
The front door would lead to the relaxed communal part of the neighborhood.
The back door would lead to driving and work and the rest.
strangely, I remember going to a friend's parents house in florida. They lived on the intercoastal waterway. The driveway lead to the garage and the front door. The back door lead to the backyard and a boat dock.
The front door would lead to the relaxed communal part of the neighborhood.
The back door would lead to driving and work and the rest.
strangely, I remember going to a friend's parents house in florida. They lived on the intercoastal waterway. The driveway lead to the garage and the front door. The back door lead to the backyard and a boat dock.
I was cycling 13 miles. I expected to do 13 back. I just wanted to do it safely. along one stretch of road there was a path to the side - inwoukd get off the main road with lorries thundering past and cycle up the path happily not going to get killed. put such a path by every stretch of main road. Rural and urban. Then do something with the other roads.
People will cycle longer if we need to and can do it safely.
People will cycle longer if we need to and can do it safely.
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I did a couple of 2000+ km tours in Europe on a... motorcycle. It's not sports, it has a big carbon footprint and gas can be expensive, but you can experience some of the same benefits: take less traveled roads, stop anywhere, meet people.
I ride a bike every day but only on short distances; on a tour I would be afraid of not being able to pack enough things (clothes, shoes...) But it's a neat idea.
I ride a bike every day but only on short distances; on a tour I would be afraid of not being able to pack enough things (clothes, shoes...) But it's a neat idea.
> on a tour I would be afraid of not being able to pack enough things
You can always start small with a weekend trip and see which of the items you packed you actually needed, and you'll find out which items you forgot to pack. If you take good note of these, you'll be a proficient and efficient packer very soon, and you'll go on trips that last for days or weeks with the exact amount of stuff you need. And at least in Europe, the next supermarket is never so far away that you can' t reach it on the next day in case you did forget something essential.
You can always start small with a weekend trip and see which of the items you packed you actually needed, and you'll find out which items you forgot to pack. If you take good note of these, you'll be a proficient and efficient packer very soon, and you'll go on trips that last for days or weeks with the exact amount of stuff you need. And at least in Europe, the next supermarket is never so far away that you can' t reach it on the next day in case you did forget something essential.
And the big one - for me - it's noisy! Bikes are utterly silent so you don't spook wildlife and the locals tend to be a lot more friendly than if you disturb their neighborhood with your motorbike.
Yeah there’s not much more magical than going round a bend on the bike and coming face to face with a stag.
He looked at me and I looked at him, didn’t seem spooked at all.
Being able to ride the quietest country roads regularly makes me really happy that I don’t live in a city.
He looked at me and I looked at him, didn’t seem spooked at all.
Being able to ride the quietest country roads regularly makes me really happy that I don’t live in a city.
A few weeks ago I almost tripped over a fairly massive wild boar, dusk at the Hoge Veluwe. Super impressive up close (and the most dangerous animal in Europe right now). Fortunately I have very good brakes :)
I think I'd have needed a new chamois if I'd have seen one of them up close... :P
It was over so fast that I didn't have time to get scared. There are quite a few of them in that area (~50) and I know it well so I'm somewhat prepared but normally you see them coming from some distance away, this one (a pretty beefy male) just sauntered out from between a bunch of trees very close to the bike trail.
I’ve got a bike with a belt drive and that’s freakishly quiet. Would recommend if you’re optimising for peace.
I really like the belt drives but I don't like the required split in the frame.
I don't ride mopeds/ scooters/ motorcycles. I've done a couple of cross country road trips. I do cycle pretty much every day for fitness, fun, and challenging myself.
But just like you did, I kinda feel like cross country road trips would be excellent on back roads via motorcycles. In a car, it's a bit disconnected and insulated. On a bike, it just seems way too slow and tiresome.
Only things I'd want in a cross country motorcycle is: a machine that's under 50 pounds, has a max speed of 50 mph (I'd prefer to keep it at 20-30 mph), goes 300 miles per gallon, and costs under $3000. SO I GUESS I WON'T BE TAKING THAT CROSS COUNTRY MOTORCYCLE TRIP EVER THEN.
But just like you did, I kinda feel like cross country road trips would be excellent on back roads via motorcycles. In a car, it's a bit disconnected and insulated. On a bike, it just seems way too slow and tiresome.
Only things I'd want in a cross country motorcycle is: a machine that's under 50 pounds, has a max speed of 50 mph (I'd prefer to keep it at 20-30 mph), goes 300 miles per gallon, and costs under $3000. SO I GUESS I WON'T BE TAKING THAT CROSS COUNTRY MOTORCYCLE TRIP EVER THEN.
You're describing my first moped: https://www.mobylette-mag.fr/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/cara...
They don't make those anymore, but they were incredibly fun to ride (and at the time, it cost 6000FF new, which translates to maybe €1000-1500 today).
They don't make those anymore, but they were incredibly fun to ride (and at the time, it cost 6000FF new, which translates to maybe €1000-1500 today).
Yeah, Honda Trail 150. But, of course, it's over 50 pounds and new over $3K.
I did both, and I think motorcycle tours and bicycle tours are very different.
On a bicycle, you'll be a lot closer to nature. A lot of paths I use are closed to motor traffic and you can't ride with a motorcycle.
On the motorcycle, you can cover more ground and see a lot more different places in the same time. Also, cars don't feel as dangerous, so you can ride roads with lots of car traffic that I wouldn't ride on a bicycle.
On a bicycle, you'll be a lot closer to nature. A lot of paths I use are closed to motor traffic and you can't ride with a motorcycle.
On the motorcycle, you can cover more ground and see a lot more different places in the same time. Also, cars don't feel as dangerous, so you can ride roads with lots of car traffic that I wouldn't ride on a bicycle.
Also you can hit the twisties with the motorcycle :) I think both are very different as well for the reasons you have mentioned. I think it depends a lot on where you want to go in what amount of time. On a weekend on the motorcycle you can travel to another country in Europe, on bike it wouldn’t be possible for me because the border is too far away. I believe it’s two different philosophies, for me the motorcycle is the middleground between car and bicycle. Depending on the motorcycle you have a different kind of freedom compared to a car.
It's still too fast for you to really take things in.
Came here to say this. Bicycling is absolute madness to me in any location that doesn't have dedicated separate bike paths. You are maximizing all possible sources of risk by riding a bicycle on shared roads.
I've ridden motorcycles since I was 16, and everyone always sees me as the daredevil. Yet, I still think bicycle commuters are the true madmen. Zero protection, can't keep up with traffic, your very presence is a psychological irritant to motorists which causes them to wish you harm, etc.
But don't take my word for it: https://youtu.be/wM8Xli2KTzI
My only advice to cyclists: put your bike on your car's bike rack, take to a bike path and enjoy. If you want to get on a road on two wheels, buy a motorcycle and wear every piece of protective gear you can afford. You (and your family) can thank me later.
I've ridden motorcycles since I was 16, and everyone always sees me as the daredevil. Yet, I still think bicycle commuters are the true madmen. Zero protection, can't keep up with traffic, your very presence is a psychological irritant to motorists which causes them to wish you harm, etc.
But don't take my word for it: https://youtu.be/wM8Xli2KTzI
My only advice to cyclists: put your bike on your car's bike rack, take to a bike path and enjoy. If you want to get on a road on two wheels, buy a motorcycle and wear every piece of protective gear you can afford. You (and your family) can thank me later.
That seems like a lot of advice from somebody who has apparently never tried it.
If you did, one of the things you'd learn is the extent to which serious cyclists minimize the risks, from route choice to gear to behavior. E.g., the first bike tour I did was about 150 miles. I found a mailing list of local riders and people were happy to discuss my route and how to handle safety issues.
In any case, you're wrong on the facts. Motorcyling is more dangerous. Deaths per 100m miles traveled is circa 25 for motorcyclists [1], while it's between 4 and 13 for people on bicycles [2]. Given that recommended touring distances for motorcyclists seem to be around 300 miles per day versus 50 for bicycles, bike touring is going to be much safer. Which only makes sense; if I'm riding at 10 mph vs 50 on a motorcycle, that's 25 times the kinetic energy that needs to get dissipated if something goes wrong.
[1] https://www.motorcyclelegalfoundation.com/motorcycle-acciden... [2] https://bicycleuniverse.com/bicycle-safety-almanac/
If you did, one of the things you'd learn is the extent to which serious cyclists minimize the risks, from route choice to gear to behavior. E.g., the first bike tour I did was about 150 miles. I found a mailing list of local riders and people were happy to discuss my route and how to handle safety issues.
In any case, you're wrong on the facts. Motorcyling is more dangerous. Deaths per 100m miles traveled is circa 25 for motorcyclists [1], while it's between 4 and 13 for people on bicycles [2]. Given that recommended touring distances for motorcyclists seem to be around 300 miles per day versus 50 for bicycles, bike touring is going to be much safer. Which only makes sense; if I'm riding at 10 mph vs 50 on a motorcycle, that's 25 times the kinetic energy that needs to get dissipated if something goes wrong.
[1] https://www.motorcyclelegalfoundation.com/motorcycle-acciden... [2] https://bicycleuniverse.com/bicycle-safety-almanac/
> one of the things you'd learn is the extent to which serious cyclists minimize the risks
At a social event which happened to include many members of the local bicycle club, I observed: Almost everyone I know who bicycles regularly has been hospitalized due to a bicycle-car accident. Is that true? Yes, they all agreed, that's about right.
IME, they don't minimize risks well. There's no safe way to ride in traffic unless it's moving near bicycle-speed. However, there are side streets, etc., so that risk could be minimized if they wanted to do it; you can cut exposure to cars by 90% easily.
At a social event which happened to include many members of the local bicycle club, I observed: Almost everyone I know who bicycles regularly has been hospitalized due to a bicycle-car accident. Is that true? Yes, they all agreed, that's about right.
IME, they don't minimize risks well. There's no safe way to ride in traffic unless it's moving near bicycle-speed. However, there are side streets, etc., so that risk could be minimized if they wanted to do it; you can cut exposure to cars by 90% easily.
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Source #2 indicates that "wrong-way" biking is more dangerous, but my intuition is that it's safer: I like being able to see the traffic that is closest to me. I guess whatever advantage that provides is more than offset by the accident being head-on, and having less time for the driver to react (and maybe there's an expectation aspect too).
AFAIK: The most important safety factor is being seen by the automobile drivers, and a disproportionate number of accidents happen at intersections and turns, including driveways. The drivers in those situations have a large cognitive load; they are looking for cars, not bicycles, and will look where they expect traffic to come from. You want to be where they are looking.
Next time you drive a car, notice where you look. Consider where a bicycle would have to be in order to noticed if you are in a hurry, distracted, trying to figure out where you are or where to go, not expecting them, etc.
Next time you drive a car, notice where you look. Consider where a bicycle would have to be in order to noticed if you are in a hurry, distracted, trying to figure out where you are or where to go, not expecting them, etc.
Think relative speed. Even a bike touring cyclist will regularly travel at speeds around 40 kph (25 mph). If you then have cars travelling at 80 kph (50 mph).
Also, you learn hearing the difference in sound a car makes as it moves over to give room.
In short, I’d wager that < 0.5% of all people that have done any sort of serious biking would prefer to ride against traffic.
Also, you learn hearing the difference in sound a car makes as it moves over to give room.
In short, I’d wager that < 0.5% of all people that have done any sort of serious biking would prefer to ride against traffic.
Per the reference in the article above (http://www.bicyclinglife.com/Library/riskfactors.htm) 8% of bicyclists were going against traffic.
Yeah relative speed goes hand-in-hand with head-on collision and less reaction time and expectation that I mentioned. I do bike a fair amount, but not on major roads. I am coming to realize that going with traffic is safer, despite it being hard to see cars coming from behind you. I also didn't realize that it's illegal in most places to bike against traffic https://roadbikebasics.com/ride-with-or-against-traffic/
Yeah relative speed goes hand-in-hand with head-on collision and less reaction time and expectation that I mentioned. I do bike a fair amount, but not on major roads. I am coming to realize that going with traffic is safer, despite it being hard to see cars coming from behind you. I also didn't realize that it's illegal in most places to bike against traffic https://roadbikebasics.com/ride-with-or-against-traffic/
You can get mirrors on your handlebars or helmet if you lack situational awareness. I did this for my bike and it's a huge help, the Spintech drop bar mirrors are sleek and unobtrusive.
I find that focusing on the mirror, aligning it in a useful way, dealing with other issues (vibrations, etc.), and then interpreting what I see in a small mirror (which might need to be realigned to see what I need) - it all takes too long. I'm much better off just turning my head - it's faster and I have better situational awareness while I'm doing it.
Bicycle mirrors aren't comparable to automobile mirrors: Car mirrors are stable in alignment - your body is in a relatively fixed position in the driver seat and so are the mirrors relative to you and the car. On a bicycle, your handlebars are moving frequently as is your head. The whole bicycle vibrates far more than a car, sometimes making the mirrors unusable. Cars have space for more and bigger mirrors.
(Also, isn't it risky attaching anything to your helmet? In an accident, as far as I know, it can both change the helmet's performance properties and also get jammed into your head.)
Bicycle mirrors aren't comparable to automobile mirrors: Car mirrors are stable in alignment - your body is in a relatively fixed position in the driver seat and so are the mirrors relative to you and the car. On a bicycle, your handlebars are moving frequently as is your head. The whole bicycle vibrates far more than a car, sometimes making the mirrors unusable. Cars have space for more and bigger mirrors.
(Also, isn't it risky attaching anything to your helmet? In an accident, as far as I know, it can both change the helmet's performance properties and also get jammed into your head.)
I'd add Garmin's Varia radar as a better (yet more expensive) alternative to a mirror. It's a bike light combined with a radar that will track and display cars coming up behind you on your bike computer (doesn't have to be a Garmin unit since the standard is open to everyone). Many cyclists who tired it (including me) won't ride without one.
Could you say a bit more about why you like it? I was thinking about getting back into touring and I just recently learned about them. Previously I was using a mirror that attached to my glasses, which seemed adequate. The radar seemed interesting, but I was concerned that it would more be in the "cute toy" category for me.
Sorry, just noticed your reply.
A lot of people consider it a cute gadget before they tried it and regard as essential safety tool once they did. It certainly depends on your use case - in busy cities it's useless since you'll be alerted to cars constantly. However in my area I ride on countless long stretches of road with little to moderate traffic. Cars will surprise you on these kind of roads. Sometimes you don't hear or notice them.
With the Varia radar I'm much more aware of my surroundings. I can take up the middle of the road until a car approaches. I won't be surprised by cars I fail to hear due to strong winds or other noise. I know when it's safe to slalom around obstacles on the street. Or when to do a left turn (I'd still look but I'm not sure if the radar ever missed a car - it's very reliable). These days I'd feel almost naked without my radar.
Plus, don't forget that it's also a very good rear light which you can control from your head unit. Don't underestimate the importance of daytime lights in order to be noticed by cars - that is the single most important measure to avoid accidents on a bike.
A lot of people consider it a cute gadget before they tried it and regard as essential safety tool once they did. It certainly depends on your use case - in busy cities it's useless since you'll be alerted to cars constantly. However in my area I ride on countless long stretches of road with little to moderate traffic. Cars will surprise you on these kind of roads. Sometimes you don't hear or notice them.
With the Varia radar I'm much more aware of my surroundings. I can take up the middle of the road until a car approaches. I won't be surprised by cars I fail to hear due to strong winds or other noise. I know when it's safe to slalom around obstacles on the street. Or when to do a left turn (I'd still look but I'm not sure if the radar ever missed a car - it's very reliable). These days I'd feel almost naked without my radar.
Plus, don't forget that it's also a very good rear light which you can control from your head unit. Don't underestimate the importance of daytime lights in order to be noticed by cars - that is the single most important measure to avoid accidents on a bike.
The problem is drivers seeing you. If you are in a serious crash it is probably going to be because they hit you, not from you hitting them. Motorists look for other road users they may be overtaking, but usually don’t expect to see oncoming traffic in their lane
I don't have a car. Cyclists don't need your advice, we know it's increasing our risk to ride around idiot drivers.
Let's change the rhetoric from "cycling is dangerous" to "driving a car is a serious responsibility".
Let's change the rhetoric from "cycling is dangerous" to "driving a car is a serious responsibility".
> Came here to say this. Bicycling is absolute madness to me in any location that doesn't have dedicated separate bike paths. You are maximizing all possible sources of risk by riding a bicycle on shared roads.
> I've ridden motorcycles since I was 16, and everyone always sees me as the daredevil. Yet, I still think bicycle commuters are the true madmen. Zero protection, can't keep up with traffic, your very presence is a psychological irritant to motorists which causes them to wish you harm, etc.
> But don't take my word for it: https://youtu.be/wM8Xli2KTzI
Whatever one might think about the general premise, but this video is absolute rubbish. All the little example videos he puts in is of people riding on crazy tuned e-bikes or downhill bikes etc.. On the other hand the few instances of motorcycling videos show him just riding along in traffic, a bit disingenuous.
> My only advice to cyclists: put your bike on your car's bike rack, take to a bike path and enjoy. If you want to get on a road on two wheels, buy a motorcycle and wear every piece of protective gear you can afford. You (and your family) can thank me later.
Considering that the article points to bike paths off general roads your post is a bit redundant.
I would still question your premise. You ride a motorbike beside the fact that motorcycle deaths and serious injuries outstrip cycling ones by quite a margin (it's right there in the video you posted). So I guess safety is not your main priority. Moreover, if we consider overall health benefits you will live longer if you commute by bike, so if health is your priority you should absolute bike.
> I've ridden motorcycles since I was 16, and everyone always sees me as the daredevil. Yet, I still think bicycle commuters are the true madmen. Zero protection, can't keep up with traffic, your very presence is a psychological irritant to motorists which causes them to wish you harm, etc.
> But don't take my word for it: https://youtu.be/wM8Xli2KTzI
Whatever one might think about the general premise, but this video is absolute rubbish. All the little example videos he puts in is of people riding on crazy tuned e-bikes or downhill bikes etc.. On the other hand the few instances of motorcycling videos show him just riding along in traffic, a bit disingenuous.
> My only advice to cyclists: put your bike on your car's bike rack, take to a bike path and enjoy. If you want to get on a road on two wheels, buy a motorcycle and wear every piece of protective gear you can afford. You (and your family) can thank me later.
Considering that the article points to bike paths off general roads your post is a bit redundant.
I would still question your premise. You ride a motorbike beside the fact that motorcycle deaths and serious injuries outstrip cycling ones by quite a margin (it's right there in the video you posted). So I guess safety is not your main priority. Moreover, if we consider overall health benefits you will live longer if you commute by bike, so if health is your priority you should absolute bike.
The comment more sums up what is wrong with current society than with biking: people in 2T metal boxes feel entitled to own the road, plus get totally stressed out if they see anything that prevents them from doing it and perform risky maneuvers.
The answer to that problem should not be pushing weaker participants off the road.
The answer to that problem should not be pushing weaker participants off the road.
The Highway and Automobile culture are symbols of totalitarian cultures which deny people more sustainable and equitable alternatives for mobility and transport. - Vandana Shiva (2004)
The perception from driving is not true to reality. For example, most busy roadw are completely empty about 70 to 95% of the time. To explain, off-peak, most roads are just quiet. Further, there are a lot of roads, plenty of ways to go from a connector to something less used (arguably too many roads). Then, most traffic are in convoys created by stop lights. This I wan tg to emphasize, the person in a convoy with 2 cars on each side of them feel like they are on a congested street. They do not realize they are the first cars for 3 minutes on that specific vacant stretch of road, and they will leave that stretch of road vacant moments later. There are lots more examples of how it really is a different experience compared to what people think it would be from just looking out a car window.
On the same hacker news page as this article, is this one: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-16/why-franc...
Seemingly, car traffic is just straight up dangerous in the US (to everyone). It's normalized how dangerous car traffic is, there are plenty of car crashes every day that kill and maim, yet we feel so comfortable driving we hardly pay diligent attention and have very absurdly low standards for who can get and keep a drivers license.
Seemingly, car traffic is just straight up dangerous in the US (to everyone). It's normalized how dangerous car traffic is, there are plenty of car crashes every day that kill and maim, yet we feel so comfortable driving we hardly pay diligent attention and have very absurdly low standards for who can get and keep a drivers license.
Love riding but doing that next to high speed cars and trucks sucks.
That doesn’t get to you?
That doesn’t get to you?
In many places there's a network of tiny little roads that are a much more enjoyable alternative to riding next to traffic. This is certainly true of most of Europe, but also large parts of the US as well - I had a great cycling holiday a few years back in New York State and most of the roads were no busier than here in the UK. Ironically the single worst road was one south of Kingston which was a state-designated bike route!
I run cycle.travel, a touring-focused bike routeplanner (based on OpenStreetMap data, of course) which aims to find these roads. It generally won't find as direct a cycle route as some of the bigger names, but by and large the route should be quieter and less stressful. https://cycle.travel/map - always happy to hear comments/suggestions!
I run cycle.travel, a touring-focused bike routeplanner (based on OpenStreetMap data, of course) which aims to find these roads. It generally won't find as direct a cycle route as some of the bigger names, but by and large the route should be quieter and less stressful. https://cycle.travel/map - always happy to hear comments/suggestions!
Another happy fan here. So far I’ve used it for a couple of 5-10 day tours to great success (I’m in northern Europe). In fact, I just finished one a couple of days ago.
One thing I’ve noticed is the routing’s great aversion to hills. As someone who doesn’t mind them I would sometimes like to be able to toggle that. (It’s not a big problem, cycle.travel is beyond anything I’ve tried, it certainly beats the 1:200 000 maps of old.)
One thing I’ve noticed is the routing’s great aversion to hills. As someone who doesn’t mind them I would sometimes like to be able to toggle that. (It’s not a big problem, cycle.travel is beyond anything I’ve tried, it certainly beats the 1:200 000 maps of old.)
This is a work of art. I check out different cycle routing options every couple of years and have never been satisfied with the high number of intersections with traffic lights and changes from road to bike path to sidewalk...
Your routing algorithm taking into account Eurovelo routes is an amazing idea. Will test in the coming days!
I suggest you show input validation hints before submitting forms, e.g. for the user name.
I suggest you show input validation hints before submitting forms, e.g. for the user name.
That is a great looking site, I'll give it a try and be sure to remember it for telling others. I love how you can pick a point and look for nearby campsites.
Normally I plan my tour routes offline using downloaded OSM maps (something like velomap.org) in QMapshack. One thing I like doing on there is having POIs I can turn on/off with things like UNESCO World Heritage Sites, National Trust Sites, World Wonders from the Civilization games etc. so I can tweak my route to connect a few of those dots if it goes near them.
Normally I plan my tour routes offline using downloaded OSM maps (something like velomap.org) in QMapshack. One thing I like doing on there is having POIs I can turn on/off with things like UNESCO World Heritage Sites, National Trust Sites, World Wonders from the Civilization games etc. so I can tweak my route to connect a few of those dots if it goes near them.
Just to say I love cycle.travel. I have used it for several medium-length tours with kids and it suggests good, calm routes.
Cool resource, but I could see a key that tells me what the different symbols on the maps mean.
cycle.travel is the best, thanks (also here :) ) for making it!
thanks for creating cycle.travel, this is a really great resource!
I don't know about conditions anywhere in the world except the USA. But I've ridden across the USA, on different routes, multiple times.
When bicycle touring in this country, you don't usually (almost never, in my case) do bike touring on roads that carry heavy traffic. You ride on mostly empty roads that have very low traffic counts. Every state compiles Average Annual Daily Traffic (AADT) statistics. There are roads where you might see one or two cars an hour.
Those are the roads to ride on.
When bicycle touring in this country, you don't usually (almost never, in my case) do bike touring on roads that carry heavy traffic. You ride on mostly empty roads that have very low traffic counts. Every state compiles Average Annual Daily Traffic (AADT) statistics. There are roads where you might see one or two cars an hour.
Those are the roads to ride on.
I’ve done a couple of tours years back in Europe.
I did a few multi-day charity rides here in California. Some of those included stints on a stretch of 101. You realize how shitty our roads can be.
I did a few multi-day charity rides here in California. Some of those included stints on a stretch of 101. You realize how shitty our roads can be.
It may depend a little on where you are but generally on a cycle tour, where speed isn't such a priority, you don't tend to be taking the same bigger roads used by high speed cars or trucks (or may even be on routes largely separate from the roads). It can happen on occasion that you might want/need to go down a slightly busier road, in that case being a bit more of an odd road user (heavily loaded bicycle stands out) often you get a bit more consideration but a bit of road confidence certainly doesn't hurt.
I can't speak for everywhere but in Europe (where most of my experience is) I think you would be able to find plenty of routes without much traffic (checkout places like https://www.opencyclemap.org/ ) and ironically those routes would probably have much more to see on them than the routes that did have the cars and trucks on.
I can't speak for everywhere but in Europe (where most of my experience is) I think you would be able to find plenty of routes without much traffic (checkout places like https://www.opencyclemap.org/ ) and ironically those routes would probably have much more to see on them than the routes that did have the cars and trucks on.
But you don't have to do that, if you plan accordingly. There are dedicated long distance cycle paths, see e.g. https://en.eurovelo.com/
The "dedicated cycle path" along the Atlantic Coast Route near me looks like this:
https://www.google.com/maps/@63.3222885,10.1328111,3a,75y,34...
https://www.google.com/maps/@63.3222885,10.1328111,3a,75y,34...
Yes, when bicycling in my town in Southern California, I often avoid the marked bicycle routes in favor of less busy streets with no marked bicycle route.
That's sad. Though Slovakia is not much better, we do have some bright spots. This is the Eurovelo along the Danube: https://maps.app.goo.gl/yL3Picyo2ZTuDaZ3A
How much traffic can you expect on that road? I rode on similar roads and it was actually quite nice.
Sucks as its properly dangerous due to simple statistics (you need just 1 out of 10000 drivers to not pay enough attention, be high, super tired, getting seizure or heart attack, etc.). Riding on roads without dedicated full cycle lane sucks, period.
Another point - directly breathing all fumes from thousands of cars every day, lorries, buses and other diesel marvels. More than compensating a healthy activity with equivalent to smoking a pack of cigarettes.
Fanatics always propagate their sports/activity as next coming of jesus, but as with everything there are pros and cons. Biking on standard roads has massive cons.
Another point - directly breathing all fumes from thousands of cars every day, lorries, buses and other diesel marvels. More than compensating a healthy activity with equivalent to smoking a pack of cigarettes.
Fanatics always propagate their sports/activity as next coming of jesus, but as with everything there are pros and cons. Biking on standard roads has massive cons.
I don't know where you live, but the other thing I've noticed people who have never cycle toured really fail to notice is how many thousands of small roads there are, at least in Europe, which link everywhere.
Agrigultural roads that you'd never bother (or even want) to take your car down. Residential streets that only the residents would drive on.
I'd guess that on the average 5 day cycling tour in the UK and Europe, I'd see less than 1000 cars total, and often go for many hours without seeing any. Its glorious.
Agrigultural roads that you'd never bother (or even want) to take your car down. Residential streets that only the residents would drive on.
I'd guess that on the average 5 day cycling tour in the UK and Europe, I'd see less than 1000 cars total, and often go for many hours without seeing any. Its glorious.
In any sort of mountainous Europe, or anywhere else, there is one road through the valley. The side roads will either be dead ends that go up some ravine, or else steer back to the main road.
Any side road advantageous to a cyclist (good pavement quality, shorter distance) will have cars, unless it's brand new and nobody knows about it.
You have to find the good side roads which are not usable to drivers, due to, say, obstacles that a cyclist can get around easily. If it's not obvious from the entrance to that road, you will need local knowledge.
There is always a risk that if you go down some random side road, you may be backing out to where you started.
Riding on roads outside of city limits isn't such a big deal that you'd bother, in the first place. It depends on the exact conditions. What is the visibility like? (Curve with rocky wall on one side, precipice on the other? Or field?) How wide is the paved shoulder? What are the speeds like?
Any side road advantageous to a cyclist (good pavement quality, shorter distance) will have cars, unless it's brand new and nobody knows about it.
You have to find the good side roads which are not usable to drivers, due to, say, obstacles that a cyclist can get around easily. If it's not obvious from the entrance to that road, you will need local knowledge.
There is always a risk that if you go down some random side road, you may be backing out to where you started.
Riding on roads outside of city limits isn't such a big deal that you'd bother, in the first place. It depends on the exact conditions. What is the visibility like? (Curve with rocky wall on one side, precipice on the other? Or field?) How wide is the paved shoulder? What are the speeds like?
In Europe at least, this is true for a vanishingly small number of key mountain passes. And most of them have been bypassed with motorways on shallower grades which are significantly longer, but still quicker for cars to travel.
Everywhere else, the pyrennes, the alps and company are a spiderweb of tiny towns with tiny quiet roads between them, in a ratio of about 5:1 against the larger main roads. I've cycled them, traffic isn't a problem.
As for paving, on a tour I'll take a hard pack, unpaved surface with no traffic over a main road all day every day.
And knowing where the roads go? That's route planning! Have a little look at where you plan to go before you set out each morning. Strava's heat maps are really useful, though understand that road racers do prefer the highway, and they cycle a lot!
I do this every year, and traffic just doesn't come in to it except at the large terminal cities where we get the international trains or ferries from...
Everywhere else, the pyrennes, the alps and company are a spiderweb of tiny towns with tiny quiet roads between them, in a ratio of about 5:1 against the larger main roads. I've cycled them, traffic isn't a problem.
As for paving, on a tour I'll take a hard pack, unpaved surface with no traffic over a main road all day every day.
And knowing where the roads go? That's route planning! Have a little look at where you plan to go before you set out each morning. Strava's heat maps are really useful, though understand that road racers do prefer the highway, and they cycle a lot!
I do this every year, and traffic just doesn't come in to it except at the large terminal cities where we get the international trains or ferries from...
If you want to go from town A to town B, and there is a direct A-B road, then you almost never want the A-C-B spiderweb path going through town C.
The A-C road may not be any different from the A-B one in terms of A-B being "main" and A-C being a "secondary" road, and the path will likely be longer.
A road actually going to a neighboring town is a strawman example of a side road.
The A-C road may not be any different from the A-B one in terms of A-B being "main" and A-C being a "secondary" road, and the path will likely be longer.
A road actually going to a neighboring town is a strawman example of a side road.
> If you want to go from town A to town B, and there is a direct A-B road, then you almost never want the A-C-B spiderweb path going through town C.
He is talking about cycling for travel, exploration, sport and leisure - not about commuting. I have just done the same last week, a 5 day tour and can confirm, I planned everything around secondary, tertiary and country / farm roads. It was mostly empty, and a pleasure. (despite being longer than the "main" road)
He is talking about cycling for travel, exploration, sport and leisure - not about commuting. I have just done the same last week, a 5 day tour and can confirm, I planned everything around secondary, tertiary and country / farm roads. It was mostly empty, and a pleasure. (despite being longer than the "main" road)
on a few bike trips i followed hiking trails. checking that the trail is going towards my destination and not in a circle. those trails were not always meant for bikes. i even remember carrying my heavy dutch-style bike and the luggage over rocks at one point, but that only slowed me down. it didn't stop me.
Agricultural roads often come with their own dangers. I'll take a busy street over a tiny road blocked by a big black dog staring you down menacingly.
Yes, it does depend on where you live.
The Great Salt Lake in Utah is the size of Lichtenstein. The Grand Canyon of the Colorado is longer than the Italian boot is wide. England is the size of Alabama.
The Great Salt Lake in Utah is the size of Lichtenstein. The Grand Canyon of the Colorado is longer than the Italian boot is wide. England is the size of Alabama.
Australia is roughly the size of the continental US with a tenth the population and we still have lots of small roads in the populated coastal green bits, so I'm not sure what your point is.
It can be harder to find a safe route somewhere in the country, I'll give you that.
It can be harder to find a safe route somewhere in the country, I'll give you that.
Australia like Western Europe can be traveled near sea level. For example, Bern, Geneva and Zurich are all less than 500m.
The US is not like that. There are only a few routes in the west because the west is more than a thousand miles of mountains and deserts nearly all above 1500m and much of it above 2000m.
It is hundreds of miles between north south routes in Arizona because of the Grand Canyon. And the eastern route goes from vast remoteness to vast remoteness, Navajo nation to the Great Basin (an internal drainage the size of France).
I am not a general fan of American exceptionalism. But for geography, it holds. The average height of the Colorado Plateau is about 2000m…almost as high as the highest point in Australia. And the plateau is larger than Germany.
I am glad it works on your machine.
The US is not like that. There are only a few routes in the west because the west is more than a thousand miles of mountains and deserts nearly all above 1500m and much of it above 2000m.
It is hundreds of miles between north south routes in Arizona because of the Grand Canyon. And the eastern route goes from vast remoteness to vast remoteness, Navajo nation to the Great Basin (an internal drainage the size of France).
I am not a general fan of American exceptionalism. But for geography, it holds. The average height of the Colorado Plateau is about 2000m…almost as high as the highest point in Australia. And the plateau is larger than Germany.
I am glad it works on your machine.
Hey, I've lived in the US, and it's big enough that you need to specify where you're talking about. If for some reason your bicycle tour is going to take you around all of Arizona, that's a problem. If you're Californian and you don't live in the Sierras, what you've said doesn't hold as much, nor if you live in the Great Plains or New England.
This is vaguely similar to Australia, which has gigantic deserts with terrible roads through them as most of the landmass, but geographically bikeable population centres where everyone actually lives.
This is vaguely similar to Australia, which has gigantic deserts with terrible roads through them as most of the landmass, but geographically bikeable population centres where everyone actually lives.
"Riding on roads without dedicated full cycle lane sucks, period."
Sounds like you live in a large city or something. I can ride 100 miles on rural country lanes where I live, and only see a handful of cars all day.
Please don't comment on subjects about which you know nothing.
Sounds like you live in a large city or something. I can ride 100 miles on rural country lanes where I live, and only see a handful of cars all day.
Please don't comment on subjects about which you know nothing.
Every time a car passes you with a massive speed differential, you are gambling with your life. As long as you (and your family) are willing to accept that risk, then all the power to you.
Also, rural roads aren't exactly known for their alert drivers. Drunk driving is far more common due to lack of taxis/ubers.
Also, rural roads aren't exactly known for their alert drivers. Drunk driving is far more common due to lack of taxis/ubers.
Good job on making the GP point. I seriously doubt you know what you are talking about.
>you are generally travelling along the old routes that connect all the places where life has been for millennia, the amount of history (in Europe at least), scenery and humanity you stumble across just in the course of a typical day covering maybe 50 miles is huge.
What stops someone doing the same thing with the car, motorcycle or scooter?
What stops someone doing the same thing with the car, motorcycle or scooter?
> What stops someone doing the same thing with the car, motorcycle or scooter?
For the car:
> In a car you're always in a compartment, and because you're used to it you don't realize that through that car window everything you see is just more TV. You're a passive observer and it is all moving by you boringly in a frame.
> On a cycle the frame is gone. You're completely in contact with it all. You're in the scene, not just watching it anymore, and the sense of presence is overwhelming.
* Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values
* https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/313360-in-a-car-you-re-alwa...
For the car:
> In a car you're always in a compartment, and because you're used to it you don't realize that through that car window everything you see is just more TV. You're a passive observer and it is all moving by you boringly in a frame.
> On a cycle the frame is gone. You're completely in contact with it all. You're in the scene, not just watching it anymore, and the sense of presence is overwhelming.
* Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values
* https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/313360-in-a-car-you-re-alwa...
When I started riding motorcycle, I remember having this amazing feeling of being connected to my environment. Even though I was on the same roads and going the same speed as when I was in a car, it was wonderful and quite inexplicable.
You stop at a sign or light, and you put your foot down. You have the wind at your face, the sun on your back. No radio, no cell phone beeping at you. You wave to motorcyclists coming from the opposite direction.
Not that riding is without its dangers or downsides, to be sure, but it can be wonderful.
You stop at a sign or light, and you put your foot down. You have the wind at your face, the sun on your back. No radio, no cell phone beeping at you. You wave to motorcyclists coming from the opposite direction.
Not that riding is without its dangers or downsides, to be sure, but it can be wonderful.
For many of us, imposing a physical or technological limitation on an activity changes the experience. I can't think of a good explanation. A person with exceptional self discipline might not need it, but some of us know that we aren't that person.
The speed and physical inertia of a car seem to translate into a psychological speed and inertia. Again, I can't justify this on utilitarian grounds. I find myself driving faster than I would go if I'm on my bike. As angry as drivers get when they're stuck behind my bike at 12 mph, imagine how angry they'd get if they were stuck behind my car at 12 mph for no apparent reason.
In the car, I don't stop to notice "little" things. To do so requires getting the car off the road, finding a place to park (if there is one) getting in and out. On my bike, I can come to a complete stop and be off the road and parked, virtually anywhere, in about 15 seconds. I get priority parking at the supermarket. ;-)
I admit that I've become somewhat anti-tourist, perhaps influenced by the experience of a driving vacation in the British Isles with my family. It seemed like every coastal or scenic road was jam packed with cars and tour buses, and every square foot of space filled with parked cars. It's possible to find less-touristy places to visit, but now those places are getting crowded too.
These days when my family goes on a vacation, we like to find a destination where we can ditch the car, and hop on our bikes. I actually miss my bike when I'm on a trip without it.
The speed and physical inertia of a car seem to translate into a psychological speed and inertia. Again, I can't justify this on utilitarian grounds. I find myself driving faster than I would go if I'm on my bike. As angry as drivers get when they're stuck behind my bike at 12 mph, imagine how angry they'd get if they were stuck behind my car at 12 mph for no apparent reason.
In the car, I don't stop to notice "little" things. To do so requires getting the car off the road, finding a place to park (if there is one) getting in and out. On my bike, I can come to a complete stop and be off the road and parked, virtually anywhere, in about 15 seconds. I get priority parking at the supermarket. ;-)
I admit that I've become somewhat anti-tourist, perhaps influenced by the experience of a driving vacation in the British Isles with my family. It seemed like every coastal or scenic road was jam packed with cars and tour buses, and every square foot of space filled with parked cars. It's possible to find less-touristy places to visit, but now those places are getting crowded too.
These days when my family goes on a vacation, we like to find a destination where we can ditch the car, and hop on our bikes. I actually miss my bike when I'm on a trip without it.
You can absolutely travel the same roads, but there is something about the speed you are travelling that opens you up to really noticing the little details of the landscape around you.
The faster and heavier you are, the more capacity for harm you have, and the more you must pay attention to just the road in front of you instead of the world around you.
you're more isolated from the outside in a glass and metal bubble (car)
and everything just whizzes by too fast to appreciate anything
and everything just whizzes by too fast to appreciate anything
What do you eat on these trips? Do you carry food with your or just stop at shops and restaurants along the way? How heavy is your backpack?
I love biking but I don't love lugging tons of stuff around.
I love biking but I don't love lugging tons of stuff around.
Depends a little. Usually you are passing through lots of populated places regularly and so generally I would stop at bakeries (local/different ones if I find them) and supermarkets to get the bulk of the food I would eat in the day, as well as the odd restaurant in the evening. I also tour with camping and simple cooking gear so would mix in some cooking depending on time/budget/availability of other options. On my last tour, for various reasons, I ended up doing more wild camping which this time meant cooking less (more evening time spent in towns before finding somewhere to camp) but in say Scotland, would probably be carrying more food and cooking more when wild camping. Always useful to be carrying at least a little food with you just in case you conk-out and need the energy.
An example of a breakfast I was having on my last trip was: 2 croissants, yoghurt with chocolate coated peanuts mixed in, a banana and some fruit smoothie (which seemed on offer a lot this trip) and I might stop for second breakfast/early lunch and get a couple of pasties at the next town with a bakery (handy because you can eat these while cycling). In Italy you might instead be eating things like focaccia from local bakeries (perfect size for my handlebar bag), the landscape of what you eat changes with region, season and mood. You might be surprised though just how good very simple food (bread/cheese) can taste when you are doing exercise all day.
One thing I would advise is that it is a lot kinder on the body to attach the bags to the bike if possible rather than carry on your back. I tour relatively heavy and I think my bike/bags together weigh about 40-45kg, just about liftable at a push if I need to, for example, get a small boat for pedestrians (though usually I'd take a couple bags off to make it easier). It's very possible to travel a lot lighter than this though, particularly if not camping, some people just take a change of clothes and a credit card.
An example of a breakfast I was having on my last trip was: 2 croissants, yoghurt with chocolate coated peanuts mixed in, a banana and some fruit smoothie (which seemed on offer a lot this trip) and I might stop for second breakfast/early lunch and get a couple of pasties at the next town with a bakery (handy because you can eat these while cycling). In Italy you might instead be eating things like focaccia from local bakeries (perfect size for my handlebar bag), the landscape of what you eat changes with region, season and mood. You might be surprised though just how good very simple food (bread/cheese) can taste when you are doing exercise all day.
One thing I would advise is that it is a lot kinder on the body to attach the bags to the bike if possible rather than carry on your back. I tour relatively heavy and I think my bike/bags together weigh about 40-45kg, just about liftable at a push if I need to, for example, get a small boat for pedestrians (though usually I'd take a couple bags off to make it easier). It's very possible to travel a lot lighter than this though, particularly if not camping, some people just take a change of clothes and a credit card.
Yeah, just depends on where you're going. We just finished a 4-day tour along the Neckar river in Germany and didn't carry anything extra (except maybe some leftover pastries from breakfast). But then long days up in the north Georgia mountains will require several hearty sandwiches, lots of small snacks, extra electrolytes and maybe a water filter.
That conveys my own experience exceptionally well. IME, it's the same bicycling within cities, where you live or as a visitor. I know those places and their people so much better now.
when doing solo-trips i tended to skip lunch, preferring a good breakfast and dinner. at best i might have a snack if i get hungry, that is if i got something to carry from breakfast.
I agree with everything you said but for walking. Bikes can’t go everywhere, biking in cities is dangerous and uncomfortable (irrespective of good or bad bike infrastructure) and it’s just not as satisfying as putting one foot in front of the other. Yea it’s much slower than biking but at least a magnitude more rewarding in my opinion.
Good bike infrastructure absolutely makes it safe and comfortable. Separated bike lanes is key. I also love walking, but this kind of rhetoric is just car-centric propaganda.
Even good bike lanes are packed, sometimes shared with pedestrians and involve crossings where you can intersect with cars. That might be okay for some but it’s very different from biking on a trail.
Of course it’s a car centric argument, that’s what I’m advocating for.
Of course it’s a car centric argument, that’s what I’m advocating for.
Yeah - I should get my grannie and her grandkids to come make the 200 mile round trip by bike!
I hear what you are saying - if you love bikes long journeys are wonderful. I imagine motorcyclists or long distance runners could get the same buzz.
> It may not be for everyone but I want to live in a world where that experience feels accessible to as many as possible.
But let's not kid ourselves that this is a viable option for most people. And if you mean that we should get rid of even more roads for bike lanes, you are actually going to restrict people engaging with distant relations and friends.
I hear what you are saying - if you love bikes long journeys are wonderful. I imagine motorcyclists or long distance runners could get the same buzz.
> It may not be for everyone but I want to live in a world where that experience feels accessible to as many as possible.
But let's not kid ourselves that this is a viable option for most people. And if you mean that we should get rid of even more roads for bike lanes, you are actually going to restrict people engaging with distant relations and friends.
> And if you mean that we should get rid of even more roads for bike lanes, you are actually going to restrict people engaging with distant relations and friends.
That is utter bullshit. You could dedicate half the secondary roads to non motorized traffic and add a separates bicycle path alongside every highway and fluidity of the cars traffic wouldn't be affected at all. It would even improve.
That is utter bullshit. You could dedicate half the secondary roads to non motorized traffic and add a separates bicycle path alongside every highway and fluidity of the cars traffic wouldn't be affected at all. It would even improve.
Me, my father and my son are making the trip Berlin - Baltic Sea this year (we‘ve made the return three years ago). It‘s about 360 km, so roundabout 200 miles. We‘ll have electric cargo bikes, granted, but the small one is just 5, so he can‘t be expected to ride that on his little bike. It‘s definitely an option, but a lot of people don‘t consider it as an option. One of the problems I believe is that people consider the start of their holidays to be when they arrive at the destination - the trip there is a chore. If you want to travel by bike, you need to consider the trip as part of your vacation.
Many elderly can't drive for medical reasons. Safe bicycle infrastructure doubles as a safer place for electric wheelchairs. Decreasing car reliance with better biking and walking infrastructure and better public transit, such as buses or trains, would increase accessibility for the elderly not decrease it.
Maybe we should reevaluate wether it's actually necessary for a free and democratic society to have these distanced families as a norm. The societal model you describe essentially evolved in lockstep with capitalism (people moving into cities/generally moving for work) and I'm not totally sure that it has to be this way. We could just live more regional and still be free and democratic as well! Indeed, currently it looks like rootlessness proclaimed by you and others as the preferable lifestyle will take away our freedom and democracy with it.
Of course, we don't have democracy. We don't contribute to the thousands of decisions that are made. We have 'representative democracy' where we choose someone (once every 5 years) to make all those decisions for us.
We should re-evaluate what? The reality that the system we find ourselves in, means that families are distributed? Would you force people back together into the same region?
We should re-evaluate what? The reality that the system we find ourselves in, means that families are distributed? Would you force people back together into the same region?
The freedom of movement is a marker of political liberty.
Some people (but by no means everyone) are better off away from their family and the town where they grew up.
Imagine that you are the fourth generation to move far away from your patents, as I am. There is not some community in which I have generational roots…and it was the prospect of conscription by the Tsar’s army that started it all. Not capitalism.
For me, employment someplace far away was the way out of where we weren’t from and that wasn’t for us.
Some people have a reason to stay. Those reasons are sometimes the reasons for other people to leave.
Some people (but by no means everyone) are better off away from their family and the town where they grew up.
Imagine that you are the fourth generation to move far away from your patents, as I am. There is not some community in which I have generational roots…and it was the prospect of conscription by the Tsar’s army that started it all. Not capitalism.
For me, employment someplace far away was the way out of where we weren’t from and that wasn’t for us.
Some people have a reason to stay. Those reasons are sometimes the reasons for other people to leave.
Agreed with all of these, and they don't apply just to the US. It's funny to realize that until the 60's or so bicycle holidays were the norm here, then it became car trips and after that airplane rides to ever more exotic locations. But not all that long ago it was just grandpa and grandma and their tent on a bike. A tandem if they were going for the fancy version (or if grandma wanted to do some knitting on the way...).
As for the reasons themselves, I'd like to add:
7) friendships made on bike tours seem to last a life time
8) people help each other far more readily than when using other modes of transportation
9) the sense of accomplishment
10) the sense of immersion, which is far stronger than when looking at the scenery through the windshield of a car
11) the confidence boost from accomplishment
12) if you travel with others you will get to know them much better as people than when making the same trip by car or plane (their good sides and their bad sides)
As for the reasons themselves, I'd like to add:
7) friendships made on bike tours seem to last a life time
8) people help each other far more readily than when using other modes of transportation
9) the sense of accomplishment
10) the sense of immersion, which is far stronger than when looking at the scenery through the windshield of a car
11) the confidence boost from accomplishment
12) if you travel with others you will get to know them much better as people than when making the same trip by car or plane (their good sides and their bad sides)
Touring Europe cycling is amazing, I did Strasbourg to Montpelier on a Dutch bike, with short legs between Amsterdam to Nice. It was amazing, I had a good tent, sleeping bag, and a mattress. My trip was over 2,000km, including a climb to Ventoux (part of Tour De France in 2012 IIRC).
One thing that's not mentioned in the article is to use Couch Surfing and Warm Showers. Warm Showers especially is amazing, because it is an amazing cycling community and you can borrow anything from small stitching kits to a full-on welding kits to fix bicycles. Full of amazing things and people in almost all euro velo routes.
FlixBus will take bicycle on board on most buses (for 10 euros IIRC), and most trains will too on weekends and off-peak hours.
Overall, it was a fantastic experience and I can't recommend it enough.
One thing that's not mentioned in the article is to use Couch Surfing and Warm Showers. Warm Showers especially is amazing, because it is an amazing cycling community and you can borrow anything from small stitching kits to a full-on welding kits to fix bicycles. Full of amazing things and people in almost all euro velo routes.
FlixBus will take bicycle on board on most buses (for 10 euros IIRC), and most trains will too on weekends and off-peak hours.
Overall, it was a fantastic experience and I can't recommend it enough.
That's impressive, to do those climbs on a regular bike.
Here's a dude climbing Ventoux on a single speed Dutch bike (subtitles available): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvDp5uCD0Kk
He also did it on a kids bike the year before: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49V4P_wkKTU
I should mention he currently rides for a UCI ProTeam, which is one tier away from the highest level in the world.
He also did it on a kids bike the year before: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49V4P_wkKTU
I should mention he currently rides for a UCI ProTeam, which is one tier away from the highest level in the world.
Hehe, that's so funny :)
So, some more context: swapfiets is the dutch student bike provider, they are very basic bikes, no gears, no nothing because what isn't on them can't break.
Key quote: "What do you miss the most about a racing bike?" -> "A slightly lighter gear".
He's doing remarkably well by the way, testimony to his skills, keeping up with those guys on their carbon frame racers with 22 gears is extremely impressive even over a short distance. The gearing on a typical swapfiets is typically 46/16 or 44/16 so ~3:1, on a racing bike you would have access to 36/23 or even 34/23 on a special climbing gear set. So he has to work about twice as hard to maintain the same speed.
Passing bike comments 'you're crazy man' :)
So, some more context: swapfiets is the dutch student bike provider, they are very basic bikes, no gears, no nothing because what isn't on them can't break.
Key quote: "What do you miss the most about a racing bike?" -> "A slightly lighter gear".
He's doing remarkably well by the way, testimony to his skills, keeping up with those guys on their carbon frame racers with 22 gears is extremely impressive even over a short distance. The gearing on a typical swapfiets is typically 46/16 or 44/16 so ~3:1, on a racing bike you would have access to 36/23 or even 34/23 on a special climbing gear set. So he has to work about twice as hard to maintain the same speed.
Passing bike comments 'you're crazy man' :)
Hmm, that bike looks very much like Swapfiets' "Deluxe 7" model, which has a 7-gear hub, so not a single speed! The gears also explain why there are three wires leading to the handlebar (2 for the brakes + 1 for the gears).
Nevertheless, the lowest gear on that bike is still not much help on a steep ascend like this.
Nevertheless, the lowest gear on that bike is still not much help on a steep ascend like this.
We have our annual 'against the wind' contest here because of lack of hills, this year they coincided with a 9 Beaufort wind which made for some interesting complications.
But Flixbus can be so frustrating, too.
Where i am, and 'locally' (within about 60-100km) i have yet to see space available for any bikes, when booking.
There's places I'd love to be driven to, and then ride back.
I hate cardio, I grumble constantly when my girlfriend drags me out on hikes, and to be honest half the time I'm on a bicycle, touring, I'm in agony. The seemingly infinite hills in 95 degree heat will make you question whose stupid idea this was over and over.
That said, there are these moments of bliss, finding yourself in nooks and crannies of the world that 90% of tourists never see, spending all day out in the sunshine, feeling the breeze, smelling the grass and the flowers, stopping to have daily picnics in random fields, next to lakes, overlooking beautiful mountain ranges... You're taking it slow, so you really take it all in. You're constantly ravenous so every meal you have is one of the greatest of your life. Maybe the exercise induced endorphins are boosting it all a bit too.
Anyway, some of the best memories of my life are those I made while bicycle touring.
That said, there are these moments of bliss, finding yourself in nooks and crannies of the world that 90% of tourists never see, spending all day out in the sunshine, feeling the breeze, smelling the grass and the flowers, stopping to have daily picnics in random fields, next to lakes, overlooking beautiful mountain ranges... You're taking it slow, so you really take it all in. You're constantly ravenous so every meal you have is one of the greatest of your life. Maybe the exercise induced endorphins are boosting it all a bit too.
Anyway, some of the best memories of my life are those I made while bicycle touring.
Best holiday of my life was riding the Pyrenees with my wife. Your comment about eating a meal after riding really rang true for me. Meals after a big ride are something special and when the French are doing the cooking... That's something to remember forever!
> and to be honest half the time I'm on a bicycle, touring, I'm in agony
Is your bike set up properly? That can make a world of a difference, if your bike is not perfectly set up for your body on a longer tour it can really hurt.
Is your bike set up properly? That can make a world of a difference, if your bike is not perfectly set up for your body on a longer tour it can really hurt.
I've gone to a few different bike fitters over the years, as well as physical therapists. A proper bike fit did finally fix my knee issues, but the agony I'm talking about is the kind you experience from riding up and down steep hills all day in the hot sun, the saddle soreness, the general full body aches, pains, cuts and scrapes like you've been getting beat up all day.
That said I'm also a big whiny out of shape baby.
That said I'm also a big whiny out of shape baby.
Ok! It was just the first thing that came to mind. As you ride more you become tougher too, I find that after the cold season the first two weeks I can get really sore from the saddle but after that it becomes a non-issue. Wrists are another item (you can end up with these if you're not careful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganglion_cyst) and I wear gloves even in summer to ensure I don't end up wrecking my palms.
The big trick is to keep your weight down, that makes a huge difference (for me, at least). Just a couple of kilos more or less and I feel completely different after a long ride (~70kg = everything is fine, ~75kg = I feel miserable).
The big trick is to keep your weight down, that makes a huge difference (for me, at least). Just a couple of kilos more or less and I feel completely different after a long ride (~70kg = everything is fine, ~75kg = I feel miserable).
Hang in there and try to find something you like :-). I love riding and even though I dislike all the same things you do, for me it's more fuel than it is making me give up.
With that said there are hills and there are hills - we did just the last 10km after our train ride recently but it was all uphill all the time. We took almost two hours because my family just couldn't make it. It was rough even for me. Going back was the a 30 minute breeze, we spent more energy braking :-).
With that said there are hills and there are hills - we did just the last 10km after our train ride recently but it was all uphill all the time. We took almost two hours because my family just couldn't make it. It was rough even for me. Going back was the a 30 minute breeze, we spent more energy braking :-).
The stench of road kill also really helps
I quit my job as a data scientist in 2019 and spent about 6 months cycling around Europe. It was a great move it really built my confidence and enforced my since of self reliance. I was on my own things would go wrong bike trouble, bad weather, difficulty finding a place to camp, loneliness, but I could overcome them all and realised I can solve any problem the world throws at me.
I was a little worried about finding a job after, and having a gap on my CV but I easily found another data science job and have changed jobs no one even asks about it.
If like me you have an urge to take a bicycle tour do it you won’t regret it.
I was a little worried about finding a job after, and having a gap on my CV but I easily found another data science job and have changed jobs no one even asks about it.
If like me you have an urge to take a bicycle tour do it you won’t regret it.
I’ve gotten really into touring in the last couple of years, and a Euro bike trip is in my plans for next spring/summer. Any suggestions for what season and where you’d recommend for a month-long tour? I’m currently thinking May, perhaps the corridor from Normandy thru Brussels onto Amsterdam. But I haven’t visited enough of Europe to know if temperatures/wind/weather will be amenable for that.
Of course I’m also considering dropping my job at some point and biking for 6+ months.
Of course I’m also considering dropping my job at some point and biking for 6+ months.
I would probably have gone with June for that, but on the other hand I once spent an entire July biking in Spain, which to be fair was a bit hot.
To see historic weather I use wunderground.com, for example, here[1] is the weather for May 2021 in Amsterdam. I usually check a few years to avoid one-off years.
[1] https://www.wunderground.com/calendar/nl/amsterdam-airport-s...
To see historic weather I use wunderground.com, for example, here[1] is the weather for May 2021 in Amsterdam. I usually check a few years to avoid one-off years.
[1] https://www.wunderground.com/calendar/nl/amsterdam-airport-s...
I have a similar gap in my CV.
I've found that the companies/people I most want to work for are genuinelyhttps://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=LightG interested in that gap rather than are suspicious about it.
I use how they respond to it as a minor filter for those I don't want to work with.
I've found that the companies/people I most want to work for are genuinelyhttps://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=LightG interested in that gap rather than are suspicious about it.
I use how they respond to it as a minor filter for those I don't want to work with.
Get a state license in anything, and say you were unemployed for those resume gaps. Most license requirements are easy to fudge.
I did a 3,000 km solo bicycle tour of S.E. Asia, started in Bangkok Thailand, headed up north to get my legs and then dropped back down once I was comfortable and headed off for Cambodia, crossed over to Vietnam and headed up the coast, headed east and into Laos to cross back to Thailand again. Best experience of my life. If I didn't have a dog, I would do something similar once a year.
My general method was to ride for 4 hours, usually covering 100km (60 miles). Some days there isn't a good destination within that distance, or the terrain is steep, poor roads or an extreme headwind. On those days I'd put in more time or do distance (sometimes only covering 30 km). Once I got to a nice location I'd stay until I felt there wasn't anything interesting to take in, usually 1-3 days, and then I'd head back out. Sometimes you want to put in back to back rides, other times you just want to sit and relax on a beach.
Food was terribly cheap while I was there, so I at at street stalls as often as I wanted. Portion sizes were small enough that you could sample a lot of cuisine. Fruit stalls were plentiful too.
There is really no camping in S.E. Asia, due to land mines, etc. So you stay at guest houses, which were extremely inexpensive while I was there. People are extremely friendly and helpful. Some will try and become your friend simply because you'll buy them a meal, others to practice English or for the prestige. This was a bit annoying at times, but hardly insidious. Lots of children will run out and yell "hello" which gets tiresome on long stretches...but still rather cute.
What people don't mention, is you have lots of time to your thoughts. My journals from this time period has tons of great inventions and ideas for books, businesses and what not. My writer friends were jealous of the outpouring of long form writing that I was doing at this time.
I highly recommend bike tours!
My general method was to ride for 4 hours, usually covering 100km (60 miles). Some days there isn't a good destination within that distance, or the terrain is steep, poor roads or an extreme headwind. On those days I'd put in more time or do distance (sometimes only covering 30 km). Once I got to a nice location I'd stay until I felt there wasn't anything interesting to take in, usually 1-3 days, and then I'd head back out. Sometimes you want to put in back to back rides, other times you just want to sit and relax on a beach.
Food was terribly cheap while I was there, so I at at street stalls as often as I wanted. Portion sizes were small enough that you could sample a lot of cuisine. Fruit stalls were plentiful too.
There is really no camping in S.E. Asia, due to land mines, etc. So you stay at guest houses, which were extremely inexpensive while I was there. People are extremely friendly and helpful. Some will try and become your friend simply because you'll buy them a meal, others to practice English or for the prestige. This was a bit annoying at times, but hardly insidious. Lots of children will run out and yell "hello" which gets tiresome on long stretches...but still rather cute.
What people don't mention, is you have lots of time to your thoughts. My journals from this time period has tons of great inventions and ideas for books, businesses and what not. My writer friends were jealous of the outpouring of long form writing that I was doing at this time.
I highly recommend bike tours!
There are a number of bicycle tourers who adopted pets, mostly cats and dogs while travelling. It complicates a bit the "administrative" part to get accross borders but it can be done.
Small ones can ride in the basket provided they have ample shades, there are dedicated trailers for dogs and there are even dogs who get used to jump in and out of a simple platform trailer to run or get carried depending if the road is flat, going uphill or downhill.
Small ones can ride in the basket provided they have ample shades, there are dedicated trailers for dogs and there are even dogs who get used to jump in and out of a simple platform trailer to run or get carried depending if the road is flat, going uphill or downhill.
Doesn't the added weight of a trailer have a significant impact?
It has but we are talking about touring, not racing. Once you start putting panniers it is game over as far as speed is concerned anyway.
This is a reason why there is kind of 2 worlds in term of bicycle touring / bikepacking. Those that ride very light and focus on efficiency with very light hardware, one set of clothes/change, a bivy and a tarp but no capability to cook and would have meals and dinner on the parking of a supermarket or in a café. And those that truly set camp and will carry a lot more stuff and possibly walk the bike for a bit or grind very slowly when they encounter a very steep climb.
This is a reason why there is kind of 2 worlds in term of bicycle touring / bikepacking. Those that ride very light and focus on efficiency with very light hardware, one set of clothes/change, a bivy and a tarp but no capability to cook and would have meals and dinner on the parking of a supermarket or in a café. And those that truly set camp and will carry a lot more stuff and possibly walk the bike for a bit or grind very slowly when they encounter a very steep climb.
Have cycled from Northern Europe to South Africa, crossed Europe several times and also crossed US, New York to California. Best way to experience a country.
Don’t have time? Try to do a quick one and turn it into an adventure. One of my most exciting trips was going from Southern to Northern Europe in just a week.
I recommend to pack lightly, and don’t spend to much time planning on gear and routes - just do it otherwise you’ll risk to postpone it again and again.. just do it.
Don’t have time? Try to do a quick one and turn it into an adventure. One of my most exciting trips was going from Southern to Northern Europe in just a week.
I recommend to pack lightly, and don’t spend to much time planning on gear and routes - just do it otherwise you’ll risk to postpone it again and again.. just do it.
> One of my most exciting trips was going from Southern to Northern Europe in just a week.
Now that is impressive. Do you remember your route?
Now that is impressive. Do you remember your route?
Last summer I completed a cross-USA ride from Oregon to Virginia, over 3000 miles. It was the most fulfilling amazing experience of my life. My family is tired of hearing me start sentences with 'when I was on my ride'. That said it was scary at times. In the US some places are outright hostile to cyclists. I was flipped off, coated in exhaust by big diesel burning trucks (on purpose), and run off the road multiple times (not sure if intentionally). It truly is an amazing experience but the lack of bike infra in this country is so sad. My next ride is going to be an off-road one where I don't have to worry about cars.
I did Oregon to Idaho and having to take even brief moments on freeways or riding on the shoulder with passing semi trucks was enough to convince me that cross country wasn’t for me. We really need to complete the cross country trail.
https://www.railstotrails.org/greatamericanrailtrail/
https://www.railstotrails.org/greatamericanrailtrail/
Years ago, I rode from Boston to Seattle (with a nontrivial and unplanned detour through Canada) by myself. I may never do another cycling tour again (for a number of reasons) but it was one of the greatest experiences in my life.
It all started out when I heard about some friends (brothers) who did the same and I know that I personally motivated at least 3 other people to do similar rides.
Oh jeez, I could go on and on actually, but I will keep it brief, it was a wonderful experience overall. I am lucky and grateful that I was able to do something like that.
It all started out when I heard about some friends (brothers) who did the same and I know that I personally motivated at least 3 other people to do similar rides.
Oh jeez, I could go on and on actually, but I will keep it brief, it was a wonderful experience overall. I am lucky and grateful that I was able to do something like that.
> I could go on
Please do! Fascinating all these stories.
Please do! Fascinating all these stories.
I commuted everyday using my bicycle and did a few tours in my 20s here in Europe. Those were the best travel experiences I had in my life, especially when my partner joined me on one of my tours. But few months into my 30s I hurt my back (two herniated discs) and although I'm mostly fine now I can't ride a bicycle for longer periods. This depresses me quite a bit. I miss the freedom, views and the community.
I started to think about buying a recumbent bike for touring but there's no one around me who owns or sells one to try it.
I started to think about buying a recumbent bike for touring but there's no one around me who owns or sells one to try it.
I have never ridden a recumbent. But for 7 years I had a regular cycling partner who rode one, for similar reasons. He was also an ultra cyclist (think 300 miles or more a ride). We did many centuries in the mountain West. Very hard to draft on the long downhill grades, but slow on the up. No big deal. The thing is the poser cyclists who sport the carbon and the kit and the electronics are almost entirely squares and will give you shade... but you just ignore them. It's the people riding across the country, enjoying themselves, not caring what other people think, that's the people I want to ride with.
As for trying one out, I would recommend talking to your LBS with the best mechanical reputation. Every recumbent rider I've seen was the only one around, and because their rigs are non-standard they tend to have a very good relationship with their competent LBS. I suspect the local recumbent person would be delighted to introduce you to their ride.
As for trying one out, I would recommend talking to your LBS with the best mechanical reputation. Every recumbent rider I've seen was the only one around, and because their rigs are non-standard they tend to have a very good relationship with their competent LBS. I suspect the local recumbent person would be delighted to introduce you to their ride.
Thanks for the encouragement! Yeah, I didn't bother about the lycra warrior culture when I was touring, just bringing so much competition and rigidness in such a (to me) anxiety free environment was off-putting to me.
My friend, who worked in a bike shop, told me that recumbents require a knowledgeable mechanic but if I find one he/she will be more than happy to work on such a different build.
My friend, who worked in a bike shop, told me that recumbents require a knowledgeable mechanic but if I find one he/she will be more than happy to work on such a different build.
> I started to think about buying a recumbent bike for touring but there's no one around me who owns or sells one to try it.
My mother used to have one. As long as you're not crossing the Alpes it is great for tours (the riding tends to be significantly easier due to less wind resistance), but not so great for commuting in the city (you're seen less, have less maneuverability, need more space for parking ...). I highly recommend searching out a place and maybe do a weekend trip to a city near you where there is a job to try it out, however be aware it takes a while to really feel comfortable on them.
My mother used to have one. As long as you're not crossing the Alpes it is great for tours (the riding tends to be significantly easier due to less wind resistance), but not so great for commuting in the city (you're seen less, have less maneuverability, need more space for parking ...). I highly recommend searching out a place and maybe do a weekend trip to a city near you where there is a job to try it out, however be aware it takes a while to really feel comfortable on them.
I heard riding up-hill is more challenging but it's still better than not riding at all. I'll probably have to ride 300-400 km to a more bike-centric place to find a shop that sells recumbents but there's no other option. These types of bikes are expensive though.
In addition to other comments: They also are safer, at least in one significant way: Most accidents on upright bikes involve people flying over the handlebars.
This reminded me of a particular quote, I think by an Indian author. To paraphrase
"Cars are way too fast, the world speeds past in a blur. Bullock/ox carts are nice but not much faster than walking. Cycling, however, gives you time to say hi and be waved back, while being fast enough to be practical."
I wish I could remember the author (maybe Sudha Murthy, Ruskin Bond, Rudyard Kipling or even perhaps Roald Dahl?), perhaps some other HN-er might remember!
"Cars are way too fast, the world speeds past in a blur. Bullock/ox carts are nice but not much faster than walking. Cycling, however, gives you time to say hi and be waved back, while being fast enough to be practical."
I wish I could remember the author (maybe Sudha Murthy, Ruskin Bond, Rudyard Kipling or even perhaps Roald Dahl?), perhaps some other HN-er might remember!
In 95% of the US traveling by bike is insanely dangerous. Drivers do not expect to see bikes and their habits are adjusted accordingly. For example driving on the shoulder to let someone pass. Noone expects to see a bike there and pedestrians aren’t foolish enough to stand there, and a bike would be in even more danger in the road itself. In Austin the so called bike lanes are crossed over by car turning lanes. Zero chance of me biking on public roads until bike lanes are physically separated, not just some painted line. I’ve been to Amsterdam and places where it is safe and we are decades if not centuries away from that working here.
North America offers many off-road touring opportunities. For example, the Great Divide route runs 2,100 miles from Canada to New Mexico, running almost entirely over unpaved roads. And New York has the 350-mile Erie canal trail.
Interesting! So maybe there is a safe place to try it when I retire and have the time.
In, cough, 1991, my wife and I did a bike tour in Europe for our honeymoon. We spent a total of 4 weeks in Holland, England, and Germany. We took trains and of course ferries to cover larger differences. We did less than 50 miles in a typical day, iirc.
The thing is, back then, no GPS, no Internet, just maps and asking people for help. The trip was not particularly challenging and was very rewarding. It seems like such a trip would be even more easy and fun today with all of the extra context and information that you have with a smart phone.
The thing is, back then, no GPS, no Internet, just maps and asking people for help. The trip was not particularly challenging and was very rewarding. It seems like such a trip would be even more easy and fun today with all of the extra context and information that you have with a smart phone.
I agree! What I love about a bicycle trip is how little preparation it actually requires during the fair weather season. You don't need fancy equipment and a phone gives you all the information you need. The OsmAnd app is quite good.
If you enjoy reading about other people's bike travels, take a look at [1].
The site allows long distance cyclists to write journals of their trips while they are on tour, some of which had me binge-read them for entire weekends.
Also, the site carries a lovely craigslist vibe :)
Focussing on the match-made-in-heaven which are cycling & food, [2] chronicles the experiences of a bloke in his mid-20s, who ditches his job at an ad agency (as well as his girlfriend) after becoming enamored with cycle touring, and travels through North and South America in search of the perfect meal.
[1] https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/
[2] The Hungry Cyclist, https://www.amazon.com/Hungry-Cyclist-Tom-Kevill-Davies/dp/0...
The site allows long distance cyclists to write journals of their trips while they are on tour, some of which had me binge-read them for entire weekends.
Also, the site carries a lovely craigslist vibe :)
Focussing on the match-made-in-heaven which are cycling & food, [2] chronicles the experiences of a bloke in his mid-20s, who ditches his job at an ad agency (as well as his girlfriend) after becoming enamored with cycle touring, and travels through North and South America in search of the perfect meal.
[1] https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/
[2] The Hungry Cyclist, https://www.amazon.com/Hungry-Cyclist-Tom-Kevill-Davies/dp/0...
Also strongly recommend https://mrpumpy.net/
during middle and highschool i did a 6 week trip from germany to the center of france and then back through switzerland. the most memorable day was where i spent half a day pushing my bike up a mountain, and then go down the other side in less than half an hour. another trip was two weeks around the southern half of denmark, and another two weeks all over luxemburg. the craziest trip was going from austria to the netherlands. the goal was to be in the netherlands for the summer, so i took my bike to truck-stops and looked for trucks that might have space for my bike and asked to hitch-hike. that got me a mix of hitchhiking and biking on scenic hiking paths. i switched from biking to trains when i discovered how much cheaper the trains in eastern europe were.
before doing these solo-trips i was part of a youthgroup that did most of their trips on bikes. we were all middle-school kids, and in the evening we would split into groups of three and knock on doors seeking a place to sleep.
another memorable trip was cycling through new jersey, wearing a cycling jersey depicting a cow on a bike. that was a trip with several dozen people, organized by the bike commissioner (or something like that) of washington D.C.
now with family, i'd love to get back on a bike again and take my kids on new adventures.
before doing these solo-trips i was part of a youthgroup that did most of their trips on bikes. we were all middle-school kids, and in the evening we would split into groups of three and knock on doors seeking a place to sleep.
another memorable trip was cycling through new jersey, wearing a cycling jersey depicting a cow on a bike. that was a trip with several dozen people, organized by the bike commissioner (or something like that) of washington D.C.
now with family, i'd love to get back on a bike again and take my kids on new adventures.
I can recommend a great bicycle tour planner, https://cycle.travel/
The map style is optimised for bicycle tours, it can automatically split the journey into day-sized chunks, find potential accommodation around overnight stops and much more. It also includes a blog engine, so you can blog about every part of your trip directly at the website.
During corona time I suddenly found myself with a bicycle caravan project. It's like a big cart - one person bed size - for behind my bicycle. I recently finished this thing and am now planning to go for a test ride soon.
https://theredpanther.org
https://theredpanther.org
Humans and our ancient immune system are not evolved for living in the hives we call cities. Cycling (and the constraints of this transportation mode)will lead to a healthier, more robust, more productive civilization if we design for it. Cycling first should be our design directive.
This indeed. I have crossed the Pyrenees twice and the Alps from north to south by bike. We chose the fast and light options, riding road bikes and staying in hotels, but still the feeling of crossing a large map entirely under one's own steam is gratifying and addictive.
I've had a couple of bikes stolen in my lifetime. One thing that would prevent me from enjoying the trip as much is a fear of having my bike and all my gear stolen.
What do you do with your bike and gear if you want to stop and so some sightseeing?
What do you do with your bike and gear if you want to stop and so some sightseeing?
What kind of sightseeing do you mean? When stopped in a city, we left our bikes in the hotel so we could walk around. But when on the road, it’s a lot of leaning bikes against a building while you go in to get food or whatever. Sometimes, we’d have somebody stay with the bikes while the others went inside. Sometimes, we’d lock up and sometimes we’d get lazy and hope for the best. But I wasn’t riding in a high-theft area.
When eating lunch, I look for a place with big windows and then I put my bike where I can see it from the inside. Also, attach your helmet with the strap through the front wheel and the fork.
If I wanted to go on a hike, I would start the hike with the bike and then maybe 500' in I would veer off about the same distance and stash it out of sight.
If I was in a city that had no organized storage I'd just stop at a bike shop and ask if I could stash it there for a few hours. If you were for real with panniers and stuff I can't imagine them saying no.
If I wanted to go on a hike, I would start the hike with the bike and then maybe 500' in I would veer off about the same distance and stash it out of sight.
If I was in a city that had no organized storage I'd just stop at a bike shop and ask if I could stash it there for a few hours. If you were for real with panniers and stuff I can't imagine them saying no.
I strongly recommend a recumbent tricycle for solo touring. I’ve done multi-week cycling trips with my Greenspeed GT3 twice in America and once in New Zealand and almost once in Australia.
Recumbent trikes are much more convenient for these purposes.
I’ve gone from basically not having done any exercise at all for several months to riding ~100km per day, ending up only weary in the legs at the end of each day, not in pain in at least back and crotch as you certainly would be on an upright bike.
The inherent stability of a three wheel base means you can load quite heavily without it being in the slightest bit troublesome—you’ll go slower, but won’t have any balance issue. In each of my trips, it hasn’t been just a cycling tour, but I’ve had other gear with me too, as it has become my habit if I’m going to another country for any sort of work or conference to take my trike with me and explore the place thus. My typical load is well in excess of 20kg—panniers on a rear wheel rack, then pile other stuff on top and strap it all down with bungee cords. I have a fairly heavy tarp that I use to wrap the trike up for air travel (it folds in half), and then it serves as a ground sheet for camping.
I am firmly convinced that trikes are considerably safer, too; as well as the inherent stability, there’s also visibility, your visibility: you behold the world in front of you readily without needing to crane your neck, and, since you can’t really look over your shoulder due to the posture, you have a mirror that is mounted in such a way that it works well (which isn’t my experience of mirrors on bicycles), so that you can easily keep an eye on what’s coming up, and interact usefully with traffic rather than being blind.
The only downsides I’ve really observed are: (a) being lower, you generally can’t see well over guard rails at scenic points on bridges and ocean roads; (b) off-road cycling trails are probably not well-adapted to you (not that this quite stopped me from taking things like the Timber Trail and the Remutaka Trail in NZ last year, though the GT3 specifically is very poorly suited for both with its extremely low clearance on its rear derailleur); and (c) three tracks instead of one generally leads to a rougher ride on very-low-quality surfaces, and more potential for debris punctures (in 2014, on my first cycling tour, I discovered that California in autumn has a particularly virulent type of thorn endemic, and that the slick tyres that the trike came with are eminently unsuitable—I averaged more than one flat per day, where on subsequent trips with Schwalbe Marathon Plus I’ve never had one).
Recumbent trikes are much more convenient for these purposes.
I’ve gone from basically not having done any exercise at all for several months to riding ~100km per day, ending up only weary in the legs at the end of each day, not in pain in at least back and crotch as you certainly would be on an upright bike.
The inherent stability of a three wheel base means you can load quite heavily without it being in the slightest bit troublesome—you’ll go slower, but won’t have any balance issue. In each of my trips, it hasn’t been just a cycling tour, but I’ve had other gear with me too, as it has become my habit if I’m going to another country for any sort of work or conference to take my trike with me and explore the place thus. My typical load is well in excess of 20kg—panniers on a rear wheel rack, then pile other stuff on top and strap it all down with bungee cords. I have a fairly heavy tarp that I use to wrap the trike up for air travel (it folds in half), and then it serves as a ground sheet for camping.
I am firmly convinced that trikes are considerably safer, too; as well as the inherent stability, there’s also visibility, your visibility: you behold the world in front of you readily without needing to crane your neck, and, since you can’t really look over your shoulder due to the posture, you have a mirror that is mounted in such a way that it works well (which isn’t my experience of mirrors on bicycles), so that you can easily keep an eye on what’s coming up, and interact usefully with traffic rather than being blind.
The only downsides I’ve really observed are: (a) being lower, you generally can’t see well over guard rails at scenic points on bridges and ocean roads; (b) off-road cycling trails are probably not well-adapted to you (not that this quite stopped me from taking things like the Timber Trail and the Remutaka Trail in NZ last year, though the GT3 specifically is very poorly suited for both with its extremely low clearance on its rear derailleur); and (c) three tracks instead of one generally leads to a rougher ride on very-low-quality surfaces, and more potential for debris punctures (in 2014, on my first cycling tour, I discovered that California in autumn has a particularly virulent type of thorn endemic, and that the slick tyres that the trike came with are eminently unsuitable—I averaged more than one flat per day, where on subsequent trips with Schwalbe Marathon Plus I’ve never had one).
Beware of what is apparently called 'leg suck' when riding a recumbent!
http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t...
I've had just that and trust me you don't want it happening to you (7 hour operation, fairly massive steel parts in my right leg+associated other hardware).
http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t...
I've had just that and trust me you don't want it happening to you (7 hour operation, fairly massive steel parts in my right leg+associated other hardware).
Yeah, I wouldn’t want to ride without clip-in pedals (which have all the advantages they have on upright bicycles, and lack the disadvantage of needing to unclip when stopping).
Thanks for sharing this! I'm really interested in getting a recumbent because of my back injury (I talk about this in this thread) and I think I'll start exploring all the options. The only two things that are holding me back are a) these types of bikes are more expensive than regular ones, multiple times b) embracing that I can't probably ride a regular bike anymore, it's a mental thing, and it's a mix of grief and fear how will people perceive me.
I’m not entirely sure why there’s so definite a link between being unable to ride a bicycle and riding a recumbent tricycle, though I know it to be so from talking to local manufacturers. For me, I’m perfectly able-bodied, I just wanted to ride a recumbent tricycle because it seemed to me that they would be generally better (for comfort, enjoyment and safety), and I have indeed found it so.
Fear not perception: as a generalisation, people love recumbent tricycles and their riders; my experience is that you will get an overwhelmingly positive reaction. I have observed negative reactions from drivers on a very few occasions (at a rate similar to an upright bicycle, I think), but overtly positive reactions from drivers very regularly, which is not common on an upright bicycle. As for pedestrians, well, if you’re open to it people will talk to you about your vehicle very, very regularly, positively and curiously.
Fear not perception: as a generalisation, people love recumbent tricycles and their riders; my experience is that you will get an overwhelmingly positive reaction. I have observed negative reactions from drivers on a very few occasions (at a rate similar to an upright bicycle, I think), but overtly positive reactions from drivers very regularly, which is not common on an upright bicycle. As for pedestrians, well, if you’re open to it people will talk to you about your vehicle very, very regularly, positively and curiously.
I have cycle-toured in Australia, France, Yunnan (a lot), Laos, Romania, Taiwan, and Thailand on many bikes, but always on fat-tires with a steel frame, and personally most enjoy discovering new places, being away from people in nature, and conquering mountains. Nearly every day was fun but the history, scenery and food in Yunnan are amazing, and conquering Transfăgărășan[0] (Romania) from the north was memorable. You don't have to camp. I have only once cycle-camped for two nights in a remote region of Yunnan, usually I prefer to stay in small town hotels (save weight, less baggage). Key advice for new cycle-tourists: break your bike in first with local trips to ensure everything is hunky-dory mechanically, bring spare tubes (patching is too tedious unless you are going super far), minimizing bike weight is less important than having good gearing, buy quality bags (cheap ones will break and are not waterproof), and disc breaks are a must (V-brakes will wear in no time and provide insufficient stopping torque for heavily loaded bikes). Also, it's not a competition: you don't have to spend all day every day on the bike. I prefer to do 3-5 hours starting early in the morning, check in somewhere, wash cycle clothing, eat and explore an area.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transf%C4%83g%C4%83r%C4%83%C8%...
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transf%C4%83g%C4%83r%C4%83%C8%...
How do you handle the short term planning for such trips? Are you calling and booking hotels ahead of time each day or do you just show up in a town at whatever time and figure it out last minute?
It depends. On or off the bike my philosophy for travel is generally to never pre-book anything unless flying internationally or going to some major city where walking around to find a hotel is too tedious/time consuming/expensive (on a "waste half a room-night" basis). This is less of a valid exception when cycle touring, since it is so easy to cover ground on a bike, but cycling around dense Asian cities is no fun like Europe. Usually, out of a city, it's always a combination of destination research and satellite view / Google Earth. I look for small roads, vague estimates of the topography, and major sites of interest en-route. Things frequently worth stopping for by bike that car people miss are numerous: bridges, views, caves, villages, botanic gardens, waterfalls, beaches, festivals, weddings, funerals, markets, landslides, bullfights, wild animals, botany, insects, roadside vendors, food, historic plaques, locals, kids, etc. To be really relaxed and up for anything you don't want to fix your timing, so forward planning is a no-no. Research is completed when you have a general idea of topography and a general idea of what to deviate, look or stop for en-route, and a couple of towns that might be viable for end-of-stage.
I've travelled ("overlanding") the panamerican highway for roughly 2 1/2 years and I've always admired the people doing this on a bicycle.
Since I'm back I've done much more bike touring than before and I do enjoy it a lot.
The best thing about bike travelling is that speed, you really do get a sense of the landscape and the changing of it.
On the other hand, a quick detour up to a mountain that you saw from the coast is not an easy feat and you will have to skip a lot of things that are not on your route.
Some day i am going to try this route (1000k through the entire Transilvania for hiking or bicycle, no cars). Maybe some of you would find it interesting :)
https://www.viatransilvanica.com/traseu
https://www.viatransilvanica.com/ghid
https://www.viatransilvanica.com/traseu
https://www.viatransilvanica.com/ghid
Sounds amazing, but when do you have time for that once you're working full time? Do employers usually offer unpaid time off?
since it doesn't require a lot of money you simply quit your job if you want to do that for an extend period or take unpaid leave if you can arrange something w/ your employeer.
Even better on a tall bike
https://youtu.be/WcdA4D9IyLM
https://youtu.be/WcdA4D9IyLM
Velomobiles are expensive. They are recumbent bicycles or tricycles with a fairing (a hard shell) that decreases drag and protects the rider from wind, rain, snow, etc.
Last I checked they were around $5,000 to $10,000 (five thousand US dollars to ten thousand US dollars) but they look kind of great for touring to me. You can find myriad velomobile videos on YouTube.
Flags, pool noodles (yeah, pool noodles), and of course LEDs can make them highly visible.
For commuting the "Rotovelo" looks like it might be a good choice because it seems like it can easily withstand bumps, bangs, and scrapes. See...
Rotovelo Ice Hockey Match! https://youtu.be/F_wXHFab5XU?t=108
Last I checked they were around $5,000 to $10,000 (five thousand US dollars to ten thousand US dollars) but they look kind of great for touring to me. You can find myriad velomobile videos on YouTube.
Flags, pool noodles (yeah, pool noodles), and of course LEDs can make them highly visible.
For commuting the "Rotovelo" looks like it might be a good choice because it seems like it can easily withstand bumps, bangs, and scrapes. See...
Rotovelo Ice Hockey Match! https://youtu.be/F_wXHFab5XU?t=108
It’s not hard to cover 50 miles a day, or 300 miles in a week, which means you can see a lot. Yet stop in a second, anywhere.
Nothing against bicycle touring, but while a bicycle may force slower travel, a bicycle is not necessary for it.
A person can road trip in their car, truck, or van [1] at a similar pace. The daily cost of gasoline will be fairly low...less than about $20 per day even for a motorhome driving California.
How a person travels is more a matter of time resources. At 300 miles a week, it will take ten weeks to go from coast to coast. Few people have that kind of free time.
And if you have ten weeks for travel, you will almost certainly have a life changing experience irrespective of travel mode.
[1] or upon a motorcycle, moped, or scooter.
Nothing against bicycle touring, but while a bicycle may force slower travel, a bicycle is not necessary for it.
A person can road trip in their car, truck, or van [1] at a similar pace. The daily cost of gasoline will be fairly low...less than about $20 per day even for a motorhome driving California.
How a person travels is more a matter of time resources. At 300 miles a week, it will take ten weeks to go from coast to coast. Few people have that kind of free time.
And if you have ten weeks for travel, you will almost certainly have a life changing experience irrespective of travel mode.
[1] or upon a motorcycle, moped, or scooter.
> A person can road trip in their car, truck, or van
> or upon a motorcycle, moped, or scooter.
Not quite the same thing; you're isolated from your environment by the noise and the cabin or the helmet. You won't hear the birdsong, the silence, the wind rustling in the trees. Much of the depth of the experience is in the total engagement with your environment from moment to moment.
> Few people have that kind of free time.
...if they're selling their labour in exchange for money. Do you need to spend quite as much as you do every fortnight? If you're not living from paycheck to paycheck, spend a couple of years saving and then take time off to do a big trip.
I did it during 2017; the mortgage payments continued and I lived on the rest. I had money left over at the end.
> or upon a motorcycle, moped, or scooter.
Not quite the same thing; you're isolated from your environment by the noise and the cabin or the helmet. You won't hear the birdsong, the silence, the wind rustling in the trees. Much of the depth of the experience is in the total engagement with your environment from moment to moment.
> Few people have that kind of free time.
...if they're selling their labour in exchange for money. Do you need to spend quite as much as you do every fortnight? If you're not living from paycheck to paycheck, spend a couple of years saving and then take time off to do a big trip.
I did it during 2017; the mortgage payments continued and I lived on the rest. I had money left over at the end.
Everyone can find moral superiority in their personal choices without much effort.
Finding morality in someone else’s orthogonal choices is the hard work.
For me, the birdsong and the wind are there but for stopping beside the road for the sake of stopping.
In those moments I am just there not even riding a bicycle.
Finding morality in someone else’s orthogonal choices is the hard work.
For me, the birdsong and the wind are there but for stopping beside the road for the sake of stopping.
In those moments I am just there not even riding a bicycle.
You can take a helicopter to the top of a mountain in 1/20th the time, step out and see the same view, but is it really a comparable experience to having hiked it?
Hiking is a different experience. For you the differences might make it a better one.
For someone else, the logistics of a hike might suck all the joy away.
For others hiking may become a shopping exercise…gear, guides, supplies, permits and such.
For still others, why hike up a mountain when you could go surfing?
Some people don’t want the burden of owning and maintaining a bicycle touring rig. They find more value elsewhere.
YMMV.
For someone else, the logistics of a hike might suck all the joy away.
For others hiking may become a shopping exercise…gear, guides, supplies, permits and such.
For still others, why hike up a mountain when you could go surfing?
Some people don’t want the burden of owning and maintaining a bicycle touring rig. They find more value elsewhere.
YMMV.
So you failed in "Finding morality in someone else’s orthogonal choices is the hard work." by posting that van or car might be better?
I don’t think what how I travel is morally superior.
I know it is better for me.
Because the alternative to how I travel is not a bicycle. The alternative is more or less not traveling to the places I travel.
And not traveling with a typewriter, six cameras, and a 61 key Yamaha.
I know it is better for me.
Because the alternative to how I travel is not a bicycle. The alternative is more or less not traveling to the places I travel.
And not traveling with a typewriter, six cameras, and a 61 key Yamaha.
That is a good point, and one I struggle to understand why more people don’t.
However! The pace can be the same by day or week. But the average speed while moving is different. One not necessarily better than the other.
Travelling by car will eg allow more time sightseeing, walking around a city at lunch. While travelling by bike is more like you get to see a little bit of lots of things. And you can stop wherever and lift the bike off the road if necessary.
For some trips, a car is better, for other, a bike. For other still, hiking or taking a train or a plane. I’ve done all five, and all have their pros and cons.
However! The pace can be the same by day or week. But the average speed while moving is different. One not necessarily better than the other.
Travelling by car will eg allow more time sightseeing, walking around a city at lunch. While travelling by bike is more like you get to see a little bit of lots of things. And you can stop wherever and lift the bike off the road if necessary.
For some trips, a car is better, for other, a bike. For other still, hiking or taking a train or a plane. I’ve done all five, and all have their pros and cons.
Check out the tour logs on https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/
I might be embarking on a similar trip next year—same route. I'm not familiar with the American climate; What would be the ideal time of year to do such a journey? February/March to July/August?
I did the northern route, NH to OR, July-Sept. It was getting a bit chilly towards the end, but the scary weather is storms you hit in the midwest in the open plains. Those tend to be worst in the late summer, I think. It's pretty terrifying on a bike in the middle of nowhere, with plains as far as the eye can see, when the horizon ahead turns black and you just watch the lightning bear down on you. People out there are really nice, though, and would often pull over and offer shelter.
I rode from CA to NYC and wrote a book about it. The writing was much harder than the riding! If anyone wants to read it lmk how to contact you and I’ll send it.
Ye gods an electrified bike with a 50-75 mile range, assist/etc would make this so much more accessible for people: you can tow more, get up hills, fight headwinds like a pro cyclist would. And you can recharge over lunch.
You could probably go 100 miles a day with the energy of a 20-30 mile ride, and hold 20mph if you needed to regardless of conditions. And carry all the serious rain gear too.
And the bikes are tougher, you can carry spares and tools...
The only issue is the asshole drivers of America, especially the roll coal pickup trucks. And it is tough, because rural America is conservative and full of very angry pickup truck drivers.
You could probably go 100 miles a day with the energy of a 20-30 mile ride, and hold 20mph if you needed to regardless of conditions. And carry all the serious rain gear too.
And the bikes are tougher, you can carry spares and tools...
The only issue is the asshole drivers of America, especially the roll coal pickup trucks. And it is tough, because rural America is conservative and full of very angry pickup truck drivers.
I built just that (or rather, I built the battery and figured out how to hook it up safely to the existing system):
https://jacquesmattheij.com/long-range-ebike/
It does a shade under 100 miles on one charge.
https://jacquesmattheij.com/long-range-ebike/
It does a shade under 100 miles on one charge.
Where one could find the equivalente of these great 8 bike trips, but in Europe, instead of US?
None of these is exclusively on non car routes but a couple come close https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2018/jul/05/10-great-long...
maybe you'll have no choice
https://youtu.be/Slszva6kk90
https://youtu.be/Slszva6kk90
Coworkers that are cyclists often tell me they are always afraid on the road because the car drivers don't keep the proper distance.
I myself have experienced some close calls and I only ride a few times a year.
I myself have experienced some close calls and I only ride a few times a year.
This is so bizarre to me. I just recently cycled through Canada and the US and everywhere I went people (including sport/fitness cyclists) told me to watch out because cyclists get killed all the time... But in my thousands of miles of touring, the only time I felt a little worried about cars was in Louisiana where some of the roads are very narrow and there are railings along the side so there is nowhere to escape to if an inconsiderate driver comes too close. Took nerves of steel when cars zoomed past with just an inch or two of space. But the rest of the time I just cheerfully pedaled along the shoulder with my hi-vis vest on, only occasionally getting yelled at and coal-rolled by jackasses in pickup trucks. Most of the time drivers gave me plenty of space.
What was much, much more terrifying to me than cars was dogs. In certain parts of the country, people's dogs would charge out of the yard and chase me down the road for a half mile, barking and snapping all the way. I even got bitten once or twice. I'd definitely rate pet dogs as a bigger hazard than cars, or at least a scarier one. More dangerous than bears and coyotes too, in my experience.
My advice for cars is to wear hi-vis gear, ride in the shoulder whenever there is one, confidently take up a decent slice of the road when there isn't, keep an eye on your rear view mirror, pull over to let very wide trucks pass, and never ride main roads at night or in poor conditions.
What was much, much more terrifying to me than cars was dogs. In certain parts of the country, people's dogs would charge out of the yard and chase me down the road for a half mile, barking and snapping all the way. I even got bitten once or twice. I'd definitely rate pet dogs as a bigger hazard than cars, or at least a scarier one. More dangerous than bears and coyotes too, in my experience.
My advice for cars is to wear hi-vis gear, ride in the shoulder whenever there is one, confidently take up a decent slice of the road when there isn't, keep an eye on your rear view mirror, pull over to let very wide trucks pass, and never ride main roads at night or in poor conditions.
I have the old flag from my bike trailer we used when the kids were small that I mount sideways on the rear rack, sticking towards traffic. It hangs out about a foot past me and encourages traffic to give me some space.
The thing is, statistics is against you on this. You only need 1 instance of careless driver, 1 aggressive dog or clueless wild animal to have a relative high speed crash. In that case, your skills and experience will not matter.
Its all nice in echo chambers with heavy survivorship bias where everybody claims how they are fine (but had close calls here and there, often not even realizing them), but its far from reality. If you want some counter-balance (which most folks in these echo chambers really don't want), talk to some ER folks, or orthopedics.
Its all nice in echo chambers with heavy survivorship bias where everybody claims how they are fine (but had close calls here and there, often not even realizing them), but its far from reality. If you want some counter-balance (which most folks in these echo chambers really don't want), talk to some ER folks, or orthopedics.
How is that “counter-balance”? Obviously the medical folks are only going to have talked to people who’ve had accidents, where as the bike forums are filled with people who’ve had accidents, who’ve had close calls, and who’ve had no issues.
For what it’s worth, I’ve got thousands of miles on a touring bike under my belt. I’ve had close calls…but I’ve also had close calls driving, flying, and boating. I’ve had close calls swimming and climbing, too. If the alternative is to hang out in my basement on the computer where it’s ‘safe’ all the time, I’d rather stick to the close calls.
For what it’s worth, I’ve got thousands of miles on a touring bike under my belt. I’ve had close calls…but I’ve also had close calls driving, flying, and boating. I’ve had close calls swimming and climbing, too. If the alternative is to hang out in my basement on the computer where it’s ‘safe’ all the time, I’d rather stick to the close calls.
You don't counter "heavy survivorship bias" as you frame it by swinging to the other end and talking to ER docs about their horror stories; humans don't process information by consuming extreme data points and then internally averaging them into some sort of model. You look at the data in aggregate and end up pretty much where the experienced touring posts here land, which is rare but real risks sprinkled across typically accident-free riding. "statistics is against you on this" is NOT the reality, in terms of likelyhood of accident or severity comparing car travel to bike travel.
Clearly riding a bicycle on roads designed for much heavier, much faster vehicles isn't the safest pursuit in the world. Of course you would be much safer sitting at home. But that's a calculation you make any time you decide to step out the door. The way some people talk about cycling you'd think that merely getting on a bicycle for longer than 10km means instant death. That's obviously not the case, because there are always far more people who have successfully cycled any given stretch of road than ones who have died on it. The question people should ask themselves is if the risk is worth the benefits for them. And, if they have decided yes, then it's certainly more enjoyable to not spend every moment on that road terrified of other vehicles, whose behavior you have very little control over. If you want to do it, just do it.
Highly country dependent though.
Not just that, where you are even in your local area. In the city, it is kind of surprising and kind of not, I have found that you feel safer. Cars seem to know how to navigate around bikes. In the country, that is not true. You have trucks blow by you doing 10 over the limit and they get close to you, really close. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that many do not even see you - these lifted trucks don't have much visibility.
Big semis can even suck you into their wake if you don't prepare for it when they just finish passing you.
Ha! I was all excited reading the comments and thinking that maybe it would be a nice little adventure in my quest to become fitter.
Then i remembered that I live in Mexico and going on a bike ride/camping would be a death sentence due to reckless drivers, robbers/muggers or drug traffickers.
I'll keep doing stationary bike.
Then i remembered that I live in Mexico and going on a bike ride/camping would be a death sentence due to reckless drivers, robbers/muggers or drug traffickers.
I'll keep doing stationary bike.
I decided against cycling into Mexico when I was recently cycling across North America because I was worried about the security situation. I ended up flying to Panama then traveling down to Colombia, where I started touring again. I am not sure about the security situation in Colombia versus Mexico, but the statistics do show that it still has a fairly significant amount of violent crime. Unlike my more free-spirited touring in Canada and the US, I was more careful about where I went. I kept track of the local news every day and avoided towns and areas with political rallies or paramilitary activity. I never camped anywhere, preferring to stay in hospedajes for around us$10 per night. I also bought a cheap (<us$250) bike with only 6 gears that looked similar to the kinds of bike campesinos rode around. And I spent more time on main roads with regular police/military checkpoints instead of taking any interesting back road I liked. The back roads I did take, I checked out on Google Street View beforehand, and leaned a lot on advice from local people. It was perhaps not as picturesque and peaceful as my riding in US/Canada, but it was still worth it for me. I met a few people down there who had greeted cyclists that had cycled all the way down from Canada, including through Mexico, so it's definitely possible to achieve, although different areas need different precautions. Perhaps it is wiser to do your first tour in a "safe" place so you get more comfortable with the process.
Bold trip nonetheless! If you have some time to write up this experience and how you planned in more detail, I would definitely appreciate reading it and I am sure others would too. I am hoping to do some more travel like this in South and Central America and would be great to hear some first hand experience.
For me the most important part of preparing for cycling in Latin America was learning conversational Spanish. I spent about 2 months studying in Panama to get a basic handle of the language, just going to school in the mornings and hanging out in local spaces in the afternoons where I could hear colloquial usage. Even though it's possible to get by traveling in other countries by miming your requests and using translation apps, it is much easier to reassure locals that you really are looking for a practical cycle route and not some kind of touristic detour if you can speak enough of the language they figure you're not going to collapse in a heap as soon as you can't find a McDonalds.
In Panama I just rented bikes and did day trips. In Colombia I started doing that, then bought a bike once I realized the country was a better fit for how I wanted to travel. It seemed like there was a stronger bike culture there. By which I mean, there were relatively more utility cyclists - not sport/fitness cyclists, but people with baskets on the back hauling fish or produce from their angling spot or farm to the market. Aside from bicycles, a lot of locals also rode scooters or light motorcycles - this made me feel more confident on the roads because the ubiquitous trucks and buses were more used to sharing the road with smaller and slower vehicles.
The big difference I found touring in Colombia versus the US and Canada is that towns with affordable accommodation and other services were generally much closer together. It wasn't uncommon for me in parts of Canada to have 100km between towns, without even a guarantee to find a grocery store much less a camp site or motel in the next place. Especially in the prairies it was necessary to carry a LOT of water, plus plenty of food like oats, nuts, tortillas and so on. In Colombia there are lots of small towns of under 20,000 people and they all have hospedajes (kind of like a European pension, or very low budget B&B-without-the-breakfast), bakeries and convenience stores. I barely even needed a food bag - every day I could get fresh pastries in the morning.
Because the towns were close together, I took it easy and sometimes rode just 40km or 60km a day, which was well worth it because the temperature in some areas was around 36C - the kind of heat above which you really start feeling heat stroke after 2-3 hours on unshaded roads. To deal with the heat, I decided to pull over everywhere there was a roadside stall selling drinks. Usually it's fruit juice (watermelon is best), sometimes a lemonade made with panela, occasionally chicha. I figured anything with water and sugar was worth stopping for.
To navigate I just used the standard combination of OsmAnd~ (OpenStreetMap) and BRouter tool for offline routing. But it's important to double-check on Google Street View when you have internet, because often the helpful bike routing tools avoid the highway, which actually in Colombia is what you don't always want to do, because the "highway" is sometimes just a reasonably quiet two-lane country road. On the other hand, some of the back roads look like well-maintained gravel, but due to heavy rain they can turn into very deep mud. I got stuck in one or two spots that looked okay on Google Street View but were a real adventure on the day - not even a car could make it through, horses and dirtbikes only. But the benefit of being on a bike is you could easily head down a back way and then cross the river on a small sampan designed for foot traffic, so sometimes taking those back roads paid off for the fun aspect. They were definitely the exception rather than the rule, though - most times I figured better safe than sorry and tried to stick to main roads, especially when a back road would require more than 50km (my theoretical limit for being able to walk/hike back out in case I had to abandon my bike).
One thing I didn't do in Colombia was go deep into the Andes. The climbs are just ridiculous. Like 2000m or more. Personally I don't enjoy hill climbing, and I don't like cold temperatures, so when I am touring on bike I do everything I can to stick to the lowland and plains. I think going the hills would be a very different experience and might need different preparation. Although, I think the hills are also far more popular routes both for bike tourers and for sport/fitness cyclists, so there would probably be much better support. Down in the valleys you're going to find yourself cycling with campesinos and trying to get stuff fixed at a moped shop instead of a bicycle shop, but that was fine by me.
I think the best way to go if you have the time is just head over to the country you're thinking of traveling in with some panniers rolled up in a duffel, rent a bike once or twice to see if it feels good, then buy a cheap bike when you're there. That way you haven't invested too much in some kind of "dream journey" that doesn't turn out to be what you expected. But perhaps that's just my way of travel, not for everyone.
In Panama I just rented bikes and did day trips. In Colombia I started doing that, then bought a bike once I realized the country was a better fit for how I wanted to travel. It seemed like there was a stronger bike culture there. By which I mean, there were relatively more utility cyclists - not sport/fitness cyclists, but people with baskets on the back hauling fish or produce from their angling spot or farm to the market. Aside from bicycles, a lot of locals also rode scooters or light motorcycles - this made me feel more confident on the roads because the ubiquitous trucks and buses were more used to sharing the road with smaller and slower vehicles.
The big difference I found touring in Colombia versus the US and Canada is that towns with affordable accommodation and other services were generally much closer together. It wasn't uncommon for me in parts of Canada to have 100km between towns, without even a guarantee to find a grocery store much less a camp site or motel in the next place. Especially in the prairies it was necessary to carry a LOT of water, plus plenty of food like oats, nuts, tortillas and so on. In Colombia there are lots of small towns of under 20,000 people and they all have hospedajes (kind of like a European pension, or very low budget B&B-without-the-breakfast), bakeries and convenience stores. I barely even needed a food bag - every day I could get fresh pastries in the morning.
Because the towns were close together, I took it easy and sometimes rode just 40km or 60km a day, which was well worth it because the temperature in some areas was around 36C - the kind of heat above which you really start feeling heat stroke after 2-3 hours on unshaded roads. To deal with the heat, I decided to pull over everywhere there was a roadside stall selling drinks. Usually it's fruit juice (watermelon is best), sometimes a lemonade made with panela, occasionally chicha. I figured anything with water and sugar was worth stopping for.
To navigate I just used the standard combination of OsmAnd~ (OpenStreetMap) and BRouter tool for offline routing. But it's important to double-check on Google Street View when you have internet, because often the helpful bike routing tools avoid the highway, which actually in Colombia is what you don't always want to do, because the "highway" is sometimes just a reasonably quiet two-lane country road. On the other hand, some of the back roads look like well-maintained gravel, but due to heavy rain they can turn into very deep mud. I got stuck in one or two spots that looked okay on Google Street View but were a real adventure on the day - not even a car could make it through, horses and dirtbikes only. But the benefit of being on a bike is you could easily head down a back way and then cross the river on a small sampan designed for foot traffic, so sometimes taking those back roads paid off for the fun aspect. They were definitely the exception rather than the rule, though - most times I figured better safe than sorry and tried to stick to main roads, especially when a back road would require more than 50km (my theoretical limit for being able to walk/hike back out in case I had to abandon my bike).
One thing I didn't do in Colombia was go deep into the Andes. The climbs are just ridiculous. Like 2000m or more. Personally I don't enjoy hill climbing, and I don't like cold temperatures, so when I am touring on bike I do everything I can to stick to the lowland and plains. I think going the hills would be a very different experience and might need different preparation. Although, I think the hills are also far more popular routes both for bike tourers and for sport/fitness cyclists, so there would probably be much better support. Down in the valleys you're going to find yourself cycling with campesinos and trying to get stuff fixed at a moped shop instead of a bicycle shop, but that was fine by me.
I think the best way to go if you have the time is just head over to the country you're thinking of traveling in with some panniers rolled up in a duffel, rent a bike once or twice to see if it feels good, then buy a cheap bike when you're there. That way you haven't invested too much in some kind of "dream journey" that doesn't turn out to be what you expected. But perhaps that's just my way of travel, not for everyone.
Awesome thanks a ton for the details, very helpful. I certainly need to get a fair bit better at Spanish before I embark on anything similar. And having taken a few fairly short hikes in Colombia in the heat I can definitely see heat stroke being a concern. Thanks again!
Great write up! I've done some walking there and really recognize the scenery description. My favorite drink: iced pineapple juice.
I don’t know the statistics but there are people posting on Reddit’s /r/bicycletouring about going to or through Mexico with pictures of their trip, and people respond with similar fears to what you listed (which is my immediate thought as well.)
If you only ever travelled long distances by highway/rail/air it could be hard to appreciate how much richer the world feels travelling by bicycle. Instead of a dreary bubble between generic transportation hubs you are generally travelling along the old routes that connect all the places where life has been for millennia, the amount of history (in Europe at least), scenery and humanity you stumble across just in the course of a typical day covering maybe 50 miles is huge.
The typical question people ask is "how long did it take?" but the experience itself is more fulfilling, this is very much not what it's about (and you can speed up with trains etc. if you really need to get somewhere). It's one of the only ways I manage to properly disconnect from the ongoing background stress weight of running a startup. I'll eat 5 meals a day, everything tastes amazing and come back healthier and lighter (in more ways than one). I'll be living cheap (though the large amount of food can start to add up) and free under my own power and direction and carrying everything I need to stay so along with me. I'll be meeting people along the way and connecting with their humanity and kindness in a way that just doesn't seem to happen quite the same when you aren't travelling by bicycle.
It may not be for everyone but I want to live in a world where that experience feels accessible to as many as possible.